Married 28 years (together 30) Three teenagers Cites my mental illness as to why he left
BD 4/1/19 Moved out 4/6/19 Each rented new places 10/5/19
WAH has been living in his camper and me/kids were in the rental house. I was cc'd on an email to the rental company stating that we would be vacating the house Oct 31. I found a rental house and he found one shortly thereafter. I'm surrounded by boxes but moved in. He is living at his new house but isn't fully moved out yet.
Our kids wanted their own bedrooms so two kids live with me and one lives with him (we live 2 minutes apart) He's gone dark so we parallel parent. I haven't been on my own in 30 years and since he was the breadwinner it's scary. He pays child support but it's tight. I have a job but it doesn't pay enough for me/kids.
Kas, how are you working on the Perfectionism issues? I'm reading through a book by Brene Brown--who I know we both mention from time to time--on that subject.
CW I need to revisit Brene Brown to get specific tips on dealing with perfectionism - her books are great. For now I keep thinking that beating my codependency addiction takes priority. I'm struggling with being on my own without him to validate my existence. Procrastination has also reared it's ugly head because when I was still in the other house I had hope that WAH would come back. He's not obviously and now the motivation to change isn't as strong and I'm slipping.
I'm not giving up. Reality just hit me in the face and its hard.
I've suffered from depression my whole life and this doesn't feel like that. It feels like a case of perfectionism wrapped up in codependency with a side of procrastination.
LOL! I can actually relate to that unfortunately! For being a perfectionist I am woefully imperfect I've managed to let a lot of it go since BD, S and D. Codependency, people say it like it's a dirty word but marriage IS codependency. Why would anyone ever get married if they didn't want on some level to be codependent, to be a team? So yes we were codependent, and now we have to learn not to be. But at the same time we shouldn't try to carry the world around on our shoulders, we SHOULD try to depend on others on some level, our kids for example. And they in turn depend on us for things.
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My current therapist says I'm doing great that I just need to work on radical acceptance and learning positive coping skills to tolerate a problem instead of choosing toxic things like finding another man. I need to work on changing my belief system which is a direct result of taking action even when I feel bad. I see my dr next month and will ask her about this.
Oh OK well that sounds good then. We only see one side of people here, a lot of people use this place to vent which is perfectly fine, but it can make them look much more negative and down than they are in real life. It sounds like that may be the case for you, I mean from what you describe it sounds like your kids think highly of you and think you are doing great, so that's awesome!
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My brain appears to be working well and I'm not sure a pill can fix perfectionism, procrastination and codependency. Codependency is my worst problem. I don't know how to be alone.
I absolutely FREAKED OUT when my XW left, I felt like I couldn't do ANYTHING on my own and would crash and burn in a big way without her. We were married 20 years but together much longer, we owned a house together long before we got married. We started dating when I was just a couple of years out of college so she was the sum total of my adult life. It takes a long time to find yourself, you have to settle into your new routine. You just moved, that's a huge adjustment. But once you start settling into your routine I'm sure you'll be fine!
Codependency, people say it like it's a dirty word
My definition of codependency is relying heavily on another person for my sense of self and well being. I took the phrase "you complete me" literally. This is the one thing I'm actually looking forward to fixing. To imagine a world where I don't need a man to make me feel good about myself sounds heavenly. I love men yes and it's not hard to find one but then I get caught up in this trap of doing things I don't want to do just to keep from being alone. I don't want to do this anymore.
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Oh OK well that sounds good then. We only see one side of people here, a lot of people use this place to vent which is perfectly fine, but it can make them look much more negative and down than they are in real life. It sounds like that may be the case for you, I mean from what you describe it sounds like your kids think highly of you and think you are doing great, so that's awesome!
You do have me second guessing myself because I've never been a "happy" person. I've got the personality of Dr House. I'm intelligent, quick witted, sarcastic and dark but I'm also kind with a weird sense of humor. I think I've got the raw materials I just need to learn to focus on the good. When I was depressed? I couldn't get off the couch, everything was just hard, I was tired, it felt like my brain wanted to kill me, most days I functioned fine but overall I felt like I was in a fog. Like everyone else was living their lives and I struggled with just basic tasks.
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she was the sum total of my adult life. It takes a long time to find yourself, you have to settle into your new routine. You just moved, that's a huge adjustment. But once you start settling into your routine I'm sure you'll be fine!
Its hard to imagine that I might not be married for much longer.
Today I feel depressed. Being bent towards it means I have to maintain a sense of order in order to stay grounded. My house is chaotic and it's exhausting. I'm tired which makes it 10X harder to be okay. My special needs son is struggling with anxiety so I'm having to use what energy I have to keep him calm. I'm not eating well, etc.
Awww thanks. I read your thread I just don’t want to make it about me. I was raised by a narcissist, he meant well he was just too damaged. I went NC when I was 33 years old.
S19 is having anxiety over the chaos but I calmed him down. He helped me get a huge metal shelf and put it together for me. It’s an open pantry for all my cooking and baking gear. I didn’t finish but he’s happy I’m working on it. He loves my cooking.
D17 was watching Shrek in her room. I’m 10 feet away (lol) so it’s loud. Normally the noise would bother me but today I just smiled.
I’ve got 2 kids who would rather be here than with WAH. Yes I got the better end of the deal. S19 lost a cable in the move and was upset. WAHs big house and money can’t compare to a mom who drops everything to find a cable. I’ve been here before and WAH would say “can’t it wait?” He’s autistic so no it can’t wait. I’m not catering to S19 he’s only like this when he can’t calm himself down. S19 is a high functioning brilliant kid because I’m here for him.
Life isn’t going so great for WAH. His new rental house is surrounded by um how do I say this not so nice people and they hate WAH.
We live outside a big city that is in the top 10 for the most dangerous places to live. We sold our last house because drug dealers moved in. Our plan was to leave the area after our kids graduated high school.
Finding a decent place to live is a bit of a challenge. I got lucky. I’m in a neighborhood filled with people who have lived here for decades.
WAH lives 2 minutes away but it’s a different, newer neighborhood. Lots of rental houses, more crime, it’s loud, parties, cops frequent there, etc. I thought maybe he’d found a good street (it happens). Nope.
I got lucky. I’m in a neighborhood filled with people who have lived here for decades.
This is where to focus. You wanted a low-crime, low-turnover neighborhood--and you got one! That's an achievement and will make life more pleasant for you and yours.
I've lived in high-crime neighborhoods. My kids only learn about them via books and films.
D17 went over there to visit the pets. WAH is drinking a lot, the bed he got reeks of smoke and he’s never home. D14 is there by herself living on fast food. He’s told her he’s going to quit his 2nd job soon. She’s lonely but ok. I haven’t seen her in a week and barely talk to her but that’s on me. She and I are in a power struggle and I have to see it through. She wants me to compete for her and I’m not going to do that. I’m not going to be that parent.
WAH is 54 years old. I triggered at the grocery store when I saw Metamucil (he’s got diverticulitis). The move has unsettled me. I’m tired and so I went back to bed today. I haven’t done that since he left. I don’t think I’m depressed but I need to be careful. It’s a slippery slope for sure.
You know the DB montra is to take the focus off your H and put it all on your children to assist them as they are also struggling through the process. You seem to be doing the opposite where all your focus is on your H and none of it is on your D14 who is at a critical age and needs your support. I think you need to revisit your priorities.
You know the DB montra is to take the focus off your H and put it all on your children to assist them as they are also struggling through the process. You seem to be doing the opposite where all your focus is on your H and none of it is on your D14 who is at a critical age and needs your support. I think you need to revisit your priorities.
Lot of I's in that last paragraph.
