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Originally Posted by sandi2
Is your secretary (the OW) still working with you?


She is in the same building but no longer my secretary. After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that. I was open, fully transparent during the following months, I called and text her all day, I stayed in contact over lunch periods, I turned on my location on Snapchat so she could see where I was, I called when I left work. I guess I just tried to be as open, transparent, accountable as I could be. She didn't ask me to do as much as I did, but I did to because I felt like I owed her all of that, that she had to want it, that it had to make her feel better.

Originally Posted by sandi2
Is your W employed? In spite of her parent's warning, you chose to place your W on a pedestal while taking on 75% of the chores. I might understand the outside work, farm animals, etc., but I'm curious as to why you were persistent in leaving her with little to do. Is your love language acts of service?


I bought the book the five love languages, but she left me before I got it, then have switched to the divorce busting books. I just took a quiz and yes, acts of service comes up as my love language. Which after the affair we spent more time together/with each other in 6 months then we had in 10 years. She helped me with projects outside, would help running errands or what not, would go with me to do little things. So maybe that is part of why I started getting such a deeper love for her, she was doing things I had always wanted, helping out tons more, and I just felt happy and content. I truthfully don't remember ever feeling that way, I'm sure I did years ago, but it had definitely been a long, long time. I had the wife I wanted, she was more out going and personable with my friends, more involved with my parents, seemed happier in life, and now I lost her and someone else is getting that. Kills me everyday.... I mean last weekend she didn't have the kids and spent the entire weekend riding in a tractor with the OM(He's a farmer), she would have never spent an entire weekend doing something like that with me, ever.

Originally Posted by sandi2
I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids.........since you always took care of everything. As time progresses, you will probably see a lot more anger that you don't understand. Just look in the mirror and remember you created this princess. I think she'll want you over there to help every evening that she is "stuck" with caring for the kids and being responsible for all that work she's never had to do. I mean, she may not know what bills to pay or when, etc. IMHO, it is a disservice to his W when a H leaves nothing for her to do. Hopefully, she has the type of personality where she'll dive in and be determined to learn how to handle running the house..........but, we'll see. Once you reconcile, be smart and don't pick up 75% of the work again. smile


That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet. My girls say she doesn't do anything with them just on her phone the whole night, then put them to bed and here her talking on the phone. Yes, I did create a monster, thought that was just being a good husband/provider, didn't see it for what it was, didn't see it was leading to me having resentment. I mean after we separated she had to call and ask when the house payment was due, and how much it was, had to give her logins for online banking, everything. I mean she's capable, but in 10 years of marriage hasn't touched it.




Originally Posted by sandi2
You thought you were seeing your W take on a new happiness, but in reality, she was competing with the secretary....or an OW#2 in the future, if she (your W) wasn't enough for you. She wanted to present herself and your MR as so wonderful that you would never consider another woman/affair. But her pain and low self esteem was there.......she just wouldn't show it to you, except in those times she desperately needed reassurance. This is just MHO, of course. Perhaps the reason these times of reassurances became less, was b/c her pain was shifting to anger.


Yes now I see the pain and low self esteem was there. I didn't see it before, I mean after the affair I would tell her how pretty she was all the time. it made her happy, but she would also question if I was being sincere. I was, I always have been attracted to my wife, but after the affair and me thinking I now had this great marriage and me and her seemed to have a great marriage, it just made me fall more in love with her and really I am probably somewhat infatuated with her right now and have been since the affair ended. I seriously think she is just the most attractive woman, I know part of that is the emotional bond I thought was formed after the affair, but I am just totally consumed with her. And I felt it was the same way with her until Bam, one day she wasn't.

She never showed much anger, of course she did in the beginning after finding out bout my affair, but it last a week. Then it seemed like we moved onto talking, and trying to heal. Once she started talking to the OM more in June she started making more and more snide comments, but not tons. Once she decided we were separating, and every since then lots of anger has came out. especially right when I moved out. I don't know if she is just finally releasing it, or if the OM is just telling her how horrible I am, how great she is, and how he can't understand how anyone could ever do this to her, and it is just fanning the flame. My priest and therapist says it is good that she is getting the anger out, I wished she would have long ago, I still feel like she is justified to lash out in anger because of what I did, I just wish she would have shared more of her anger and pain with me before the OM entered and I could have seen we needed help and a different approach to getting our marriage back on track.

