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I can relate, Wolf.

I struggle with not defending myself as well. My W went on a smear campaign (again) after leaving me (again) and just bashed me to anyone who would listen. It took everything in me to not respond in kind and prove to everyone that they were being manipulated into choosing W's side.

Looking back, I am so thankful that I did not respond to W's character assassination of me. The truth will eventually come out. Also, I think in the end and once emotions calm down, W will look back and see that I maintained my integrity and she will realize that she lowered herself to talking sh*t about me. I would much rather be able to look back and feel proud of myself that I didn't take the bait.

So, don't respond to W when she baits you. It's all bullsh*t and doesn't deserve a response.

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Wolf I'm going to agree with everything you just said here. If that is the case. As far as the phone call after you left. It doesn't sound like memory issues being affected by overwhelming circumstances. It could be bait into an argument for attention from her. Or because she constantly says the same thing over and over practically every week. Maybe she is trying to inappropriately not only describe her experiences with the kids before you come over, but also in her own sense of reality and emotions, hint drop that the kids don't want to go with you and wind up acting difficult before you pick them up. I'm paraphrasing here. But As if to say " Gee Wolf? I can't seem go figure out why the kids always act up just before you pick them up? Do you? I Don't seem to have an issue with them... Isn't this pattern of behavior interesting?"
Sounds like blame shifting to me. You weren't there yet, had nothing to do with it, and had no control of the kids behavior before you arrived. So yeah. Keep acknowledging it, but don't take responsibility for it or justify it for her. I think you did a good job. Maybe you should ask her? Why do you think that is? But be prepared for any illogical answer you may get.

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W,

Just a few comments:

I still don’t think you understand the purpose of validation. Maybe something to read up on.

There is an old saying “do you want to be right or do you want to be married”. Why do you need to prove it to her to clear your conscious if you know your right?

Why do you need to speak to the therapist about the exchanges? Why do you talk to them?

Last edited by LH19; 10/15/19 05:35 PM.

M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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BTW, your W sounds like a narcissist and they will take any kind of attention including negative attention and nothing is ever their fault.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
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“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
So I know how to validate and when it was just with those text messages I needed to prove she was “crazy” but not so much for her but for me.
I believe this interaction was much better. Do you?

The goal is not to be right. The goal is to make the interaction happen as quickly and smoothly as possible.


Focus on tactics and strategy with her. Document the interaction here (and/or in a journal). You can write down what YOUR truth is.

I always talked to the kids therapist about parenting issues. I weighted his advise EXTREMELY heavy. I would then use it during parenting convos.


H:"W, I talked to the therapist. He said the kids behavior is normal under these type of circumstances. He recommends Bla bla bla and I agree. What do you think?"


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Yesterday I went to pick up the kids, of course they weren’t ready. I went in to tell them to bring their socks for the trampoline park I was going to bring them to. My w says they are dragging their butt and she has been trying to get them going for 2 hours. I responded that is very frustrating when they don’t listen and aren’t moving their butts. Then my d started to say she didn’t want to go. I said I am taking you mini golfing and to the trampoline park, it will be a lot of fun. My w then said everytime you come around they are so difficult. I said I understand how that can frustrate you and they should not behaving that way. I told my w I will speak to the therapist about why they are difficult when they go from her to me. I told the kids let’s go and we left. She then called me after 5 minutes while I was in the car, I was thinking we forgot something. Again she says to me I don’t understand why when you come around they are so difficult and when they are just with me they are great. 2 things here: 1. She forgets that she tells me all the time how difficult they are for her. 2. She is trying to make it seem like it is my fault. I was not taking the bait. I just said that is hard on you. When they behave like that and I will speak to their therapist about the transition. So I can and do validate all the time. She was looking for an argument or for me to say it has nothing to do with me. She was setting me up and I didn’t buy it.

So I know how to validate and when it was just with those text messages I needed to prove she was “crazy” but not so much for her but for me. That I do the right things and I am a good person.



I would have said something like, "Oh really, I never knew a child who was difficult some of the time. It must be nice knowing they are 100% perfect with you. Well it looks like I have some learning to do."

