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180 means recognizing and stopping all of your toxic and negative behaviors that negatively impacted your MR. 180s are for you. They better you.

You are solid in the friend zone with the car repairs etc. I pulled all of my money from our joint accounts and split our savings down the middle.

I backed off snd stopped doing anything for the sole benefit of my exww. I would suggest you do the same. She fired you as her husband.


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Originally Posted by SoTorn
180 means recognizing and stopping all of your toxic and negative behaviors that negatively impacted your MR. 180s are for you. They better you.

You are solid in the friend zone with the car repairs etc. I pulled all of my money from our joint accounts and split our savings down the middle.

I backed off snd stopped doing anything for the sole benefit of my exww. I would suggest you do the same. She fired you as her husband.


Yeah, I get it...tonight she was complaining that I am not being a kind friend as she deals with a bad job and looking for a new one. She wants me to fulfill the marriage responsibilities of providing for the household, taking car of car repair stuff, etc., but she wants to be separated.

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Originally Posted by "DrDet"
.tonight she was complaining that I am not being a kind friend as she deals with a bad job and looking for a new one. She wants me to fulfill the marriage responsibilities of providing for the household, taking car of car repair stuff, etc., but she wants to be separated.

How did you respond to her complaints? That's almost as important as your "yes" or "no"!

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by "DrDet"
.tonight she was complaining that I am not being a kind friend as she deals with a bad job and looking for a new one. She wants me to fulfill the marriage responsibilities of providing for the household, taking car of car repair stuff, etc., but she wants to be separated.

How did you respond to her complaints? That's almost as important as your "yes" or "no"!


THIS.

Listen. Validate. Please read and study the validation thread.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by "DrDet"
.tonight she was complaining that I am not being a kind friend as she deals with a bad job and looking for a new one. She wants me to fulfill the marriage responsibilities of providing for the household, taking car of car repair stuff, etc., but she wants to be separated.

How did you respond to her complaints? That's almost as important as your "yes" or "no"!


THIS.

Listen. Validate. Please read and study the validation thread.


Tonight was simply maddening, though. Had my car at the auto shop that needed to be picked up and she offers to give me a ride...cool. On the way over, I get the, well, we have a moment without the kids and I'd like to talk about mediation. She then goes down the road of starting mediation now so that by next summer we can dissolve the marriage and the kids don't have to adjust while they're in school. According to her, we need to keep the kids interests and their stability in mind. I exercised some restraint and didn't tell her that she could have kept that in mind before screwing around with the OM.

I basically just let her talk and didn't reply. She kept on trying to persuade me that mediation was the best approach so that we could avoid the expense of attorneys and avoid a bitter, drawn out divorce fight...unless, she says, that is what I want.

I reiterated, again, that I want neither mediation or a divorce. That I'm not going to divorce her right now and would prefer remaining married. So she took me down the road asking why I would want this marriage (this being our crappy marriage where I had anger problems and would isolate and withdraw). I explained I wanted a different marriage and she banged me with, well, why, why do you want to stay married to me. She further went to say that, well, thats right, you wouldn't want to divorce me because I haven't abused you for years as you did to me (she characterizes my anger problems and withdrawing as forms of abuse). I suggest that we both have unresolved resentment and have both done some ****ty things.

Here's the real kicker...As she was talking about wanting to move on with mediation, she said that she wanted a chance to be happy with someone who wants her as a companion. I took a few moments and let her go on before telling her that I want to be and would be that companion. She smirked and sniffed and told me that that's not what I have been showing her recently because while she's been in crisis mode about her job, finding a new job and having panic attacks, I haven't been a kind friend. When I told her that I know her job has been ****ty and she responded that yeah, I knew, but that I wasn't doing anything about it. I finally had it at that moment. I told her that she's the one who wants to be separated, she's the one who keeps pushing and pushing to divorce and that for my well-being I was detaching to protect myself. Of course, her reply now is well, why wait to divorce, why not end it since we're both detaching. **** her. That was bull****, man.

Somewhere in this conversation she asked if I wanted her to find a mediator or if we should find one together. I told her that this is her thing and if she wants to pursue then move and at some point I'll have to become a participant, until then, I'm not initiating a divorce.