She said multiple time in the last month that she didn't think the pain would ever stop and she wasn't going to live like that. I asked her one time if there was a button she could push and the pain was gone, not the memory, just the pain would she stay in the marriage and she said yes, without a doubt. I tried to tell her it would, what she felt was normal according to everything I read, and that it would go away and we could get help go to MC, whatever we needed to do, but by that time the OM was the easy choice, she told me it would be a pain free relationship and that was attractive.

Originally Posted by sandi2
I may change my mind once we have more information, but at the moment, I feel your W is having a revenge affair. I think she was so affected by your betrayal that she wanted you to experience the pain she has suffered. When ole smooth talker (OM) appeared, he fit the job description.........that's all.


At first I did too, it seemed to match that definition. But she seems to hit every single point of someone in limerance. and about 3 weeks before her telling me to leave we went to lunch one day. She had been acting off that week, I asked her if she was contacting the OM, she said no but she wanted to, then asked me how long before I stopped having feelings for the OW. I asked her if she had feelings for him and she said yes, that i was the only other person she had ever felt this way about. I tried to say it was a crush, that she had to stop talking to him for that to go away, and that she didn't even know him except through some text messages. Then right after I moved out and was at the house 3 days later a message came across her phone she surprisingly left laying on the counter, that said, "Im going to love you forever and make you so happy'. Made me sick, seriously seen him twice in person and he's telling her that he going to love her forever. They don't even know each other! But she totally believes that, even voiced her concern that her parents would never accept him because of how they got together and how well they have always liked me. It was almost like her asking me to smooth things over with her dad. This was like a week after i moved out.

At this point she has immersed herself into his circle of friends, they are not parading around in public, but might as well be, her car is parked in front of his house and it's on a busy road, everyone know. She doesn't seem to care that she is still married.


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
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Enough rambling about past time JC. Now get into your man pants, stand up and start walking towards amoafwl. The only way you may have W back is letting her go. Not being there to get some crumbs. She´s the WW now so she must face how life is going to be from now on. I was there some time ago and it made me wake up from my soul mate dream bubble.

No expectations. DB! GAL!
You can´t sit waiting for her.

Stay strong there JC. It´s gonna take time and patience.
There´s a long journey ahead.


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
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You are completely right, detaching will be difficult, I'm supposed to start moving into a house this weekend, been living in my aunts basement. So hopefully that will give my girls a little more structure and we can develop a better routine in a place of our own.

Heard through a mutual friend yesterday that to prepare for getting served papers, that she went to a lawyer yesterday to get the process started. I figured it was coming because lately that is all she has referenced, when we are divorced this or that.

After telling her that we are not going to befriends and that we can talk about children she has pretty much stopped contact. Hopefully not getting communication from her will help with the detachment.

I still can't see how this things is going to last. I know I cant have expectations, just got to accept that patience and time, whether divorced, are just things I have to deal with if I truly want to put our marriage back together. Like everything said, nothing I did or had been doing has improved or changed anything, so why not change everything. Detach, GAL, keep going to therapy.

I lost 40 pounds in 2 weeks after she told me she wanted separation. So I am back to a super healthy weight and joined a gym last week and started working out again. See where the journey leads. Letting go and trying to not worry about her, my kids future because of this, where things will be in a year, in two, those are the difficult things for me. I guess I should expect that though, I mean I have been out 45 days, her Affair is still a bright new shiny car that seems perfect at this point.

Thanks for listening everyone. Sandi I hope you can give some more insight into my WAW.


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
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Would you fill in some time lines for us at the bottom of the page? List the ages of you & W; when your A started and ended; when W found out; when W asked you to leave; when she started her A, etc.

I want to make sure I understand your sitch, so please bear with me as I go back over some things you've posted.

