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Gerda, KML is a doc.

You may want to read this book, it answered a lot for me. Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers

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Gerda Offline OP
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Thank you, Own! I couldn't find a post where she mentioned her job but I am glad I was right she was in the medical field and hopefully she'll have some insight.

I will check out that book. I am a little bit overdosing on thinking about all of it right now but it's good to get more insight. Sunday is my birthday, lots of reflection....


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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The main problem with too much magnesium is it can overwhelm the kidneys, so patients with kidney failure should not take supplemental magnesium. Usually in a person with normal kidney function 500 - 800 mg/d is safe. If he was taking it not to fix constipation but to induce weight loss by abusing it as a laxative, that would fit into the whole eating disorder thought.

And frankly, I'm not surprised that you think your H has NPD, because the weird way he writes totally sounds like a crazy narcissist to me. (As for your brother, who knows if that diagnosis was correct, I think teenagers in crisis and using drugs get mislabeled a lot. Does he strike you as a narcissist now?)

It does sound like the family dysfunction in your childhood may be the reason why you never recognized it in your H - you were accustomed to it. It felt familiar.

(In my case, the opposite was true - my ex was a fairly benign narcissist, and nobody in my family had any kind of pathology like that, so I feel like I was naive and just didn't know what to look for because I'd not been around it.)

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Gerda Offline OP
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Thank you so much, kml, for stopping in and for your thoughts!

Originally Posted by kml
The main problem with too much magnesium is it can overwhelm the kidneys, so patients with kidney failure should not take supplemental magnesium. Usually in a person with normal kidney function 500 - 800 mg/d is safe. If he was taking it not to fix constipation but to induce weight loss by abusing it as a laxative, that would fit into the whole eating disorder thought.


Well he started using it to fix constipation alongside a complete and radical change in his eating habits but I am pretty sure he was taking at least 5 times the recommended dosage, so that would be 2000 mg per day. Since MLC started at the end of 2013. I don't want to get too graphic, but being the only person in the house who cleaned the bathroom, it was pretty intense daily. It was one of the good things about him moving out, that I would stop cleaning toilets daily. When I am sick and can't hold my food at either end, I get extremely dehydrated and sometimes even have a panic attack. So I imagine this has to have a brutal effect on his body, and I read a few anecdotes on the internet of people who had gone a little batty from it. But it sounds like you have not encountered anything about that. I remember my uncle had a nervous breakdown from mercury poisoning and seemed sort of stoned for almost a year, so I was thinking it could be something like that.

Originally Posted by kml
As for your brother, who knows if that diagnosis was correct, I think teenagers in crisis and using drugs get mislabeled a lot. Does he strike you as a narcissist now?)


Yes, he is one of the most self-centered people I have ever met. I just never realized until now that it was that all these years. I thought he was just like that and that never having kids made him never get over that self-focus. I actually feel like an idiot for not realizing it! And it actually made me feel a lot more forgiving -- I realized that he has been trying really hard to conquer that in himself all this time -- tons of therapy and all sorts of physical, nutritional and other practices, and that he might be doing the best he can. He might actually serve as a model for me as the best that someone with NPD can do after years of intensive therapy.

Originally Posted by kml
It does sound like the family dysfunction in your childhood may be the reason why you never recognized it in your H - you were accustomed to it. It felt familiar.


Thank you for your empathy, that is very comforting. What I am grappling with now is that I thought it wasn't familiar at all. I thought my H was totally different from what I knew. It makes me wonder if I was sleepwalking all this time on some level, except that he really seemed like a wonderful guy in most ways, and we were so close. So I think he was either hiding it or battling it or ... I don't know anymore.

Originally Posted by kml
(In my case, the opposite was true - my ex was a fairly benign narcissist, and nobody in my family had any kind of pathology like that, so I feel like I was naive and just didn't know what to look for because I'd not been around it.)


But did you notice any behaviors that bothered you? I would think that if you had never encountered it, you would find it really horrible and not something you had to put up with. Or did your H also seem mostly good until MLC?

Last edited by Gerda; 12/07/19 01:28 AM.

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Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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I guess this is journaling --

I am trying to sit with a feeling, as per the book I keep mentioning.

The feeling is --

D10 always comes back from a night or even an afternoon with H a little weird and a little mean to me, like she doesn't trust me anymore. It is so awful. Takes a couple days to go back to normal. Today I was determined to just be funny and fun when she got home and then I let her watch a show she likes. After a little while I came in to sit with her and watch it for a moment because I had done that this morning with S14 after he was a little grouchy with me and was surprised at how it made him light up and tell me all about the show and then come in later to tell me what happened next.

So anyway I did this with D10 and she physically pushed me away, trying to push me out of the room and saying, "You can go now." And I said, "Why? I thought you would like it if I watched a show with you, I did that with S14 this morning." And she said, "Because you are always on top of me and always trying to control me," and then looked really sheepish and confused. I knew where that came from and I froze for a moment, hit by those awful feelings. We LBSers always have to have so much clarity in these moments and I had none. But finally I said, "You think so? Who told you that?" And she looked really confused, like she wanted to tell me the truth but then she got a mean look on her face and said, "It's because you are." I didn't want to say anything about her dad so I forced myself to get up and leave the room.

