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Summary: Married 28 years, 3 teenagers,
WAH planned to leave over a year ago, BD - 4/1/2019
Moved out 4/6/2019
Lease is up 10/31/2019
Both moving into our own places.

He says he left because I'm mentally ill. After he left I started taking new meds and am no longer depressed or have anxiety. This is the longest I've gone without any issue (6 months). The kids have told him how great I'm doing and they can't lie. They tell him everything as they do me. There is no privacy even with no contact.

I have done a 180 but still have lots of work to do. In the first 30 days he got everything ready to file for divorce. I was 99% sure he was going to file but he didn't. D17 has disowned him and that day he sent her a horrible, desperate text. At that point the kids said he went from wanting a D yesterday to doing nothing. It's been 6 months and he still hasn't filed. Our attorneys are negotiating a separation agreement. This won't go well. He wants to pay child support only and that's not how it works since it's a long marriage and I was a homemaker for 15 years.

He said back in May that he'd consider reconciling (he took it back in July) only because of the new meds but it wouldn't have worked anyway. 6 months isn't enough time for me to make lasting changes so I'm moving on. I've rented a house, I'm packing and by Oct 13th our ties should be severed.

Our kids are teenagers so there isn't a reason to communicate so haven't spoken in months. Our last connection is the house that we rent jointly. I mostly journal here but I was wondering what happens after ties are severed. Guessing we go back to where we've been for months right?

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My current question. I was supposed to move into an apartment but changed my mind and rented a house instead. WAH didn’t see me doing that. Anyway D14 told him but she said it wasn’t official yet because I hadn’t even seen it yet. I’d just put down a deposit because the competition is fierce at this price point.

I saw the house yesterday so it’s official now. WAH knows it isn’t in the school district but we’ve already had that discussion. D14 knows now it’s official but doesn’t know where it is. She will tell WAH everything she knows. S19 still thinks we are moving to an apartment. D17 isn’t speaking to WAH so I’ve told her. Everything has happened fast.

Do I tell everyone now? Address and all? Everything I say gets back to him. He won’t like where this house is because my estranged mother of 20 years lives down the street. I’d live next door to her to keep out of apartment. I’m not angry or scared of her anymore.

Thoughts?

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If my kids weren't in the middle I'd say screw him. He lied to me for over a year and I don't owe him anything now. So far D14 has been satisfied with pictures. I'm not sure that will be enough for S19.

I don't mind keeping things from my kids unless it directly affects them then I feel they have a right to know.

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Originally Posted by kas99
Do I tell everyone now? Address and all? Everything I say gets back to him. He won’t like where this house is because my estranged mother of 20 years lives down the street.


Why do you care what he thinks? He left you. You're taking control of your life. It doesn't matter what he thinks. As for telling everyone you're moving, yes of course, that's the polite thing to do.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Hi Kas,

Originally Posted by "Kas99"
I mostly journal here but I was wondering what happens after ties are severed.

You have kids together, so ties will likely never be 100% severed. I spoke to my ex-wife on the phone for 22 minutes this weekend about my daughter. Your ex doesn't sound as involved with his kids.

Originally Posted by "Kas99"
Do I tell everyone now? Address and all? Everything I say gets back to him. He won’t like..

He's your co-parent not your partner. I think your only obligation was notifying and perhaps discussing with him the school change. Once his kids change residence, I'd think you have an obligation to tell him. If it significantly affects his pick-ups or drop-offs, I think more like 30 days' notice would be in order.

Originally Posted by "Kas99"
He lied to me for over a year and I don't owe him anything now. So far D14 has been satisfied with pictures. I'm not sure that will be enough for S19. I don't mind keeping things from my kids unless it directly affects them then I feel they have a right to know.

I would share whatever your kids need to be as comfortable as possible. I wouldn't withhold info that would make them more comfortable because they may share it with your ex and he may not like your choice.

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Why do you care what he thinks? He left you. You're taking control of your life. It doesn't matter what he thinks. As for telling everyone you're moving, yes of course, that's the polite thing to do.


They are his kids too and he will worry about the affect of her on all of our lives. My parents have done some really horrible things to me over the years but my father was behind it all and he's dead now. He was the abuser and I could never get my mom to leave him. Mom sends me birthday cards every once in a while so she never gave up on me. She told me once that she'd never change her phone number in case I ever called. She's 73 years old and I'm so over it.

I wonder if this isn't a coincidence that I'm going to live near her. I've had these feelings before but that was before medication. The sheer thought of her would send me into a tailspin. I don't feel that way now.

This will anger WAH but he left me no choice. It's either this house or an apartment. You're right its my life but I do worry about him taking me to court or something saying I'm a bad mother for putting my kids in harms way. My mother would never hurt them though. She's rich and would spoil them silly. That's how she treats her other grandkids.

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You have kids together, so ties will likely never be 100% severed. I spoke to my ex-wife on the phone for 22 minutes this weekend about my daughter. Your ex doesn't sound as involved with his kids.


I do not know how to respond to this. I thought the kids would flock to him and ask him to do everything but it hasn't played out that way. He wants to be involved but I don't think they are interested. I wasn't trying to do some parental alienation thing I just got better and more fun. He stayed the same. He wasn't fun before and he isn't fun now. At home we laugh, dance, tell jokes, it's like night and day from where we were. The kids say he's cranky now.

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I would share whatever your kids need to be as comfortable as possible. I wouldn't withhold info that would make them more comfortable because they may share it with your ex and he may not like your choice.


This is tough. D14 is okay with pictures but S19 might want more information. I don't blame him I'd want to know where I'm going to be living.

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Kas... don’t worry about what he is going to think. You are taking care of you and your kids the best way you can. He chose to leave so he has no say anymore. As you said...housing these days is difficult to find. RE: your mom. Obviously I don’t know the details but I do know that life is short and that if there is any way to mend fences with your mom and rebuild a relationship with her, why not give it a try? I lost my mom two years ago and my dad 14 years ago. I cannot imagine how much harder it would have been if they had passed with things left unsaid between us or some unfinished business. Also...my XMIL is a HUGE help with my kids now that I am a single parent AND my kids have another person in their lives to love and support them which is never a bad thing. Maybe you finding a house so close to your mom is a sign that the time is right for you to reconcile. These situations often bring us blessings we did not anticipate. Maybe this is one of those blessings. Best of luck. (((HUGS)))

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I told all the kids. He's not going to care.

It's not a coincidence that I'm moving near my mom. I did think maybe it's another blessing to come out of all of this mess.

S19 had dinner with WAH yesterday. WAH is planning on quitting the 2nd job soon. He thinks he won't need it once he's done paying all my bills. Thinks he will have more money. S19 doesn't even know about alimony and even he gets that WAH bills are going up. WAH is delusional if he thinks after 28 years of marriage all he will have to pay is child support and my deposits. I gave up my career to stay at home and he makes 3.5 times what I do. He evidently doesn't know about my attorney yet.

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Hi Kas. There are too many "he"s in your posts. Just get out of there. Don´t give him that power. Expect nothing, wait for nothing. Power is yours, girl.
Trust yourself. You are doing good. Shine for your kids, be the lighthouse.

Stay strong. Keep the GAL and keep DB.

Power is yours! Respect!


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My mom and I were close until I turned 13. At that point my father started grooming me. We ended up having an EA. He used her for sex and me for everything else. My mom resented me for this, I defended him and she had no say in parenting. My father treated me like an adult so I got to do whatever I wanted. In hindsight she tried to parent me but he veto'd her every time. As an adult I tried to have a relationship with her but I had no boundaries and I allowed her to walk all over me.

I think if I tried to reconcile with her I'd start with a letter. Get a PO box so she doesn't know where I live and it gives me the opportunity to test the waters without having to see her face to face. I could stop communicating with her at any time.

Yes I will be living 4 houses away but it's a different street (still very very close) and she doesn't know what I look like. I've passed her in the store 3-4 times and she walked right by me.

