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A Message from Michele
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Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865021
09/11/19 07:34 PM
09/11/19 07:34 PM
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Firemann, my hairs are raised as I read your updates:

Originally Posted by firemann

She was offered additional hours at work and asked if I could start taking care of them/cooking for them every Weds as a result. I agreed...

Look, get as much time with your kids as you can, be dad of the year. But you're not a babysitter or caretaker, you're not there to enable your W. This is cake eating - she wants you to do for her while she doesn't for you.
Originally Posted by firemann

and also offered to make her dinners as well.

What??? No. Just no. She wants to be single, has fired you as H. Fine. If your job fired you would you pick up shifts afterward? Offer to mow their lawn? Of course not. This is pursuit and you putting yourself into the friend zone.
Originally Posted by firemann

She didn't have a response initially, but later texted gas and groceries were starting to get expensive for her. I am going to start pitching in to help with those expenses.

So, she has separated out her finances and is not paying rent (staying w/ friend, right) and she needs money from you? You said that you've met with an attorney already - you may want to look into formal separation. It feels like she's getting a lot out of you and giving you mixed signals throughout. I'd at least put something on paper with her to say "hey, I make $45k, you make $25k, the spousal support calculator says that I will need to give you $X, so let's go ahead and do that, and I'd like 50/50 custody, here's what that looks like..." etc. I may be reading too much into your posts but it feels like she's asking you to jump and you are saying "how high?". Think about what's best for your kids, best for you.
Originally Posted by firemann

She reiterated she knew I was dating, and that didn't real line up with my desire to reconcile with her.

You: "I'm moving on with my life. I understand that parts of this can be difficult"
Keep it simple, you owe her nothing. She knows that you want to R and she knows what you'd like to see from her (MC). Same as you need to demonstrate actions, not words, so does she. If she's serious about R rather than leading you on she can schedule a session.
Originally Posted by firemann

She is starting to express concern for finding a place to live. I believe I screwed up and told her "just come home. Let's get expert help, but please just come home." Told her to think about it a few days.

Yes, definitely offered yourself as a Plan B there. No worries, this is difficult, and it's a long game. Regardless, as above, validate but this is her issue. "I get it, finding good housing at a reasonable price is tough."
Originally Posted by firemann

That's when I break down and propose we get some counseling.

Stop. She knows that you want to get back together and she knows that counseling is part of that. You aren't offering her anything new, you are reminding her that you waiting for her direction

On a more general note, do you want her back as-is? I mean, if she texted you right now, said she wanted to move back in, that she'd made a mistake, would you say "sure thing, come home" or would you expect changes out of her? For my sitch I'll be honest, it's difficult for me to answer this one - I have a daughter and, even though I'm the one who did the most damage to my MR, there are issues my W caused and I know that, deep down, if we are to successfully R we will both have to work on our MR, not just me. All that to say, detaching is not only attractive to her, it will also give you the space you need to figure out what you want in a relationship, with W or someone else.

Space and time, give it to her, give it to yourself


M(35), W(35), D(3)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
Separated Aug 13 (W moved out)
In mediation with intent to dissolve Sept 2019
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865024
09/11/19 07:44 PM
09/11/19 07:44 PM
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Posts: 1,910
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ovrrnbw Offline
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OK so if you aren't divorced it's not an EX yet. Yet you are "dating". I'm not sure how a married guy dates other women. Why not get a divorce first? And your W prolly doesn't know what the heck is going on because you are "dating" and still asking her to reconcile. This is strange.

These discussions magically turn into R talks because you let them. You can shut them down.

Also, I know you are in a very tough spot, but try to be detached and consistent. If you wave to someone, it seems a bit rude to walk away from them if they want to talk. You could have pulled your shoulders back, smiled, and discussed the weather for a minute like you would with any old neighbor. Then after a minute you remember you have to organize your sock drawer and say goodbye. That's detachment.


H 33
W 28
BD 3/12/18

Married 3 years
Together 7 years

Working on the R and on me - Spring 19
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865028
09/11/19 08:24 PM
09/11/19 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 663
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"Picking up extra shifts" at work when commonly wasn't done before definately stands out as a red flag and potential OM to me. May not be the actual case, but is definately a red flag. Watch their actions and not their words. New racy underwear clothing makeup products gym memberships, GGW. Any kind of unusual behavior changes. Again on this may not mean anything and I don't intend to drive you crazy, but keep an eye out for things that don't add up by their actions and behaviors. another thing and they're probably not going to get this cuz they want their way, and most likely want to have it both ways and cake eat. Do not offer up anything for free unless the favor and the expectation is understood and returned. Your time is valuable you are valuable and so is your self-respect. Some people have a hard time understanding this and may see you as being difficult or punitive, but don't let them use you for money Savers can exchanges or as Plan B backup. If things don't add up subtract yourself from the situation.