I’m not sure what to do about D14. Yes she’s my kid but I’m going to speak facts. She’s the baby, the gorgeous one, self absorbed, a mean girl. She won’t give me, WAH, or anyone the time of day unless she wants something or you have something to offer. D17 is nice to her (people pleaser) and D14 treats her like a servant, will make fun of her, will slam the door in her face.
I was so addicted to WAH that my attention was on him (still is as you can see). I got close to my kids after he left and that’s when I had to face these truths about my kids. Before I only saw what I wanted to see.
WAH is a pushover that’s how he became dubbed the nice one. I built a relationship with D17 and S19 in the 7 months he was gone. They chose me over nice him. Later I found out they didn’t think he was nice at all.
WAH doesn’t connect with people (avoidant) and when faced with the loss of his kids he focused on D14 because she can be bought. I tried reaching her but it was too little too late and I can’t compete with WAHs money. An hour after she moved in with WAH she realized her mistake. She now wants to switch with S19 but what she really wants is to go back to the way it was. Wants the comfort of a family with D17 being at her beck and call while continuing to have WAHs money (he gives her whatever she wants).
I said she can move back in with me but things won’t be the same. She’s since backed down and said everything is fine. It probably is since he’s giving her everything and I won’t. And this is where I’m at 7 days later.
I’m looking for a little compassion today. Yes I’m thinking about WAH too much because I just moved a week ago. I’m unpacking boxes that were in the attic. I know the drill get rid of everything that reminds me of him far far away from me. I’m broke and afraid to let anything go. Someone talk me down. Why do I need winter clothes that are 3 sizes too big? Had I thought about this I would gone through the clothes before I moved. I’ve already gotten rid of the summer clothes because they were huge and looked awful on me.
I packed them back up in bags to go in storage and as I type this I realize I need to let them go. Sigh. They are too big anyway right?
My husband of 28 years BD and walked out 7 months ago. I’m surrounded by ghosts packed in boxes and I’m feeling sorry for myself. The chaos, the lack of normalcy isn’t helping.
Today I feel like an alcoholic who has fallen off the wagon.
I know the drill get rid of everything that reminds me of him far far away from me.
I put mine in bags/boxes. Out of sight, out of mind. I figured 20 years from now some kid or grandkid may want to see that happy moment. It's only 10yrs later, and I'm already thinking of dusting off one or two photos. I know others who got joy out of tossing the lot. Whatever you need to get through this.
I’m surrounded by ghosts packed in boxes and I’m feeling sorry for myself.
If the environment is getting you down, could you change the scenery for a bit? I love going to the bookstore with my kids. $5 buys a venti drink you can split into water cups for everyone and you're surrounded by books, Wifi, and an upbeat atmosphere. Lots of windows with muted sunshine streaming in.
Sorry you're feeling down. Sending hugs back to you.
I know the drill get rid of everything that reminds me of him far far away from me.
I put mine in bags/boxes. Out of sight, out of mind. I figured 20 years from now some kid or grandkid may want to see that happy moment. It's only 10yrs later, and I'm already thinking of dusting off one or two photos. I know others who got joy out of tossing the lot. Whatever you need to get through this.
I left all the sentimental things with him.
I’m triggered over my winter clothes. Stupid right? I was needy, pathetic and jumped through hoops trying to get his attention. The only thing I had going for me was he was physically attracted to me. I could wear cute clothes and pretend for a moment that he wasn’t checked out. I was so in love and would do anything for him. The clothes reminded me of how awful I felt begging for attention.
I went out with S19 and I remembered I’m not that person anymore. Yes today is hard very hard but at least I don’t feel humiliated. I’m tiny now and they probably don’t even fit or I can rock the oversized sweater look. Lol
I’m surrounded by ghosts packed in boxes and I’m feeling sorry for myself.
If the environment is getting you down, could you change the scenery for a bit? I love going to the bookstore with my kids. $5 buys a venti drink you can split into water cups for everyone and you're surrounded by books, Wifi, and an upbeat atmosphere. Lots of windows with muted sunshine streaming in.
Sorry you're feeling down. Sending hugs back to you.
I went out and it helped a lot thanks. It’s going to take me a bit to unpack so I shoved the bags/boxes behind the sofa where I can’t see them. I also picked up the kitchen. My kids need me and I have to get a grip. I just hate divorce. He needed to leave for me to get better it’s just a very big price to pay and I’m sad.
I’m just journaling. D17 has her friends over for the first time, a sleepover. I cooked an actual dinner so the place smells homey. Hiding all the boxes behind the couch worked. I’m calm now. I don’t do well with clutter in my home. I’m ok at work but not here.
Went to the store and I got yet another warning light on my car, 3rd one since WAH left. The last one I sent him a text, I called, S19 sent a text and he ignored all of us. No biggie I got it handled and S19 has stepped up since then. This was almost 3 months ago, been NC since.
S19 jumped on this, texted WAH (ugh), drove to the big box store where WAH works now, and got a tire pressure gauge. Came home, checked my tires and one is low. WAH wants to fix this...tomorrow. It’s an excuse for him to see S19 but still. S19 has been driving my car when necessary (it’s cute). S19 has grown into a man who wants to take care of me (also cute). All he wants are home cooked dinners. Lol.
S19 has grown into a man who wants to take care of me (also cute). All he wants are home cooked dinners.
I am not saying that this is what is happening with S19 but it was a huge concern for me with D13. I looked up parentifying and saw a lot of warning signals D13 was doing and made sure they were stopped and that I was not contributing to it. Just something to think about not an accusation.
Parentifying
Turning your teen into your mate, friend, or equal is known as "parentifying" your child; this is also referred to as Emotional Incest or Surrogate Spouse Syndrome.
How the Surrogate Spouse Role Impacts a Child's Adult Relationships
This level of parent-child enmeshment fosters unhealthy dependence. The child who was trained so well to anticipate the needs of his parent will, without awareness or intervention, carry this trait into his adult relationships.
The doting son and later doting husband set himself up to be a doormat by pampering a partner who is happy to have a one-sided relationship.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Rooskers yes I considered this. I talk to many people in real life about my concerns and so far everyone thinks it’s good for S19 to do chores not unlike taking out the trash. My father and I had an EA type relationship so I’ve been mindful about this since the moment I had kids. I didn’t want to turn into my father.
On that note divorce messes kids up. It sets them up to have bad relationships, trust issues, abandonment issues, etc. When my WAH chose to walk out after 28 years he damaged the kids quickly with the way he treated them and me. He forced us all to go into survival mode. My older kids stepped up because overnight I was a single parent. WAH didn’t parent (still doesn’t) other then writing checks.
Bottom line my kids are already damaged. The only thing I don’t know is how badly and how much will they recover.
I'm not making excuses I'm stating facts. I see the damage in my kids. I see how they worry about me because if he can walk out without so much as a backwards glance then what's to stop me from doing the same? My friends and IC say my kids have had to grow up overnight, their childhoods forever changed. S19 went from having his college paid for to now shouldering debt. He used to spend his time gaming and studying now he frets over my car. D17 went from having a father hugging her everyday and calling her "pumpkin". Before her biggest concern was which friend was coming over and which movie to choose. Now she worries when I get down. She fusses at me for spending money. She "mothers" me. It's just the three of us now. WAH works 80 hours a week so he doesn't have time for them.
I do most of the work around the house but D17 and S19 help. What makes helping out toxic is when being a surrogate spouse becomes one of their jobs. I post on here, I have friends in real life, I have a support group, I have a dr (meds) and I have a therapist. I'm doing everything in my power to be a strong parent to them. I stumble (like Saturday) and I see them worry. I posted here to get the thoughts out of my head so I could pull it together.
My coworkers bought me dishes. See I've got people who care about me so I'm good.
I've made yet another mistake at work. I want to cry.