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Originally Posted by neffer
Hi Kas. There are too many "he"s in your posts. Just get out of there. Don´t give him that power. Expect nothing, wait for nothing. Power is yours, girl.
Trust yourself. You are doing good. Shine for your kids, be the lighthouse.

Stay strong. Keep the GAL and keep DB.

Power is yours! Respect!


I’m bent towards negative thinking (trying to fix this). S19 called me out on this last night. I asked him what is the difference between reality and being negative. He said one is factual the other isn’t.

Part of me wants to cry and part of me wants to celebrate. I think I’m losing my mind. I’m floundering and thriving. What is wrong with me? Does this even make sense? Part of me thinks this will be a grand adventure and part of me wants to die. Is codependency leaving me? Am I healing or delusional?

I don’t want to be positive I want to resist it. I don’t know why. Being positive is like burning my security blanket. Negativity comforts me it’s a drug it’s unnecessary drama I’m afraid to trust. I’m fighting back tears writing this.

Can someone please explain this to me?

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I move in 3 weeks. WAH is being very agreeable because he thinks he’s only going to have to pay me child support. Part of me is tempted to let him live in fantasy land until I move. If I cut expenses back to bare minimum I could make it work. By agreeable I mean him saying I could have anything I want and he’d help me move.

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Kas… how sad that your mom doesn't recognize you. Or does she recognize you but is just acting as if she doesn't because she doesn't know what to say? Either way... I am sad for you. Parents do the worst things to their kids at times, don't they? Makes me angry sometimes. I've been working as a mental health social worker for 21 years and you would think that nothing would surprise me anymore but sadly, that's not the case. I hope things work out for you.

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Just saw your other post... I think the feelings you are having are completely normal. I went though the same thing. Devastated and scared on one hand but then, on the other, excited for what might be possible that I hadn't considered before. Part of the, I think, was coming to terms with the fact that I was also unhappy in my marriage and recognizing that my H had been neglecting me and gaslighting me for years and coming to the realization that I deserved much, much better. Still... there is always the fear that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know which is why the roller coaster, I think. It is just fear and loss and grief and all of those things. This is NOT an easy process but it is a necessary one. It does get better Kas. Those excited moments will eventually start to outnumber the fearful and sad moments and they will start to last longer. Promise yourself that from now on, you are going to try to live your very best life possible...for you and your kids. They, and you, deserve nothing less. (((HUGS)))

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Hi Kas,

Originally Posted by “Kas99”
WAH is being very agreeable because he thinks he’s only going to have to pay me child support. Part of me is tempted to let him live in fantasy land until I move.


I’d avoid such talk and let your L handle notifications and negotiations as they feel it’s appropriate.

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I’d avoid such talk and let your L handle notifications and negotiations as they feel it’s appropriate.


I'm sitting here sobbing. I plugged his number into my budget and I come up short. I move in 3 weeks. He's offering child support only which is 20% of his income. He's got a shark for an attorney and I feel so defeated.

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Hey Kass,

So sorry you are panicking. Have you consulted with a lawyer to see what your rights are? It shouldn’t really matter if he has a shark for a lawyer because state law trumps everything and there are usually child support calculators that determine all this stuff.

Thorn

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Hi Kas, it sounds really scary not knowing what the future will bring. As Thornton says—your attorney should be able to inform you about of your court’s guidelines for alimony and child support. That’s normally more or less what you get regardless of whether his attorney is sweet, mean, generous, or a shark unless you both agree otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Thornton
Hey Kass,

So sorry you are panicking. Have you consulted with a lawyer to see what your rights are? It shouldn’t really matter if he has a shark for a lawyer because state law trumps everything and there are usually child support calculators that determine all this stuff.

Thorn


Had a good cry and trying to calm down. Child support is 20% however my kids will age out in a a few years. I will get lifetime alimony I just don’t know how much. Some websites talk about calculating alimony based on expenses like hey you don’t need that much [censored] to be you. Eat your ramen noodles and be happy. Other websites take into consideration previous lifestyle meaning he can’t eat steak while I eat ramen noodles. The concern also is kids preferring the more well off parent.

My attorney doesn’t look at expenses she looks at income. She does this calculation where in the end we each have equal amounts of income. I’m not going to get 50% of his income. Not in this lifetime. Btw 50% includes child support. Once that ends I get 30%. My attorney knows 30% won’t work so she will have to negotiate increased alimony to replace child support.

Can you see why I’m worried? My life will be determined by which judge I get. Luck of the draw in chancery court. Is it a man who got screwed over? Is it someone who sees value in a homemaker? Who knows?

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Kas, it sounds really scary not knowing what the future will bring. As Thornton says—your attorney should be able to inform you about of your court’s guidelines for alimony and child support. That’s normally more or less what you get regardless of whether his attorney is sweet, mean, generous, or a shark unless you both agree otherwise.


I think it’s up to the judge on alimony. Also WAHs income varies and is from several sources. He could cut back on his hours. Move assets around. Retire. Argue some of it isn’t marital income (inheritance he commingled). In 3 years he gets a pension buyout. He holds all the cards.

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Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Kas… how sad that your mom doesn't recognize you. Or does she recognize you but is just acting as if she doesn't because she doesn't know what to say? Either way... I am sad for you. Parents do the worst things to their kids at times, don't they? Makes me angry sometimes. I've been working as a mental health social worker for 21 years and you would think that nothing would surprise me anymore but sadly, that's not the case. I hope things work out for you.


I’ve changed and she doesn’t recognize me. She’s been trying to get me back for 20 years so she would have said something. She’s 73 now and I don’t know maybe it’s time to give her another chance. It can’t be a coincidence that I’m moving near her. I have ZERO expectations though. None.

If I mend this relationship I get an instant extended family. My sister, her 2 kids, their spouses, and their kids. This would be no different than a reconciliation here. Slow, slow, slow. Thinking about opening a PO Box and writing her a short note. I’m beyond detached from all of them so I’m good regardless of what happens.

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Everything is kinda falling apart right now. My house is a wreck. I’m behind at work. I’m exhausted. My kids are sad and angry. D17 cries a lot. I cry a lot. S19 told me the reason he stayed is because of my mental health said he knew I’d fall apart after losing everything I worked for. He doesn’t see WAH much so I think there is some projection here.

WAH is living in la la land. Talks about how his kids are helping him through this. He rarely sees them but believes that will change after he gets his own place. Thinks he’s eventually going to have 2 kids living with him despite S19 continuing to tell him it’s only 1. He talks about them sleeping over like they are 5 years old and we will have a 50% split. S19 laughed at this. WAH will have been gone 7 months by the time he gets his own place. His father was like this. Saw himself as a good father as long as he provided.

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Originally Posted by kas99
I think it’s up to the judge on alimony. Also WAHs income varies and is from several sources. He could cut back on his hours. Move assets around. Retire. Argue some of it isn’t marital income (inheritance he commingled). In 3 years he gets a pension buyout. He holds all the cards.


I would suggest you assume you can't depend on income from him indefinitely and plan accordingly, because more than likely he will do exactly as you're saying and will retire or take a lesser job or something to minimize his part of the settlement. Are you working? If not, is there a reason for that? Maybe you can't until after the D is final since he could use it against you, but if that's the case then push through with D and then try to find employment. You mentioned that you had a career before, can you not resume that? I know it's been a while but I know women who have done exactly that after years of being a SAHM.

You keep repeating this mantra that your H holds all the cards and you have no control and it simply isn't true. You've got the power to control your life. You've got to get past this "victim mentality" as it is really crushing you. I know this is tough but many others have been in the exact same situation and not only survived it, but thrived afterwards. You can too.

Last edited by AnotherStander; 09/19/19 12:27 PM.

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I would suggest you assume you can't depend on income from him indefinitely and plan accordingly, because more than likely he will do exactly as you're saying and will retire or take a lesser job or something to minimize his part of the settlement. Are you working? If not, is there a reason for that?


