This is the first time I have reached out to a community for help in regards to my situation so please bear with me and accept my apologies if it becomes a ramble.
We have been married 5 years this October. We began having problems around the beginning May 2019 with my wife not coming home after work, staying with "friends" because she drank too much, etc. I stood my ground and said that this will not be tolerated and we continued to live together for a few weeks. We had a huge blowout in regards to our intimacy and lack thereof. I was under extreme pressure from work, coupled with the problems in the marriage. On May 5th (cinco de mayo) I had quite a few margaritas at dinner and we got into an argument on the way home. Once home I drank more (bad idea) and left the house. I wound up getting into an accident, totaling my truck, charged with DUI and arrested. Once I got out I came home and obviously she was upset with my actions. I nearly killed myself over drinking to escape our problems. A few days later I found out that she was house hunting and had purchased a trailer by her mothers about 45 minutes away from our current home. I became enraged again because she had not told me this and I had no clue she was working on an exit from the home. We finally settled down and agreed to a 6 month separation so that I could work on my issues with alcohol and other vices which were causing problems. I helped her get settled into the new place and helped to move things from the home that we weren't using so she could have them there etc. In this time we never truly "separated" in the sense of the word. She would still come home and stay the night etc. I made changes in my behavior and started seeing our counselor on an individual basis to work on my issues. I am happy to say that in the last 5 months I have made great strides and been sober since. I also drastically changed the way I treated my wife when she was around, to show that I was making honest changes in myself to benefit us all. (We have a 5 year old daughter)
Fast forward a little. I had been communicating with our counselor and he began to press issues and ask questions in regards to how I would deal with infidelity, divorce etc. After much probing he eventually broke down and told me that she was involved in an affair with someone from her work. They had been seeing each other the entire time and even before the agreed trial separation.It basically broke down to the time frame our intimacy fell apart while still living together and before the accident. He stated that it was a physical affair and that she admitted to him that she did not see a future with the AP. While all of this is going on, I had suspicions that something was going on, we have been together nearly 8 years. I know when something is not right. I decided to just let it burn itself and see where it goes. She continued to come around home, stay the night etc and then the next night be with the AP. I finally got my fill of this and confronted her with the evidence I had of the affair and demanded that she stop and work on the marriage or I would file. She adamantly denies the affair taking place, even know in the light of everything. Tells me I am crazy, people are telling me things to start stuff etc. Basic projection and gas lighting traits associated with someone with BPD.She refuses to take medication as in her own words, "it makes me feel weird and if I took it I would just come back home." and I don't want to make a decision based upon medication (even though she NEEDS it) So after not seeing her a few days we began texting again, arguing about the lies shes told etc. Finally I told her that I cannot do this anymore and that if she would not accept her responsibility for her actions then I would file. She said "thats fine" So yesterday I filed although I didn't really want to. I still love her and want to help her with her mental issues but I feel like shes really forcing my hand and trying to control me and the relationship. As a typical BPD relationship, when its good its great and when its bad its REAL bad.
Obviously I want to save the marriage or I wouldn't be here. I filed to take control of the situation and set a clear boundary that her behavior will not be accepted. Have I gone too far? She has not been served yet and I don't want to tell them NOT to serve her because it clearly shows weakness on my part and not following through on the boundary I set. I am so confused, hurt and do not know what to do or how to approach this situation. I hope that someone here and give me a little insight.
Thanks and sorry again, as I look back this was WAY too long for an opening thread. My apologies.
I always advise people here that if they are thinking about filing, then WAIT. Wait a couple of months, and if you tell yourself every day that yes, you want to file and you are OK with D then at the end of two months go ahead and file. But if you have second thoughts during that time then you're not ready.
If you changed your mind then withdraw it. Yes it might make you look weak to her, but if you're not ready then you're not ready. If she asks why then just tell her you decided you needed more time to think about it.
Cadet or Job will be along shortly with a lot of links, read them, they will help! Also pick up DR and read it.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
It basically broke down to the time frame our intimacy fell apart while still living together and before the accident.
Funny how that works, right? But remember there are things you can do in the future to build a better relationship (not necessarily with your W) that doesn't have these problems.
Quote
I still love her and want to help her with her mental issues but I feel like shes really forcing my hand and trying to control me and the relationship.