I'm not settled at home, been eating out too much, can't afford it, have no idea where I am financially, can't get caught up at work, it's 2 steps forward, 5 back.
It's in these I'm overwhelmed moments that my focus goes right back to WAH.
I still see WAH as the solution to "some" of my problems which I guess is improvement because it was "all".
S19 has grown into a man who wants to take care of me (also cute). All he wants are home cooked dinners.
I am not saying that this is what is happening with S19 but it was a huge concern for me with D13. I looked up parentifying and saw a lot of warning signals D13 was doing and made sure they were stopped and that I was not contributing to it. Just something to think about not an accusation.
Parentifying
Turning your teen into your mate, friend, or equal is known as "parentifying" your child; this is also referred to as Emotional Incest or Surrogate Spouse Syndrome.
How the Surrogate Spouse Role Impacts a Child's Adult Relationships
This level of parent-child enmeshment fosters unhealthy dependence. The child who was trained so well to anticipate the needs of his parent will, without awareness or intervention, carry this trait into his adult relationships.
The doting son and later doting husband set himself up to be a doormat by pampering a partner who is happy to have a one-sided relationship.
I don't want to bust your chops, but Parentifying is very controversial in the field among psychological professionals. Are you one by chance?
kas my last post was not to accuse, and yes Parentifying is controversial, but I just wanted to share some of my own fears I have with my daughter. I believe in you kas and so do a lot of people here.
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I'm to blame of course. Work stinks today.
I had to laugh a little at that one because I could have written it myself. I was suppose to have my class lead announcements this morning but couldn't because I couldn't find the binder needed for it. D13 Chromebook was left at home and yes that was considered my fault as well. Jog-a-thon pledges were not turned in last week because I was gone on a field trip but that is no excuse, again my fault. Just another fantastic Monday. Funny thing though, I am not that bothered by any of it and am working to not make the same mistakes for tomorrow.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
kas my last post was not to accuse, and yes Parentifying is controversial, but I just wanted to share some of my own fears I have with my daughter. I believe in you kas and so do a lot of people here.
I didn't post that but the other thing that is controversial is parental alienation. WAH thinks I turned D17 against him but nope he did that all by himself. She's got a car, a phone, could have moved in with him, the whole nine. She has no problem lying to him or me. After we got close she started showing me all of the skeletons in her closet. Had NO idea how much she was hiding from me. If she wanted to see or talk to him she would. I have ZERO influence on her when it comes to WAH.
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I had to laugh a little at that one because I could have written it myself.
My day got worse. I didn't make this mistake but it took several of us 2 hours to fix it which means I haven't had time to fix the mistake I made. I was late getting home work and had nothing for dinner. I'll be okay until my boss wants a status report.
I had a traumatic childhood and as I heal I've noticed I miss WAH the most when I'm overwhelmed. I think this is a childhood wound that I've never healed.
I don't think I'm very good at adulting. Since he left I've gotten better but when too many "adult" things need to be done I want to cry because WAH isn't here to help me be an adult. Make sense?
So WAH bought me a new tire how nice. S19 is helping him move tonight. Got a text from S19 “did you mean to leave your jewelry here”. Hmmmm I cleaned the house out and he thinks I forgot my jewelry, the sole items sitting in what used to be our bedroom. Yes I meant to leave it there.
Back story: I haven’t worn jewelry in 6 years so yeah don’t need it.
the other thing that is controversial is parental alienation
This is definitely controversial because each situation is so different in divorce. I have seen and heard a 5 year old being coached how horrible their dad is and why it is alright to hate him. The mother even talked about how the dad should be feared because he might hurt you. This is completely wrong especially to do that to a 5 year old.
However, it is much more difficult when dealing with a much older child/teen. It would take a lot to convince me you are turning your much older teens against your WAH.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
I've noticed I miss WAH the most when I'm overwhelmed.
Same here. It's tricky to work out sometimes if it's healthy or unhealthy. I.e., am I wishing she were here to help because she usually helps with this, she's more skilled at this, or I feel incapable? The few remaining tasks I have not done in the 5 months since my partner left I definitely want basic proficiency at.
I've noticed I miss WAH the most when I'm overwhelmed.
Same here. It's tricky to work out sometimes if it's healthy or unhealthy. I.e., am I wishing she were here to help because she usually helps with this, she's more skilled at this, or I feel incapable? The few remaining tasks I have not done in the 5 months since my partner left I definitely want basic proficiency at.
CW the last time I had car trouble he threw a tantrum. Fine be that way I’ll fix my own car and I did. Vowed I’d never ask him to do a husbandly thing ever again and I haven’t. Pretty much stopped talking to him after that (3 months ago). So now he fixes my car? Sarcasm.
Had my DBT class tonight the verdict is they think I’m doing wonderful.
Moving has really set me back. My DBT instructor said yes but still thinks I'm doing great all things considering.
Friday I did great and then life hit. Unpacking, the finality of it all, S19s anxiety, D17 is upset, and my mood just dropped. Monday everything at work went wrong.
Tuesday was just Monday 2.0. Today I overslept, got screamed at by a school crossing guard, and I had to fight back the tears.
Then the pity party starts....sigh I will pull it together it's just hard.
I'm screwing up and my boss wants to quit (unrelated to me). When WAH was supporting me (mental illness) I could have handled the stress of that (my bosses) job. In fact WAH was excited about the prospect because we'd double our income. We talked about it often which means his plan to leave me was a rash decision. I remember when he stopped talking about our retirement but I blew it off.
The evidence all points to 2-3 months but I doubted myself.
This likely explains why he hasn't filed for divorce yet.
I've been thinking a lot about my struggles to be alone. When I first got here someone pointed out there was a difference in being alone and lonely. I am not lonely.
Being alone invokes this fear that I can't be okay unless I've got someone to take care of me. The irony is even when I have people taking care of me I'm only okay temporarily because no matter what I still have to be alone. Instead of looking inward learning to control my own emotions I can focus all my energy on the other person. It's a nice distraction but it solves absolutely nothing.
Originally Posted by "Wikipedia entry on Codependency"
Codependency is a behavioral condition in a relationship where one person enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement. Among the core characteristics of codependency is an excessive reliance on other people for approval and a sense of identity.
Would that describe your marriage--you sought his help to survive, and he sought positive words or praise? You've said now you want to stop depending on men and to solve your own problems.
Would that describe your marriage--you sought his help to survive, and he sought positive words or praise? You've said now you want to stop depending on men and to solve your own problems.
I am mentally ill. The actual symptoms (depression, irritability, mood swings, emotional detachment, etc) are gone now. (medication and IC). I've been symptom free for 7 months. He loved me and was a caretaker. He was okay with this role until he dug into my past and decided I had duped him. We were never the same after that.
Codependency isn't a mental illness so that part isn't fixed. I needed him and he needed to be needed (both of us were high achievers) I lost my ability to achieve once he took the support away. Life hit us hard and our house of cards collapsed.
I want to be independent, to have my own identity, to solve my own problems. I want to be a high achiever without needing someone to prop me up. I was looking for some sort of road map as to how in the heck to fix this. I'm thinking it's effort over a period of time. As long as I stay single while striving towards excellence and problem solving I'll get there eventually or am I missing something?
I need some tough love right now. I haven't heard from my attorney in a month (she's busy) and I don't have a separation agreement. I don't want to do this.
Fears:
1) 30% of his income might be protected from D. I'm afraid to face this reality when I'm not even unpacked yet.
I never gave up on it, just eventually came to realize I was clinging to something that no longer existed! It took over a year to figure that out, and another year to finally push for D myself.
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1) 30% of his income might be protected from D. I'm afraid to face this reality when I'm not even unpacked yet.
I can't imagine you'll end up getting less support than now though, right? So you really have nothing to lose, but potentially you could have a little or a lot to gain.