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So we started to text more and she tried to flirt with me a few times, but I actually shut that down, told her it made me uncomfortable because I was married. I should have said I wasn’t going to talk to her anymore at that point, but I had never dated anyone but my wife and getting attention from a woman 9 years younger than me made me feel pretty good, I guess.


What happened that caused you to change your mind about OW's flirtatious texting? I mean, things progressed to a PA, so you must have changed your mind about it.

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Now looking back I completely believe I fell into limerence.


Do you see limerence something beyond your own volition?

Now this next quote is where I start to get confused:

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Then after about a year I started coming out of the fog, I started seeing how much my wife loved me, how manipulating, selfish, and controlling this other woman was, and me and my wife started spending more time together, even going out with friends and having date nights. Mind you my wife knows I am not happy in the marriage but has no idea I am having an affair.


Which came first..........you coming out of the fog; seeing how much your W loved you; or seeing OW's faults?
Did you start spending more time with your W after you were able to see how much she loved you? However, you continued the A, until you got caught when OW was blowing your phone?

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I didn’t want to be this person anymore. But she always found a way back in and I truthfully believe it had to do with me being in limerence and telling myself that I would never would have had an affair unless this woman was my “soulmate”.


First of all, forget all that stuff about finding your "soulmate". It has been used for many M breakups. People have this idea that a soulmate aligns perfectly with themselves and there is never any issues to work on b/c they are so perfectly matched. Secondly, limerence is not an excuse for engaging in an affair. The more you tell yourself that you "fell" into a state of limerence and that you could have never, consciously, do such a thing to your W.........unless this OW was truly your preordained soulmate, the more you deceive yourself. You are trying to find justification for your conduct, and there is none. Limerece or finding one's soulmate doesn't remove your volition. It is extremely important to take full ownership of your actions. Don't place blame on the OW, limerence, soulmate, depression, etc.

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So, I text the other woman in front of my wife told her done, over, I love my wife, ect. I then blocked her, and deleted every form of communication. Then came months of talking, I admit I had a hard time letting go, and I was depressed. I had never broken up with someone, and at that point I thought I loved her, but I also knew I loved my wife and kids.


Good, you did the right thing. I totally get having a hard time afterwards. Who were you talking to for months.......your W or the OW? Affairs have a very addictive nature. I'm really surprised that you got over it in only 3-4 months............considering OW works in the same building. Do you see her at a distance?

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After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that.


This makes no sense to me. Are you saying that after you learned about your W's affair, then you asked her if you should switch jobs? It was after you learned about her affair that you started a transparency plan?

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I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids


That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet.


Let me say it this way. I think her anger was less to do about you not staying to talk......and more to do about her having to take care of four kids on her own, without your help.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted by sandi2
Would you fill in some time lines for us at the bottom of the page? List the ages of you & W; when your A started and ended; when W found out; when W asked you to leave; when she started her A, etc.


We are both 34. Together 16 years, married 11.

My Physical Affair started in October of 2017. I don't really know when I would say the emotional affair started but I would guess about June of 2017, before that summer it was just talking to her in the bank about business stuff, some personal stuff, like kids, vacations, wife, family, nothing negative.

Affair ended in October 2018, it was already dying but not dead until my wife found out. Yes I was still emotional connected though, I don't know why though because I wanted my marriage and wife, but still had strong attractions to the OW.

Her affair started in May 2019. The EA started shortly after she first met him in May and a few days later he started snap chatting. They had never talked before and he opened up with, "hey heard about his affair, are you guys doing okay. I couldn't believe he would do that to you, I know how much pain that causes".

She told me on July 26th that when we got home from vacation that we needed to separate, that she needed some space. Said it was just separation, not evening thinking about divorce and had nothing to do with OM. Stayed at my parents July 31st, She went to OM's house on August 1st. Actually when I was there on August 1st getting kids that evening the OM started to pull in driveway until he seen me, clearly he knew I was out.

Originally Posted by sandi2
I want to make sure I understand your sitch, so please bear with me as I go back over some things you've posted.