I guess the question is, are you willing to divorce her over this? My guess is yes because you already filed. Was that done out of principle or desperation?
Anyways, I'm sorry you are here. Read those links and read other situations. Make yourself into a great man and learn/heal/grow as much as you can.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I guess the question is, are you willing to divorce her over this? My guess is yes because you already filed. Was that done out of principle or desperation?
I did it to enforce the boundary and after she stated "its over" but I've heard that before from her. Especially during a manic episode and her lashing out in anger. I have not signed the papers yet as my L is still drafting the dissolution and other necessary paperwork to file. My hope is that the service would shock her into the reality that she could lose me. Plus I'm still so angry over the fact she continues to lie about the affair and try to make me question my own sanity.
So it sounds like you are doing this out of desperation to control the outcome and bring her to her proverbial senses, right?
Are you prepared to be divorced and push this through? You're the one who will have to live with it.
I am because of all the betrayal and lies are mounting up. I was no perfect husband but just tonight she came over to get clothes and stuff she still had here which I boxed up. We talked about things some but she’s still in denial over the affair and is dragging the past up and saying I did this to us and she hasn’t done anything in regards to an affair. I asked her do you plan on punishing me for the my past behavior to deflect from what you are doing now? I’ve lied, you’ve lied, I’ve hurt you and you are hurting me. How much is enough? Time to just let it go and start over anew. She can’t even commit to that. Said she doesn’t even know if she wants to be with her husband. The one who has been faithful this entire time...oh but her affair never did or is going on according to her. Right....
I did break the news that I did meet with my lawyer on Monday and I sent a screenshot of the attachments but not the content so that she knows I’m dead serious about it. She said she doesn’t want to file yet and I’m still in the air honestly because I feel like if I do. It’s going to be the final nail in the coffin and there will be no hope for reconciliation. I asked if she wanted to see the counselor and she refused so I asked her is that because he knows what you were doing and you don’t want to face the consequences and questions regarding your actions? Again she said I haven’t done anything. Which is so frustrating. I’d love to believe my wife but I trust my gut and our therapist as he wouldn’t lie about it. I guess I could roll the ring cameras back and listen in on their session to confirm but I just dint feel right doing so.
I asked her do you plan on punishing me for the my past behavior to deflect from what you are doing now?
It appears that the answer is yes.
Quote
I’ve lied, you’ve lied, I’ve hurt you and you are hurting me. How much is enough? Time to just let it go and start over anew. She can’t even commit to that
That's good logic, but she is not being logical. She is being emotional. The pursuit does not usually work. Read the links on pursuit.
She's obviously going to continue lying about the affair so you'd be best to quit discussing it.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I asked her do you plan on punishing me for the my past behavior to deflect from what you are doing now?
It appears that the answer is yes.
Quote
I’ve lied, you’ve lied, I’ve hurt you and you are hurting me. How much is enough? Time to just let it go and start over anew. She can’t even commit to that
That's good logic, but she is not being logical. She is being emotional. The pursuit does not usually work. Read the links on pursuit.
She's obviously going to continue lying about the affair so you'd be best to quit discussing it.
Agreed and I plan on going dark after tonight’s episode. She knows where I stand and what I want. I have the papers ready and am still debating on filing as I don’t feel we are getting anywhere BUT as I stated before we never truly “separated” per say. She just simply moved out to not be accountable to me for not coming home, working late etc. in hindsight. I’ll definitely read up on the pursuit links.
I appreciate all your advice between my IC suggesting I file to send a message vs what I read and discuss with others I am really torn on what to do. I’m definitely holding off for a bit as we are only around 2 weeks out from me confronting her in regards to the affair.
Quick update. Rolled back the cameras at the house after she left last night and definitely confirmed what the counselor told me about the affair. He asked her about him and whether she was struggling with a decision on the M. She said yes and that the AP is a "good guy" and she feels a connection sexually with him. That sunk my heart into my stomach with a quickness. Also admitted that she had sex with me a few weeks ago to see if she felt anything and said she didn't feel anything and it bothered her. Then she began to complain about our prior sex life, how they can go 4x a day etc. That also just enraged me that much more. Sure, its easy to do that when you're off in fantasy land with zero responsibilities like running the household, cleaning and taking care of our kiddo. That's all been on me since the separation and frankly even before as she made it a point to never be around. Always "working" which I do see as she has two jobs currently but I always knew that when she went MIA via text for 12+ hours. I know what she was doing.
