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A Message from Michele
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22 years gone #2863762
09/02/19 07:40 AM
09/02/19 07:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 75
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rooskers Offline OP
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My EX W had an affair on me ten years ago. She led me to believe for the past ten years it was a mistake and I could trust her again. On May 23 she was in bed with me after we got our teenage daughter to bed and said she didn't love me like a wife anymore and no longer wanted to be married. She didn't want to go to counseling and the next day left. On the May 24 she went to school and pulled D out of class and told her "I don't love your dad anymore and want him to take care of you and I will see you sometimes." She then brought her up to my room, I teach there, and left her where she ran up to me and started screaming. My EX W just walked out of the room and never looked back.

This was one week before my birthday and two weeks before a huge vacation we had planned as a present for my D birthday. She was also suppose to help me with an outdoor school trip I was in charge of for school. I was in total shock that my life was just turned upside down for a second time by the same person. She said it wasn't a guy but the couple days later I noticed on our shared calendar that she was going on birth control and was taking one of my D friends to ballet. I told her dad that since I was going by his house that I could take her since I had to take my D anyway and he got real evasive and said no my EX W said she could do it and thank you anyway. My suspicions were raised and confirmed when my D said about a month ago she noticed they were hanging out a lot and she was always super smiley and excited when he came in. She then said at a friends party that she went to my EX W dropped her off then went for a walk with him holding his hand. EX W denies this all and told my D she must have seen someone else doing that. When I confronted her about this on the phone she got very defensive and said she didn't have an affair with him but then invited his daughter within hours of me saying I did not want to go with her and my MIL to Hawaii. When her MIL came up my EX W wanted her to stay with me supposedly to visit with D. She wanted me to care for D and only invited her over once to see her new place which she magically got within a week of leaving. MIL said the OM had been over to her place to help her with things like lights for her car and installing various stuff.

While all that was going on I was continuing to work at school and taking care of my D. She had a ballet performance that both EX and I were suppose to help with but she bought out so she didn't have to help and I had to double up on my volunteer duties but I wanted to be involved to support my D. I was use to helping and volunteering since I was a stay at home dad for most of my daughters life. I was even the one to hold her for the first eight hours of her life since she was born by c-section. During this couple of weeks my EX W never asked to take care of our D or have her come stay. She only saw her twice before the Hawaii trip and that was only for a couple hours. While in Hawaii my EX W made the trip completely about her flirting with tour guides, taking them everywhere with no breaks, spent money like it was going out of style, pretended nothing had happened, and argued with her mom everyday. I got a call from my D one night saying that EX W and MIL got into it big and both stormed out so I was worried I needed to fly and get my D. They came back and EX W took D on a walk and told her how she had an affair on me 10 years ago and proceeded to tell her all the things I did wrong in the relationship and that is why it happened. She told her that this time she left not because of a guy but she felt herself going that way. D got very upset and defended me a lot in that discussion.

While they were in Hawaii I got the divorce papers ready like my EX W wanted and had everything split pretty much 50/50 with me getting spousal support because I had been the stay at home dad for the past 10 years, put her through nursing school, and supported her career instead of working on mine. I also created the visitation schedule like she had requested and that was she wanted to see D every other weekend and to rotate holidays. When they got back she was given the papers by my lawyer and complained only that she didn't want her name changed back to her maiden one since she was shutting her mom out from her life permanently and complained spousal support was too much. She was happy she said with everything else and thanked me for the visitation schedule.

For the next two months I have been threatened to be sued by her and my D has only received occasional texts that consist mostly of EX W adventures all over the place. This has hurt D very much and eventually she blocked her from texting her anymore. EX W did ask to see her once before the visitation started on August 2nd but that visit did not go very well and only lasted an hour. EX W has gotten nastier and nastier from the moment she got the divorce that she asked for. If she isn't threatening legal action she is demanding things from me. Through almost all of this I pretty much didn't respond at all unless I had to and then it was strictly business. I have not tried to talk about the relationship or even called her or seen her for more than 30 seconds since the day after she left. I have given her everything she wants, divorce, no contact except email, taking care of D, and still she despises me. It is hard to let go of 22 years together and the fact I rebuilt my trust with her after the affair 10 years ago. I loved her unconditionally and to just be thrown away like piece of garbage hurts. The Wednesday after she left I called and she said she had been faking it for years and was tired of faking it anymore. She spent all summer going to the lake with her new friends and travelling all over and now that summer is over she wants to be super mom again and wants more visitation. She has also been saying how she didn't even understand what she signed in the divorce however she certainly understood the financial part. My D hates her and doesn't want to see her at all and honestly I can't blame her.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2863780
09/02/19 12:46 PM
09/02/19 12:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 26,496
Southern Maryland
job Online

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I've copied and pasted in Cadet's Welcome Posting for you to read.


Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-65, D32,S31

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2863782
09/02/19 01:48 PM
09/02/19 01:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
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Steve85 Offline
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Sorry you are going through what you are going through. All I can say is.........

Do all you can to encourage your D to have a relationship with her mom. Trust me on this. You want to bend over backwards to help that relationship nurture. If you do not there will come a time in the future where your D accuses you of ruining her relationship with her mother. Please do all you can including redoing the visitation schedule.

Your D may decide to cut her out of her life (just like your EX W is doing to her mother) in the future, but it won't because of anything you've done.


M(50), W(51),D(15)
M-20, T-22 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2863785
09/02/19 02:13 PM
09/02/19 02:13 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 551
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kas99 Offline
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How old is your daughter? Is the divorce final yet?

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2863935
09/03/19 08:27 PM
09/03/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
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rooskers Offline OP
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The divorce is signed by the judge and is final. My daughter is 13 and in 8th grade. While I have her she has been doing great and even looking forward to a wonderful future together. The last visitation my EXW without notifying me or telling D picked her up and took her to a therapy session with her therapist so they could work their mother daughter relationship. I am not against that I just asked her to notify me and to next time not surprise D with something like that. She just gave a bunch of excuses why she didn't tell me and never acknowledged that she would in the future. The therapist asked some really tough questions in front of her mom that she answered and my D hurt so bad after the visitation with EXW she told me she is going to refuse to see anymore therapists.

EXW is now also sending over the top love letters in the mail everyday to D who after reading them becomes horribly depressed and angry and can't function well the next day at school. During visitations she also grills D on what she is doing in all aspects of her life and D doesn't really want to talk to her about it but said she hounds her all the time about it. During the last visitation D tried to set some boundaries with EXW and that ended so horribly that D called me screaming to come pick her up. I picked her up and EXW did not fight me on it but did email me that it was technically her time but she wouldn't push the issue.

I have done my best to never bad mouth EXW to D but at the same time I am not going to lie to my D either. I believe if I lied to her that would come back to haunt me horribly since D has extreme trust issues right now. I have tried to be encouraging about things D could do during the visits that might help like painting her room, go for walks, craft, or watch TV with EXW. That is about as much encouragement I am willing to offer at this point especially since the more I try to push a relationship between them the angrier my D becomes at me. I was the stay at home dad and my daughter and I are very close and D understands she has hurt me and is in no way remorseful. D also feels like EXW has abandoned her and at this point is not sure if she is willing to pursue a relationship with her. She even has this validated by EXW because EXW has also cut all ties with her own mom (D grandma who D loves).

All I keep doing is trying to provide a stable home for my D and myself and to try not to let my emotions get out of control.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864044
09/04/19 03:49 PM
09/04/19 03:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
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rooskers Offline OP
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Why does the EXW who wanted a divorce, asked me to raise our D, left me for another guy or to find herself constantly so angry with me. I gave her the divorce in the time frame she asked, been taking full care of D without any help, and never contact her about anything other than legal stuff and yet threats and anger spew from her in emails. Other than legal emails I have gone completely dark. I have never tried to go to her work, call her, contact her in a personal matter, checked her Facebook, attempted to go to her new house, accused her of anything. I have only seen her twice in three months, the first time was the day after she left to let her get all her stuff I packed up for her and the second was to drop off D on a visit. When I dropped off daughter I tried to tell her D was not wanting her new friends over when she was visiting but EXW just started screaming "stop hurting me, leave me alone, don't touch me," before I had a chance to open my mouth. She wanted a clean slate I gave it to her, why won't she leave me alone?


