Weathering the Storm

[Coconut]

The lady I sent that message to did reach out, we conversed back and forth a couple of times, but then she ghosted so not going anywhere.

Figure I'll go a little more into detail about the FWB situation that I have going on. We meet on OLD, we started chatting and the conversation really went well, I think we ended up chatting that night for 3 or 4 hours straight and she said that she generally waits awhile before meeting someone in person but she was intrigued and wanted to meet, so we met up 2 days later and it's been going great since.

She's only 3 months post separation and in the process of the divorce proceedings, you have to be separated for a year here before you can D, but during that year they are working out all the financials, etc. She knows she isn't ready to commit to someone, she has been very clear and upfront about that. From what she's told me, she was married for 23 years, they met in college and have two kids 19 and 21. He was military, got PTSD and retired under disability about 5 years ago, he became emotionally abusive and she tried for a few years and then gave up on the marriage about 2 years ago and walked out 3 months ago because she began to fear for her safety.

We rarely talk on the phone, there is the occasional texting back and forth and we get together about once every week or two. Generally, we will go out on a Friday or Saturday and then she will stay over and we will do some adventure in the morning before she heads home.

For me it's working pretty well, I've been careful to not fall for her and remain detached, we get along very well when we are together and there are no expectations. I've taken her to a rodeo, antique shopping, hiking, to the middle of a state forest to watch the stars from the bed of my truck, etc.. All things that I would generally do alone, but she's enjoyed everything I've thrown at her and I've never felt pressure to make sure she enjoys herself.

Anyway, the company is good, the sex is great and I'm continuing to talk to other ladies. I'd be ok if she broke it off today, I would miss the companionship but I'm still doing my thing (btw - went hunting for the first time ever yesterday, went for Dove, I didn't get any but it was a fun day with the guys).. One thing I have noticed is that having her in my life has put a lot less pressure on trying to find someone, meaning I am literally fine with however dates go and don't get nervous before heading out to meet for the first time and I just feel more at ease with everything. Overall, while I know that there is NO long term possibility here, it has really been a good thing for me right now.

[Coconut]

I am struggling with something that is bothering me, and I'm not sure if i'm in the wrong for thinking the way I am or if what I'm feeling is fair and understandable. Not sure of any place other than here where I could talk about it and possibly get some feedback. A warning, this might be TMI, but I'm trying to give information that explains why I feel the way I do.

Long story short, my FWB and I have been getting along splendidly, I would say that we are more dating than are FWB as we go out and do something every time we see each other, and she sleeps over pretty much every night we go out. We generally will spend a night together 3 out of every 4 weeks, but there is very little communication outside of the time we spend together (like maybe one text session every 2 weeks for about 30 minutes).

I took her on a trip with me this last weekend, I wanted to go up to the mountains and see the fall colors, so I invited her to come along, the entire trip was on me (only additional costs of her going was her meals).

We went out Thursday night and then she stayed over Thursday and we left Friday morning. Long story short, after a little foreplay in bed Thursday I asked her if she was on her cycle, she told me she was, and I said that's really unfortunate but I did not want to be intimate while that was going on. We went to bed shortly after.

Friday night I had a hard time sleeping at the hotel, i'm not sure why I couldn't sleep but while i was laying there, the fact that I was sexually frustrated was on my mind. In the morning she asked why I couldn't sleep and I told her I wasn't sure, but I was honest with her and told her I think that because the weekend wasn't working out quite like I had hoped I think being sexually frustrated had a lot to do with it. I think I should mention we hadn't seen each other for two weeks prior to this trip due to me going on other trips the previous weekends.

Saturday night we kissed a little when we went to bed, but I did not want to get myself worked up (by this time I kinda realized there were not going to be any benefits on this trip) so it was an early night. Sunday morning I asked her why there were no benefits on this trip (it was bothering me and I wanted to be honest), she initially said she was going to Saturday night but then I said I was going to go to sleep, then she said that she still has a hard time initiating (which I always do, but I wasn't going to ask for something when I was the one not willing to have intercourse).

I am not sure if I feel like there should have been benefits because of nice guy tendencies, such as I was nice to take you on this trip and you owe me, or if my feelings are valid and she was being a little selfish. It might be worth mentioning that I am very generous in bed, when we are together there have only been two sessions where I didn't make sure she finished and those where in the morning after I had made sure she did the night before, and I have given certain benefits many more times than I have received said benefits.

I'm now questioning if I want to keep seeing her. Am I being a jerk for feeling this way?

[Dawn70]

Well, clearly, I don't know all the subtle nuances since I was not a part of the encounter, so I can only comment based on what you have shared and my own assumptions surrounding that, but I will say this. If I was fooling around with someone and they told me they didn't want to be intimate while I was on my cycle (your phrasing), then I would not initiate anything at any point while I was on it. My reason for that response is that "being intimate" to me means a lot of different things. If I were the woman in question and you had said "I don't want to have sex while you are on it" then I may very well initiate other things. But if you use the blanket term of being intimate, then I'm going to stay pulled back.