Validation

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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I guess I am just tired of being the villain. Just once I wanted to prove to her I am not this monster she thinks I am. I know I am using logic and it gets nowhere, but for me I needed to. I was going to go any further with it. I was not going to go back and forth. I know it’s against DB principles but I did it for me. Validating there just would have justified those feelings of hers that I “did” take her for granted. When that is completely false. Is it truly not ok for me to stand up for myself once and a while? This was the one time I had concrete proof that she is delusional.


Sending your W screenshots with stuff circled, to you a point was made, but to her it just looks like you're being petty and that you have a need to be "right". If you listen and validate you're not AGREEING with her, that's the beauty of it! You don't agree or disagree, you just acknowledge that she feels a certain way and that it's her right to have feelings.

My girlfriend is extremely headstrong and stubborn, completely different from my XW. So in the last few years I have had to make some big adjustments. Early on if I felt she was wrong about something then I would try to "prove" to her why I thought so in nearly the same manner that you're doing. All it did was make matters worse. She would be PO'd and I certainly did not feel vindicated in any way. And as an added bonus it almost guaranteed there would be no intimacy for a while. What I've learned to do is validate, no matter how ridiculous her comments are. As a small example (but based on history it could have become a BIG fight), one time she got angry and said I "never" text her first in the morning, that she always has to text me first. I was thinking "what the H is she talking about?" I go back and look and 2 out of the previous 4 days I was the first to text good morning. So what did I say back to her? Well screenshots would have been tempting, LOL! But I told her I could understand how that would be frustrating and I would try harder. Sent her a good morning text the next day and she apologized and said she had been feeling bad the day before because her monthly was starting and she realized now that she was exaggerating. She also thanked me for being so understanding. Now THAT is a win!

At the end of the day I want a happy, loving relationship (and the intimacy that goes with it) more than I want to be "right".

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but her not relying back shows that she knows that she was wrong. So couldn’t argue with the proof.


But how did it make her feel? She was probably really steamed about it. And that's what you want to avoid. If you being right results in her being angry, then you didn't win anything.

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It’s funny when I told some of my friends what happened they all said good for me to show her how messed up in the head she is.


Well it's your friends' job to validate you. She probably showed the texts to her friends and they all patted her on the back and told her she was right not to reply when you were being such a know-it-all jerk, right? On the other hand we are the neutral third parties. Her friends are biased towards her and telling her what she wants to hear. Your friends are doing the same for you. We try to help you see the bigger picture.

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Yet on here everyone says I am wrong.


Just to clarify, we're not saying you're "wrong". We are saying that keeping the peace requires you to be the lighthouse on the rock- solid and unmoving even when she's crashing her angry waves against you.

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My w then said everytime you come around they are so difficult. I said I understand how that can frustrate you and they should not behaving that way. I told my w I will speak to the therapist about why they are difficult when they go from her to me.


Great response!

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She then called me after 5 minutes while I was in the car, I was thinking we forgot something. Again she says to me I don’t understand why when you come around they are so difficult and when they are just with me they are great. 2 things here: 1. She forgets that she tells me all the time how difficult they are for her. 2. She is trying to make it seem like it is my fault. I was not taking the bait. I just said that is hard on you. When they behave like that and I will speak to their therapist about the transition. So I can and do validate all the time.


Good.

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She was looking for an argument or for me to say it has nothing to do with me. She was setting me up and I didn’t buy it.


Don't assume conspiracies around her actions. She has health problems that affect her memory, correct? Maybe she really did forget the convo. You did the right thing in repeating the validation, that's all you need to do. Repeat, then hang up.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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She was looking for an argument or for me to say it has nothing to do with me. She was setting me up and I didn’t buy it.


I suspect this method has worked in producing arguments over which one is correct. Is this really about proving she is wrong, you are right, or that it has nothing to do with you? I suggest you have this overwhelming urge just to prove to her that you are not the bad guy she tries to paint. You feel like the villain b/c of your own mindset. Stop buying into that mentality. Have more self value, self confidence than needing to "prove" or "defend" yourself. Like MWD says, choose your battles wisely. Is this really the hill you want to die on?