For our entire relationship I was the giving her the pep talks, encouraging her, supporting her and she was grateful for that. Now, because I am 180'ing her she's complaining that I'm not someone she can ask for help or for support since I'm detaching. Well, tough ****, this is what separation looks like.

It's funny, though, her implication being that recently I haven't been showing her that I care or would be a companion because I haven't been offering her a shoulder to cry on or coddling her as she's sitting at the dining room table crying while my boys and I are playing a game in the living room or offering her support when she's having a panic attack after spending all evening crying in front of me and boys. I'm not going to emotionally invest myself just so she can turn it on me the next day with another demand that I start divorce proceedings and telling that she wants to move forward with dissolving the marriage

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by "DrDet"
.tonight she was complaining that I am not being a kind friend as she deals with a bad job and looking for a new one. She wants me to fulfill the marriage responsibilities of providing for the household, taking car of car repair stuff, etc., but she wants to be separated.

How did you respond to her complaints? That's almost as important as your "yes" or "no"!


As posted above, I didn't really respond to her complaints per se.

I did tell her that I wanted to her companion but that she was choosing a different path.

I also explained that I was detaching to protect myself and my well-being as a way to explain why I was not initiating conversations or responding extensively when she drops her comments about her being upset that she has to give up being a part time sahm because of what's happening to us. I also told her that her continued and repeated attempts to get the divorce going tells me that she doesn't want my support and that her doing the live in separation also suggests that she doesn't want me to be supportive.

I also contrasted that with my behavior immediately following her telling me she wanted a separation up to the time I found out about the OM wherein I initiated conversations, validated her thoughts and feelings, expressed concern and support.

I am trying to 180 this situation and it's hard. It's not intuitive and my codependency is like a wall to 180ing.

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Originally Posted by DrDet
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by "DrDet"
.tonight she was complaining that I am not being a kind friend as she deals with a bad job and looking for a new one. She wants me to fulfill the marriage responsibilities of providing for the household, taking car of car repair stuff, etc., but she wants to be separated.

How did you respond to her complaints? That's almost as important as your "yes" or "no"!


THIS.

Listen. Validate. Please read and study the validation thread.


Tonight was simply maddening, though. Had my car at the auto shop that needed to be picked up and she offers to give me a ride...cool. On the way over, I get the, well, we have a moment without the kids and I'd like to talk about mediation. She then goes down the road of starting mediation now so that by next summer we can dissolve the marriage and the kids don't have to adjust while they're in school. According to her, we need to keep the kids interests and their stability in mind. I exercised some restraint and didn't tell her that she could have kept that in mind before screwing around with the OM.

I basically just let her talk and didn't reply. She kept on trying to persuade me that mediation was the best approach so that we could avoid the expense of attorneys and avoid a bitter, drawn out divorce fight...unless, she says, that is what I want.

I reiterated, again, that I want neither mediation or a divorce. That I'm not going to divorce her right now and would prefer remaining married. So she took me down the road asking why I would want this marriage (this being our crappy marriage where I had anger problems and would isolate and withdraw). I explained I wanted a different marriage and she banged me with, well, why, why do you want to stay married to me. She further went to say that, well, thats right, you wouldn't want to divorce me because I haven't abused you for years as you did to me (she characterizes my anger problems and withdrawing as forms of abuse). I suggest that we both have unresolved resentment and have both done some ****ty things.

Here's the real kicker...As she was talking about wanting to move on with mediation, she said that she wanted a chance to be happy with someone who wants her as a companion. I took a few moments and let her go on before telling her that I want to be and would be that companion. She smirked and sniffed and told me that that's not what I have been showing her recently because while she's been in crisis mode about her job, finding a new job and having panic attacks, I haven't been a kind friend. When I told her that I know her job has been ****ty and she responded that yeah, I knew, but that I wasn't doing anything about it. I finally had it at that moment. I told her that she's the one who wants to be separated, she's the one who keeps pushing and pushing to divorce and that for my well-being I was detaching to protect myself. Of course, her reply now is well, why wait to divorce, why not end it since we're both detaching. **** her. That was bull****, man.

Somewhere in this conversation she asked if I wanted her to find a mediator or if we should find one together. I told her that this is her thing and if she wants to pursue then move and at some point I'll have to become a participant, until then, I'm not initiating a divorce.