I am trying to see my feelings/fears clearly as part of this process of learning to see them and then letting them go. I have a fear that she won't love me anymore or that H will get in the way of us being close.

-- I have a fear for her that she will inherit the confusion that plagues me when someone is trying to manipulate me and I can't remember the truth -- this was what happened with my mother all my life and finally when I was in my late teens I had to start being very cold around her most of the time in order to keep a clear head. And it is something that many on these boards have remarked upon about me, how confused I get in that context about things that are obvious.
--I am afraid that my D will see me (and hate me!) the way I saw (and hated) my mom, and that it will take many years for her to understand what really happened here. I fantasize about telling her more of the details just to "win" her over! (But don't worry, I don't do that.)
-- I even noticed I was afraid of a future D15 announcing she would live with her dad!

Wow, what a lot of fears and feelings of betrayal. Quite an old and murky swamp in Gerda's heart and mind.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Gerda,

You may not be trying to control your children, but is it possible that you hover too much? Maybe, they feel a bit smothered by your caring and wanting to be with them. Db them a little bit, step back a bit and allow them to come to you. Just as adults, kids need a little bit of space too. Your children aren't little tots any longer. They are growing up and yes, they too need to practice spreading their wings.

Maybe she heard something at your h's place or it could be that she's comparing her home situation w/that of others from her class. It could be that she comes home and compares the way that she is treated over at h's place and then when she returns home you hover a bit more than what she's experienced at the other place.

Do your children go to visit their classmates or have them come home and play w/them? The reason I am asking is that I don't think I have read that they do this, but you do mention visiting family and your friends once in a while.

Give them a bit of space, allow them to come to you and listen to what they are telling you. If they are telling you something that you do or don't do, maybe it's time to look deep within to see if there is any truth to what they've stated. If there is, then it might be time to dig deeper for patience and make some changes that will allow all of you to live more comfortably under the same roof.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Gerda - the therapist I saw told me it would take a full year for my kids to begin to settle after my ex moved out. They were 14 and 12 at the time. There was lots of acting out. And I did have to DB my older one a few weeks ago and that really changed the dynamic is in our r for the better.

For a solid year, every time they returned to my home they were extremely argumentative (older son) and withdrawn (younger son). My therapist warned me they would act out to the parent who was “safe.” My therapist met my ex and actually told me I would be dealing with the adjustment issues from the kids as my ex would not “allow” expression of emotion. When he told them about the D, he immediately said “think about how you want to react to this because you will be men someday.” Talk about an a$$ who is emotionally constipated!!!!

KML said the same: kids will act out where they feel safe doing so. Wear it as a badge! The transitions back and forth are hard on them.

This is not really about you. You may feel good mothering in that way but it may be too much after transitioning to another house and maybe being in an environment where she had to be buttoned up. In my opinion, your goal is to welcome her home, tell her you missed her and love her and then say: “what can I do for you?” Then just validate and honor it.

This may even be too much upon arriving home! For many months, all I could say when my kids came home was “hi” because anything more ignited a battle. You may, eventually, want to express that you are trying to help her cope with the transitions. “I am here to help you in any way I can;” whether that be spending time with you, giving you space; making you some comfort foods, etc.). We need to accept their irritability unconditionally at this point and show unconditional love while respecting the way they cope.

Don’t get wrapped up in what that they parrot back from your ex or your fears on how they view you. Show them through your actions who you really are and they will see this in a year or so when the behavior is consistent...


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Hello Gerda

That was very good clarity and admission of feelings and fears. Well done.

A couple of questions for you. How fast did the fears spring up? How long until they subsided?

I like the visual - an old murky swamp.

D10 is sounding like a young girl; pushing back a bit. I am pretty sure she is a bit stressed when she returns from Dad’s, and guess what??? You, being the sane and stable parent, get the flak. Kids cannot risk lashing out at their troubled parent, so we get double. Remember kids have to learn how to let go of their fears, anger, etc... as well.

As you said, she always comes back from a visit a little weird and a little mean. I do hate to tell you, but that is most likely going to get worse before it gets better. My kids had to work through their stuff, and Mom sure couldn’t accept whatever they needed to say, and I was the substitute.

A good phrase, “I’m sorry you feel that way”. Then leave the room if they want or need to be alone, and don’t worry they just need a little time and space. We do tend to personalize what trouble our children are experiencing. You’ll find out that most of it isn’t about you. Really. Honest. I know, I know, how crazy does that sound.

DnJ


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Even though I am a day early, I still want to wish you a very Happy Birthday! Enjoy your special day.

BTW, your thread will most likely be locked before tomorrow, so you may want to start a new thread so that others can chime in on the birthday wishes.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Happy Birthday!

It has been a pleasure getting to know you! : )


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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