I'm 53 years old and I was a homemaker for 15 years. I have a good job. I'm an office manager for a good sized office. Problems is wages haven't kept up with inflation so it takes half of what I make just to pay the rent. I have a budget and am preparing for the worst. I'm entitled to half his pension and at 30% of his rock bottom income before then. This is the number I start with. I will get lifetime alimony and this rock bottom number is all he wants to pay me. I get it. I'd have to make even more radical changes to my lifestyle but I could make it.

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You keep repeating this mantra that your H holds all the cards and you have no control and it simply isn't true. You've got the power to control your life. You've got to get past this "victim mentality" as it is really crushing you. I know this is tough but many others have been in the exact same situation and not only survived it, but thrived afterwards. You can too.


This is why I continue to post here. I need to revisit my contingency plan to ease my mind. This is terrible but part of why I'm considering reconciling with my family is for support. They've wanted me back for decades and it would be years before I needed them for a place to live. They've treated me terribly so I will not feel one ounce of guilt for using them for support.

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On my family I think I've changed enough to handle them. Maybe it will be a good thing to get my family back.

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I've been thinking a lot about my family since I got that house. 4 doors down how is that even possible? This cannot be a coincidence it just can't be.

I have no expectations no but I can imagine a life with my mom in it. I'm not the same person and she's not either I'm sure. Today I'm sending a her a short note asking if she'd like to talk and I gave her my email address. No return address or anything. I don't want her to know where I live yet. I don't even know if she still lives there but I've seen her around so I'm pretty sure she does. I'm sitting here with that envelope ready to mail and I feel zero anxiety.

I'm kidding about using them but it would be nice to have an extended family now. I can't use anyone its not who I am. Either we reconcile or we don't. I will not sell my soul for anything.

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Originally Posted by kas99
I have a good job. I'm an office manager for a good sized office. Problems is wages haven't kept up with inflation so it takes half of what I make just to pay the rent.


Oh well that is good, at least you have something going even if it's not optimal pay! Your H is going to have to supplement your income whether he thinks he will or not so between that and your job then hopefully you'll be set.

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I'm entitled to half his pension and at 30% of his rock bottom income before then. This is the number I start with. I will get lifetime alimony and this rock bottom number is all he wants to pay me. I get it. I'd have to make even more radical changes to my lifestyle but I could make it.


What he WANTS to pay you isn't really a factor. He may think it is, but the courts will think otherwise. I know you don't want D but you may need to push it through soon to protect yourself. If you start the process and he pulls any shenanigans like retiring or taking a lesser paying job then the court will not look favorably on that, they will assume he's trying to dodge full payment to you. But if you let it drag on and he pulls this stuff and THEN you file then you may be stuck with his new adjusted income as the basis for the calculations.

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This is terrible but part of why I'm considering reconciling with my family is for support. They've wanted me back for decades and it would be years before I needed them for a place to live. They've treated me terribly so I will not feel one ounce of guilt for using them for support.


That can be very emotionally draining (I've been through it with my dad) on top of what you are already going through. But if you think you can handle it then go for it. Maybe like you say it's not just a coincidence and there are powers at work here.


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Oh well that is good, at least you have something going even if it's not optimal pay! Your H is going to have to supplement your income whether he thinks he will or not so between that and your job then hopefully you'll be set.


I'd be making more than WAH had I not given up my career. Too old to get it back now. He knows he has to supplement my income and I am preparing for worst case scenario.

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What he WANTS to pay you isn't really a factor. He may think it is, but the courts will think otherwise. I know you don't want D but you may need to push it through soon to protect yourself. If you start the process and he pulls any shenanigans like retiring or taking a lesser paying job then the court will not look favorably on that, they will assume he's trying to dodge full payment to you. But if you let it drag on and he pulls this stuff and THEN you file then you may be stuck with his new adjusted income as the basis for the calculations.


In May I was trying to nice him back by accepting a lower amount and this is where his head is at. I'm still kind of confused as to why he hasn't filed. He's been planning this for years and was going to file asap (kids confirm this). I'm sure he will file soon it's just weird that's all.

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That can be very emotionally draining (I've been through it with my dad) on top of what you are already going through. But if you think you can handle it then go for it. Maybe like you say it's not just a coincidence and there are powers at work here.


Seeing them in person would be emotionally draining which is why I won't do that. I can email. I can also stop emailing. I cut them off for 20 years and can do it again just as easily. I've connected over the years with extended family like my mothers sister (email) but I wasn't healthy enough to handle it so I ended it. No remorse. No regret. The key to this is to make sure they can't find me until I'm sure it's safe.

I've checked the temperature 2 other times and both times I knew immediately it wasn't safe. I wonder if this is how WAH feels about me now. He's checked my temperature and I wasn't safe. 1000% better than I was but still sarcastic, negative and not detached. As long as I'm needy I'm not safe. I get it.

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Fear, obligation and guilt. These are my go to forms of communication when life doesn't go my way. Lots of people here do this so it's not just me. WAH ran, wants to have nothing to do with me so as long as I'm attached he will stay as far away from me as possible. Using obligation or guilt to get him back only repels him more. This is why NC is the best thing for me. The fasted way to detach is to keep him out of my life. He may never come back but if he does it won't be until I no longer care. If I don't care I won't need to manipulate him. I will have moved on.

I've sent 2 one line messages in 2 months and haven't seen him since July 20th. He responded to both these messages but I didn't answer back. I got lucky in that I blocked him on his work phone and forgot (oops) so I never saw the reply. The other one I knew I couldn't respond so I didn't. S19 has asked me about that email and I've blown him off. Not touching that email with a 10 foot pole. lol

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It sounds like you see a strong connection between your desire (or lack thereof) to communicate with your ex-family, and your ex-husband’s desire to communicate with you.

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
It sounds like you see a strong connection between your desire (or lack thereof) to communicate with your ex-family, and your ex-husband’s desire to communicate with you.


Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I think it's a good thing because it gives me perspective. I checked the temp with my parents and immediately they responded as if I didn't exist as a separate person. I feel this way about WAH now. As long as I feel like I can't survive without him I will not see him (or me) as a separate person.

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Originally Posted by "kas99"
I checked the temp with my parents and immediately they responded as if I didn't exist as a separate person.

You say 'parents', so I assume that was your previous attempt. As you attempt to reach out to your mom now, what are you looking for her to say or do, to indicate this time would be different?

Originally Posted by "kas99"
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

I see similarities--you give them chances on and off over the years. I see differences--anytime you or your ex are in healthy relationships, those temp checks won't happen or go anywhere.

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You say 'parents', so I assume that was your previous attempt. As you attempt to reach out to your mom now, what are you looking for her to say or do, to indicate this time would be different?


My father was the abuser and what's different now is that he died 7 years ago. I'll see what she's like now that he's been out of her life for a while. I have no expectations as I've been fully detached for over a decade.

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I see similarities--you give them chances on and off over the years. I see differences--anytime you or your ex are in healthy relationships, those temp checks won't happen or go anywhere.


I gave them two chances both within the first 2 years (ironic right?). I tried to find so called surrogate parents but it never happened. Had I been successful no I wouldn't have given them anymore chances. So yes if me or WAH find new partners temp checks will go nowhere.

After some thought I regretted the 2nd try. I had two babies by then so I sent them pictures as a way to guilt them into doing what I wanted (like that ever works). It was the expectations that crushed me.

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To those of you responding to my boring story I thank you. I keep falling into the pit but I can't give up. I am working hard to get better.

I mailed that note to my mom today and I have no anxiety whatsoever. I did have this fleeting thought that WAH would care but then I reminded myself that he doesn't. I drove by the house and yep I can see mom's house from mine. It's insane. I live in this large sprawling city with these huge neighborhoods and I end up living 4 doors down from her? I feel nothing but indifference towards her but still you have to admit this is so crazy.

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When WAH first left I sought other men to talk to. I needed to fill the void (that's passed now). So I checked my motives for reaching out to my mom and nope I'm past the part of trying to fill the void with unhealthy things. It's that darn house that put her into my brain.