I think your feelings are valid, so I'm not going to comment on whether you are being a jerk or not, because that really isn't even my place to say. What I'm wondering, though, based on the information that you gave is, would it have made a difference if y'all weren't on this trip so you were basically forced (for lack of a better word) to stay together or is it maybe that the trip, itself, was a bigger step than you anticipated and now it is seeming like more than you thought? if I'm understanding your explanation correctly, you hadn't seen each other in 2 weeks and then she stayed over Thursday night to leave Friday. You told her then you didn't want to be intimate and then carried on with your trip, effectively making y'all stuck in the same room for 2 nights (Fri and Sat). I have had FWB relationships before and never have I gone on a weekend get-away with one of them, so I'm wondering if that might be affecting your thinking?

Why are you questioning continuing to see her? I'm not sure I'm drawing a logical conclusion between lack of sex and stopping seeing her when you are only spending a night together roughly once a week. Sorry I am rambling but so many questions...…………...LOL

[JujuB]

When a girls goes on a trip with you, she’s taking time off of a work and family schedule to be with you. So no, it doesn’t mean she owes you anything or is being selfish. Plus you guys went dutch. You wanted a trip away and you wanted company and did the inviting. So she was doing you the favor of accompanying you. I think it showed that she was a good sport by paying for meals. Periods are not 100 percent predictable.. A lot of women have painful cramps and fatigue too. She was not being selfish. Plus - there are tons of guys that are ok with period sex (I’m shocked by this too- but trust me a lot are). So she could say your being selfish too.

Now with a FWB situation, I guess it depends on what else is available to you as to whether you want to keep seeing her. Those situations are more about being selfish anyway. They are not about giving and reciprocal relationships. They are about getting your needs met without having to invest - so why would you expect more from her?

[Ginger1]

Coconut, if I’m being totally honest here...... you make it sound like she owes you sex because you paid for her vacation. That sounds a little prostituty.

Did she really have her period? If you didn’t want sex at that time, what was she supposed to do? Do you feel she shouldn’t have come if she wasn’t able to have sex with you? Did you feel like she owed you a BJ if she had her period?

You kind of make it sound like you only want to be with her if she is having sex with you or giving you some form of pleasure every time.

And the pressure of knowing a guy expects it makes a woman very fun shy to initiate. I went through this with my ex husband. I thought I hated sex. But I don’t. I just don’t want it “expected as a duty or in payment of something”. I remember I would be so sore from work and ask my ex husband for a massage. He wouldn’t do it unless it ended in sex. And if he ever offered me one I knew it wasn’t because I had a rough night at work. It was because he wanted to get laid, and that is the biggest turnoff .

I hope this helps. I think having an expectation of a certain amount of sexual activity and in repayment of nice gestures.

I mean, it exist, but it’s a paying job;)

Try not putting on pressure or have expectations and I bet she initiates more.

[DonH]

Wow, interesting topic with a lot here. And finally something I actually have a bit more recent experience with - FWB LOL. But let's start here:

I took her on a trip with me this last weekend, I wanted to go up to the mountains and see the fall colors, so I invited her to come along, the entire trip was on me (only additional costs of her going was her meals).

Interesting how different people can read the same paragraph but have different take aways. I read that and it would appear to me that Coconut paid for everything or pretty much everything - the hotel, the travel expense and perhaps even the meals - simply pointing out that the costs would have been pretty much the same other than meals. JuJu reads it as they went Dutch. Coconut will have to clear it up but I don't think they went dutch JuJu - I think he paid for it all.

But does that make a difference?

Here I go agreeing with Ginger again but I have to tell you, I bend over backwards not to ever make it look like I expect sex for taking someone, even a FWB, some place. For me the cruise was/is the biggest example - if it happens, great, but just like a first date, because I'm taking someone some place, I'm not expecting "benefits" - it sorta sounds like you are and that's kinda a douche thing to do.

But moreso, FWB can be very difficult to navigate - and that's just for the two people in it. Again, not to pick on JuJu, but she clearly looks down at FWB arrangements - somehow being less than. If someone is being used, I would agree but that is often not the case. However, it means both people have to be on the same page. Are you guys both on the same page?

That's where I'd start - is she on the same page as you? And here's the other thing, the page often turns. Some women use FWB thinking the guy is going to change his mind. Some start out clearly in the FWB zone but then catch feelings and resent it. It really takes a, let's say, unique woman to pull this off. I've even had it slip farther than FWB - at least feelings wise. I've also lost interest and just wanted to be friends without the benefits. Sometimes it comes and goes. It can just be tricky. Some women and some men as well use FWB as a safe zone when really they are dating - they just are afraid to admit it either to each other or to themselves. These are just a few variations of FWB and there are more.