For our entire relationship I was the giving her the pep talks, encouraging her, supporting her and she was grateful for that. Now, because I am 180'ing her she's complaining that I'm not someone she can ask for help or for support since I'm detaching. Well, tough ****, this is what separation looks like.

It's funny, though, her implication being that recently I haven't been showing her that I care or would be a companion because I haven't been offering her a shoulder to cry on or coddling her as she's sitting at the dining room table crying while my boys and I are playing a game in the living room or offering her support when she's having a panic attack after spending all evening crying in front of me and boys. I'm not going to emotionally invest myself just so she can turn it on me the next day with another demand that I start divorce proceedings and telling that she wants to move forward with dissolving the marriage


Not sure how your responses were listening and validating....................


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Well, remember some DB basics DD. Avoid MR talks, validate feelings and believe nothing that they say...

Keep detaching. Keep DB

Stay strong there man.


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Originally Posted by "DrDet"
[quote=Steve85][quote=CWarrior][quote="DrDet"]According to her, we need to keep the kids interests and their stability in mind. I exercised some restraint and didn't tell her that she could have kept that in mind before screwing around with the OM. I basically just let her talk and didn't reply.

Oof. The goal is to LISTEN and VALIDATE. Not attacking is a good start I suppose.

Originally Posted by "DrDet"
She further went to say that, well, thats right, you wouldn't want to divorce me because I haven't abused you for years as you did to me (she characterizes my anger problems and withdrawing as forms of abuse). I suggest that we both have unresolved resentment and have both done some ****ty things.

DrDet, this sounds like a KEY moment. She's expressing her frustration with her relationship with you. This is precisely where hearing where she's coming from and drawing her feelings out could make a difference.

"Wow, my verbal abuse has really wounded you."
"Wow, you feel my yelling and name-calling rose to the level of verbal abuse."

re: "She characterizes my anger problems [yelling at your kids and name-calling your kids] and withdrawing as forms of abuse"--you wouldn't consider that verbal and/or emotional abuse?

Originally Posted by "DrDet"
When I told her that I know her job has been ****ty

Yay! THAT is showing that you listened. Good job. I mean it.

Originally Posted by "DrDet"
I finally had it at that moment. I told her that she's the one who wants to be separated, she's the one who keeps pushing and pushing to divorce..

This is a good moment to discuss with your IC--the moment you lost your self-control. We all have limits. Anger management should include what to do in those moments, e.g., taking a 5-minute walk.

Originally Posted by "DrDet"
It's funny, though, her implication being that recently I haven't been showing her that I care or would be a companion because I haven't been offering her a shoulder to cry on or coddling her as she's sitting at the dining room table crying while my boys and I are playing a game or offering her support when she's having a panic attack after spending all evening crying in front of me and boys.

Wow--I wonder what your boys were thinking/feeling, watching their mom cry to panic attack levels as you engaged them with games. Which raises another point--your relationship with them is worth considering. Often separations and divorces can damage relationships with the kids.

Last edited by CWarrior; 09/25/19 06:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by CWarrior
[
Originally Posted by "DrDet"
She further went to say that, well, thats right, you wouldn't want to divorce me because I haven't abused you for years as you did to me (she characterizes my anger problems and withdrawing as forms of abuse). I suggest that we both have unresolved resentment and have both done some ****ty things.

DrDet, this sounds like a KEY moment. She's expressing her frustration with her relationship with you. This is precisely where hearing where she's coming from and drawing her feelings out could make a difference.

re: "She characterizes my anger problems [yelling at your kids and name-calling your kids] and withdrawing as forms of abuse"--you wouldn't consider that a reasonable interpretationn.


I did tell her I understood that her perceiving it as abuse was reasonable and appropriate. I also acknowledged that what she feels and believes is true to her,it's what she feels and believes.

Quote
Wow--I wonder what your boys were thinking/feeling, watching their mom cry to panic attack levels as you engaged them with games. Which raises another point--your relationship with them is worth considering. Often separations and divorces can damage relationships with the kids.


You know, I'm getting advice to 180 her and I also firmly believe that she doesn't want me to show her care. She wants to divorce me and get away from me. Why the hell would she want me to show her caring? How do I maintain my dignity by showing care to someone who is experiencing pain as a result of her cheating on me and wanting to end the marriage?

Or am I being a thick headed dolt here?

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