As much as this hurts and as much as I hate change I'd rather do this right than have to do this again. I'm doomed to repeat the same mistakes if I don't fix this. I told my IC that I thought this was karma for all my bad behavior and she said if that were true then everything I'm doing now will my life thats positive will be transformed into peace.

I still want WAH to save me from this pain knowing full well that even if he came back today I'd still be in pain. I was in pain before he left and I'm in pain now. The difference is now I have a choice to either fix it or run from it because he's not here to heal me. I have to do it.

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Part of WAH's income may not be marital money. I contacted my attorney and she said it depends on the court. To live somewhere cheaper means living in an unsafe neighborhood. Think I'm going to stay in the safer place until I see how this plays out. I can always move in a year.

What he's offering is 37% of his base income so to make this work I had to cut the entire clothes budget, IC, every possible extra you can think of and all gifts. S19 and D17 will have to pay for their own clothes, gas, and entertainment.

It's rough but what doesn't kill me makes me stronger right?

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Do you live in an outlandishly expensive area? It seems like 37% of his income coupled with your own income from your job that you'd be in a pretty nice spot financially. Maybe you're in Cali? Seems like housing there is outrageous. In any event it seems unlikely you'd be able to get much more than that out of him so if that's his offer then you might consider going with it.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Do you live in an outlandishly expensive area? It seems like 37% of his income coupled with your own income from your job that you'd be in a pretty nice spot financially. Maybe you're in Cali? Seems like housing there is outrageous. In any event it seems unlikely you'd be able to get much more than that out of him so if that's his offer then you might consider going with it.


His base pay isn't much once you take out his other income. Rent and food alone take up 50% of my income including his offer.

For now I'll see what my attorney says but you know what it doesn't matter. This what he wants and I will make it work. What choice do I have?

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He planned this for years. Sold our house, paid off all our debts, I got a job and he stashed 20k that I can't touch. His D plan was executed brilliantly and the amount he's offering now is the same number I agreed to on May 2nd. He hired an attorney and it was all systems go.

He's been dreaming of getting rid of me for YEARS so what's the holdup? He could have been divorced by now.

I'm stumped.

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Originally Posted by "kas99"
His D plan was executed brilliantly

Hi Kas,

You sound like you're spinning--focusing on him being brilliant or stupid, hating or not caring about your actions. Hopefully you're on-track with your attorney to getting alimony/support by October 31st.

Originally Posted by "kas99"
He's been dreaming of getting rid of me for YEARS so what's the holdup?

With my ex-wife, my dreams were fulfilled as soon as I moved out with my kids. My dreams didn't involve judges. What does that get me? It was only when my dates got serious that I cared about it. Penalties can be imposed for unnecessary delays. If you feel you need the divorce completed quicker, if you need that to move on, your attorney can probably make it happen. It's still not Fast Food fast, but it can move steadily.

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You sound like you're spinning--focusing on him being brilliant or stupid, hating or not caring about your actions. Hopefully you're on-track with your attorney to getting alimony/support by October 31st.


I like to ask questions. Lots and lots of questions. Just last night D17 and S19 told me I ask stupid questions (true). My coworker says it's insecurity. It's probably because I'm trying to control the outcome. Learning to lean into uncertainty is a struggle for me but I am making progress.

I just sent my attorney the financial disclosure a week ago. It's all good and even if it's not WAH will pay the minimum. He will provide for his kids and I will work with that.

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With my ex-wife, my dreams were fulfilled as soon as I moved out with my kids. My dreams didn't involve judges. What does that get me? It was only when my dates got serious that I cared about it.


I can see this. If you don't mind me asking how soon did you file after you moved out?

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Originally Posted by "Kas99"
I can see this. If you don't mind me asking how soon did you file after you moved out?

I filed 3 days after deciding on divorce. Serving her was how I announced the divorce. Within 30 days we had an agreement and me and the kids were out! Finishing it? Years. After all, we had a working agreement, so I didn't care much about, "There's an Exhibit A and C, but not a B. Please re-letter and re-submit." or "Please also attach a form 8086 that confirms your children's identities with social security numbers."

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In retrospect, maybe she wouldn't have messaged me for years if I'd given her the closure of divorce earlier. After getting away from her, minimizing her discomfort wasn't on my mind for a spell.

I remember a year after I filed she saw me with someone and initially sent angry e-mails about how I was sleeping with someone while married, and then happy ones that I'd found someone who could give me what she never could. Both messages felt bizarre, given the long separation, and it was just a casual thing.

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In retrospect, maybe she wouldn't have messaged me for years if I'd given her the closure of divorce earlier. After getting away from her, minimizing her discomfort wasn't on my mind for a spell.


She hadn't read DB because if she had she would have gone dark. lol I'm grateful I got closure without the D. I knew if he moved us it was over.

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I remember a year after I filed she saw me with someone and initially sent angry e-mails about how I was sleeping with someone while married, and then happy ones that I'd found someone who could give me what she never could. Both messages felt bizarre, given the long separation, and it was just a casual thing.


That is bizarre but I get it. She still wanted you back. I'm thinking anger then she took it back by being happy for you.

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I filed 3 days after deciding on divorce. Serving her was how I announced the divorce. Within 30 days we had an agreement and me and the kids were out! Finishing it? Years.


Why did you wait so long to finish the D? The woman who teaches my DBT class moved out and didn't file for 3 years. She says she wanted him to file but he never did (no kids). She filed after she met someone.

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Originally Posted by "kas99"
Why did you wait so long to finish the D? She filed after she met someone.

I know many single parents--meeting someone serious is commonly why we complete a divorce! Before that it's like.. why bother? So many higher items on the ToDo list--work, kids, dating, travel, etc.

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Originally Posted by "Kas99"
She hadn't read DB because if she had she would have gone dark. lol I'm grateful I got closure without the D. I knew if he moved us it was over.

I think she went more "dark" than many here. I checked my e-mails.. I BD'd her in Jan---got 2 e-mails in Feb, 1 in Mar, 2 in Apr.. the silence continued until Sep. That's when she began sending 1-2 messages per week. I never read any. Based on the titles she apologized, entered therapy, wondered why I wouldn't even talk to her. I'm aghast. My heart must have been really hardened at that point.

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I know many single parents--meeting someone serious is commonly why we complete a divorce! Before that it's like.. why bother? So many higher items on the ToDo list--work, kids, dating, travel, etc.


Seems cruel to the LBS. I guess that's why so many times the LBS has to file. They get sick of being some sort of Plan B.

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I think she went more "dark" than many here. I checked my e-mails.. I BD'd her in Jan---got 2 e-mails in Feb, 1 in Mar, 2 in Apr.. the silence continued until Sep. That's when she began sending 1-2 messages per week. I never read any. Based on the titles she apologized, entered therapy, wondered why I wouldn't even talk to her. I'm aghast. My heart must have been really hardened at that point.


You were the one that said if she changed there was a slim chance. I have too much dignity to email WAH. I'd rather sit here all alone than email him.

I was reading Sandi's rules and laughed at the stay out bars one. I met a guy after WAH left. Online but he was going to visit in Sept. It ended and deleted/blocked everything. Right now if I had a way to contact him I'd be tempted. My kids are out and it's just me.

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Originally Posted by "Kas99"
Seems cruel to the LBS. I guess that's why so many times the LBS has to file. They get sick of being some sort of Plan B.

Like I said, I'm aghast I didn't finish it sooner to give her closure. Maybe it's the "F" in my personality type, but when I was DONE, I stopped thinking about her as a person. My son's leaving for a one week trip next week. I have custody both before he leaves and after he returns, but she just picked him up. I decided to show her what I packed and let her add an item or two. It's time to treat my ex-wife like a human being instead of an alien, especially if I maybe acted like an alien after the divorce.

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Like I said, I'm aghast I didn't finish it sooner to give her closure. Maybe it's the "F" in my personality type, but when I was DONE, I stopped thinking about her as a person.