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864072
09/04/19 06:02 PM
09/04/19 06:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,495
Colorado
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It is projection. She needs someone to blame besides herself for her choices.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864092
09/04/19 08:35 PM
09/04/19 08:35 PM
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rooskers Offline OP
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She forced D to go to therapy two visitations ago to better work on their relationship. This was a complete disaster for D mental health and now refuses to see any therapists. EXW sends her letters nonstop and is trying to force a relationship with D and it is driving a further wedge. I have taken D to a behavioral specialist and psychologist but EXW insists on meeting with them privately to get guidance on how to help D. The problem that happens is then D does not want to meet with them after EXW talks with them privately. After essentially abandoning D for about two months and lying to her before and after the divorce D does not want a relationship at all especially not a mother/daughter one. EXW thinks couple sessions, handwritten letters, and ice cream will make everything go back to normal with them but she doesn't realize that relationship is forever gone. It will most likely take years, if D wants it, to develop a new different relationship and years more to develop any trust.

I continue to be D's rock and try to keep her life as normal as possible while with me. I am going through so much since my EXW essentially just walked away without any reason given. My car just broke down and is at the repair shop, I have a horrible cold, and EXW keeps sending threatening emails. My work has added even more responsibility to my already busy schedule. Is this really the rest of my life? At least I have my D and we are an amazing team.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864098
09/04/19 08:52 PM
09/04/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,495
Colorado
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Weather the storm. It will pass.


Validate D13 on her feelings. Encourage a relationship with Mother. Guide D13 how to forgive mother.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864105
09/04/19 09:13 PM
09/04/19 09:13 PM
Joined: May 2019
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kas99 Offline
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Quote
EXW thinks couple sessions, handwritten letters, and ice cream will make everything go back to normal with them but she doesn't realize that relationship is forever gone. It will most likely take years,


What is it with WAS's that do this? My WAH has sent flowers, cards, phone calls and a gazillon text messages to D17 trying to get her back. She stopped talking to him 5 months ago and says if he moves us she's never talking to him again. Moving means she loses her home and her beloved pets so yeah she's angry. From what I've read she probably won't forgive him until she's in her 20's. WAH hasn't filed yet so he could fix this but he won't. WAH has stopped pursing her so much since clearly it isn't working. He blames me of course like I have any control over a teenager with a cellphone and a car.

Quote
I continue to be D's rock and try to keep her life as normal as possible while with me. I am going through so much since my EXW essentially just walked away without any reason given. My car just broke down and is at the repair shop, I have a horrible cold, and EXW keeps sending threatening emails. My work has added even more responsibility to my already busy schedule. Is this really the rest of my life? At least I have my D and we are an amazing team.


Same. Sick? Check. Car needs repairs? Check. Work stress? Check.

I haven't heard from WAH in 5 weeks. Things have calmed down here and me/3 teenagers have adjusted. We all pitch in. S19 helps D17 with math. D17 helps with dinner. D14 does the dishes. I do the laundry they fold and put away. The 4 of us are an amazing team. I wonder if this is the rest of my life but I try not to dwell on it because it changes nothing.

Last edited by kas99; 09/04/19 09:15 PM.
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864153
09/05/19 12:08 PM
09/05/19 12:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,305
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AnotherStander Online
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Rooskers, wow you have really been through it! I don't know if you've read DR and other threads on the forum yet, but please do so. Also read all the links Job posted. It will help you understand. Your W isn't a run-of-the-mill WAS (walkaway spouse), she's a WW (wayward wife). WW's can be quite mean and vindictive as you've discovered. It is similar to going through a midlife crisis. She's blowing money on wild vacations, shirking her responsibilities, alienating her daughter, and heaping blame for every problem in her life both great and small on you. We've seen it here over and over again. First, it's HER not YOU. Second, what you've been doing so far is actually textbook DB'ing and is the right approach- give her time and space, leave her alone, don't engage. You cannot do anything to help the situation right now and anything you try will just make her more angry. So the best action is no action. Leave her be and focus on you and D.

Regarding D and XW, there's nothing you can do to fix their relationship. But try not to make it worse. As tempting as it may be, don't bad mouth your XW to D. Don't ask your D about XW either. Don't ask about OM, don't ask what XW is doing, what she's like, nothing. If D brings XW up to you then LISTEN and VALIDATE. Nothing more.