I have decided to go dark upon finding these details, changed the lock codes on the door and garage so she cannot "come and go" as she pleases. She was making trips to the house while I was at work when we were not staying together. So IMO she doesn't live here anymore so she doesn't need access to the house. I don't have a key to the trailer she purchased with "marital funds" she hid from working.
I like the action you are taking. Keep her out of your life. You may not be separated legally, but he moving out if basically separation.
Try not to read into the sex life with OM thing. It's a bunch of BS.
Now that you have the place to yourself, I'd recommend enjoying being able to do whatever you want all the time. It's my biggest regret from last year. You can really go live it up and have a lot of fun.
In the meantime you can continue to consider divorce but I don't think it is something you should pull the trigger on right away unless you are 100% sure that you won't tolerate and an affair and wait around for her to wake up. Take some time to be sure IMO.
Work on your detachment. I'd read those links in Cadet's welcome post throughout the day and keep asking questions.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I am trying to GAL for sure. Though to do since I have physical custody of D5 but we are starting to do more together as just me and her without "mom" involved. I've been so wrapped up in trying to gather evidence and confront her about the A and hoped for a 180 from her. Basically an apology and crawling back saying she would do anything but that was not what went down. The confrontation just put distance between us and she "doesn't want to be around" me. The papers are sitting here on my desk waiting for my signature, I told my lawyer I just wanted to cover my bases in the instance that I do decide to file. I have decided to hold off a bit, at the disdain of my IC, go dark and see what happens for a bit. If she was served these papers, I know its going to cause an explosion on her part with the custody agreement and child support provisional orders. I'm guilty of the "nice guy syndrome" and don't want to rock the boat right now while we are both highly emotional. She stated last night that she doesn't want to file but allegedly has retained counsel due to my threat. IC says thats a complete bluff on her part but they have not spoken since D-day
Tom, very sorry about the disclosure of the A, I know it's a gut-bunch (believe me, I do know!) but at least you know and can quit wondering and spinning scenarios. Also I think you're doing the right thing in giving yourself some more time on the D. In a month you'll know better where you stand.
I would suggest cutting ALL contact with W except for whatever minimum is required for coordinating D's needs. If she texts asking how your day is going, or asking a pointless question, don't reply. She needs to know you are not Plan B and you are not going to be her BFF.
Just journaling what occurred today. When she was here to pick up things the other night the little one mentioned that she had been to church Sunday and had a lot of fun. She asked me if I really went, in which I produced the brochure along with the notes I took during the sermon. When she was leaving she mentioned to the little one that she would see her Thursday. Well Thursday night at our church they have a men’s only ministry. I’ve never attended but after having someone pray with me after service on Sunday, she suggested I check it out and build bonds with strong Christ centered men. So I brought this up to the wife, I said I would like to attend Thursday and check it out. Problem is that they do not offer any child care like they do on Sunday. So I asked the wife if she would pick up the little one from aftercare and they could come to the house while I attend church as she still has things here that she wants to finish getting to her place. She agreed and I thought it was pretty much set in stone until today when she reached out via text and this is the transcript:
Her: So are you still going to that church thing tomorrow ? Me: Yes. It’s every Thursday. Me: I can make alternative arrangements if it conflicts with your schedule. No biggie Her: A convention is in town and my boss asked if I could work . But don’t wanna mess up our plans Me: It’s not a problem. Do what you need to do. Work is more important. Her: No it isn’t . Lol nvmd Me: You can work tomorrow and have D5 Saturday for the fall festival if your mom wants to watch her Saturday night. I can get her before church Sunday. Me: I know seeing and spending time with D5 tomorrow was important to you which is why I suggested Saturday. So you can have the best of both worlds. I’m not being mean or anything Me: You mentioned last week that you needed hours. Just let me know what you decide. Her: The festival is the 12th and 13th Her: I’m just off sat just cause Me: Ok. Whatever you want to do tomorrow is fine. **end of contact**
Did I handle this appropriately as far as going dark and trying to detach? Should I have been more vague and less wordy? Obviously I had to reply as it was based upon our D5 and my intent to have them spend time together while I was trying to GAL and focus on support from fellow church members.
