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Link to last thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2865823#Post2865823

She is saying I am refusing to leave. I do not how to handle this, I feel myself getting very emotional. I am so furious. I want to spew at her, tell her she is delusional. I have worked far too hard for her to come in and mess this is up. My grades are feeling the effects. If she wants to leave so badly and live apart, she can go find an extra part time job and pay for an apartment. But instead I am the one expected to do this. Is it wrong to tell her my thoughts?

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44,

Do not tell her your thoughts. Tell her that if she wants out that she is the one who needs to leave and that you’re not leaving the house until it’s sold or she buys you out.

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Agreed with LH, she can leave if she wants to. Don’t let her bait you into a fight.

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I definitely needed that reminder...dont let her bait me into a fight, got it.

So I had to finish my midterm (last one, thank heavens above) and couldn't talk when W got home. She wanted to finish the discussion after I had stopped replying (when she said I was refusing to leave). By the time I was done, she had gone to bed. So I assume this convo is going to happen tomorrow and will go along similar lines. I think I have everything in a row, she really cannot tell me to leave. I will tell her if she can't stand it, she can be the one to arrange something else. I don't know how many times I can tell her I don't want to go live with my grandmother in the house where my grandpa just died. She says it is not unreasonable that she doesn't want to live together. But it is also not unreasonable for me to say it cannot happen immediately, because she suddenly wants to change everything about our lives with no input from me. If she was so unsure she shouldn't have signed so many legal contracts.

Ultimately, I feel I am in a lose lose situation. She doesn't want to be with me, I want to move on, it [censored] to be stuck without a clean break. I get that. If we somehow R because I don't leave (which I think is what she fears), then I most likely be stuck having hope again with someone who seems to just be convincing herself and me that she wants to be with me during times outside of BD. This is what I have resigned myself to believe, that she wanted to love me but never truly could enough for some reason. Maybe just that anxiety over the imbalance. I probably pushed too hard. Just like I pushed while she was away and caused this latest round. It guts me. I wish I did not love her so much.

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44,

Yeah she’s going to try to manipulate you to get you out of the house probably by throwing you some crumbs that if you leave that will give her time and space to think about things. Listen, validate and stand your ground that you are not the one who wants out and you’re not leaving until the D is final and you have all your affairs in order.

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Hey 44 how you doing buddy?

I’ll add that if she tries to draw out the discussion and wear you down just state your position and say ‘I can’t take it any further ‘ and/or ‘I’m firm with my position ‘

Good luck mate


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
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Here is the link to your initial thread when you joined in April 2018, if you want to add it.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=61250&Number=2783627#Post2783627


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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You didn't cause this, 44. I think your W has some unresolved issues from her childhood that show up in your relationship. Because you are the closest person to her, you are the one she projects her stuff on to.

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I will admit it is a little difficult for me to give you unbiased advice about your sitch, b/c I don't like your WW. She may have issues that originated in her childhood, IDK. She has admitted to knowing what it is and what she does wrong and stubbornly refuses to go get help b/c she doesn't want to "hear about it" in therapy. Okay, but the main thing I don't like about her is that she is a bully. She is a manipulator. Now, call me crazy.........but I have not seen a bully, manipulator, and abuser in a relationship change by having R talks. These type of people do not wish to resolve the problems within the relationship! Do you get that, 44? She is bullying you to move out of the house.

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She texted again before any response from me...that she is thinking of going to the courthouse today or tomorrow to get papers and what are my thoughts. Now I'm really freaking.


Why are you freaking???? You have been posting about this very possible scenario, so now it's here. And, being 44tries, you want to sit down and design a mature plan............with a very immature WW. What will you propose? More IHS until you get your degree? Which means more abuse, b/c she doesn't want you cramping her style. The more you tell her you need time to finish your course work, or more time to think about things.........the more harassment she's going to dump on you. It is your call, 44. I just don't want you go stick your head in the sand, hoping she'll do "the right thing".........b/c that is not taking action to protect yourself. You need to get a lawyer's legal advice, and I think you said you had the military policy (in writing) about marital separation, etc.

You say you wish you didn't love her so much. From the time you first joined the board, I did not sense your posts were coming from a broken-hearted man who was desperately in love with his WW. And, I mean no disrespect by saying this, 44. I think you wanted to have that bond with her. You, like most every person, wanted to be a good spouse, get your degree so that you could make a decent living, and have a happy marriage. Your W, on the other hand, had doubts from the beginning, and I think she knew in her heart that she was not committed. I think she likes the initial stage of a new relationship. The flirting, texting, maybe even having sex......IDK. As we have previously discussed, she has some type of fear of intimacy, vulnerability, or something else that prevents her from fully committing to a long term relationship. She'll move on the next OM to get the initial "rush", and the next, etc. Now, whether she has a mental/emotional problem or not...........you do not have to endure her abuse. You said it was hard to "give up" on your W. I think it is hard to give up the dream you had for this MR, which I think we all had when we M young. I simply do not see this situation getting better by you trying to hunker down on your side, b/c the problem is not you. You could be the perfect role model of a H, and I don't think it will change her behavior, now.