Believe it or not she will probably come out of this at some point in the future and be more like her old self. She may even want to reconcile. That may seem outrageously impossible to you but I've seen it happen. But she has to go on this journey alone, you can't help speed it up.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864202
09/05/19 06:34 PM
09/05/19 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 75
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rooskers Offline OP
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I haven't read any of the books on here but ten years ago when she had an affair I read a ton. The focus last time was how do I get her back but the focus this time is letting her go. The house has been rearranged with help from D13, all pictures of her have been removed, D13 and I are layering memories at our favorite places to visit, D13 and I are taking art classes together, we have already built a pergola to create a comfortable place to relax in our backyard, D13 is switching rooms in the house to create a safe place for her to rest and we have changed all the pictures on the wall and I D13 has had friends over and gone over to friends house to try to create a normalcy for her. I am also trying to work on new goals and dreams for myself but it is hard. As far as her coming back to reconcile, I tried that ten years ago and thought we had succeeded only to be blindsided again. It took me five years to trust her again and I know in my heart I could never trust her again. I doubt there is a thing she could do to even get me to consider taking her back or working on the radioactive waste that was our relationship.

I never badmouth XW but that is mostly because I don't need too. XW has a PHD in destroying relationships with people and she is going all out with D13. My heart and soul are ripped apart because I have had to take D13 to her pediatric medical facility so the oncall pychologist and her can come up with an emergency plan to prevent her from suicidal thoughts when she is at her visitations with XW. I am doing my best to get D13 to see a regular therapist for herself but because XW forced her into group therapy to work on their relationship D13 fears all therapists. I honestly don't care about their relationship right now my focus and the psychologist, behavioral specialist, and school counselor agree D13 needs to work on herself (coping strategies, setting boundaries, self love, confidence) before evening considering whether reunification or reconciliation would be possible or what it might look like.

I try to just take each day as it comes and give all the support and love needed to D13.

Last edited by rooskers; 09/05/19 06:40 PM.

1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864262
09/06/19 04:32 AM
09/06/19 04:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 75
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rooskers Offline OP
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I just got an email claiming XW had no idea what she was doing when she signed the divorce papers and never would have signed them if she had known that she would have such limited time with D13. It has been three months and she didn't even bother to see D13 for two of those months and saw her for only an hour the third month. Now since it didn't work out with the other guy she wants D13 around. The visitation schedule was completely her idea and now she is claiming it was D13 and me that came up with the schedule. She even accused D13 of begging her to sign the divorce papers as they were without making any changes. Everything she says is either completely distorted truth or just an out and out lie. Funny how everything financial in the divorce papers she understood completely just not the visitation schedule. I even have a text from her complaining about spousal support and her name change but telling me everything else she agreed with and even thanked me for the visitation schedule.

I didn't respond to the email at all and have no plans on doing so. She told D13 that she didn't realize what she was signing and was going to fight for time in the middle of the week. D13 told her if she does that she is retaining her own lawyer and going to request full custody for me, no visitation ever, and changing her middle name which is the same as XW. D13 went on to say if she doesn't win, at 16 she will emancipate herself so she can legally never see her again. I can't understand why XW is trying so hard to destroy her relationship with D13 so hard.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864270
09/06/19 06:42 AM
09/06/19 06:42 AM
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Posts: 2,226
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rd500 Offline
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Hi Rooskers, just to say you are doing brilliantly. My W walked out 5 years ago and left the 4 children with me so i have some idea of what you are going through.

You are handling all this c@ap better than most and you rightly point out that your D is the focus here. Keep on being her rock , validate her feelings and let her vent. Your stance on not bad mouthing W is the correct one, your W is caught up in her own narcissus right now and mayne be for many years to come.

Don't hesitate to let your lawyer know of the various threats etc.

Please take time for you, this may feel that it's a hill too big to climb but it's not, read the posts on here , people move forward with thier lives and flourish. Keep positive, for you and your D who seems a very lucky girl to have you as her dad. Follow the wise words of the moderators on here and the very wise words of the site.

Take care , Rd

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864387
09/06/19 04:56 PM
09/06/19 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 75
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rooskers Offline OP
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Thank you all who have replied. Little over three months in and I have brief periods of my brain and body relaxing. Today is not one of them. I am creating a binder and printing out all emails and texts sent by XW. The divorce is final but from the last few emails I believe I need to be prepared for her taking me to court over visitation. The part that scares me is that the end result will most likely be the end of D13 and XW relationship. I know it is out of my hands and so I continue to concentrate on my life and being D13's rock. Putting together this binder and rehashing the entire three months has me throwing up every couple hours and the pain in my heart is almost unbearable. I knew XW since she was 17 and loved her unconditionally. After her first affair she helped me to rebuild trust in our marriage and then sent me a text (couple months ago) saying she broke up with me a long time ago and has been faking it ever since. She deceived me and everyone in my family for 10 years. She led me to believe that we were amazing together and that she loved me. She shattered my heart, my dreams, my daughter while I am left to pick up the pieces.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864528
09/07/19 04:40 PM
09/07/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 75
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rooskers Offline OP
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D13 is very excited for a nice day of relaxation, no emails from XW yesterday or this morning, I am able to get the house cleaned up, and I can catch up on grading homework. This appears to be the beginning of a great day (knock on wood).