D17 who has disowned WAH has an "F" in her personality type (assuming this is what you're talking about). She's an INFJ and that type is known for door slamming. WAH thinks she will come back but like you when she's done she's done. She will see him and be civil but that's it.

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Originally Posted by "Kas99"
Right now if I had a way to contact him I'd be tempted. My kids are out and it's just me.

I have too much dignity to email WAH. I'd rather sit here all alone than email him.

You do have some dignity in you! And I still believe she had chances. If you were closer, I'd invite you for a jog. I hope you find a way to spend your evening that helps you move on from your past, builds towards your future, or is just plain fun. I'm tempted to read those e-mails, but it wouldn't do any of those.

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You do have some dignity in you! And I still believe she had chances. If you were closer, I'd invite you for a jog. I hope you find a way to spend your evening that helps you move on from your past, builds towards your future, or is just plain fun. I'm tempted to read those e-mails, but it wouldn't do any of those.


I'm watching cartoons (they don't make me sad), texting a friend and chatting with you. Yes I'm multitasking. lol

I think my evenings will get easier once I move.

I wish I could go for a jog. sigh. I wouldn't read those emails but I'm funny about that.

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You do have some dignity in you!


Somewhere along the way I lost my dignity. I chased, begged, and pleaded for WAH (before he left) to love me. I was so codependent. I look back on that person and I cringe. I think now no wonder WAH lost interest in me. I became this sad, pathetic person.

Once upon a time I was stronger than this. It's who WAH fell in love with. I used to be fierce and then over the years I lost it. It's coming back slowly but surely. I'm doing things now that even shock me, that shock my kids. You should have seen the looks on their faces when I told them I rented a house. I don't rent houses. lol

Back in the day I was top in my field, sought after, traveled, the whole nine. Used to work on my own car. I'd attempt anything because I was fearless. Now I'm afraid to rent a house. Really?? If people at work hadn't talked me into it I'd be moving into an apartment.

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WAH still hasn’t found a place to live. I feel guilty about the money. I knew it was going to go down like this but still.

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The feeling guilty probably means you're NOT a door-slammer, and still care and want the best for him? He made this bed and, per what we've heard, has only shown interest in laying in it.

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
The feeling guilty probably means you're NOT a door-slammer, and still care and want the best for him? He made this bed and, per what we've heard, has only shown interest in laying in it.


I feel guilty getting my attorney involved (he doesn’t know yet).

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As long as I was still in the house with both our names on it I didn't need an attorney but I did hire one just in case. He's been paying all the bills and giving me child support. It's easy for him to say "I'll take care of you" because he knows what his plans are. I don't. We no longer speak so I'm supposed to go on blind faith that the checks will keep coming? He will support his kids but would dump me on the side of the road if he could.

I almost didn't get this house because I don't make enough money and had no court order. I want a separation agreement now. My biggest fear is that it will push him to file but it's just a piece of paper. Our marriage is over.

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My mom emailed me back. Now what? Lol

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Ever worry about privacy on here?

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A generic topic getting better. I think about things I need to fix. My latest challenge is to stop being a victim and to stop being negative. I’m trying to stop complaining and stop being a Debbie downer. These thoughts come into my head and I have bite my tongue to not say these things. Like here I want to whine.

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I’m 6 months out and I’m backsliding. D14 has chosen to live with WAH. He’s pursued her, promised her the moon and now I feel like she’s pulling away. People here said I’m not losing her but I am. WAH is out there having a grand old time without me. He is happier than me and the kids won’t want to spend time with me. D14 will be an only child and who wouldn’t love that? She will get his full attention, something I can’t give her with 3 kids. He will have more money than me so he can afford to take them on vacations or other fun things. I can’t compete with that. He knows more people than me. Has more resources than me. The deck is stacked in his favor. On my current budget I’ll be lucky to buy food. His plan to remove me from his life and our kids lives will be easy once he gets a house.

Only some of this is true but my dark thoughts are strong. I’ve lost everything even S19 said that. Said it’s the reason he’s standing by me. He doesn’t want me to die.

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He got them a really great present. D14 is a princess, the baby of the family, likes nice things, things I can't afford anymore. At first WAH's actions were to take his money and leave. If they needed anything he made them come to him. He'd take D14 shopping and out to eat. This was how he got her to spend time with him. D14 came up with this plan that we'd shop (it's a mom thing), she'd pick out what she wanted then when he took her out she'd pretend and got him to buy it. WAH hates to shop. Soon he started giving me child support and now we share the shopping. D14 worked out a new plan where he buys the expensive things like shoes and I took her to consignment stores.

I'm being ridiculous. D14 and WAH both have this vision of how this is going to go down and while he might pull it off in the beginning it's not sustainable. I think he's going to have to pay me more than he wants to which will put us on equal grounds. He also works a lot and D14 will be lonely. I'm not even sure how he's going to get her to/from school everyday without the bus (to rent a house he will have to go outside the district).

WAH is an overly optimistic dreamer. Always has been. Me and the older kids think he's sold D14 a bill of goods that he can't deliver. This won't be the first time he's done this to her since he left. Out of the 3 kids she's the only one who doesn't quite see how this is going to play out. She's got stars in her eyes - I can tell by what she says that WAH has promised her a great life. She will have a great life eventually just not as soon as she thinks.

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Hey Kas, WAH is out there having a grand old time without me.

Originally Posted by “Kas99”
WAH is out there having a grand old time without me.

A couple posts ago, he was having a miserable time after moving out.

Originally Posted by “Kas99”
I have bite my tongue to not say these things. Like here I want to whine.

When I bite my tongue, the pressure builds. I think the trick is to actually not focus on them—whether he will or won’t succeed, how he will or won’t fulfill his promises to his daughter or get her to school.

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A couple posts ago, he was having a miserable time after moving out.


I change the narrative in my head unless the kids tell me otherwise. His misery is from working so much which he says will end once he moves.

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When I bite my tongue, the pressure builds. I think the trick is to actually not focus on them—whether he will or won’t succeed, how he will or won’t fulfill his promises to his daughter or get her to school.


She's my kid so it's hard. This whole time I was convinced that this would never happen (expectations I know). He promised her something else that I knew wouldn't happen either. At some point he had me (via D14) actually believing he might actually come through. After she got the rejection letter I realized he found a loophole. He found a way to say no without being the bad guy. I was impressed actually.

So here we are in the 11th hour and its hard to stay out of this.

Last edited by kas99; 09/23/19 04:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by kas99
Ever worry about privacy on here?


I can only think of two instances where people here had their WAS discover their posts here and in both cases it was because they had forgotten and left a browser open at home with this site open and they were logged in, and their WAS found it. A lot of people are worried their WAS will do a Google search and find their posts here but it's highly unlikely since we don't use names or cities or anything. Sometimes I will try to find the posts of someone I know posts on here and can't find them. It's like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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I can only think of two instances where people here had their WAS discover their posts here and in both cases it was because they had forgotten and left a browser open at home with this site open and they were logged in, and their WAS found it. A lot of people are worried their WAS will do a Google search and find their posts here but it's highly unlikely since we don't use names or cities or anything. Sometimes I will try to find the posts of someone I know posts on here and can't find them. It's like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack.


I googled something and a post of mine showed up from another board. Scary right?

Some boards (not this one) show up in google searches if you ask the right question.

Last edited by kas99; 09/23/19 05:13 PM.
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Here I waffle between reading life after D forums or piecing. Too broken to read Newcomers.

I finally found a situation that is the closest to mine on here. Before you blast me for this I hated the story. The post is too old so I can't follow the story but the gist of it is he left (I think) because she was mentally ill. Angry, controlling, depressed, the whole nine.

He came back yes but not for 2.5 years and not until she got better.

Here is why I hated the story. I want a shortcut. I want to avoid the pain. I don't want to do the work. I want to be rescued. I want guarantees. I want fast results. I want a pill that turns me into a great person. And if I can't have this I start fantasizing about dying. No I'm not suicidal I'm looking for a way out.

kas99 #2866299 09/24/19 03:43 PM
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Questions:

Signed the lease today and will move me and D17 on October 5th.