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2) This will push him to file for D.
How so? You might end up in a situation where YOU have to push D through to get the extra support, but I don't see how you talking to a L would impact whether he bothers with it or not.
I never gave up on it, just eventually came to realize I was clinging to something that no longer existed! It took over a year to figure that out, and another year to finally push for D myself.
Makes sense.
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I can't imagine you'll end up getting less support than now though, right? So you really have nothing to lose, but potentially you could have a little or a lot to gain.
Without support I'm at the federal poverty level. I'll need to move in a year but I'm prepared to live on what he's paying me now yes.
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How so? You might end up in a situation where YOU have to push D through to get the extra support, but I don't see how you talking to a L would impact whether he bothers with it or not.
He was going to file in April but stopped. It was either money, he got overwhelmed or he has doubts (temporary I'm sure). Our D will be super easy once support is decided. A separation agreement solves every hold off but doubts.
Two weeks in the new place and we are all struggling. S19 is unhappy, D17 is miserable and I’m dragging. We are all angry.
WAH is making S19 help him move/clean and he’s pissed
I got D17 a therapy appt through EAP. Can’t afford anything else and might have to give up therapy myself. D17 is sad I’ve never seen her like this. Still smiling but I know her. Called her on it and she admitted she’s doing awful.
kas is D17 still in school? Sometimes the school has counselors she could see.
Has S19 thought about his own future? Maybe he could apply to a college and start to focus on his life to get his mind off of WAH.
I believe when these things happen to older children, they almost have to apply the principles of DB themselves. Both of them need to GAL immediately and start to work on themselves. It is how we survive the abandonment and destruction of the marriage and I think it is how older children can survive the annihilation of the family.
I hope that you can get the financial support you will need kas. Nothing worse than going through the emotional horror of all of this and then having to worry how you will meet all your financial obligations.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
I hope someone answers this. Do I need to get a temporary support agreement? He's been paying child support and my rent but now I'm on my own. I asked how much he wanted to pay going forward and it's an attorney answer so I didn't reply.
He's got unearned income that I am not entitled to (my attorney says it's up to the judge) but I'm pretty sure it at least counts towards child support.
I feel ridiculous going before the judge over a few hundred dollars and I could end up with less.
He's been paying child support and my rent but now I'm on my own.
What does that mean--has he stopped paying you?
Originally Posted by kas99
I asked how much he wanted to pay going forward and it's an attorney answer so I didn't reply.
What's an "attorney answer"?
Originally Posted by kas99
Do I need to get a temporary support agreement?
Usually spouses write-up and sign some sort of temporary agreement, e.g., "From 11/01 2019 to 2/01 2020 I will pay X dollars on the Yth day of the month. If not paid on-time, a penalty of Z per day is owed." Does your half of your shared savings cover 2-3 months? If no, it sounds stressful waiting and hoping for a check.
I'd want to ensure I was at least safe while working on a longer-term agreement.
I feel ridiculous going before the judge over a few hundred dollars and I could end up with less.
If that's your goal--to gamble on support going up or down a little, that's silly! If your goal is to ensure you get support continuously so you're safe, that's not silly, and may be worth getting a bit less.
Edit: As Rooskers says, your attorney can tell you the normal path. Your approach so far sounds unusually informal for the low trust and high financial dependency you have with your ex.
kas do you have a lawyer? These are all questions you should be asking a lawyer because it will be different in each state. For example, in Massachusetts alimony and child support are figured out using a set formula but in Oregon only child support is found using a formula. In many states they require mediation for alimony and if that doesn't work the judge will decide.
A temporary support agreement would be helpful to protect you. Again your lawyer should be answering these questions.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
He's still paying me child support but back in May (when he was going to file) he agreed to pay more once I moved out, said I couldn't make it on child support alone but that’s where I’m at.
I'd like to read more into this thinking he still has hope and that this is a "temporary" separation (less than 3 years) because we went from mediation talks to what sounded like an "I need time" separation even after he said he was "done". He's a good man (still) so why would he put me in this financial situation permanently? Go ahead and laugh at how naive I am.
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What's an "attorney answer"?
When he said I couldn't make it on child support alone he gave me a "starting point" number so when he cancelled the lease I emailed him for an exact amount and much to my surprise he said child support only aka an "attorney answer". I didn't respond despite him pushing the kids to get me to.
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Does your half of your shared savings cover 2-3 months? If no, it sounds stressful waiting and hoping for a check.
Barring an emergency I can live very comfortably for a year on my savings (and child support), 2 years if I count pennies. My plan is to live on rice and beans - leave my savings alone as much as humanly possible.
He's a good man (still) so why would he put me in this financial situation permanently? Go ahead and laugh at how naive I am.
His motives don't matter in making a decision, only whether he's offering what the court considers fair or no. I wouldn't expect "child support only" to be your expected court outcome.
If you're entitled to more support (e.g., child support + alimony), can ask your attorney to take steps to get at-guidelines temporary support next month? This could be as simple as her e-mailing his attorney and saying, "Look, either your client agrees to pay $X by next week or I'll file an emergency motion for $X through the court and I'll get it and we'll split fees." That's how my partner and I resolved disputes. When the outcome is obvious, both attorneys can plainly see that, and no need to argue about it.
If you're not entitled to more support, make peace with the reality for now.
PS - Is your lawyer okay with you directly sending him financial questions?! Mine wouldn't be.
I probably just did the D work for him by completing the financial disclosure form (I handle the finances) since alimony is all there is to negotiate.
I have to make decisions as if he’s filed correct? The longer I survive on child support alone the more he can prove I don’t need it.
FWIW I’m not asking for much more. I am the reason he left so guilt alone would stop me from “taking him to the cleaners”. WAH accused me of this until he saw my very reasonable but highly frugal post divorce budget.
Life isn't being very kind to WAH. None of his friends are helping him move, still working 80 hours a week to pay for S, , he doesn't have appliances, is drinking, neighbors are loud, eats out a lot, he's got a lot of stuff and no where to put it, his house smells like wet dog and smoke. He wonders how I moved out so fast but unlike him I had help, lots of it. He took this week off to get moved but it's slow going and he still has to clean too.
These things used to give me hope but now I realize he's high on adrenaline which is heady stuff. I spent 12-18 months in that place when my career took off. It was a rush, the constant phone calls, everyone needing me, wanting me, the raises, the accolades, the power, etc. Loved it.
Back to work...I want to think about why this ended for me.
WAH has plans for all this to end. He's going to quit (eventually) his 2nd job once he pays everything off. I'm thinking this will take at least 4 months which pushes us to a year separated by then.
I've read that likely WAH thrives on this, that he loves it much like I did at work. I, the LBS, held him back from being all that he could be (true). That feeling of success and accomplishment feels wonderful. He hasn't had this in oh forever.
When I was in that place I got sick of it when the high of the new job wore off. What was once fun and exciting became drudgery. Working 12 hours a day made me feel important but later I just wanted to go home and watch tv.
Way too much focus on your WAH. Waste of time speculating.
I moved 2 weeks ago, it’s a setback. At 5pm today I felt this weird, can’t even describe it acceptance. I’ve felt this way before I just can’t get it to stick. In that moment I stop trying to control everything and I accept. I then make decisions based on reality not wishful thinking. I can’t afford therapy so I canceled today’s session. This one little thing signifies I’m accepting my reality. Baby steps.
I have a very understandable boss (grateful) so I took the morning off to just sit in quiet. No kids, no technology, no work, just total quiet. Stayed in my room the whole time. I napped, did some soul searching and worked on getting my head back on straight. 6 hours of nothing.
I get these divorce recovery emails and the one I got today asked the question "which part of the breakup hurts the most?" I knew the answer in 2 minutes. I no longer have anyone to take responsibility for my happiness. Ouch.
