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Originally Posted by SteveS
Good stuff, U. The holding pattern is brutal, so kudos to you for fighting through it.

Thanks Steve.

To be clear, I think I've gone off the DB path a little bit. I'm not holding because it is the best thing I can do for my MR. I think it's the best thing I can do for my upcoming D. Engaging with my W on any emotional level right now is likely to cause more pain.

It's not that I've given up completely. But I do think any R would be years down the road at this point. One thing I've learned recently is how far gone my W really was. This stuff was festering for years. And I'm not sure I could have prevented it -- I may not have known she was thinking about D, but I did know things were not working and I tried in my own clumsy way to work on the MR. I can live with the fact I gave it an honest effort.

I'm still working on getting over feeling angry about her not wanting to work things the same way I did. But I do understand.

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Hey all -

I think itís probably time for me to move off this board and over to Surviving the Big D. Iíll have an update the next few days but my situation has transitioned that way and I think posting on this board is not as appropriate. Will link from here when I set up a new thread, hope some of you can stop by! Iíll pop in here from time to time also.

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Just curious have either of you filed?

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Quote
I can live with the fact I gave it an honest effort.


My XW decided to have an affair 11 years ago and I tried to stick with it until the last BD. I agree in my own clumsy way I also tried to work on the MR but it takes two. I don't think it was ever about us. My D13 said to me point blank "if I had one wish I wouldn't undo what was done because she would have just found another way and another time to leave."

You gave it an amazing effort and in the process became a better you. You never know what the future will hold.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
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Originally Posted by kas99
Just curious have either of you filed?

No we haven't. We are starting discussing details of finances and custody this week.

Originally Posted by rooskers
My D13 said to me point blank "if I had one wish I wouldn't undo what was done because she would have just found another way and another time to leave."

You gave it an amazing effort and in the process became a better you. You never know what the future will hold.

You touched on something that I really didn't understand until recently. My WAW's mindset is *so far* from what I thought was going on. I'm more confused than ever. I'll never understand it. But I will also learn to accept that there wasn't much I could do. I don't think handling limbo any differently would have resulted in a different MR outcome. I am more confused tonight about what's happened than I ever have been. It's hard to give up on those future dreams, and the comfort of that life we had, but now is the time for me to own my life and walk tall. It's scary, but I've been tackling those challenges so far and each little success makes me feel stronger.

The future may hold new relationships. I don't know. I can imagine it's going to be hard for me to dive in again, to trust that I won't bring my old baggage with me, to trust that the other person will be open and honest and communicate when things are not going well. From my current standpoint, relationships look like a burden. I see now how relationships need constant attention and care, and for now I need to put that energy into my relationship with my kids, co-parenting with my W, and my self-improvement. I need some time alone to figure out what I really want moving forward. I spent 15 years with my W, and 5 years with an XGF before that. I haven't been alone for half my life. I'm not used to defining the path of my life.Like anything it probably just will take some time to settle out. Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Originally Posted by unchien
I'm more confused than ever. I'll never understand it. But I will also learn to accept that there wasn't much I could do. I don't think handling limbo any differently would have resulted in a different MR outcome. I am more confused tonight about what's happened than I ever have been.

Very much relate to this, U. I was in your position back in April/May. W was running out the door and I was stumped. Then something happened to change her mind again. There is still no R, and no desire for one, but I will say everything has calmed way down, and there has been a slight improvement in communication. Not to give you false hope or give you expectations, but just to let you know feelings change, nothing is permanent, and this, too, shall pass.

Originally Posted by unchien
I can imagine it's going to be hard for me to dive in again, to trust that I won't bring my old baggage with me, to trust that the other person will be open and honest and communicate when things are not going well. From my current standpoint, relationships look like a burden. I see now how relationships need constant attention and care, and for now I need to put that energy into my relationship with my kids, co-parenting with my W, and my self-improvement. I need some time alone to figure out what I really want moving forward.


I relate to this very much. I don't feel like trusting anyone right now. I don't think I can. And I think that's ok - that's all part of it.

How do you look at it, U? I thought about what you wrote and here is what I came up with:

If I cannot work on the R I wanted to work on, then I don't want to be in any R. I have a lot of things I still want to do. Before her crisis/whatever, W understood and encouraged me to do those things. It was hard enough finding someone who "got me" before our R, that's why I lived alone for 8 yrs.

Right now, I have a very hard time believing I could find someone else who would understand the way I am and why I do the things I like to do. And TBH I don't have the energy or time to explain these things again or to compromise on those things with anyone else. It is very sad, and it will be very different without W involved, but there is no reason I cannot still do what I want to do.

