Another case of WW

[LovingIt]

What does it mean to DB between 2-3?

Just so you know you can confront without being an a hole.

Between option 2-3... more or less what you said, confront without being a-hole.

I am going to hold off... there's no difference between knowing about the EA or knowing them living together. Both are sh*tty... if it's already happening, it's already happening... I don't think anything I say is going to change anything at this point.

[LH19]

I agree that nothing will say change anything.

My point was just that it’s possible to let someone know you know what’s going on without being an a hole.

[LovingIt]

Been struggling since the interaction several days ago... I think it's due to 2 things...

1. How poorly I handled the interaction... based on feedback from LH and Sandi.

2. How the sitch seems like it has not improved or even regressed from 2 weeks ago.

Maybe I was not detached enough, and hanging on to some small hope based on prior interactions where WW appeared to start coming out of the fog. I guess based on what I read, this will take much longer than 6 weeks (since separation), and she will be still be all over the place and EA needs to take its course. She seems over the the initial separation withdrawal, I was hoping that loss would motivate her to end the EA.

Will work on myself a bit more this weekend, going to a snowboard film festival, maybe play tennis with friends.

[LH19]

L,

Yes the biggest misnomer here is the time line. 6 weeks is a microcosm of how long your situation will mostly run. One of my all time favorite poster use to say “the quickest way back is to go in the complete opposite direction”. It’s very hard for newbies it’s almost impossible to do so they typically pursue and make matters worse. Pursuit NEVER makes things better. Until you learn that unfortunately you will suffer.

[LovingIt]

I keep wondering if I missed the window (2 weeks ago) of her initial separation withdrawal / bargaining phase where she was very emotional and wanted to move back home. She does not seem as emotional now about us or home.

But logically thinking, it would have been a bandaid for her, false R and most likely relapsed, since there is no personal growth / healing on her end to work thru issues and AP still in the picture. It would have put me back into daily chaos and hurt.

Looking ahead, I just don't know what else would change from here on out, aside from getting used to the separation and drifting further apart.

[hoosjim]

My own WW had a window of shock/regret after initial BD/discovery of her EA. At that point the EA was just that... and was really only in beginning stages-- some flirting and musing "Well, what IF we decided to go out or get together.." For the first few weeks after discovery, things started to improve-- we talked, there were baby steps towards "working on the MR" or "getting to know each other again" along with some distancing from OM (she even apparently told him she needed time to "figure things out with hoosjim") and, then, BAM! Major regression. She went off for a weekend with her bff (who, unbeknownst to me at that time had also befriended OM) and, I am guessing (though i still don't know the details here) reconnected with OM at some event or get-together or bar... pretty sure they even spent the night together in a group hotel room (or worse, it's unclear) At any rate, when she came back, things were clearly different with her, and from that point on the A become more and more involved over a period of weeks, and she was more and more distant, rebellious, WW-like, etc. It would be months before she would make any significant effort to end the A and distance herself from OM and start putting in some work, and close to a full year before she would completely cut the cord and go "all in" on reconciling the MR.

It was a hellish up and down, frequently stuck in limbo, process.

I think what sometimes happens is there is an initial shock of discovery, perhaps some remorse, maybe some steps towards "Trying to fix things", perhaps even half-heartedly honest (though i am sure as often as not they are "box-checking" exercises) but then they remember the pull/excitement of the A and the OM and it is back to square one (or worse). I can't imagine that a WW in that situation would ever just "get over it" in six weeks or less and come back to the MR-- a person just doesn't recover from the starry-eyed, hormone-fueled "love" effect that quickly. It takes time. Typically at least months before the OM is completely "out of their head". That said, i AM very sympathetic to Sandi2's view that if, upon discovery of the affair, the LBH IMMEDIATELY manned up and dropped a bomb of his own "It's over or we're done and your outta here"-- the timeline for "recovery" and movement towards reconcilliation, if possible, would be somewhat to significantly shortened.

[hoosjim]

..And i should add to the above that your WW "getting past" the A and the OM is only part of the equation... and not even the most important part at that. AFTER the affair is over (Ending all EMA's is absolutely required before any constructive work on the MR can be done), then and only then can you embark, if possible, on "working on the MR"... and THAT can take a very very long time in itself, and that's even assuming it can happen right away... Sometimes (many here would say always, though i do not agree and my sitch did not so play out) there has to be a separation period... which can sometimes be a period of years.