It seems to me that when you have been under pressure from her, it is hard for you to take the lead and make a firm decision that might not align with what she wants. You wait to see what she does, what she tells you, or whatever......you wait for her to call the shots. If she goes into her avoiding routine, then you fall back to the DB principle of working on yourself, etc., etc. I'm going out on a limb to say that some men with NGS, envision that particular DB principle much in the same way they use the title or label of "Christian" as a their excuse to stay with an unloving, even abusive, spouse....rather than lead with a decision or action independent of his spouse. What I'm saying is that this principle is seen as a comfort zone. It even sounds safer. However, these H's struggle enforcing boundaries b/c the lines have become so blurry living in those conditions day after day......and the wayward spouse wears them down. It's like battle fatigue! Again, I am not trying to be insulting.......really! I'm not saying that particular DB principle is wrong, and I'm not saying religion, scripture (or whatever) else is wrong. I'm saying what I've seen in this type of situation where a man who has insecurity issues, and who "freaks out" when W pressures him for immediate action. I see men who back down and settle for a bad sitch, hoping upon hope she will change.

44, everything you've said about her signing legal contracts, etc., is true. However, we are talking about a woman who has a problem with commitment, who is totally selfish, who is in rebellion.......and don't forget, illogical. I think men are taking a huge, huge gamble when they invest into a new house with a WW. Even if she was a recovering WW who was doing the necessary work to save her MR, I think it is a mistake..........unless they have nowhere to live and buy cheaper than renting. I would tell anyone who should ask me personally, to hold off the first couple of years that WW is recovering.

And speaking of gambling.............. shocked On top of everything else, she has a gambling addiction. Yes, she does. In fact, she may not be in an affair, and there may not be some OM. Her texting and sneakiness may very well be connected to something else. Here's what I'm going to suggest. I think you need to do what works for you. Would you do better if you actually had Intell about OM, or would you become more obsessive? You are currently losing your mind and don't even know for sure. Look, rebellion takes on different forms. Waywardness is begins in the heart/mind before it ever shows overtly. Most cases we have on the board does include a WW in an affair, but I have said for years that the WW can show rebellion in other ways........and become addicted to other things. I would say an affair ranks the top of the list, but gambling is not too far behind. In some cases, the WW gets into the GGW lifestyle, starts taking drugs, etc. Sometimes it's the OM that leads her off into other areas, but not always. I'm just saying that you could be looking so hard for OM that you don't see what's really going on.

You said if you knew for sure there was an OM, you'd tell her to pack her stuff and leave. Okay, so get the Intell, and save your sanity. I just want you to remember a couple of things before you do it. Once you read it, you can't unread and it's there in your memory bank forever. Once you read the evidence, it takes much more self control to not look again, and again, and again........better known as "snooping". It may sound more like a play on words, but some distinguish gathering evidence or Intell apart from daily snooping. As one of the guys told you, once you have evidence, don't keep going back to see what they say the following days. It is very addictive behavior, and only you know if you can handle it.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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LH, DS9, T, thank you all so much, every one of your posts was helpful for me.

W continued her strange behavior last night and woke me up out of dead sleep at 1am to ask if I had let dogs in her room. I have had nothing to with that and she knows one of our dogs open doors. I told her no. Then she text me from work about it AGAIN this morning, asking if it was me. I just told her no again. She did not bring up anything about the "unfinished" discussion from yesterday. When she got home, she started talking about work and no mention of a convo. Then she said she was going to the bar with coworkers tonight and some girl sped in like she owned the place and picked her up about an hour later. She said she will Uber home.

I am so angry at my detachment. I want to not care. I still think this is part of why our relationship has had problems. I can't help but feel controlling about this kind of thing. It used to be worse, I forced myself to be better, and then at the literal peak of what I achieved, she cheated. Obviously right now it is impossible to feel secure and trusting of her, but with detachment I should feel nothing. I don't want that adrenaline and panic I feel when she runs out and gets in some car I don't know. An MR cannot work if I cannot let my W go out with friends without panic. Again, I know it's not as pertinent right now, but I would have felt the same way if there were no BD and she just didn't invite for whatever reason. She probably would never not, but that is because she thinks I would freak out. It's a horrible feedback loop. I want to address these control/anxiety problems and am journaling them here so I can remember for IC. But I hear what you are all saying, ultimately the problem is not me.

Sandi, I'm going to reply to your post separately.

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