My only issue is D14. She's chosen to live with WAH and he doesn't have a place yet. That leaves her at the house alone with S19 which isn't a bad thing except I'm taking the entire kitchen contents (he's getting all the furniture). S19 is moving in with me during the week. D14 could stay with me until WAH gets a place or WAH could move into the house after I leave.

I do not have a place for her to sleep. Air mattress? Couch? A trundle bed would work in my room but I don't have the money for that.

It makes more sense for S19 to live with WAH but that isn't up to me.

Any other ideas?

Last edited by kas99; 09/24/19 03:46 PM.
kas99 #2866319 09/24/19 05:00 PM
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Have you checked any freecycle sites ? Maybe a charity can help ? It may be that for D14 staying with WAH is a way in her mind to keep the family together. I’ve read that if you write down 5 things you are grateful in the morning for this can give a lift

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D14 is the baby of the family. She's a princess, spoiled and is following the money. She texts WAH all day everyday to suck up. When she found out I was renting a house she immediately said she was moving in with me as opposed to him/apartment but then she realized she could manipulate WAH into one upping me (her own words). She sent him a link to this big, nice house with 4 bedrooms that she wants. S19 told me last night that WAH is trying to rent that house.

S19 (aspergers) asked me "what about the rest of us" meaning I rented a tiny, old house. I explained factually that WAH has more money than me. He then asked "why not me?". He spends time with WAH because he wants to not because of some bribe. I didn't badmouth WAH but I didn't defend him either. I sincerely told S19 I would understand if he wanted to live in the nicer house. S19 has a car and will be living close by so I'd see him plenty for dinners and do his laundry (WAH works a lot).

S19 said no, called us the "small house group". Said it didn't matter because after college he'd get his own place anyway. True.

I get WAH for doing anything to keep one kid close. D17 has disowned him and S19 is busy. What WAH doesn't realize is that he's further alienating the other 2 by playing favorites. He also doesn't realize that once D14 gets what she wants the sucking up will stop. She'll retreat back to her room, her social media stardom, and her friends. It's what she does now. The tables will turn and she will suck up to me to bring her to my house often because its more "fun" (her words) and she will be lonely. I raised 2 great kids so I'm not sure where I went wrong with D14.

WAH thinks the house will entice S19 to move in with him (his words). S19 said no. The house isn't in the school district so I have no idea how he will get D14 to school and back. Not my problem but dang what a mess.


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Originally Posted by kas99
It makes more sense for S19 to live with WAH but that isn't up to me. I’ve lost everything even S19 said that. Said it’s the reason he’s standing by me. He doesn’t want me to die.

It CAN be up to the parents even at 19/20/21. Co-parents who want to accomplish this provide a bedroom and Internet at one house but not the other. That can work when co-parents are cooperating.

Originally Posted by kas99
D14 is the baby of the family. She's a princess, spoiled and is following the money.

If I read correctly, you've decided your three kids will each live with one parent or the other, and as they grapple with divorce you're asking them to pick sides. You believe your son is staying with you because he doesn't want you to die, and your daughter is staying with him because he can afford a nicer home.

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It CAN be up to the parents even at 19/20/21. Co-parents who want to accomplish this provide a bedroom and Internet at one house but not the other. That can work when co-parents are cooperating.


WAH won't commit to anything. When asked a direct question about the kids living arrangements he ignores it so I quit asking. If I discuss this with the kids they tell him and then he ups the ante to maintain control.

CW in his plan to leave me he thought he'd have all 3 because I'm mentally ill. Honestly I thought the same thing. What neither of us counted on was I got better so now he's scrambling to come up with a new plan. He doesn't have one (yet) and this is why he won't answer my questions.

Quote
If I read correctly, you've decided your three kids will each live with one parent or the other, and as they grapple with divorce you're asking them to pick sides. You believe your son is staying with you because he doesn't want you to die, and your daughter is staying with him because he can afford a nicer home.


I'm the one who screwed this up (before I started taking the new medications) but I've since taken it back. I didn't see it as picking sides (at the time) I saw it as choosing where they wanted to live so they could have their own bedroom (3 kids/me - 3 bedrooms). I'm an idiot. A true idiot. I thought logically not emotionally. I feel terrible.

It gets worse. I encouraged S19 to live with WAH because it made more sense not once considering how he felt about it. I've since found out he's protective of me (depression) and he's not ready to be away from me (special needs). He seemed more grown up than he really is so I was blindsided. I then told him if he wanted to stay with me I'd make it work. He said he does want his own bedroom so his solution is to spend most of his time with me (WAH works a lot). He will live 5 minutes from me so it's doable. He knows now I WILL find a place for him to sleep even if that means I sleep in the living room. My kids come first.

Meanwhile D14 has come to the realization that WAH will continue to spoil her and I won't (I quit recreational shopping and he can't say no). D14 then made her claim that she wanted to live with him. I don't think WAH wants this but I don't think he can say no. S19 then decided he would live anywhere she ISN'T. He doesn't get along with D14 and doesn't want to babysit her while WAH is working all the time. D17 is living with me so this is between S19 and D14.

......meanwhile I have NO idea what WAH is doing or thinking. S19 says he is winging it and has no plan. Says he's working 16 hour days. D14 tells me he's promising her the moon. WAH has given notice to the rental company that we are moving out (I got cc'd on this). I then scrambled to find a place to live - signed the lease yesterday - moving next Saturday.

See its a mess.

Last edited by kas99; 09/25/19 05:25 PM.
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I think of that movie Hope Floats when the daughter wants to live with her father. The mom starts to talk some sense in her but instead stops and lets her figure it out for herself. Father picks his new gf and drives off...

This is where I'm at. If I fight D14 she will resent me so my best course of action is to let this play out.

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Why wouldn’t you have shared custody with your 14 yr old?

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Originally Posted by LH19
Why wouldn’t you have shared custody with your 14 yr old?


I'm an unusual parent in that I'm not going to push D14 to spend time with me. I'm not going to participate in her playing WAH and I against each other. I'm not going to entice her, bribe her or make her feel guilty. She has joined WAH in fantasy land about how great life is going to be and all attempts to convince her otherwise have failed. If anything I made it worse so I've decided to drop the rope.

It's not personal. D17 stopped talking to him so he's clinging to D14 as if his life depended on it. It's sad to use this analogy but for WAH it will be like leaving me for OW. He ran away from his family and his responsibilities (6 months ago) so after the initial high of having a kid live with him full time he will lose interest when the fantasy fails to materialize. He wants to be a disney dad but he hates amusement parks.

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Wow K I really hope your not giving up time to spend with your D and try to use her as a pawn so your STBXs fantasy land crashes.

I would have never settled for less then 50/50.

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Originally Posted by LH19
Wow K I really hope your not giving up time to spend with your D and try to use her as a pawn so your STBXs fantasy land crashes.

I would have never settled for less then 50/50.


I’ve already been through this once with D14 and WAH. At times he gets desperate. If I fight him over D14 when he’s like this he digs in his heels determined to beat me however the biggest mistake he made was moving out. In becoming a better person I’ve bonded with the kids in ways he can’t understand. His present focus is on a fantasy, a selfishness, a view of how single life is supposed to go. Instead of building an actual relationship, an actual life he chooses short cuts. So he takes D14 to the mall every weekend for a month. Once the novelty wears off and his wallet is empty D14 comes back home to me. This is his pattern.

Most LBS know that lasting change takes time and effort. My WAH isn’t changing he thinks I’m the problem. He’s fired up now and desperate because we are moving. So yes I will give up time in the short run but he will lose patience....again and she’ll end up with me. Relationships take work and he’s tired from working 16 hours a day to divorce me. S19 said tonight he gets the better house but I get the family and I didn’t have to buy them.

I’m not settling for anything I’m simply outsmarting him.