I say this not to scare but to reinforce in you the the idea that THIS ALL TAKES TIME. Rome wasn't built in a day, your marriage wasn't wrecked in just a day, and it wont be fixed in just a day. It took y'all a while to reach this point (yes, the affair may have"just started", but it took your W and your MR a long time to get to the point where she felt like she needed or wanted to "step out"), and, if it is fixable, it will take you a while to fix it. Don't expect it to happen overnight, or even in a few weeks. It's a marathon not a sprint. One of the reasons that more afflicted marriages than not end up failing. It's just very hard.

In my many readings, I've seen timeframes from 6 months to two years for affairs to "die a natural death", but who really knows... there's a lot of variables. (In my case it took 16 months from when i would consider the relationship to have crossed over into an "EA" until the point in time when all contact was cutoff and I would consider my W to have been for all intents and purposes "over" the OM and willing to commit to working on our MR). Even if a WW agrees to NC with OM and to work on MR, for whatever reason, it can still take a lengthy period of "mourning"--weeks to months-- before she is completely over it. Sandi2's threads relay alot of it well as she herself went through such an period. Once that hurdle is jumped, you'd have counselling and the like, and "piecing", assuming both parties are willing to do that work. And that can take years. My W and were pretty lucky but tbh we're still "working" and there are still "ghosts" and we are closing in on 3 years since the initial BD, and we are PAST the three year point from when her affair actually began.

[LovingIt]

Been watching videos on covert narcissist. Reflecting on all the previous EA's over the past years that was recently disclosed, lies, gaslighting, and lack of remorse - seems to have an excuse for each of them. I'll never forget the look in her eyes (almost a sick power trip) when she left and knew that I was desperate and hurt. Pretty convinced that WW is a covert narcissist, it seems to match the description that once covert narcissist finds a new source (since this OM is getting a divorce), they get some sick pleasure in devaluing and destroying their previous source. Also matches the fact that they want to temp check to see if their previous source is still hanging on.

Wondering even if she does return from this EA, can we actually work on the MR, or if it's just a matter of time when the next episode will happen. I feel like while this OM is supplying her as the new source, if I should just take the opportunity to escape.

Anyone familiar in dealing with covert narcissists? My MC / IC who met her 3x didn't seem to think she was one, but I have doubts. Maybe I'll ask my IC again.

[LovingIt]

Argh... pretty frustrated this morning.

WW came over Sunday morning to grab stuff and use the car. She again came over this morning to return the car. Both times was in the morning, so I really didn't bother getting up early just to avoid her even though she texted day prior.

She texted about doing something on last Saturday - I felt like it was out of politeness since she's grabbing stuff, so I didn't really respond. Declined an offer to tag along yesterday. She mentioned walking to the local coffee shop this morning, and I declined also.

I just don't have a good feeling around her, and I'm sure my face reads like I don't enjoy being around you. Even though the conversation is casual and cordial, or business stuff, but just knowing that she's lying and omitting her living situation with OM is eating away at me.

I guess it's part of the script that WW will be lying, so I should just expect it and learn to detach more? We went thru it in previous threads, but confronting her won't really change anything at this point.

I'm really having a hard time picturing how we can R, and what good looks like at this point.

[Ready2Change]

If they are involved with OM you don’t ask or say anything about it. ....Am I missing something here?

Yes. That is one option out of many. It is not the best, and it is not the worst option.

hijacking for my sitch... what are other better options, if WW is already physically separated (not legally)?

If you are physically separated, many other options have closed. Oz believes there is no OM involved with his W. If he found out today, I think there are lots of things he can and SHOULD say. Has he done his research? Would he speak like puppy dog tails? Allen A? Gucci? Coach? Sandi2? RobX? What would steve85 say? AnotherStander? LH19? Maybe some combination? How about Jack3Beans? OldPilot? What options would they throw on the table?


What would I say? What actions would I take? Most likely some combination of all the users I listed above.


I would definitely draft up something and come here and seek advise.