Good on you for getting stronger, U. Hope you stick around for a bit.

Take care of yourself, buddy smile

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Originally Posted by IronWill

Very much relate to this, U. I was in your position back in April/May. W was running out the door and I was stumped. Then something happened to change her mind again. There is still no R, and no desire for one, but I will say everything has calmed way down, and there has been a slight improvement in communication. Not to give you false hope or give you expectations, but just to let you know feelings change, nothing is permanent, and this, too, shall pass.

Thanks IW. I notice that my W catches herself before getting emotional talking about custody or money. I can see this is difficult for her, but she is trying. Does this mean she cares about me? Or is she doing this because she knows if we can't be amicable we will have to resort to using L's? I don't know... it's an interesting observation, and I see no particular meaning in it.

Originally Posted by IronWill

I relate to this very much. I don't feel like trusting anyone right now. I don't think I can. And I think that's ok - that's all part of it.

How do you look at it, U? I thought about what you wrote and here is what I came up with:

If I cannot work on the R I wanted to work on, then I don't want to be in any R. I have a lot of things I still want to do. Before her crisis/whatever, W understood and encouraged me to do those things. It was hard enough finding someone who "got me" before our R, that's why I lived alone for 8 yrs.

Right now, I have a very hard time believing I could find someone else who would understand the way I am and why I do the things I like to do. And TBH I don't have the energy or time to explain these things again or to compromise on those things with anyone else. It is very sad, and it will be very different without W involved, but there is no reason I cannot still do what I want to do.

I would be very cautious about R's right now. I think there is the initial NRE exhilaration, where everything is generally positive. But all R's turn towards something more serious eventually, and I'm not sure I would even want that. From my current vantage point that looks like hard work, a huge time commitment, a lot of risk with little upside. I know my viewpoint is skewed and things will change.

I spent 15 years with my W, and the things that have happened the last 2 years make me think she has no clue who I am. And all along I thought that she did. It will take me a long time to get over that feeling and trust another person at a deeper level.

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Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by IronWill

Very much relate to this, U. I was in your position back in April/May. W was running out the door and I was stumped. Then something happened to change her mind again. There is still no R, and no desire for one, but I will say everything has calmed way down, and there has been a slight improvement in communication. Not to give you false hope or give you expectations, but just to let you know feelings change, nothing is permanent, and this, too, shall pass.

Thanks IW. I notice that my W catches herself before getting emotional talking about custody or money. I can see this is difficult for her, but she is trying. Does this mean she cares about me? Or is she doing this because she knows if we can't be amicable we will have to resort to using L's? I don't know... it's an interesting observation, and I see no particular meaning in it.


Same here. I see my W trying. It's like she is fighting alarm bells going off in her head. She told me that during BD - she felt like there were three people inside her head all screaming to be heard at once

That's when I knew this was definitely not about me. That's when I cranked up the empathy studies.

Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by IronWill

I relate to this very much. I don't feel like trusting anyone right now. I don't think I can. And I think that's ok - that's all part of it.

How do you look at it, U? I thought about what you wrote and here is what I came up with:

If I cannot work on the R I wanted to work on, then I don't want to be in any R. I have a lot of things I still want to do. Before her crisis/whatever, W understood and encouraged me to do those things. It was hard enough finding someone who "got me" before our R, that's why I lived alone for 8 yrs.

Right now, I have a very hard time believing I could find someone else who would understand the way I am and why I do the things I like to do. And TBH I don't have the energy or time to explain these things again or to compromise on those things with anyone else. It is very sad, and it will be very different without W involved, but there is no reason I cannot still do what I want to do.

I would be very cautious about R's right now. I think there is the initial NRE exhilaration, where everything is generally positive. But all R's turn towards something more serious eventually, and I'm not sure I would even want that. From my current vantage point that looks like hard work, a huge time commitment, a lot of risk with little upside. I know my viewpoint is skewed and things will change.

I spent 15 years with my W, and the things that have happened the last 2 years make me think she has no clue who I am. And all along I thought that she did. It will take me a long time to get over that feeling and trust another person at a deeper level.


Yeah, I agree. No R's for a very long time.

I cannot remember where I read this, but it is something that has helped me greatly in times like this. It goes "Someone can hide who they are for a maximum of 12 months, 18 months at most. After that their real personality begins to appear."

Your W did not hide who she was for 15 yrs. Mine did not hide who she was for 21 yrs.