Going dark means no contact at all. You have a kid together so until your girl is an adult you probably aren't going dark on your W.
I think you were too wordy and too eager to let your W off the hook for the help she told you she'd give you. And you tell your W everything you're doing. Your W sees it as peacocking. I suggest being more mysterious so she wonders what you're up to.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Going dark means no contact at all. You have a kid together so until your girl is an adult you probably aren't going dark on your W.
I think you were too wordy and too eager to let your W off the hook for the help she told you she'd give you. And you tell your W everything you're doing. Your W sees it as peacocking. I suggest being more mysterious so she wonders what you're up to.
Thanks for the advice and I’m aware that I’ll never be able to go fully dark on her due to our daughter. This is all new to me and tough to do as I conditioned myself to be fully transparent in an attempt to build trust that I’d lost before her A started.
Ugh. Not going well today with the whole trying to be dark. W called my cell at work and since I assumed it was in regards to our D5 and the plans for her to get her tonight I answered. She wanted to discuss her anxiety she is having after a night of drinking at her job and potentially getting fired due to being there after hours with a trainwreck co-worker who had a ignition interlock on her car already and she was wasted. They both were and were caught on camera and another co worker gave her a heads up that the owner was mad about the entire situation and they both have been pulled off the schedule.
I listened and let her vent as she said she called multiple other people before me and nobody answered, had i known it was about this, I wouldn't have either.
I told her that she has to accept that she cannot help someone who is obviously imploding and she is only going to get caught in the fallout and that she needs to accept that she cannot control this (kinda like I'm trying to accept this whole separation reality we are in currently) Then she mentioned that she did not like being home alone at her trailer etc because she gets lonely and anxiety. Hopefully this is a sign the OM/AP is out of the picture but I told her she needs to take this alone time to explore her life choices and find out these triggers that cause her to feel the way that she is. I told her that she has let people take their own path and accept any consequences that may occur. Kinda like the approach I am trying take with her but I did not let her know that. I just expressed that its a situation like what I went through with the drinking and hitting rock bottom. Making changes in myself because I did not like the person I had become and it took the wreck/separation for me to realize.
Read all the info given here and listen to the more established veterans. Stop giving her advice it doesn't help. If you want to divorce then only let her contact you by email about D and finances. If instead you hope to eventually reconcile then after you answered the phone listen and validate but DON'T give advice.
Last edited by rooskers; 10/03/1906:55 PM.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Read all the info given here and listen to the more established veterans. Stop giving her advice it doesn't help. If you want to divorce then only let her contact you by email about D and finances. If instead you hope to eventually reconcile then after you answered the phone listen and validate but DON'T give advice.
Initially wanted to divorce for sure but had second thoughts after posting here and people telling me to hold off because I am acting off emotion and not rational. I have two books on my doorstep from MWD tonight to dive into. Divorce remedy and healing from infidelity.
Ugh. Not going well today with the whole trying to be dark.
A lot of people misunderstand what going dark means. It means no contact. Zero. Nothing. And it doesn't mean do that for an hour and then text, because if you contact her in an hour or a day or even a week then you didn't truly "go dark". Here's an example of going dark- a buddy of mine's W went rogue WAS on him. Left him, insisted they sell the house and joint business and she moved in with OM. He did what she asked, sold everything and split the proceeds with her and then well and truly went dark. Did not call/text/email or anything else for 2 YEARS. That my friend, is going dark. By the way she started reaching out to him after that and long story short, they've been happily together for 5 years since then. Ovr is right though, it's nearly impossible if you have kids together. You can go "dim" but not truly dark. Going dim means contact is strictly limited to kids and bills.
Quote
I listened and let her vent as she said she called multiple other people before me and nobody answered, had i known it was about this, I wouldn't have either.
So not only are you the lowest priority/ last resort, but she felt inclined to tell you that's how you rate. Next time let it go to voicemail.
Quote
I told her that she has to accept that she cannot help someone who is obviously imploding and she is only going to get caught in the fallout and that she needs to accept that she cannot control this (kinda like I'm trying to accept this whole separation reality we are in currently) Then she mentioned that she did not like being home alone at her trailer etc because she gets lonely and anxiety.