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Our kids are collateral damage. I can push for 50/50 but I don't want to make D14 live with me. WAH can push for 50/50 but he won't make D17 or S19 live with him either. Right now both D17 and S19 are pissed at him. Even if he forced them via a court order all they'd do is get more resentful, more angry same with D14. It's too high of a price to enforce 50/50.

The ugly part of my divorce is that I potentially lose one kid and he loses two. By lose I mean our custody with be 90/10 towards the non custodian parent. D17 has disowned him and S19 sees him once a week. On the low end I will see D14 a few hours a week as well. This is my reality, and his.

I've read hundreds of these stories and this is how it plays out. Sad but this is what WAH wants and we both have to live with the consequences.

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Sorry Kas but I’m a straight shooter. You’re using your children as pawns to get your husband back and not only will that not work but you will damage your children. My friends parents did that and he still is in therapy 35 years later.

As the adult, explain to your 14 year old that it is important for her to see both parents equally. Talk to your 17 old on how this isn’t all dads fault and she should have a relationship with him.

Please put your children first.

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I’ve been very open about being mentally ill. He told the kids he left because I’m “crazy”. True then he leaves them with me for 6 months. Not his wisest decision. I’m working hard to get better but it isn’t going to happen overnight. If I were this kind, wonderful person he wouldn’t have left and unless I can get an outpatient lobotomy I’m stuck with working through this on my own.

This makes me cry. I don’t think D14 needs me in her life. S19 also believed his father was a good man until 2 days ago and I had nothing to do with that. Am I crazy or is WAH a jerk? D17 is full of rage. I’m sure I’m to blame somehow for that too. Depending on how much money I have I’ll get her into therapy. WAH won’t answer me so I’m on my own.

Doing the best I can even if my best is horrible.

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By leaving them with me I mean he left without having an actual place for the kids to visit for 7 months (by the time he gets a place).

I've gotten to the place where I think beating myself over my shortcomings isn't helpful. My IC last night called me out on calling myself "crazy". I can sit here in the victim chair feeling sorry for myself or I can change. I am choosing to change but its not easy. The victim chair is very comfy.

I celebrate the small victories and I'm building on those. Silly things---things most people take for granted. Hey I cooked instead sitting on the couch depressed. I played a video game. I laugh, I sing out loud, I hug and I say I love you every single day. My kids are happy with me.

With WAH I've graduated to (mostly) being positive and I am proud of this. I find when I say negative things I feel bad. This is good progress I think means I'm learning I'm aware of the difference. Before I was nonstop negative so I didn't have the contrast.

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Ok WAH will answer me (sometimes). When my car was broken down? Ignored. I asked him to enroll S19 in college. He did it. Asked him to do the residency requirement. Did that too. When I couldn't get an apartment on my own? Ignored.

Common thread - me. If it has to do with me he ignores me. But what he doesn't understand is my kids are watching. Always watching. When my car was broken down all 3 of them were right there. When I was crying over not being able to get an apartment. They saw that too. I try to hide when I'm crying but sometimes its unavoidable.

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Hi Kas99,

I get it’s a complex situation and you’re trying your best. Unless one parent is unable or unwilling, courts and society now generally try to keep siblings together and kids living 50/50 with both parents, to maintain and nurture all of these important relationships.

You know vastly more about the specifics or your situation, and clearly your ex isn’t as invested in parenting as you.

Originally Posted by “Kas99”
”I'm not going to participate in her playing WAH and I against each other. So yes I will give up time in the short run but he will lose patience....again and she’ll end up with me. I’m not settling for anything I’m simply outsmarting him.


It sounds like a high-stakes game—trying to “outsmart” your co-parent. Is the most important score how many kids you win, or how many close family relationships each child emerges with?

My kids don’t try to pit me and my ex against each other over custody—there’s no point. We have a custody order. Where they stay isn’t decided by day-to-day feelings about this perk or that restriction.

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I emailed my mother last weekend after being estranged for 20 years. She was on her best behavior but something was off. I had IC and she asked me "what were the red flags?" I never looked at it that way but yes there were two. In a handful of emails I knew she hadn't changed.

Now that I'm closer to my kids I see how they too can read me like a book. If my insides don't match my outsides they ask. WAH used to do this but I didn't understand it. I do now. My kids want reassurance that I'm safe. When they do this (and it happens more often than I wish it did) I have 3 choices. I can be honest (they don't need to know how dark my thoughts are), I can lie (that never works) or I can change.

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I get it’s a complex situation and you’re trying your best. Unless one parent is unable or unwilling, courts and society now generally try to keep siblings together and kids living 50/50 with both parents, to maintain and nurture all of these important relationships.

You know vastly more about the specifics or your situation, and clearly your ex isn’t as invested in parenting as you.


Thank you for challenging my thinking. For the past 6 months since WAH left the kids have stayed together. As of next Saturday that is changing. WAH is planning on them swapping back and forth I'm the one that just doesn't see that happening. D14 will go back and forth yes but D17 and S19 are too old. D17 has a best friend whose parents are divorced. Her parents live within walking distance of each other. They did one week on, one week off for years until she became a teenager. She now lives with her mom full time. I get this. I don't get two almost legal adults going back and forth between houses. I believe whether he (or I) likes it or not those relationships will change. Maybe I'm being too negative I don't know.

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It sounds like a high-stakes game—trying to “outsmart” your co-parent. Is the most important score how many kids you win, or how many close family relationships each child emerges with?


WAH isn't as invested as in parenting as I am. He wasn't before and he isn't now. His job always came first. When he makes plans with them he's late. Maybe he will get his act together I don't know. I will try to keep an open mind. What I will say is he has got to stop digging holes. He gains some ground after moving out but then he blows it with one text. I am of course the one left to pick up the pieces.

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My kids don’t try to pit me and my ex against each other over custody—there’s no point. We have a custody order. Where they stay isn’t decided by day-to-day feelings about this perk or that restriction


Again how is a court order going to make two almost adults swap houses or spend time with either of us?

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Assuming one kid with WAH and two with me. I know ....I know but I don't have 4 bedrooms.

Lets imagine that S19 chooses to live with WAH. He's old enough to go away to college so to me its unreasonable to expect him to swap houses. If this scenario happened he'd probably eat dinner with me a few nights a week but then he'd go home. WAH will live 5 minutes away and S19 would prefer to sleep in his own bed in his own room. If WAH worked all weekend he'd come hang out with us to keep from being lonely.

Lets imagine that D17 chose to live with him. During the week she's busy. Homework, after school activities, friends, down time, shower, makes her lunch, etc. If this scenario happened I'd see her on the weekends. She might also drop by some during the week. She has her own car like S19 and again WAH will live 5 minutes away.

If it's D14 which is the current scenario this one is tricky because she can't drive. I don't think I will see her much. She says she will visit but I'm not going to get my hopes up. I think I'm going to lose her.

I don't know where you live but this is common here. This one kids father moved away and she sees him one week a year at summer maybe a couple of holidays. I only know ONE family that has managed to keep kids together after a divorce. Usually the way it works here is mom gets the kids while the dad drifts away and makes a new family. There was one father that got the kids and she drifted away, got a new family so I don't think it's gender specific. That idiot friend of WAH's mom got the kid and yep he started a new family.

Divorce stinks.

Last edited by kas99; 09/26/19 10:54 PM.
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I've gotten D17 serious about packing. S19 doesn't want me to move his things. Says he will do it. He's asked WAH to move his bed because he has to work all next weekend. WAH agreed. I'm overwhelmed because I have 2 days to get us fully moved out. D17 reminds me that we aren't taking many things. She's one of those ray of sunshine people so she's focusing on the positives. I want to be like her so I tell her she's right and I let it go.

D17 and S19 have come a long way in 6 months. WAH used to complain about not having help from them but the dynamic is different now. He tried to try to assign chores but now we work as a team. I don't ask for help often so this is all them. D14 doesn't help as much but she tries.