Quote
So we started to text more and she tried to flirt with me a few times, but I actually shut that down, told her it made me uncomfortable because I was married. I should have said I wasn’t going to talk to her anymore at that point, but I had never dated anyone but my wife and getting attention from a woman 9 years younger than me made me feel pretty good, I guess.


Originally Posted by sandi2
What happened that caused you to change your mind about OW's flirtatious texting? I mean, things progressed to a PA, so you must have changed your mind about it.


We text back and forth quite a bit, but nothing really sexy or overly flirty, she backed way off on flirty text after I said something the one time. Talked about how much she enjoyed having a friend she could talk about things with, and appreciated my feedback. Then one night my wife and I got into a big argument because she threw a fit about me going to a football game with a friend, even though she had went out and had drinks with a girlfriend the previous Friday night. I didn't go then stewed and left the house because I was mad and tired of arguing over it. sent a snapchat to the OW about how bad my wife was pissing me off and had to get out of the house, drink a few beers and calm down. She asked if I wanted to talk about it, said yes I did, she said she would come cruise around and listen to me. She did, I complained, she validated everything I said, then we drove around talked and had fun. When I got home, my wife apologized, and wanted to talk, and I was thinking about how unhappy she made me and how I hadn't had so much fun since I could remember. From there I started thinking differently about the OW. She instantly started telling me how she had never had so much fun, and how she could be herself around me, how she never felt so attracted to anyone, ect. Then a few days later she told me I know nothing will ever happen between us, I had made that clear, but since that night we rode around she couldn't stop thinking about kissing me. I had told her the only person I had ever kissed was my wife, then she went on and on about how that have ever happened, wasn't I curious, and so on. She then asked if she could kiss me, just once. I told her no that couldn't happen, she played the I'm sorry I never should have said that, you probably think I'm horrible, I should stop talking to you, I'm going to stop talking to you. I told her it was okay, I didn't think bad of her, that I was curious about it to, but I just couldn't. She then started justifying that it was just a kiss, no big deal, and I stupidly after a week of that said I wanted to kiss her. After that happened then she told me how she had never felt that way after a kiss, that she shouldn't have kissed me, because now she wanted more, and she knew that would never happen, pretty much the same story over and over. I got that first taste of that high, was distancing myself from my wife, and then it turned into a full blown physical affair. I was just weak and dumb, absolutely no justification in my actions.



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Now looking back I completely believe I fell into limerence.


Originally Posted by sandi2
Do you see limerence something beyond your own volition?


Absolutely not, I was not in limerence when everything started. I didn't guard my heart or listen to my conscience when things changed to being inappropriate. The flirting and stuff was fun, made me feel good about myself. I mean here I was a 32 year old dad of four kids, slightly overweight, fairly low self confidence about my own looks because I never had much attention from girls and married my first girlfriend(which I was happy to do so at the time), and here is a 23 year old girl paying me a bunch of attention. It made me feel pretty good about myself, so I let it continue, then I let it get out of hand, and that is no ones fault but mine, I'm not throwing the blame on some psychological term, the blame falls squarely on my shoulders. I didn't think it would get that far when it was in the beginning, I never imagined that one it would transpire the way it did and two that she had any real interest, I just thought she liked the attention and compliments. I mean she was going out to bars and what not, I didn't have jealously about that, she would be out and stuff and wouldn't text me, it didn't bother me, I wasn't invested like that, it was just nice having the attention, I figured she would soon enough find something more entertaining and she would stop texting me. I knew right from wrong, I knew how guilty I felt, it was just pure selfishness on my part.

Once the full blown PA started and we already had that emotional connection, then I do feel like I fell into limerence, and I could checkmark every box of the signs you are in limerence. But I got there on my own, there was plenty of things I did wrong before getting there, and I knew them before I got deep enough to get to that state.

Originally Posted by sandi2
Now this next quote is where I start to get confused:


Quote
Then after about a year I started coming out of the fog, I started seeing how much my wife loved me, how manipulating, selfish, and controlling this other woman was, and me and my wife started spending more time together, even going out with friends and having date nights. Mind you my wife knows I am not happy in the marriage but has no idea I am having an affair.