Like Rooskers said, no advice. You're trying to fix her problems for her. If you're going to listen and validate then that's fine, but don't try to fix anything. She doesn't want you to, she just wanted to vent. "That sounds very difficult for you, I am sorry you are struggling."
You all are absolutely correct on going dim as I cannot go completely dark due to our kid being involved. As I stated before I only answered because we had plans for her to pick up the kiddo and that was in the air due to a potential call into work for her. Therefore I assumed it was in regards to that and answered. I didn’t know the context of the call until after I’d already answered unfortunately. When she talked of anxiety I did validate her feelings and know now that I should not have tried to work her through issues and offer up advice but on the same side, I cannot say don’t call me unless it’s to reconcile etc and hang up on her as that will create stress on the co-parenting. **sigh** This is a mess...while I am thankful for our D5 and she’s changed my life, it’s made this whole sitch WAY more complicated. Hard to heal and focus on myself when there is going to be contact due to D5
You all are absolutely correct on going dim as I cannot go completely dark due to our kid being involved. As I stated before I only answered because we had plans for her to pick up the kiddo and that was in the air due to a potential call into work for her. Therefore I assumed it was in regards to that and answered. I didn’t know the context of the call until after I’d already answered unfortunately. When she talked of anxiety I did validate her feelings and know now that I should not have tried to work her through issues and offer up advice but on the same side, I cannot say don’t call me unless it’s to reconcile etc and hang up on her as that will create stress on the co-parenting. **sigh** This is a mess...while I am thankful for our D5 and she’s changed my life, it’s made this whole sitch WAY more complicated. Hard to heal and focus on myself when there is going to be contact due to D5
The best advice I got from someone on this site was to treat your W like she's a grocery store cashier that you're meeting for the first time and making small talk with. My W BD'ed me about 6 weeks ago, she is also having an A. We only text financial or divorce matters (she texts me questions and I answer, no more) and in person when we exchange our S4 I just make small talk like I've never met her before. Trust me in the beginning of this I was unable to do this, but 6 weeks in I find it is getting easier and easier. I still have days I want to scream at the top of my lungs and lay in the fetal position and cry, but I never let her see or know that.
I still have days I want to scream at the top of my lungs and lay in the fetal position and cry, but I never let her see or know that.
I am feeling the same way but try my damnest to stay strong. Its definitely tough when you are used to communicating almost hourly via text and now the phone never lights up. The hardest habit to break has been to stop trying to "see" if she is involved in the A still. I had become so preoccupied with "gathering intel" in regards to her whereabouts and trying to catch her in a lie so that I could bust her head and hope it was a wakeup call. After being here a few days, lots of reading and working with my IC I have accepted that I cannot "fix" her even though I lose progress like I did the other day when she called and I answered regretfully. Now I don't worry about it anymore, her vehicles are still registered to the our martial home and she has not changed her DL to the new place yet, so I would be notified if something "drastic" were to happen to her like a wreck, arrest etc. She's definitely spiraling and seeing the consequences of her actions from the phone call today. She made an appointment to see a doctor about anxiety, gee I wonder why you have anxiety lmao. I did respond but only said that's good! I'm proud of you.
She has since suggested we all do something together this weekend with D5 like pumpkin picking at the farm etc.as she manged to get herself fired from one job due to spiraling and her boss seeing on camera. Going out to car to get high, drunk while working etc. I have not responded to that inquiry and I do not plan to. She knows where we will be, especially Sunday (church) and she has the ability to show up on her own accord. If she asks again about plans, its my plan to respond that we already have our weekend planned without her as she didn't have time for us before while we were living together, why should that change now that we are separated and I have stopped all pursuit efforts and trying to "love her back" to the marriage. No more hubby saves the day, IDC about her anxiety. Her decisions brought that upon herself and she was yo-yo'ing between me and AP because she felt "safe" with me and of course I was being a puppy dog at the time and rolling over every time she requested. Now she can rely on OM to help her through anxiety issues and panic attacks. That will break the fog faster than anything because she cannot keep up the I can take on the world, miss independent fantasy she has the OM believing I'm sure. OM won't want to deal with her issues and self induced anxiety because she decided to stray and validate her own insecurities.
You can´t play family if you are not family. Keep detaching Tom and be there for your girl. FInd some activities to do for the weekend and go do those with the best PMA. Enjoy some quality time with your kid.
Be strong there, keep DB!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