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I just realized after hitting post reply that I felt good focusing on the positives. I'm understanding what D17, my IC and people here have been trying to tell me. Being negative makes me feel bad and repels people. Radical concept right? This epiphany just hit me. Wow.

How have I made it 53 years and not understand this most basic of concepts? I get it though I was clinically depressed up until 6 months ago.

Wow. Just wow.

kas99 #2866584 09/27/19 04:35 PM
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Journal post. I'm making an effort to actually work today and now I feel like crying. Its like my brain fights again doing or feeling anything positive. Here I get positive feedback almost immediately so why is this so hard? I have no doubt it's connected to past trauma I just can't figure out the source yet.

At home with my kids I know if I don't do this I will lose them....again and I don't want that. The pain of that potential loss is greater than the pain of change.

At work the pain of change is higher than the pain of staying the same.

WTH?

Sadly I've had this problem my entire life. It's why I couldn't make lasting change.

kas99 #2866589 09/27/19 05:25 PM
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If change were easy, we'd all make 7 figures, look like rock stars, and have great relationships with the loves of our lives. You're trying. Everyday! That's something to be proud about.

Last edited by CWarrior; 09/27/19 05:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by CWarrior
If change were easy, we'd all make 7 figures, look like rock stars, and have great relationships with the loves of our lives. You're trying. Everyday! That's something to be proud about.


True. lol Thank you for this. The narrative in my head is "I can't do this". With that in mind I've forced myself to work despite the inertia. I've done this in the past plenty of times successfully to achieve goals but I had to want it bad enough (like with my kids).

This isn't quite DB related but in my mind it is. Had WAH not left I would not be doing any of this.

Last edited by kas99; 09/27/19 06:35 PM.
kas99 #2866626 09/27/19 09:59 PM
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D14 is having dinner tonight with WAH, first time in weeks. They will be discussing my move which I hate. It needs to be done of course because she wants to live with him. I emphasized to D14 that my plans are tentative. People say they are going to help me move furniture but I can't 100% guarantee it. I can't afford movers so I'm at the mercy of friends or WAH.

I'll be glad when the move is over. After this I shouldn't have to see or talk to him again for years. Our divorce can be done through our attorney's since the only thing we have to negotiate is alimony. Right?

Last edited by kas99; 09/27/19 10:00 PM.
kas99 #2866627 09/27/19 10:07 PM
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K,

You have a 14 year old daughter so you are going to have to talk to him. Stop planning, plotting, trying to punish him and put your kids needs first.

kas99 #2866630 09/27/19 10:13 PM
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Hi Kas99,

Originally Posted by "Kas99"
After this I shouldn't have to see or talk to him again for years.

No. That's fantasy. You have a D14. Even if you choose not to exercise your rights to physical custody, you're co-responsible for her legally at least until she's 18. And, even if you could waive all legal responsibilities, you still are her only mother. Expect child-centric communication and negotiations for 7+ years.

Last edited by CWarrior; 09/27/19 10:20 PM.
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No. That's fantasy. You have a D14. Even if you choose not to exercise your rights to physical custody, you're co-responsible for her legally at least until she's 18. And, even if you could waive all legal responsibilities, you still are her only mother. Expect child-centric communication and negotiations for 7+ years.


He takes them to dinner once a week and then he leaves. Been this way for 6 months.

He will have D14 yes and with her we will parallel parent. No communication necessary.

kas99 #2866698 09/28/19 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by "Kas99"
Ok WAH will answer me (sometimes). When my car was broken down? Ignored. I asked him to enroll S19 in college. He did it. Asked him to do the residency requirement. Did that too. When I couldn't get an apartment on my own? Ignored.


Originally Posted by "Kas99"
I saw the house yesterday so it’s official now. D14 knows now it’s official but doesn’t know where it is. She will tell WAH everything she knows.


Originally Posted by "Kas99"
Been this way for 6 months. He will have D14 yes and with her we will parallel parent. No communication necessary.

Hrm, that doesn't even sound like what's happening now? You two communicated about colleges, and you two seem to rely on your children as an e-mail substitute. (I don't have much experience with this--I told my kids early on if their Mom has something to say, she has my phone and e-mail info.)

D14 is your daughter even if you give up physical custody, just as D17 is his daughter. That implies legal limits to what he or you can do without the others' consent. Normal items co-parents discuss include travel, grades, religion, health, friends, extra-curriculars, and discipline. Also, you or he may go on trips or have work schedules where what's best for the child is staying at the other home (even while the devil on the other shoulder may want to 'stick it to them' by making them pay for a babysitter.) You or he may be better at some parenting issues (e.g., homework or menstrual cycles), or may need to backup each other and work together on other issues to achieve what's best for your kid.

Most divorced parents communicate for the sake of their kids. The quantity and quality of that communication of course differs radically and changes as there's space from the breakup.

Last edited by CWarrior; 09/28/19 07:42 PM.
kas99 #2866701 09/28/19 09:05 PM
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Kas... I get the feeling of not wanting to communicate with the WAH. No contact does help. But...as others have said...when you share children, that just isn’t realistic. Sooner or later, you will have to, at minimum, exchange text messages as there are always logistics to work out. From what you said about the messages he responds to and the ones he ignores. Hate to say it... but it looks like he tends to respond to messages that require him to be a dad and ignores the ones that require him to be a husband. He has clearly quit doing that job at this point. My advice....stop setting yourself up for disappointment and only communicate with him about the kids. My XH and I probably message each other five of seven days a week. It is all about the kids and we keep it very short and to the point. It gets easier as your feelings fade and you realize you will be okay no matter what. There is a peace that comes with knowing that. Keep working on it. You will get there. (((HUGS)))

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Hrm, that doesn't even sound like what's happening now? You two communicated about colleges, and you two seem to rely on your children as an e-mail substitute. (I don't have much experience with this--I told my kids early on if their Mom has something to say, she has my phone and e-mail info.)


He played nice for 2 weeks and he's been back to radio silence for the past 2 months. WAH is my kryptonite and he hates me so yes we've allowed our kids to coordinate the move. This will end next Saturday once I'm out of here.

Quote
D14 is your daughter even if you give up physical custody, just as D17 is his daughter. That implies legal limits to what he or you can do without the others' consent. Normal items co-parents discuss include travel, grades, religion, health, friends, extra-curriculars, and discipline. Also, you or he may go on trips or have work schedules where what's best for the child is staying at the other home (even while the devil on the other shoulder may want to 'stick it to them' by making them pay for a babysitter.) You or he may be better at some parenting issues (e.g., homework or menstrual cycles), or may need to backup each other and work together on other issues to achieve what's best for your kid.


We can't co-parent which is why we parallel parent. We each parent our own way on our own time unless it's a true emergency. No communication necessary. I'm home by 5:08. Everyday. I buy groceries on the weekend and run errands on my lunch break. I'm broke so I don't go anywhere. If D14 needs to stay with me because he has to work late she will text me and I'll go get her. Anytime.

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My advice....stop setting yourself up for disappointment and only communicate with him about the kids.


He's ignores texts about the kids too. He even ignores their texts too (sometimes). Can't tell you how many times I've told them "ask your dad" and they say "he isn't answering". One time I said "I'm at work, call him, he has that information and it would be faster that way". I got "he isn't fast either, told me he'd call me later". So I dropped everything (they really did need this asap) and handled it.

WAH has become a work-a-holic, travels almost every week, got a 2nd job, I'm getting past due notices on his bills, and he's got 3 weeks to find a place to live.

At the moment I'm the only stability the kids have.

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At the moment I'm the only stability the kids have.


Well there you go you have your mission and purpose smile


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
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Originally Posted by rooskers
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At the moment I'm the only stability the kids have.


Well there you go you have your mission and purpose smile


Thank you. Today is rough. I’m surrounded by boxes, D17s friends bailed on her, and the sad thoughts are chasing me.

I keep up with your story because we both have kids struggling with being left behind. Your story haunts me.

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Last edited by job; 09/29/19 06:39 PM. Reason: added link to new thread

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