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864587
09/08/19 07:03 PM
09/08/19 07:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 75
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rooskers Offline OP
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Yesterday was so amazing. Today I just hurt. No reason why I just find when I have a huge up the down seems to affect me more.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864825
09/10/19 04:52 AM
09/10/19 04:52 AM
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XW after months of being nasty and threatening is all of a sudden being cordial in her emails. She mentioned in one of her emails that she was having surgery soon and couldn't pick D13 up or drop her off for visitation and would have her friends do it, then said something like not that you care or anything. I responded with I care and wish you the best of luck and I would be glad to drop of and pick up D13. Her response was the following:

"Saying thank you doesn't express how truly thankful I am to you for being willing to help with that during my surgery recovery. I will give you copies of all Dr Fife's recovery instructions and I won't be taking any narcotic pain medication while D13 is visiting. I'll be requesting non opioid pain medication. I will keep my home environment safe for D13 at all times. I see the therapist tomorrow and want to ask about a way to keep communication open with D13 and you. You haven't let me know if you want a mediated visit with the therapist but that will remain an open invite if you choose that."

This is the first non-threatening email in months. Why do I feel so on edge about it? She has never mentioned a mediated visit with the therapist during this whole process so I am not sure what she is even talking about. Why in the heck would she want to give me her recovery instructions, we are divorced and I haven't been in contact with her except by email since it was finalized two months ago. Two days ago she was threatening me on email that I wasn't providing D13 with proper care. I would love to hear opinions.

Last edited by rooskers; 09/10/19 04:52 AM.

1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864826
09/10/19 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rooskers
I would love to hear opinions.


Hey Rooskers. I used to get this type of thing too mate, but more a self righteous, factually impossible, curse word riddled verbal spew, then hours later, acting as if nothing happened and normal conversation. Is your XW very strong willed and never wrong in her own mind?

The first line of her email is telling to me. I suspect she feels guilt, and this is a moment of a little clarity there, tinged with a stream of consciousness from her for the rest of the email given you don't know what she's talking about with those other things.

Or, if you are going through Court, it could be a self serving email on her part.

One of the veterans will probably have better insight as to potentially the nature of the email.

Either way, just try to not put any names in any posts here just to keep under the radar with things.

You're a good man Rooskers. Stay strong for your daughter mate!

Cheers, D


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864866
09/10/19 04:30 PM
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She is temp checking. She is testing you. Pass the test.
Originally Posted by rooskers
. I responded with I care and wish you the best of luck and I would be glad to drop of and pick up D13
Better :

H:"I wish you the best of luck and I would be glad to drop off and pick up D13"


Quote
"Saying thank you doesn't express how truly thankful I am to you for being willing to help with that during my surgery recovery. I will give you copies of all Dr Fife's recovery instructions and I won't be taking any narcotic pain medication while D13 is visiting. I'll be requesting non opioid pain medication. I will keep my home environment safe for D13 at all times. I see the therapist tomorrow and want to ask about a way to keep communication open with D13 and you. You haven't let me know if you want a mediated visit with the therapist but that will remain an open invite if you choose that."
Best is not to respond. Respond only to direct questions, and even then, short as possible. IF you ABSOLUTELY NEED TO RESPOND, then the next best option is H"Thanks"


Quote
Two days ago she was threatening me on email that I wasn't providing D13 with proper care. I would love to hear opinions.
Personally, I would be skeptical of anything she says. You are looking for a consistent change in behavior of the long term.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864877
09/10/19 05:44 PM
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I didn't respond to the email at all. I am still trying to figure out why she would even temp check when it is over. We are divorced. All is well though she is back to her usual emails that or filled with lies. I never respond to any of them unless they are absolutely needed for D13. I only responded to this one and put the I care because usually if I said I would pick up and drop off D13 she would get angry at me. I just didn't want strangers to transport D13. It worked smile


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864885
09/10/19 06:50 PM
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That email was strange. I was thinking court but even that makes no sense.