I'm getting better though because I'm no longer tempted to find another man to rescue me. I never thought I'd feel this way....ever.
I can’t afford therapy so I canceled today’s session. This one little thing signifies I’m accepting my reality. Baby steps.
Therapy is expensive and poorly covered by insurance and if you can't afford it... you can't afford it. I've been in that boat myself and can sympathize.
That said, i wouldn't necessarily be in a hurry to abandon that type of safety blanket, particularly if you have found it helpful in the past and if you can still find some way to get that support, perhaps elsewhere(?) Do you have a friend, preferably another woman, whom you trust and with whom you are close that you could confide in and discuss some of these things? It made a huge, huge, HUGE difference in my mindset and my ability to cope and get through the rough periods (and they were very rough) and to start focusing on myself and moving forward when i reconnected with an old friend who was also going through a painful breakup very similar in genesis to my own. Just to have a friendly ear to talk to...
Don't know if you are a person of faith (or even if not if you would consider that approach-- attend a service or two, try to find a warm and inviting community and maybe a friendly face) but most churches offer some level of counseling services and they are often free or very inexpensive. This was also an avenue that was very, very helpful for me as i went about picking up the pieces, rediscovering myself, and moving forward. I had a pretty good faith-based foundation to begin with, so it was somewhat easy for me to go in that direction when the SHTF, but, even if you are not so grounded, there are a lot of congregations out there, particularly non-denominational ones, that are extremely warm, non-judgmental, and eager and welcoming to have you there even if you are not a believer. Believe it or not there are quite a few churches out there that are truly primarily interested in helping people, even if you are not interested in "joining" or "believing" (though they would obviously not mind if you did that too). I found such a place-- evangelical, well outside of my comfort zone (I have been Catholic for most of my adult life and staid protestant before that) but very open and inviting and with no pressure to join or even "be" a certain way-- during my own ordeal, and it was one of the cornerstone's of me turning things around personally. Anyway, just a thought.
As always, we're all always "here" for you on this board! Hang in there! Praying for the best for you!
Last edited by hoosjim; 10/23/1908:12 PM.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
That is great-- sit in that feeling-- YOU are strong and are 100% capable of bringing happiness into your own life, for you and your kids.
Haven't made it to the part where I think I can make myself happy but I can cross "men" off my list of options. lol
I get that one else can make me happy, that no one is coming to rescue me, that I am responsible for my own life, I get all this what I don't get is what exactly do I do now? I know the answer of course I just don't like it.
Are there little tiny things you can do for yourself that you know you will enjoy? Like a favorite food, trashy novel or escapist movie? Do something silly and fun with your kids like play a board game (maybe teenagers won't think that is too cool, LOL) or make cookies or something together? You could have mini-goals of just being able to relax and get your mind off things for an hour or two-- you don't need to figure out the meaning of life today! Baby steps towards learning how to care for yourself.
And I agree with hoosjim-- being able to talk to someone is important.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Therapy is expensive and poorly covered by insurance and if you can't afford it... you can't afford it. I've been in that boat myself and can sympathize.
I have great insurance and my teens are insisting I stay in my support group. They'd rather cut back somewhere else so I can keep going. Their stance is they need me to keep it together and they say the group helps.
I'm scared. What if my car breaks down again? What if I get sick? Can I cut my food costs by 50%? How much will it cost me to get divorced? Will WAH be fair or will he fight me over lifetime alimony (long marriage/SAHM)?
I rented a house near my estranged mother (20 years) thought it meant we'd reconcile and I wouldn't have to be alone. That didn't happen but this morning I realized it means I'm healing.
I contacted my mother and we emailed for 2 days. Once when she didn't answer right away I sent this what can only be described as a needy, desperate message. I offered to sell my soul for her love and she took me up on it.
Within hours I knew I was about to jump off into yet another painful, codependent relationship. I knew I cared more than she did and if I continued I would get hurt so I stopped.
This type thing is what I have done with my parents, my friends and men. This time I didn't do it, didn't want to do it. Never thought I'd feel this way ever either.
S19 is taking psychology in college and he says the pain of D is worse than a death. I can see that because while both are painful one was a choice which makes it more devastating.
When a loved one goes missing and presumed dead well meaning people try to convince them to "let go" and "move on" but they can't unless it's truly over or until they are ready to give up.
On separation, some sites say give up hope and others say people give up too soon. My WAH left 7 months ago and I beat myself up for having hope like I'm doing this wrong. I can move on and let go (GAL, detach, etc.) but I can't give up....not yet. I read stories here and unless it's truly over (D) people seem to take 1.5-2 years to give up.
I'm going to stop feeling ashamed for still having hope 7 months out. I'll probably feel stupid later but for now this is where I am.
No one is telling you to give up. In fact I am curious what giving up means to you?
You have to move forward and do what’s best for you and your children. My concern when I read your posts is that you use your children as pawns in the process.
No one is telling you to give up. In fact I am curious what giving up means to you?
Giving up means no hope. I have hope. It's years out but it's hope.
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You have to move forward and do what’s best for you and your children. My concern when I read your posts is that you use your children as pawns in the process.
Some of your posts have stung. I'm strong enough to take the hit yes but is it too much to ask for just a tiny bit of compassion/understanding from you?
I will be as honest as I can and I'm not making excuses I'm simply explaining. Childhood trauma has left many scars one of which is fear of abandonment. I started taking a new med after he left which has given me the mental capacity to make lasting change but it's not a quick fix (I wish). I'm also in a trauma type support group.
Yes I have used my kids as pawns (so has WAH). My IC knows the good, the bad and the ugly. I've held nothing back. She says I've come a long way in terms of doing anything manipulative to try and get him back. But lets be honest it didn't work and it's never going to work. I was naive and stupid for thinking it would. He's not coming back for them or money. He'd rather live in a cardboard box, penniless away from his kids than with me.
If (big If) he comes back it will be when I am safe, when I am healed, when I am whole and if he is still available. If he comes back it will be for me and me alone. He may never come back. Want to know why I didn't want to accept this truth? Means I'd have to actually FEEL the pain. Would be so much easier (on me) if he just came back with minimal effort on my part.
That said we are a family divided and I don't think it will be fixed anytime soon. I've done damage. WAH has done damage. It's a huge mess. This separation has done a number on all of us WAH included. To further complicate things to heal and get whole I have to stay NC therefore I have to parallel parent. I CANNOT get better with him in my life. That is my truth. I'm not just getting better for him I'm getting better for my kids as well. They need me to be what is it "lighthouse" while WAH works 80 hours a week and goes on his own journey away from me/us.
This turned into a book and I can't explain where we all are as a family in 5 paragraphs. It's been 7 months and we (WAH, me and our kids) are all doing the best we can even if our best isn't very good.
I am sorry my posts have made you feel that way. I am a very direct poster so if it makes you feel uncomfortable I will not post on your thread anymore. I know that this is a difficult situation for everyone involved as I have been through the entire process. It is troubling to me when children who are involved get stuck in the middle because the parents can’t put their differences aside and be amicable at least when it comes to the kids. One of my best friends had that happen to him and it still effects him to this day.
Ironically I just saw his parents together in the grocery store together again after being apart 35 years. So there is always hope!
I am sorry my posts have made you feel that way. I am a very direct poster so if it makes you feel uncomfortable I will not post on your thread anymore.
Please keep posting. We are just having a conversation that's all. I'm fine. I will ask for what I need when I need it. Sometimes I want bluntness and sometimes I need a virtual hug. Today it's a hug day.
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I know that this is a difficult situation for everyone involved as I have been through the entire process. It is troubling to me when children who are involved get stuck in the middle because the parents can’t put their differences aside and be amicable at least when it comes to the kids. One of my best friends had that happen to him and it still effects him to this day.