The experiences we both had were real - don't let the changes/crises happening now affect your view of what you had.

I think in time it will be easier to understand. We just have to get through it first.

If only we could have 20/20 hindsight now lol.

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Originally Posted by IronWill

I see my W trying. It's like she is fighting alarm bells going off in her head. She told me that during BD - she felt like there were three people inside her head all screaming to be heard at once

That's when I knew this was definitely not about me. That's when I cranked up the empathy studies.

Unfortunately I don't see my W trying. I see her blaming me for relocation, then heaping on the same story about how I am potentially unsafe. I am the villain, she is the victim, and I can't change that for her.

Originally Posted by IronWill

I cannot remember where I read this, but it is something that has helped me greatly in times like this. It goes "Someone can hide who they are for a maximum of 12 months, 18 months at most. After that their real personality begins to appear."

Your W did not hide who she was for 15 yrs. Mine did not hide who she was for 21 yrs.

The experiences we both had were real - don't let the changes/crises happening now affect your view of what you had.

I think in time it will be easier to understand. We just have to get through it first.

If only we could have 20/20 hindsight now lol.

You are right, she did not hide who she was. I have seen her make black-and-white decisions about other people in her life, cut them out, and assume the worst in people. I never thought I would be on the receiving end, but here we are. In hindsight it all makes some sort of weird sense.

I know I sound kind of bitter. We had an initial counseling session today about how to proceed next. It's clear she has stuck to her "UC is potentially violent and abusive" narrative and, well, that pretty much ends our chances of recon. DB techniques have helped me a ton, and have also helped me manage my MR to this point so that we aren't in court in a nasty contested battle. But recon is not something on the table. So I'm not sure I should continue to post in the newcomer forum.

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Originally Posted by unchien

Unfortunately I don't see my W trying. I see her blaming me for relocation, then heaping on the same story about how I am potentially unsafe. I am the villain, she is the victim, and I can't change that for her.

Yes, that is also where my W was when I started DBing. It was all my fault. Nothing I did or didn't do would change anything and I was the worst person in the world, ever.

Not sure if I ever told you this, but I went nearly NC for two or three months during this time. While we were still both in the same house. I did it for my own sanity, and to remove myself from the equation almost completely. It was an excruciating time for me - you can read my posts from April through June/July if you want to see how painful it was - but I think it helped at least a little in resetting the scenario. It also helped me to see that i was definitely not the monster i was made out to be at BD.

She's blaming you right now because there is no one else to throw the blame on, U. You are the closest to the fire, so you're gonna get burned. A lot. That's the nature of this crisis. Plus she needs to justify her decisions to break up the MR. Its not rational or logical - it is 100 percent emotional. Otherwise there is nothing left to hang on to, and somewhere deep down she knows it.

Originally Posted by Unchien

You are right, she did not hide who she was. I have seen her make black-and-white decisions about other people in her life, cut them out, and assume the worst in people. I never thought I would be on the receiving end, but here we are. In hindsight it all makes some sort of weird sense.

I know I sound kind of bitter. We had an initial counseling session today about how to proceed next. It's clear she has stuck to her "UC is potentially violent and abusive" narrative and, well, that pretty much ends our chances of recon. DB techniques have helped me a ton, and have also helped me manage my MR to this point so that we aren't in court in a nasty contested battle. But recon is not something on the table. So I'm not sure I should continue to post in the newcomer forum.


Are attending these counseling sessions agreed upon by both of you? And if so, are they helping you at all? It's hard to sense from behind a keyboard but from here it seems like they aren't. Again, I might be misreading your sit, though

Soft 2x4 time - Recon is not something that happens that quickly. Not when your W is still in the anger phase.

It took my W from November 2018 to August 2019 before she started losing most of the anger. During that time she also had nightly panic attacks, extreme anxiety, and insomnia. Now she is in depression and withdrawal. There is a long way to go.

I cannot tell you what to do, as always, but if it were me, I might think about taking a breath and letting W be. That's what I have done. I have left my W alone - that's what she wanted, that's what I could do for her, so I did it. Plus it probably is not the best for you to keep getting these mini-BD's every time you have a session, at least in my opinion. I told my W I had had enough and I wasn't interested in going over my faults yet again when she tried to bring it up at another point a few weeks after BD. She stopped doing it.

Hang in there, man. Hope you keep posting here - I see lots of longtime vets still posting in newcomers, but if you decide to switch, let us know so we can follow you.

Take care, buddy.

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