I don't doubt that she was looking for an argument, but it was more about pushing your buttons. She uses this method b/c it works so well. Even if you are able to show her in black & white that she is wrong.........you still lose. The way I suggest you try is to let it run off your back like water. Let it go, Wolf. ((hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted by LH19
W,
There is an old saying “do you want to be right or do you want to be married”. Why do you need to prove it to her to clear your conscious if you know your right?


You are right. I just feel like I let her get away with everything so she probably thinks she is right all the time. Which usually I don’t care. But I was just tired of her making me out to be a villain and I wanted to realize I am not. I know, logic doesn’t work. I have heard that saying recently and wish I knew that saying a long time ago. I don’t want to be right I want to be married. But it’s too late for that.

Originally Posted by LH19
BTW, your W sounds like a narcissist and they will take any kind of attention including negative attention and nothing is ever their fault.


I think she always was a little selfish, but she has really pushed the limits. She has actually told me she just wants to be free and do what she wants and when she wants. She doesn’t want to have to answer to anyone anymore. I get that, we have been married since we were 25. She was a mother at 28. So now she feels like it’s her time, I just would t expect it at the expense of the family. But that’s just my way of thinking hers is very different, obviously.


Originally Posted by IHCLACS

Sounds like blame shifting to me. You weren't there yet, had nothing to do with it, and had no control of the kids behavior before you arrived. So yeah. Keep acknowledging it, but don't take responsibility for it or justify it for her.


Right now everything seems to be my fault. It use to really bother me and I would try to explain why it wasn’t. Now I know that is just how she is right now, global warming is my fault too. So for those times she blames me for ridiculous things I just validate. The kids acting up before I get there is ridiculous to me and I know I have nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

The goal is not to be right. The goal is to make the interaction happen as quickly and smoothly as possible.?"


I am going to work hard on making the interactions as quickly and smooth as possible. I am so tired of all of this. Unfortunately this is never going to go away.

AS A lot to quote there. At the end of the day I want a happy, loving relationship (and the intimacy that goes with it) more than I want to be "right". As I agree with this now. Unfortunately there is no more intimacy between us, I just want peace I don’t want to interact with her anymore. But if I do, quick and peaceful. I will try and be the lighthouse but unfortunately her boat has crashed. She is “gone”, the woman I married no longer exists. But I will remain strong.

Originally Posted by sandi2
Quote
She was looking for an argument or for me to say it has nothing to do with me. She was setting me up and I didn’t buy it.


I suspect this method has worked in producing arguments over which one is correct. Is this really about proving she is wrong, you are right, or that it has nothing to do with you? I suggest you have this overwhelming urge just to prove to her that you are not the bad guy she tries to paint. You feel like the villain b/c of your own mindset. Stop buying into that mentality. Have more self value, self confidence than needing to "prove" or "defend" yourself. Like MWD says, choose your battles wisely. Is this really the hill you want to die on?


You are right I want to know I am not a bad guy. LH has told me numerous times logic doesn’t work. I am tired of her making me out to be the villain and that any problem we had in our marriage was all my fault. She Makes it out to be that she was perfect. So yeah after a while I get fed up with all the accusations. But I keep “speaking Chinese to someone who understands English.”


M:42 XW:41
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BD: 8/10/18
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Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
AS A lot to quote there. At the end of the day I want a happy, loving relationship (and the intimacy that goes with it) more than I want to be "right". As I agree with this now. Unfortunately there is no more intimacy between us, I just want peace I don’t want to interact with her anymore.


I do understand that, but what I mean is in ALL our relationships (friends, family, coworkers, clients) it's better to let go of the need to be "right" in favor of maintaining a relationship on good terms. This was a big 180 for me because before BD I wanted to be "right" to a fault, and I wanted to prove my point until everyone admitted I was right. but even when they did it didn't bring any sense of "victory", it just made me realize how stubborn I was being about it. So like I said before, validation is a handy tool because you're not pushing your agenda to be "right", nor are you admitting you are wrong. It's a neutral, non-confrontational stance. It has made my relationship with my GF much better, and has also improved my relationships with all other people in my life.

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I will try and be the lighthouse but unfortunately her boat has crashed. She is “gone”, the woman I married no longer exists. But I will remain strong.


That's all you can do. You can't bring the old her back, although she may come back some day on her own. So you be the best "you" that you can be.

Last edited by AnotherStander; 10/17/19 02:29 PM.

Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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