Let me tell you WAH's part in this. He wanted me to fail (kids confirm this). The script was since I'm mentally ill I was supposed crash and be institutionalized (exaggerating) while he rode off into the sunset with both his kids and his money. S19 told me last night that WAH is still waiting for me to fail. Due to my issues with men he expects me to have someone new moved in before he has to make one court ordered alimony payment. He didn't expect me to get better (neither did I or the kids).
We can't be amicable so that is why we parallel parent.
I'm no stranger to things happening to happening in childhood and having it affect you later as an adult. I'm 53 years old and I'm still not over what my parents did to me. Thing is I know my parents did the best they could. I haven't forgotten but I have forgiven.
Ok K I will stay with you. He’s definitely not going to like you thriving because all WW imagine the LBS waiting around wallowing in their misery forever.
Yep I’m there with you. Raised by narcissist (f) and an avoidant (m). Actually same for my ex accept the roles were opposite. Not the greatest role models as we set out on our life together. I spent quite along time blaming this on my father (at least part of it). Until one day I realized I’m a grown man who made his own choices and decisions (mistakes). I also realized they did the best they could based on their past.
Now what better way to show your H your getting/got your $hit together then putting your differences aside and coparenting through email.
S19 appears to be okay. He goes back and forth between us. D17 says she's fine at home but wants counseling due to social anxiety that was there before WAH left (I didn't know). She says she angrier at WAH than I am (I'm sad not angry). I'm not the reason she stopped talking to him. He yelled at her quite a bit after he first left for daring to mention my name. S19 and D14 learned to be quiet but D17 isn't a quiet kid. He hurt D17 pretty bad. She will forgive him it's just going to take time. I've tried to talk her into talking to him again but she says no. Go read rooskers thread and you'll see how this works with teens when parents act badly.
WAH is clinging to D14 and my mothering gut tells me my best course of action is to back off and let this play itself out. WAH hasn't lived with any of our kids for 7 months. He already has a relationship with S19 so he set his sights on D14 who can easily be bought. She wants to live with me but won't abandon him. I can respect that.
It's only been 2 weeks so I'm not seriously concerned about her.....yet.
Ok K I will stay with you. He’s definitely not going to like you thriving because all WW imagine the LBS waiting around wallowing in their misery forever.
S19 says WAH has convinced himself that I am not better. I don't believe this of course he knows. My former, unmedicated crazy self would not have the self control I have now. After 30 years my WAH knows me better than anyone.
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Yep I’m there with you. Raised by narcissist (f) and an avoidant (m). Actually same for my ex accept the roles were opposite. Not the greatest role models as we set out on our life together. I spent quite along time blaming this on my father (at least part of it). Until one day I realized I’m a grown man who made his own choices and decisions (mistakes). I also realized they did the best they could based on their past.
Same. Narcissist father, avoidant mother - WAH's father was detached and mean (not narcissistic) his mother was avoidant. All our parents were neglectful.
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Now what better way to show your H your getting/got your $hit together then putting your differences aside and coparenting through email.
I'm not ready. Over the weekend S19 had WAH on speaker phone and I ran from the room (discreetly). I can't see him. I can't hear his voice.
I can email but honestly what would I say that he doesn't already know? He talks to the kids directly.
Know that feeling when you put money in a slot machine? You know you won't win anything but your brain says it "could" happen. This is how I feel about my chances to reconcile. I have my own place, been completely NC for 3 months, and he's made it crystal clear that he is "done". All I've seen is anger and he makes me feel like pond scum hence the NC.
An afternoon of mediation is all it would take to get divorced. We own nothing and our kids are teens. His plan was to file in May but didn't. The kids and I planted a seed of doubt (new medication) but I surmise he decided to save more money. I figure he will file in the next 6 months or so once he gets settled and pays everything off. This is where my hope is. Slim to none.
I have my own place, been completely NC for 3 months, and he's made it crystal clear that he is "done". All I've seen is anger and he makes me feel like pond scum hence the NC.
Hi Kas, you've described many actions from your WAH that are unlikely to come from a place of anger, e.g. letting you keep his parents' heirloom furniture and letting you use his discount membership.
Originally Posted by "kas99"
So WAH bought me a new tire how nice. So now he fixes my car? Sarcasm.
Even if his actions trigger your anger.
Originally Posted by "kas99"
I figure he will file in the next 6 months or so once he gets settled and pays everything off.
He may never file. He's already got his separation and it's unclear how filing would make his life easier. If/when filing becomes important to you, you can take action and drive it through.
Originally Posted by "kas99"
This is where my hope is. Slim to none.
It [censored] we can't go back in time--e.g., 'future you' tell 'past you' which medicine to take to get better. You have your kids this weekend and your IC and group say you're making progress. Take care!
Yes recon chances are very low. Divorce is likely. He will probably file at some point. It's ugly business, no doubt about it. So what do you do? Go about setting up your life without him. Focus on you and the kids. Make the best of what you have. A couple of weeks ago you were despondent because you had such a horrible, tiny, nasty, undesirable place to live while he had a mansion. Now it turns out his place is pretty seedy, unkempt, in a bad area and he's never there while your place cleaned up quite nicely and is starting to feel like a home. So there you go, you turned it around. Do that with everything else in your life too!
Hi Kas, you've described many actions from your WAH that are unlikely to come from a place of anger, e.g. letting you keep his parents' heirloom furniture and letting you use his discount membership.
True but I figured it out. He's angry because I controlled and disrespected him. By going NC I showed respect. He can now give freely because he knows I won't take it, won't use it, won't give it back if he's already given it, and most importantly I don't acknowledge it. I know my place in his life and I honor it.
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He may never file. He's already got his separation and it's unclear filing would make his life easier. If/when filing becomes important to you, you can take action and drive it through.
I don't think its about making his life easier its about doing the right thing. He won't date until the divorce is final and the words plan B aren't in his vocabulary. Yes he is that guy.
He may never file. He's already got his separation and it's unclear how filing would make his life easier.
You don't read a lot of stories like mine. I know because I've read everything. There is you and one other one here I've read. Anyway I've read many of your replies to other people. Most of your posts say you were done but there are others where you say your Ex had a chance, a small chance but a chance nonetheless. I get the impression that while your ex said she'd go to counseling those were just words that weren't backed up by much of anything action wise. You acknowledged starting over stinks but going back wasn't an option either unless she changed A LOT.
Now where your story, mine and the other one differs is you started dating. From what I can tell dating is a game changer for a lot of these stories. Was reading one those quotes threads and this guy was piecing but it was obvious she was looking for a soft place to land and wanted to keep him solidly in plan B. Thankfully he had already moved on so he was okay when she finally filed 2.5 years later.
The other one here that is almost identical to mine neither of them dated. He left her for the same reason my WAH left. Her H never filed and never dated. Him leaving was a huge wake up call and she got better I mean truly better. She gave up 2.5 years after he left and was okay by then as most LBS's are. He ended up coming back 4 years after he left and even reading her piecing story you can tell she was whole. Her words didn't have that needy/omg I hope I don't screw this up tone that many of the piecing stories have. She was very nonchalant about the whole thing even when posters clung to her every word looking for hope she was vague. I mean she answered the questions yes but it was more yoda and zen the kind of replies desperate people hate. We all want quick fixes and she had none because there are none.
I have hope but I also know that WHEN I get whole I won't need him anymore. Make sense?? Right now I need hope to get through the day but WHEN I get whole I won't need that anymore either. If he comes back, if he divorces me, if he files, doesn't file I WILL get whole and this won't matter then either. I do get this but for now....oh my do I love a good hope story.