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: ovrrnbw] #2865039
09/11/19 09:10 PM
09/11/19 09:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
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firemann Offline OP
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Oh boy, ok, I will fill in some additional info:
* We've been working nights that past 5-6 years. If she has to work, I watch the kids and dog and vice versa. This to me isn't a red flag.
* In my state, we have to be living under separate roofs and separated for one year and a day before we can legally divorce. When we did that, we both said the other was free to date. We are legally separated right now and the other thing is that she doesn't have to legally sign a separation agreement.

Dating has added some confusion, but it's hard to delineate when to give up on your marriage and when to move on.

* If she were to come back, would I take her? I don't know. She'd have to do a 180 and commit to a lot of counseling and dating me. I have more trust in the girl I've dated for a month then my separated wife of 16 years. How crazy does that sound?

Last edited by firemann; 09/11/19 09:18 PM.
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865040
09/11/19 09:12 PM
09/11/19 09:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
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firemann Offline OP
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I appreciate your guys help too. I havent reached out or anything in the last day and a half. LRT begins again. Going to run the dog and cook some dinner.

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: IHCLACS] #2865046
09/11/19 09:36 PM
09/11/19 09:36 PM
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Quote
Dating has added some confusion, but it's hard to delineate when to give up on your marriage and when to move on.
I believe all is fair in love and war. I have attracted women by showing attention to a different woman.


On the other hand, Are your core values in line with your beliefs and your behaviors?



There is a balance in everything. How do you learn and practice new relationship skills? Kinda hard to practice riding a bike without getting on one.


Also, do you really want to pursue someone who does not want to be with you? Set her free. Set yourself free.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865372
09/15/19 03:35 PM
09/15/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
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firemann Offline OP
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Journaling - been doing great with LRT and GAL. Went out with some of the people from my fire station after event yesterday and invited someone I've been seeing to join us. We ended up having some drinks at my place and she spent the night here.

This morning, the WW stopped by (she lives across the street, mind you) and dropped off the dog's bed she had at her place after my new lady left. She saw the lady's vehicle in my driveway this morning and was absolutely furious that, in her words, I "had someone spend the night in OUR house." She actually had her teeth gritted shut when she said that. I didn't reply.

I felt kind of bad that she was upset, but then I thought, here is a lady had an emotional affair for 6 months, separated with you, has said she wanted to divorce twice, has also said several times that she couldn't come home...and now she's angry you've moved on. WTF? As much as I would like to work on the marriage, she's not once agreed to doing that with me.

Last edited by firemann; 09/15/19 03:36 PM.
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865375
09/15/19 04:56 PM
09/15/19 04:56 PM
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Hi Firemann,

Based on everything I’ve read—EAs, likely PAs, agreement to begin dating when the intent to divorce is expressed, no desire by her to date you—you haven’t broken any covenants to her. I get divorces take time.

Regarding this lady—was it the one who initially got too clingy or the one with a birthday?

I think most of the ethical Qs involve the new lady if things keep progressing. What would you do if your ex suddenly wanted to R? R with the mother of your kids can be awfully convenient and affordable. Hopefully, by the time your girlfriend’s at ILU (if that happens), you’ll have used your dating time to explore and learn enough about her values to be able to say if if you love her and it’d still be over despite the convenience of R. But, that’s months away! Congrats.

Do consider continuing to work on any codependency issues. A new relationship won’t hide issues like “Dependent Personality Disorder” forever. Keep working on you and the GALs that made you the man that attracted her.

Last edited by CWarrior; 09/15/19 05:04 PM.

GAMEPLAN:
1. Retransform into someone fit to lead epic adventures
2. Build trust and closeness with some lucky lady
a. Allow my partner time to become her
b. Be ready to date in a few months
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2865511
09/16/19 08:11 PM
09/16/19 08:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
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firemann Offline OP
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Talked to the WW this morning to coordinate kid driving duties. She reiterated she was furious and "beyond done". I told her this was part of moving on and understandably uncomfortable. She then stated she was previously ready to talk about our marriage (and that was a first) but has had a complete change of heart as of Sunday morning. She also stated the kids were upset that her vehicle was in the driveway overnight (hard to believe that one). WW stated "stay at her place, stay at a hotel, just dont subject our kids to this."

So, I'm going to try to talk to my kids about it and see if they are truly uncomfortable.

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: CWarrior] #2865512
09/16/19 08:12 PM
09/16/19 08:12 PM
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Posts: 29
North Carolina
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firemann Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CWarrior

Regarding this lady—was it the one who initially got too clingy or the one with a birthday?
.


Neither. This is a new one.

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