Originally Posted by sandi2
Which came first..........you coming out of the fog; seeing how much your W loved you; or seeing OW's faults?
Did you start spending more time with your W after you were able to see how much she loved you? However, you continued the A, until you got caught when OW was blowing your phone?


I was starting to see the OW faults, we had had several "breakups", she would draw a line in the sand per se, like if you don't call a lawyer and file for divorce next week then I'm done. I wouldn't she'd blow up, that we were done, I felt like I had escaped, then a day later or even the same day, shed call or text. She would say Im pushing you too hard and you need to work through this at your own pace and I am just being selfish. This happened multiple times, as besides continuing the affair I took no steps towards leaving my wife. I never called a lawyer, I never looked for a house, I would tell my wife that I thought we should separate, but then never carried forward with it. At one point in September or so, right before my wife found out, the OW text me one day and said she loved me, but she was letting me go. She said it was obvious I wasn't leaving my wife, and she felt like there was more distance between us, sex had slowed down, I was making excuses not to see her. She felt like I had said enough times I wanted out and that she had to convince me to stay, that clearly I wanted out, because I had changed very little of my life. I think I sent ok, or I didn't even respond. Regardless later that day or maybe the next she sent that she wanted to still be friends. She talked about her little boy some, I talked about something my girls had done, but the tone definitely changed between us. Because I did have feeling for her I thought this was good, like I wasn't shutting her out, I was keeping her somewhat content, she had threatened telling my wife one time we broke up, So I thought this was good. She knew we were done but she didn't want to burn me at the stake and expose everything. No surprise to you guys, that doesn't happen, she started making comments like, I know we are not going to end up together but can we have sex one more time. I had already started spending more time with my wife again, we were starting to have fun, I was starting to remember all the things I loved about her. So things were improving with her and I was starting to see the faults with the OW and the reality of that path if I would have left my wife. But yes at that point, even though I was seeing faults and coming out of the Fog I was still pretty attached to her.

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I didn’t want to be this person anymore. But she always found a way back in and I truthfully believe it had to do with me being in limerence and telling myself that I would never would have had an affair unless this woman was my “soulmate”.


Originally Posted by sandi2
First of all, forget all that stuff about finding your "soulmate". It has been used for many M breakups. People have this idea that a soulmate aligns perfectly with themselves and there is never any issues to work on b/c they are so perfectly matched. Secondly, limerence is not an excuse for engaging in an affair. The more you tell yourself that you "fell" into a state of limerence and that you could have never, consciously, do such a thing to your W.........unless this OW was truly your preordained soulmate, the more you deceive yourself. You are trying to find justification for your conduct, and there is none. Limerece or finding one's soulmate doesn't remove your volition. It is extremely important to take full ownership of your actions. Don't place blame on the OW, limerence, soulmate, depression, etc.


I did at one time, that was only when I was in the affair and trying to justify my actions to myself. I do not believe in soulmates, I never have, except during my affair as a self justification for my actions, I know its not a justification, just another crappy excuse to make myself feel better. It used to even hurt my wife's feelings when she said something about us being soulmates and I would tell her I didn't believe that, that there nothing perfect out there and we had to work on our relationship all the time, and I didn't think there was a relationship out there that wasn't lots of work. She told me that she thought this OM could be her soulmates but I wouldn't understand that because I didn't believe in them. I agree that there is zero excuses, I guess im not trying to use it as an excuse or justification, but more of somehow explain to myself how I could ever do this, I just never thought I would do this, I never wanted to believe I could be that person, I had always judged anyone I had heard about so harshly for doing it. But yes it was just my own stupidly, selfishness and weakness and I broke my own morals and did this terrible thing to my wife and children. There is no excuse, zero, I agree with that. I knew it was wrong, I tried getting out and was too weak at the time to follow through.