I have hope but I also know that WHEN I get whole I won't need him anymore. Make sense?? Right now I need hope to get through the day but WHEN I get whole I won't need that anymore either. If he comes back, if he divorces me, if he files, doesn't file I WILL get whole and this won't matter then either.
The ironic thing is that the steps that lead to a possible reconciliation are the same steps that can lead us to never wanting them back again.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Yes recon chances are very low. Divorce is likely. He will probably file at some point. It's ugly business, no doubt about it. So what do you do? Go about setting up your life without him. Focus on you and the kids. Make the best of what you have. A couple of weeks ago you were despondent because you had such a horrible, tiny, nasty, undesirable place to live while he had a mansion. Now it turns out his place is pretty seedy, unkempt, in a bad area and he's never there while your place cleaned up quite nicely and is starting to feel like a home. So there you go, you turned it around. Do that with everything else in your life too!
And you....I read your whole story from start to finish. I think your WAW would have come back eventually as well. She waffled, was torn, there was a 3rd party, she dated, seemed like some MLC thing (likely would have come out of it) and was in no rush to file (key factor in your story). You're the one who started dating, was up for a big promotion and pushed the D though in what less than 2 years? You've also acknowledged that after you'd fully moved on to your supermodel girlfriend you no longer found you ex attractive (typical LBS attitude). Yes you would have rather stayed married but you fit the profile of when your x threw out those temp checks it was too late. Now she's happy. You're happy. You're kids are happy proving once again that everyone here will be okay eventually even me.
<shaking magic eight ball> Will WAH divorce me? Magic eight ball says ask again later. lol
I won’t speak for AS but I think he meant your chance at recon before D is low. He is typically an advocate that recon attempts are highly likely but in most cases the LBS has moved on. Everything in life is about timing and in most cases the timing doesn’t line up.
Have hope but keep moving forward one day at a time.
The ironic thing is that the steps that lead to a possible reconciliation are the same steps that can lead us to never wanting them back again.
I work with mostly women and the comment I get is "they always come back" meaning men. Obviously this isn't true but still. Your ex for example has lost her mind. I'd bet a dinner out that she will eventually circle back around to you. You'll have a momentary lapse in reason of course but you'll come to your senses in a few hours.
It's not that you won't want HER back it's that now you'll hold yourself to a higher standard. Unless she too has grown (not going to happen) she will make you feel BAD and that is what will repel you. Its not your ex as a person it's how she makes you FEEL I think once you can get past this codependent crap you'll never accept less than again.
As I sit here on a dreary, wet Friday afternoon I wonder if my fellow db'ers think my attitude is improving? You of course will have to ignore the pity parties I had for the past 2 weeks or so because I just moved. No fair to hold big events like moving, holidays, anniversaries, etc. against anyone here.
I won’t speak for AS but I think he meant your chance at recon before D is low. He is typically an advocate that recon attempts are highly likely but in most cases the LBS has moved on. Everything in life is about timing and in most cases the timing doesn’t line up.
Have hope but keep moving forward one day at a time.
Whew......thanks for this. Seriously.
I thought AS had given up on me. lol
I'm not ready for anyone to give up on me yet. I need encouragement as I try to heal from a lifetime of codependency. I hold onto hope like a security blanket. I will let it go just not today.
There was a well written review on amazon for DB book. He said the book didn't save his marriage but it did help him move on. Said many LBS's will get the chance to reconcile (if they want it). Said his Ex came back 16 months after the D was final. He laughed and said no.
You'll have a momentary lapse in reason of course but you'll come to your senses in a few hours. It's not that you won't want HER back it's that now you'll hold yourself to a higher standard.
I would have agreed with you 2 months ago but since then she emotionally and mentally abused D13 to the point D13 has thought about suicide. I find it interesting how much I was willing to put up with especially after her first affair. Even after the second BD I was most likely willing to put up with a lot. When she hurt D13 it ended completely. I will definitely let go of the anger and hurt caused by the affairs and walking away, but it is going to take a lot to let go of the pain she is putting D13 through.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Dad lectured me about not getting fat. Mom had me treated for anorexia. I became a gym rat and I ate my feelings. I stayed thin for decades. I then had a mental breakdown, stopped exercising and gave in to the binging. I gained 45 pounds before learning to starve myself in between binges.
Then came the BD and I couldn't keep food down. I felt in control as I watched the pounds just melt off. Everyone around me was concerned (I looked sick) so I started eating again (some). I nibbled on food and slowly got better.
It's been 7 months, I'm not dieting, not exercising, have no idea how much I weigh and I'm thin. If you've ever read any of Geneen Roths books this is how I (accidentally) did it. I'm FREE.
Side note - want to cry. S19 is working and D17 just left to go over to WAHs house to help decorate for D14's birthday party. Later D17 is spending the night with a friend. D17 showed me a video of one of our cats who is sick and in the background I could see WAH's living room. It's our old living room and this is stupid because he got half of it and I got the other. I got the new couches (he has the old ones) and he got the coffee tables.
As I type this out I'm calming down. These things trigger a feeling that I've lost everything which isn't true. I have 2 of my kids full time, I have a cute house, and unlike WAH I don't have to work 80 hours a week. So while he is working today I'm sitting here doing absolutely nothing.
So while he is working today I'm sitting here doing absolutely nothing.
Do you ever hope you reach the point where this sentence just says "I'm sitting here doing absolutely nothing and that is ok by me." You would't be thinking of WAH or worried about life but just sitting there and being "ok".
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Ok back to talking about change. I've been studying psychology as a hobby for 20 years. I have enough knowledge to BE a therapist I just couldn't apply it to my own life until I got my mental illness symptoms under control (I do now).
I don't believe in willpower. I look back at my grandparents who never measured their food, read a self help book and their therapy came from church on Sundays. GAL came naturally to them.
When did GAL become so hard (for me)? My theory is I can GAL via willpower but it won't be real, won't be authentic until I solve the wound that led me here. I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money that I'm avoiding my feelings.....STILL. I've made some authentic changes since the BD but are they enough to make him want to come home? Absolutely not.
Do you ever hope you reach the point where this sentence just says "I'm sitting here doing absolutely nothing and that is ok by me." You would't be thinking of WAH or worried about life but just sitting there and being "ok".
I read everything I can get my hands on and there are experts out there who have studied breakups/divorce extensively. I know I will reach that point and figure I'm about halfway there which is about right. Half of the time I can sit here and not think about him. The timeline is around 12-14 months or so depending on how hard I work to move on.
I'm 7 months out of a 30 year relationship, grateful I have my kids, a family to care for. I'm doing great all things considering. If I'm doing this well then I wonder where I will be in another 7 months.
I don't believe in willpower. My theory is I can GAL via willpower but it won't be real, won't be authentic until I solve the wound that led me here. I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money that I'm avoiding my feelings.....STILL.
Hi Kas,
The willpower--e.g., the strong impetus to change--only has to get you far enough to build a habit. I'm not succeeding at GAL now, but when I have, it felt like I was faking it for a short time and then it became real. I mean to say you can pursue GAL at the same time you're working out your feelings--it doesn't have to be one then the other. Anyway, time to begin ordering Halloween costumes, organizing and decorating my place, etc. to be that amazing holiday parent my kids knew me to be in the past before I got SO focused on this relationship. Hope you have a great day, too with the kids in your home. ((Hugs))
The willpower--e.g., the strong impetus to change--only has to get you far enough to build a habit. I'm not succeeding at GAL now, but when I have, it felt like I was faking it for a short time and then it became real. I mean to say you can pursue GAL at the same time you're working out your feelings--it doesn't have to be one then the other
I'm pondering this.
On men and my weight I had to stop long enough to find freedom. 4 months. Been trying to beat these two demons my adult life and I kick them in 4 months? Seriously??? lol I have read that being a LBS can be a catalyst to lighting fast change if you embrace this as an opportunity. Some LBS have done in months what other people took years to accomplish. GAL is deciding what I want right? Then committing to it until change happens?