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864890
09/10/19 08:12 PM
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Ok another question for all who have gone through this for awhile. I sent XW an email (the only way we communicate) indicating D13 next counseling appointment as per her request.

Response from XW:

Thank you so much for the update. Can you let me know the plans for my visit time with D13 this weekend?

This is such a nice change from the demands and horrible emails sent in the past. Wow I think co-parenting might be possible. I let her know that D13 and her therapist are going to talk about XW visitation idea and I would let her know what they came up with. Then within minutes I get another email asking if D13 wanted her to attend the back to school event. I asked D13 and kept myself completely neutral giving her the control over her answer since D13 feels she has very little control in her life and she said "absolutely not!". So I send an email back saying D13 asks that you not attend. I thought this should be the end of it. XW responded "ok". I didn't expect that either usually it is something about how I am coercing D13 into hating her or some stuff like that. All was well until a little before 11pm.

XW sends a two page typed email from her phone talking about how she is open to mediated visitation and how she doesn't want to force D13 over but then goes on and on about her legal rights and D13 has to be with her. Then she starts up again on how she didn't understand anything in the divorce papers and didn't realize that she would only get D13 so few days as she does (the visitation was created by her not me and she was happy with it all summer). XW is even rewriting history to claim that the visitation is something D13 and myself came up with. She even told D13 that on her last visit causing D13 to get super super super pissed at her. Then she goes on about how I need to help her build their relationship and how it is not "unhealthy" for D13 to be with her. She talks about how heartbroken she is without D13 and how she can't heal without D13 and the silence from D13 is setting her counseling for herself back. Then she starts bragging about how successful she is at work and how she is in such great financial shape so she is able to afford this amazing lease in an expensive part of town. She keeps going on and on about how "Safe" it is for her. Finally she ends it with "I am legally a co-parent to D13 till she's an adult. She may choose to keep me out of her life at that point but I should have time together with D13 until then."

I have no idea what any of that was about. I have done nothing but encourage D13 to attend her visitations and have even given her ideas to make them more enjoyable. If it wasn't for me all but nearly begging D13 she wouldn't have gone on any of the visitations. D13 has completely unattached from XW and it almost seems like XW is doing what a lot of husbands do when they first find out about their WW. She won't give D13 any space, won't let D13 work with her therapist alone, tries to fill the visitation with non stop stuff. D13 just keeps pulling further and further away. Now it appears she is coming to me to fix it all for her.

I didn't reply back to her email.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864891
09/10/19 08:37 PM
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This is in my signature:
"What is best for me kids is best for me"


It has severed me well.

Always ask yourself:
What is best for my daughter?

In most cases, it is best for the child to have both parents frequently and equally involved in their life. You are responsible for your relationship with your D. You can help guide your D to have a relationship with her mother. Help guide her to forgive. Help guide W to rebuild the R with daughter and gain forgiveness.

Love people, hate bad behavior.

This is what needs to happen. Multiple times if needed. I am in the middle of this with my step daughter16. She knows this very well. We are teaching grandma how to do this now.
Quote
Apologize (I am sorry...)
depersonalize (place action in larger context)
shift intentions (I was trying...)
solidify commitment to change (take concrete steps to assure no repeats)
restore balance (put energy into relationship)
ExampleĒ I am very sorry I put a dent in your car. Nothing was going right that day. I didnít want to give it to the valet because I know how much you love your car. So when I parked it myself on the street, thatís when it got hit. Iíve already called several places and got quotes. Iíll take care of it anyway you want. You can either give me the insurance information or I can give you the quotes. I am also going to have them detail the entire car so it will look like new. Thatís on me. I feel so badly about this happening.Ē


Google "Make peace with anyone"


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2864898
09/10/19 08:59 PM
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Quote
If I was still happily married to my spouse and I wanted to protect our childrenís relationship with the other parent, how would I handle the situation?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865289
09/13/19 09:44 PM
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XW told D13 she didn't have an affair and isn't seeing the guy anymore. I know that doesn't even make sense but then when does the XWW ever make sense? She told D13 that she must have seen some other women with the guy. D13 was having a hard time yesterday because she believes XW and OM are still together and XW is just hiding it. I try to steer her away from thinking about it but she is afraid she will go over for her visitation and he will be there. I don't lie to her and tell her that is a very real possibility. She is going to a therapist and I am hoping her therapist can give her some coping mechanisms. Has anyone gone through this? What things did you do to help your child? Since XW has denied and lied to her about it I feel like it will almost be like a D-day for daughter if her fears are confirmed.

