Relapse and Lost Progress

[AnotherStander]

Now, if you look back at many old posts between Sandi and I, you will see that this was a huge problem between her and I because she would do the exact same thing to me! I am sitting there thinking that to myself, and validating, "Yes that must be frustrating".

Ahhh young padwan, I hereby elevate you to the position of Validation Master This is EXACTLY what validation is all about. You're sitting there thinking how crazy what she's saying is, yet outwardly you are being sympathetic, listening and giving her affirmation. WELL DONE! Now as RuPaul says- "don't f*** it up!"

And then I'm shocked because she comes out and acknowledges how she in fact does the same thing to me and says she how sorry she is for it! It wasn't some over the top big deal or anything, but very sincere and natural, and I almost fell out of my chair. I don't know where this behavior is coming from

The behavior is a direct result of your listening and validating. This is exactly how it works. That's the beauty of it. She doesn't want you to fix her, she just wants you to listen and hear her. When you do, she fixes herself.

[44tries2]

Thanks, LH. That is what I am trying to do. Be organically unavailable but when she does make contact I am polite, validate, but always detached. She just sent me a message that she is probably coming home today now. Tired of her sister. Now I am really going to have to GAL this weekend.

[44tries2]

Thanks for the encouragement, AS! A great pick me up today. Sounds like I will be getting a lot more practice opportunities once she is home so I will keep up the validation with these good results in mind.

[44tries2]

Journal time...W is back. So before she got here, her sister called me asking for some details to send flowers to her as a thank you for helping after her surgery. We chatted a bit about how the week went (we are good friends, lived together at one point). I figured it hadn't been great since W was coming back already, but her sister turned to her boyfriend and asked how he would describe W's behavior while she was there and he said "shocking". Apparently there were constant issues and W was impossible to get along with even after attempted apologies, etc. Then she tells me W said we are "possibly getting divorced". Okay I had had enough of that conversation, I don't need any more details messing with my detachment.

I was in bed reading when W arrived. She came in the doorway, asked how I was and says she thinks she's sick. Then she walks across the room and around the bed, says thanks for washing my bedding (her one request before she left, that I probably should have declined) and proceeds to lean down and give me the world's awkwardest hug. Finally she says "well I guess I'll leave you alone" in this fake sounding sad voice and walks out.

[rooskers]

Finally she says "well I guess I'll leave you alone" in this fake sounding sad voice and walks out.

Mine was famous for that type of behavior. So later your W will be able to say, "hey I was trying but you were so cold and mean". It is meant to instill guilty feelings in you and control you.

[Thornton]

hey 44,

Your W does not sound mentally stable right now. Your SIL and her boyfriend were shocked by W’s behavior.

Instead of focusing on how to get her back, you might want to start protecting yourself. It does not seem like your W will be balanced anytime soon.

[sandi2]

I read some Internet articles on Anxious-Avoidant Attachment, plus some other articles on Fear of Intimacy and Fear of Vulnerability. The anxious-avoidant couple did appear to describe your MR. I can't remember your W's childhood problems at the moment. The fear of intimacy might be where she struggles the most, IDK. One point that jumped out at me (cause I was looking for what would cause her to be so controlling) was how critical & nit-picking they can be toward their spouse. The other point I found interesting under the fear of intimacy, was how they self-sabotage their own relationships. The third point I saw that might also fit her, was how they fear commitment. She was doubting the MR before she ever said her vows. They have several short term relationships, rather than long term......due to the fear of intimacy. Of course, they would be huge avoiders, too. It's not that she doesn't want a close relationship, but the fear shuts down her feelings of intimacy. Your W has said there is no "connection" between the two of you.

You could do some research about it and see what the spouse is advised. She may have no idea she fears intimacy...….or how it affects all her relationships. It could explain why she acts the way she does sometimes, but it doesn't give her a license to mistreat people who love her. If she wants things to change for the better, it would require her working closely with the appropriate therapist to face her core emotional fears...….and how to proceed in having a loving, committed, long term MR.

I suppose it may sound as if I'm diagnosing your W, but I'm not qualified. Just wanted you to know that I did follow up on your post about the Anxious-Avoidant Attachment.