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So, I text the other woman in front of my wife told her done, over, I love my wife, ect. I then blocked her, and deleted every form of communication. Then came months of talking, I admit I had a hard time letting go, and I was depressed. I had never broken up with someone, and at that point I thought I loved her, but I also knew I loved my wife and kids.


Originally Posted by sandi2
Good, you did the right thing. I totally get having a hard time afterwards. Who were you talking to for months.......your W or the OW? Affairs have a very addictive nature. I'm really surprised that you got over it in only 3-4 months............considering OW works in the same building. Do you see her at a distance?


Talking to my wife for months, I took the blame for everything when it came out. She would say things like if I was a better wife you wouldn't have cheated, I failed you, I had to be so bad to you or you never would have done this; every time she would do this I would tell her that I took full blame, that it had nothing to do with her, that it was my fault. She asked lots of question, about everything, I told her everything she asked. I didn't want it to look like I was hiding something or not fully disclosing everything.

I wouldn't say I was over her, but I was sure that I wanted my marriage and my wife. The OW also got pretty hateful at times at work and that made it easier. I think my wife picked up on that it still bothered me and I was depressed over her, I kept reassuring her that I wanted her, my family, and our marriage. I thought I was hiding that I was having issues but my wife knew something was up. The good thing was me and my wife were spending tons of fun times together. We where out enjoying life, we were planning a trip for March, the OW started dating a guy, it bothered me, she rubbed it in my face a couple of times, telling me how much better a man he was than me, it bothered me, and I didn't know why? Because I really was happy, my wife told me she could see me coming back into the person I was, doing projects around the house and farm, getting more happiness back, enjoying the kids more, ect. Which was the way I felt, but yes there was still something there for the OW and I didn't want it to be. Yes I still had daily interactions with her, and for a long time the OW went between telling me I was a POS to telling me she still wanted me and would wait forever to have me, no I'm not making that up....

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After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that.



Originally Posted by sandi2
This makes no sense to me. Are you saying that after you learned about your W's affair, then you asked her if you should switch jobs? It was after you learned about her affair that you started a transparency plan?


No, I wasn't being clear there. I started the transparency plan right after my affair came out. I did everything she asked, she knew I use to go to the OW house over lunch so I talked everyday during lunch, turned on tracker so she could see where I was at, no passwords on phone, everything. I asked about my job when my affair came out. My wife said no, that she believed in my sorrow, and that we could get through it. I'm a banker and like I said we are in a rural area, I have a non-compete, so it would be though for me to leave and find employment in the same field or I would have to drive an hour to work. I did asked to be transferred to another location but there was nothing available

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I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids


That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet.


Let me say it this way. I think her anger was less to do about you not staying to talk......and more to do about her having to take care of four kids on her own, without your help.


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
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Posts: 52
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I will also say that during the year of my affair I ran her down constantly. I was a horrible person to her. In the times after the affair I wasn't, she said she understood that I ran her down to make myself feel better or whatever. That hurt her deeply, very, very deeply.

She had never opened up to her parents about anything, well this weekend she did. Her mom called me today and said that she talked about what happened during the affair, and how the OM makes her feel, and that she says I never loved her, that you can't be that horrible to someone and love them, you just can't.

She is definitely only thinking and seeing the absolute worst part of our relationship, the year during the affair is defining our entire marriage. Does DBing help with letting her heal and start remembering the good things too? Is time really my best friend to letting the pain subside and letting her remember some of the good things also?


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
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Originally Posted by "JC08"
Her mom called me today and said that she talked about what happened during the affair, and how the OM makes her feel, and that she says I never loved her, that you can't be that horrible to someone and love them, you just can't.

Hi JC08,

So, her mom reached out to you. How did you respond--with shame, with guilt, with validation, with defensiveness? I agree you didn't love her during the affair, but it sounds like you did before and after? It probably [censored] for you that so many years together are re-defined by a few bad choices.

Originally Posted by "JC08"
Is time really my best friend to letting the pain subside and letting her remember some of the good things also?

I left my ex-wife 10 years ago. I have questioned if I tried enough before giving up, but I've never changed my perspective on the badness vs. goodness of the marriage, nor reminisced about the good moments. As I told Kas, though, if she'd changed radically and permanently while I was single I might've re-visited because sharing the same kids would lead to a great deal of convenience if other factors were there.