The guy who my D13 and I believe she was having an affair with when I was married to her probably is still in the picture but I pretty much could care less anymore. He can have XW and all the baggage and issues she comes with. If I had met XW for the first time today I could honestly say she isn't my type. Her values, morals, even looks have changed to such a point she is not the same person I new for 22 years. I hate what she did and work toward letting go of my hatred for her. I do hope one day she is truly remorseful for what she has done. For now indifference is the goal!

For me detachment is going great but still a long way to go. No physical/relationship/phone/text contact since 7/22. Email only and that is only in regards to D13.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865315
09/14/19 02:45 PM
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Itís not your job to repair this relationship and I cringe at you begging your daughter to spend time with a mother who chose OM over her. Encourage yes. Beg no. Your ex has a lot of work to do to fix the mess sheís made. She really should have considered the consequences before she made her choices. I donít see how having a relationship with someone this callous benefits your daughter at all.

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865320
09/14/19 04:50 PM
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Well XW has gone a step further in her destruction of R with D13.

XW is the one who requested the parenting plan for D13 be every other weekend (52 days a year) and it was XW decision to not see her the entire summer while she partied with new friends, changed her hair often, traveled to new places, shopped for a brand new sexier clothes style, and got tattoos. So now that summer is over and her friends can't go out with her every weekend what does she do? Well of course she wants D13 around more but D13 hates her. So she just changes the story to fit her needs.

She has told D13 that the only reason she is not able to see her more right now is because D13 created the current parenting plan which prevents XW from being with her. She has also told D13 the only reason she didn't see her more this summer is because D13 told her not to visit. D13 is extremely upset that XW is now blaming her for XW abandoning her. All of what XW has done is because D13 wanted it that way according to XW.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865336
09/14/19 10:30 PM
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Hi Rooskers, please take this as my humble opinion and from my experience. Your D needs to be validated and sometimes this needs to be done by a professional as well as yourself. Your Exw is projecting and thats not healthy for your D. My W left 5 years ago and now only has contact with1 of my 4 children and even with the 1 child shes only sees her every few months ( at d15s request) .

It has taken 5 years for Exw to realise what she lost re her children and Exw kept digging herself a deeper hole re the kids for the first 4 years she was gone.

Keep strong for your D and know you are being her strength and rock throughout the turmoil she is living through. Lots of chapters are still to be written in your book of life and when you get to the end of the book you want to look back and know that every choice you made was for the benefit of D.

Just my humble opinion

Take care , Rd

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865337
09/14/19 10:52 PM
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rd500 Thanks and I agree with your opinion completely. I had D13 in therapy but she didn't like him because she felt as if she was being treated like a little child. I was looking for another therapist for her when XW forced her to go to her therapist to work on their R which caused D13 to become suicidal. D13 then refused to go to another therapist because she didn't trust any of them. I took my daughter to her primary care doctor who then had her see a Behavioral Specialist who finally convinced her to try another therapist. We looked at the list of recommended people and D13 picked out one we both seemed to like. She starts with her new therapist next week and I hope it goes better than the last two. I have also been connecting my daughter with healthy adult women that have been very supportive of her. They don't talk about her mom just show her love, acceptance, and most importantly listen to her when she doesn't feel comfortable sharing certain feelings with me. I endlessly tell my daughter that none of this is her fault.

The problem as I see it is XW doesn't love herself and maybe doesn't even know how to love. Even more heartbreaking is the fact I don't think XW knows how to accept unconditional love. Her mom had her at 16 and told her she was a mistake. Her mom has tried to reconnect in a healthier manner in the past four years helped along a lot by me, (probably one of the mistakes I made in the R) but that ended three months ago with XW telling her she is no longer her daughter and stopping all communication. D13 even commented to me "see dad she stopped being Grandma's daughter so I can stop being hers."


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865340
09/14/19 11:15 PM
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You seen to be doing everything right and thats great especially as you are going through your own incredible trauma. I hope the counsellor can focus on what your D needs and not so.much the realtionship between exw and D right now. Ds feelings are hers , no one else can second guess them and a good councillor will be a god send a help guide D through this very tough time.