[44tries2]

Rooskers and T, I think you are both right. Honestly, T, she is not mentally stable right now. But I do not think it is because of some actual breakdown, I think it's because she feels anxious, guilty, and out of control since she has been making such crappy decisions (she goes to the casino every day she is off work, among other things). But who knows. She went on a rant today about how she was ignoring SIL this weekend and she was fed up and done. I asked with what and she had no real answer. Just said she didn't care about what she had to say or her surgery and couldn't believe she still asked for things while W wasn't feeling well when she was there. Remember, SIL has arranged for an elaborate bouquet to be delivered on Tuesday as a thank you. I feel so bad for her honestly. I know that she has not done anything to deserve wrath from W. The stuff W ranted to me today sounded like the same thing she said to me why she wants a divorce. "I don't care about what you talk about", read: I don't care about you. Seems the only one she cares about these days is herself...

Sandi, I appreciate you taking the time to look into anxious-avoidant relationships. For exactly the reasons you listed, I feel it is very descriptive of my MR. Her childhood problems: (I do not know them all as she has vulnerability issues but a decent idea) Addict parents mainly (mom and stepdad from toddler age), a mentally ill/addict biological dad that was in and out and let her down and then died. Some incident she will "never tell another soul" after her mother dismissed it when she told her. She just has no real support system, she is relied on as the golden one of the family to be successful. The only one in her family to never have a drug problem. Her parents are like stoner friends, nothing to really lean on. If anything, they lean on her or used to anyway (they are doing better now, no hard drugs anymore).

I have looked into some of what to do as the spouse in anxious-avoidant and a lot is just understanding the dynamic and being able to self soothe anxiety. Because putting it on them will cause them to withdraw. But the other big thing is moving from "anxiously insecure" to secure attachment. One of the ways to fix the avoidant is to be with someone who is secure. Of course this rarely happens, because typically secure matches with secure and they have a better shot at this than the rest of us. But if I can work on myself and move more toward secure and less anxious, that seems like the best use of my energy. I start IC tomorrow, finally! Can't wait.

I have some journaling about the weekend, but I will have to post it later. It's likely all trivial anyway. But the summary is I did well with GAL, so I'm happy about that. W was nosy and jealous as predicted.

Okay, the big thing for me right now is my patience. I cannot get the A possibility out of my mind. Like I know that has to be it. She is totally different than last time, verryyyy smooth. But that is to be expected right? I mean, she isn't a stupid person. And she keeps her phone very close to her chest, literally, and as noted in a prior post it's like she goes out of her way to make it appear innocent. Reading texts out loud, never texting when I'm in the room etc. So I snooped a tiny bit while she was in the shower tonight. Just checked her phone for any notifications. There was a message from some guy's name I don't know who it is. I did not read it, didn't even check if she has changed her password. I have been trying so hard not to snoop, but that is enough for me to conclude all right here and now. I just need to know for sure. If I had proof, I would walk in right now and tell her to pack her sh!t and find somewhere else to stay while she is having an A. Not negotiable. Last year it took my like three weeks to prepare for a confrontation. But I don't think I am starting from square one, I hope. Thoughts, everyone?? Should I bluff? Snoop more and get proof? I am trying to be detached and detached people do not pay attention to these things. So I could just never know. But IHS is torturous and after knowing what three months of it feels like, starting it again is freaking me out. A part of me STILL cannot believe it.

[44tries2]

Maybe I am paranoid...I think I figured out who the guy is. It's a coworker (I only know them by last name). She stayed at his house the night she left. But he is married and his W is there. I do not think there would be anything weird between them, but I am not naive. The only thing hanging me up is this guy was not there while she was away, so it doesn't really fit. May be a false alarm.

[rooskers]

I am trying to be detached and detached people do not pay attention to these things. So I could just never know.

The first time my wife had an affair I went through everything you talked about and it was on my mind every second of the day. I thought if I just knew then it would be over and I would move on but then she admitted it and it was still on my mind and I still didn't want her to leave. We reconciled for 11 years and it took 5 years for it to pretty much not be on my mind some part of the day. Then she BD me again and all the memories of what she did last time came cascading back.

Second time around I got the whole ILYBNILWY and knew if was likely an affair again. I started detaching and let go of the needing to know about the possible affair. I can tell you from knowing the first time and not knowing the second time, it has been so much easier to detach and move forward with the not knowing and now not even caring.

Assume it is an affair and move forward.