You described OM as a "serial womanizer". My Q to you was, who ends the relationships and how quickly does he typically move on? Past behavior is a good predictor of future opportunities.

Last edited by CWarrior; 09/16/19 08:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by CWarrior
So, her mom reached out to you. How did you respond--with shame, with guilt, with validation, with defensiveness? I agree you didn't love her during the affair, but it sounds like you did before and after? It probably [censored] for you that so many years together are re-defined by a few bad choices.


I have kept good communication with her parents, he gave always had a great relationship, even through all of this I was actually the one that told them about my infidelity. One to try and take blame for my actions and show regret. Two, because I felt like my wife needed someone to talk to besides me, she was still embarrassed about it and wouldn't talk to her mom, instead the OM contacted her about it and it's been downhill since. Of course through this whole time I have been shameful and took blame for my actions and the situation I created.

Yes I always loved her, before the affair happened I questioned her love and mine, but that was unhappiness that manifested into regret towards her. After the affair I fell deeply back into love with my wife, I seen what we had, what I had in her, that she was worth the fight and we both had a lot to do with our marriage eroding, I blamed her for my unhappiness before the affair. So yes, hindsight is terrible, I should have found help, I should have seeked MC before the affair, I should have done so many things differently, I created this situation, and it absolutely [censored], at this point I'm going to try and follow advice here and am going to put in the time and effort, and in due time see if things change with her and the OM.

Side note, this weekend age said that she could see marriage with him, and he seen the same, and I better get use to him being around because he's there to stay. Still crazy that she met him 100 days ago, and 60 days ago said she was overwhelmed, but loved me and would never leave.



Originally Posted by CWarrior
You described OM as a "serial womanizer". My Q to you was, who ends the relationships and how quickly does he typically move on? Past behavior is a good predictor of future opportunities.


I have heard he usually does, but that last one she caught him talking to 3 other women and she left. 6-9 months is pretty typical is my understanding. The night we all went out together and everything started he was bragging about all the women who text him out of the blue or who come over for a booty call because that is the reputation he has. Hope he hasn't changed, it will give me time to improve and hopefully some perspectives about me and us to change.


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 52
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Yesterday, out of the blue she started trying to convince me to go back to the OW. Said clearly I loved her, that she wants me happy, and now she understands that you can't help falling in love with someone. Said the OW is a pretty girl, that the OW has done well for herself, and she wouldn't make things difficult and to reconcile and date the OW. Just told me to make sure she is good to our girls.

Why? This is crazy, goes from hating her (understandably) to now wants me to date and make things work.

Is this just guilt and shame?

Of course I told her that I never loved the OW, it wasn't reality, but I understand why see would think I did. And that I have no desire to every date the OW.


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 52
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Posts: 52
I had several good days, had my girls all weekend, moved into a new house all that type of stuff. When I dropped my girls off, I was nice and tried to get out of there quickly. She asked me how I was doing, I said actually really good, she then asked if I was seeing the OW and if it was making me happy. Told her I wasn't, because I'm not, haven't even talked to her. I don't know where some of this stuff comes from.

Tonight [censored], no kids, nothing to keep my mind from thinking all the horrible thoughts that drive me insane. I know it was the OMs birthday today, I know she was gone all weekend because when I dropped the kids off she was unloading a suitcase. So I know they went somewhere. 3 days without hearing a word from her, 3 days of not reaching out one time about the kids, nothing.

Didn't bother me all weekend, didn't bother me last night, but tonight it just [censored] and I can't find motivation to do anything.

Guess I'm just venting. Not even close to giving up, not even a thought, but would like the overwhelming feelings and thoughts to calm down a little. I guess time will be the cure for that too.


Me 34 Her 34
T:16 years
M:11
4 Daughters: 10,7,6,3
Her EA May 2019
Separated July 30th 2019
Her PA Started August 1st, 2019
Filed October 3rd, 2019
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