Can I ask, is this the woman who liked every single picture in the dozen plus photos you posted? If so, I'm wondering if she's not either hoping for more, thinking it was developing to more or something like that. You clearly took steps to not post of photo of her or of you together yet she liked every photo. That speaks to me - unless it's not her then never mind LOL.

So bottom line, for me anyhow, I think you are over the line here towards being a jerk. Like Ginger said it's getting close to almost a protitutie sounding. Of course some would say that's what dating is too - no matter what you pay, it's just how the transaction happens. I'm not saying this is the case but see how the parallel can be drawn. Benefits should not be expected in return for taking someone someplace. That's just how I see it. And I see it that way with a first or second date, a FWB or someone you've dated for years. Now if this were a pattern, that's another story.

Perhaps this is what you need to answer for yourself - would you have taken this woman if you knew sex was off the table? If not, hmmmmmmm, is it really friends with benefits or just benefits? Many times, people forget about the friends part of the equation. Another reason this can be hard to pull off over the long term.

[Dawn70]

Coconut, if I’m being totally honest here...... you make it sound like she owes you sex because you paid for her vacation. That sounds a little prostituty.

Did she really have her period? If you didn’t want sex at that time, what was she supposed to do? Do you feel she shouldn’t have come if she wasn’t able to have sex with you? Did you feel like she owed you a BJ if she had her period?

You kind of make it sound like you only want to be with her if she is having sex with you or giving you some form of pleasure every time.

YES! SO much this! I wanted to say it seemed like you thought she owed you sex for going and your picking up the tab, but I don't know you and I don't think, even if that was what was on your mind, you would put it out there quite like that. I'm glad someone who actually knows you weighed in on that.

[JujuB]

don - I viewed it as going Dutch cause plane tickets weren’t involved and figure hes paying for the hotel anyway, regardless of whether she goes. She paid for all her own meals.

I do not look down on FWB. Personally, I wouldn’t have a relationship like that for the reasons you listed and more. But if it works for others, I never judge. I just personally would want more and i can’t sleep with someone casually. Other people view it more openly and as long as both people go in with no expectations and are honest there is absolutely no harm.

All I was saying is that in a FWB type of relationship, it’s not really about investing or giving. So why would he expect her to give if she wasn’t getting pleasure. It’s not like there is love or a relationship. Just like she can’t expect him to find someone else if he’s not happy with the arrangement. There’s no real investment which is the advantage of an arrangement like that.

And he argues that he’s paying for the trip but Considering meals weren’t included, I would think that her half of the price of a hotel is probably significantly cheaper then a high quality escort without stds. At least he’s gets kissed. So it was a gamble on his part. And he doesn’t have to gamble on her if there are other women out there for him.

[AndrewP]

Hey C'Nut - long time. I have a bit different perspective on this but I am a few years older and also have had very different life experiences having married relatively young and then stayed married to the same woman for pretty much my entire adult life thus far. A woman who didn't like sex especially with her pain and mobility issues. So while sex is - as I am learning rather late in life - can be a whole lot of fun - it's not been a requirement for me. So my opinions might not match your own wants and needs.

I am not sure if I feel like there should have been benefits because of nice guy tendencies, such as I was nice to take you on this trip and you owe me, or if my feelings are valid and she was being a little selfish.

It's honest of you to think this way. Most guys including myself would have thought that a nice weekend away with someone I'd been intimate with before would be disappointed to not get some action.

I'm now questioning if I want to keep seeing her. Am I being a jerk for feeling this way?

Yep. Accept that.

What is it you are actually looking for from this lady? Sex on demand or someone who you like spending time with both horizontally and vertically who on this particular event wasn't available for the horizontal mambo. Keep in mind as well that based on what you wrote / I read - you were the one who backed away from that. Dumping someone who you have been enjoying spending time with just because on this one single trip is - in my personal opinion - kind of a jerk sort of move. If it becomes a consistent pattern and you are in it more for the benefits than the person, then yes, re-evaluating things makes more sense.

Just my 2 cents.

[doodler]

Dude,

I know exactly what's going on. You've been a little anxious for the past month or three, haven't you? There's been something nagging you inside but you haven't been able to identify why you're feeling "off" on any given day. There's a reason you've been feeling that way; it's because she's not FWB. You're married dude! It's the old ball and chain. Holy f*ck knuckles Batman, now it all makes sense doesn't it?

Why can't you remember getting married? It's because of acute post marital dissociative amnesia disorder (PMDAD). PMDAD happens in one in fifty marriages. You see, you and the miss were out partying, imbibing alcohol, doin' a little reefer and maybe some molly and you were in love with everything including the FWB. You did what seemed logical at the time; you got married.

Now that the PMDAD is in full force, you don't remember the marriage and you're thinking with your joey. You think a little weekend excursion is going to get you some goody. H3ll no dude! You're married. It's gong to require a week long cruise, some jewelry and a new car before you get any more goody. That's the breaks, man. You might as well find her a boyfriend because you're in this for the long haul.