My house has ants. Yesterday I did nothing (I regret this today) and S19 (who worked late last night) fusses at me today that I need to stay on top of the dishes. One day of neglecting the kitchen and I have ants.
Yesterday I thought I'm okay being a complete and total slob/couch potato. It's just ONE day right? Shhhhh don't tell WAH but then S19 brings me down to reality. He's watches everything I do and calls me on it. He's aspergers so he calls it like he sees it. Too negative? Laundry piling up? Didn't buy groceries? Ate out when I can't afford it? He calmly points out my shortcomings and rest assured WAH will know. He's not a harsh critic but thinks I should be on top of basic chores. He's right. Sigh.
I continue to read about change and motivation. My mistake is all too often I’m changing for someone or something else. I’m changing based on an outward motivator which isn’t long lasting. I need to decide who I want to be, who I used to be, who I am now. Do I want to be someone who is on top of things or not? I don’t even know isn’t that crazy? What I know for sure is that tonight I am ok.
And you....I read your whole story from start to finish. I think your WAW would have come back eventually as well.
I really, truly thought that for a long time. I was convinced we would recon. But other than the Retrouvaille thing there has never been one tiny hint that she ever second-guessed leaving. From what I can tell she is very happy living alone and doing her own thing. I got to know her mother pretty well and her mother went through something very similar where later in life she embraced her independence and no longer wanted/ needed a relationship (in her case her H passed away, she didn't leave him, but she was kind of checking out by then anyway). So there might be an inherited pattern there. Anyway I now do not believe recon was ever a possibility. But I also often say "never say never" because who knows, she might yet some day temperature check me on that. I've seen it happen many years after D.
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She waffled, was torn, there was a 3rd party, she dated, seemed like some MLC thing (likely would have come out of it) and was in no rush to file (key factor in your story). You're the one who started dating, was up for a big promotion and pushed the D though in what less than 2 years?
Right, it wasn't just a promotion though, it was buying half a company. So things could have gotten very messy if I had done that before the D and then the D happened soon after. She had already prepared the D paperwork by then but hadn't filed it, so I sort of "pushed it through" but really it was just me asking her to go ahead and file and she did.
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You've also acknowledged that after you'd fully moved on to your supermodel girlfriend you no longer found you ex attractive (typical LBS attitude).
I'm not sure which GF you mean, my current one is the one that does modeling but I was dating someone else when going through D. But neither of them were why I no longer found my XW attractive. My XW was a beautiful person inside, that is what I was drawn to originally and why I fell in love with her. She wasn't physically ugly by any means but not what most would call "beautiful", and had kind of an average build. But none of that mattered to me, I was really drawn to who she was as a person. I loved her and she loved me and it was a beautiful thing. When she quit loving me I still loved her, and that resulted in a lot of pain and anguish. But it's really hard to keep loving someone who doesn't love you back so at some point the pain receded and so did the love, and it was then that I realized that the person she was that I had loved, was gone. The shell was still there but the person that used to be in it was gone. And she's still gone. When I sit here now typing this and think of my wife 20 years ago, oh man she was something else. My stomach still gets fluttery thinking about her. But she's gone, and that still makes me sad. The woman that replaced her is kind and a great mother and I respect her and even like her. But do I love her and/or wish I was married to her? No.
I'm just explaining all of this because it sounds like you are painting me as some superficial person that only cares about physical beauty, and that I dumped my XW to date some young "hottie". That's not what happened at all though. It was over, my old W was gone, and I had to move on. My current GF is physically attractive but I am in love with her because of who she is inside, she is a very sweet, loving person that I really enjoy spending time with.
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Now she's happy. You're happy. You're kids are happy proving once again that everyone here will be okay eventually even me.
I have happy times, and sad times, and angry times, and frustrating times. So does my XW, so do my kids. That's life. Life kicks you down, you get back up. Over and over. Sometimes life just pushes you over, and sometimes it knocks your legs out and kicks you in the ribs for good measure. We can't control that, we can only control our reaction to it.
Originally Posted by LH19
I won’t speak for AS but I think he meant your chance at recon before D is low. He is typically an advocate that recon attempts are highly likely but in most cases the LBS has moved on. Everything in life is about timing and in most cases the timing doesn’t line up.
Yes, exactly. Chances of recon are low, but what I failed to mention is I believe it's because when the opportunity FINALLY presents itself, it's the LBS that says "no".
I'm just explaining all of this because it sounds like you are painting me as some superficial person
When I say negative things it's because it's IN me, I'm the one with the problem. I'm the one struggling. I'm trying to stop being negative and I'm becoming more aware. That said I got upset (stupid I know) when you said my chances were low.
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Yes, exactly. Chances of recon are low, but what I failed to mention is I believe it's because when the opportunity FINALLY presents itself, it's the LBS that says "no".
I no longer have the actual symptoms of mental illness I do have wounds from my childhood. When I first came here I was reassured me that he "could" come back and yes likely by the time that happened I would be the one that said "no". I want reassurance daily (or at least not told D is eminent) but that needs to stop. I need to learn how to reassure myself.
It's funny you posted this because I've found I'm happier when I read things (books, blogs) that reassure me that if he does come back i will either be over him or I'll be the one that says no. Over the weekend every time I felt down I'd go read something positive divorce related or just positivity in general. Worked like a charm.
There is this one blog that has a lot of articles about break-ups/divorces. It has statistics, time lines, articles that reassure, that comfort, and it gives specific tips on how to improve yourself. I read it a lot.
I'm not a fan of changing for WAH because I know if I do I will set myself up to be disappointed when it doesn't work. I've also read lots of WAS's actual stories (other boards) and time and time again they say they want the LBS to change for themselves. I see their point if you change for someone else the chances of it being permanent are slim.
As I dig deep I'm finding I don't want to change, not really. I want the quick fix of getting him back yes but that's it. On that blog they talk about this. They suggest asking a bunch of "why" questions to get to the root problem and well I did. Comes back to feelings surrounding my childhood. I don't want to FEEL anything painful so it's easier to distract with the internet, tv, etc. When I was a teen I did this. I'd lock myself in my room avoiding my life and if I did come out I had to drink, date lots of men, work a lot, something. It's how I coped. Okay this I can work with.
Triggers: As I maintain strict NC the triggers are lessening. I'd been looking forward to school ending (last May) because I knew I wouldn't have to see or talk to him until we moved.
Today I went to forward my mail online and saw that he'd already moved his (trigger). I thought he did this months ago. See I handled all the paperwork so everything came to my email address. Every time he changed something I was notified and he spent the first 30 days erasing me from his life. It was hurtful because he changed everything down to his library card. I thought it was part of the "plan" to D me asap but my IC says it was an act of anger. He wanted to hurt me.
The good news is that he ripped it off like a band aid which has ultimately made NC easier and I've read anger is better than indifference. Had a good friend who divorced her H and she was indifferent so I see the contrast. If...the big IF we ever reconcile I will never, ever, ever handle his paperwork again.
Now I shouldn't have to see or talk to him unless it's some brief email re: kids or D. Our kids don't do anything outside of school like sports so the next time we will have a joint kid thing will be when D17 graduates high school in May 2021. I'm thinking I'll be over him by then. lol
Last edited by job; 10/28/1907:12 PM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I've managed to let a lot of it go since BD, S and D. Codependency, people say it like it's a dirty word but marriage IS codependency. Why would anyone ever get married if they didn't want on some level to be codependent, to be a team? So yes we were codependent, and now we have to learn not to be. But at the same time we shouldn't try to carry the world around on our shoulders, we SHOULD try to depend on others on some level, our kids for example. And they in turn depend on us for things. 