In my case i always tried to let the kids express their feelings but i would never join in with negativity towards Exw as i felt that was not healthy and i would always encourage reconnection once i felt Exw was in a healthier place mentally. I do feel for the WAS because i don't think they really understand how their actions effect those around them , especially the ones they love. .My own Exw has emailed me with talk of how she feels she is emerging from a fog and can't believe/ understand how she ended up in the situation she is in.

As tough as it is for the LBS , our children are still in their formative years and this is way harder on them than it will ever be for us. Im not taking away from the heartbreak and devastation that we feel at the time but for a child it is almost unimaginable.

You are doing a fantastic job in incredibly hard circumstances.

Stay strong. Rd

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865356
09/15/19 07:39 AM
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Found out from a friend some of the reasons she said she left me. Apparently I was a huge loser who never worked. It didn't matter I put her through college and was the primary bread winner for the first 5 years of our marriage. When she graduated and became a nurse I became the stay at home dad for the first 6 years of D life and it was the hardest thing I ever did. We both discussed it before I stayed home with D and it was a mutual decision because neither of us wanted to have her raised by strangers in a daycare. For the past 3 years I have worked full time but I didn't make nearly as much as XW because she had already been in her career for 17 years. Now she is telling all her new friends what a loser I was and that I should have been a provider and protector of the family. She lets f-bombs fly about me and apparently I have been manipulating D into hating her. I wish I never had to see or deal with her ever again.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865398
09/15/19 11:15 PM
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HI Rooskers

crazy how your situation is like mine. I see only that your XW is trying to see your D. That is good, kids need both parents during a seperation. Now I say that only if it's a healthy relationship. So far it doesn't sound healthy.

You seem like a solid guy. Looking out for your D. Keeping it real and no lies. Your D is 13, she is well aware of what is a lie and what is the truth. You are her rock. Keep it like that. She will know who she can trust.

Your D13 will come to her own conclusions about her mom. Sad but the way your XW is handling things she will lose her D.

As for your XW. Her telling her friends the reason for leaving you is only to justify her actions. She will feel better is you are the bad guy. Anyone that has witnessed your XW current behaviour, 3 months missing in action , left her D, with a new guy so fast and her personal happiness a priority. They too will see that something is wrong with your XW. Mothers don't put a man or a hobby before their kids. Especially during a hard time such as divorce. This is where she needs to show love, compassion and tell D that she is still loved and it's not her fault. Your XW is in a dark place. She might look happy and confident. That is only a mask to hide her pain from the world.

Don't let the rewriting of history get to you. Keep notes on everthing XW does. Protect your D and yourself. Avoid your XW rollercoaster of being nice one day to attacking the next. I think there are a few spew jackets available from past LBS's , maybe someone can send you one.

Sorry again that you are here Rooskers. But at the same time, I'm happy you are , there is a lot of wisdom here. Read , read , read, don't respond to XW with emotion. Don't try to test her, question her or provoke her. Stay neutral but stay firm. I am sure you got this.

Irish


M50
XW42 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 via text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters with me
D15 and D18
Her divorce was Final July 26 2016
She hasn't seen her kids since Aug 2 2015
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865403
09/16/19 12:03 AM
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Keep up the good work Roo - you're a fantastic dad and your D is lucky to have you mate! Cheers D


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865507
09/16/19 07:40 PM
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I now know why she said I didn't have an affair and I am not seeing that guy anymore. She did have an EA with him maybe PA I have no idea but it ended pretty much after D13 and I outed her in June. My belief is she had three affairs going on at the same time, the first was developing a family relationship with her new group of friends at the gym (she worked out 6 days a week with them the past year) so she had people to help her through leaving me, the second was with my D13's best friend dad which I think was a cover for the real affair, the third was with this guy she met online. I think they were completely separate in the sense that she replaced our family with these friends and OM's with me but they didn't know about each other.

When D13 and I outed her about the relationship with D13 best friends dad she at first told daughter she did take walks with him holding hands and did talk about her marital problems with him. Word got around and all of a sudden he disappeared from her life and she told everyone I was just making stuff up to turn D13 against her (D13 was the one who witnessed it). She even told D13 that it must have been some other girl she saw with him. This enabled her to show to her new exercise family how awful and controlling I was and that she couldn't go anywhere or I would yell accusations at her. I never even accused her of anything only told her D13 did not feel comfortable around him or her exercise friends which D13 asked me to tell her. Regardless he was quickly out of the picture.

The real affair was with some guy from another state. I have no clue how long they have been in communication but I know it was before the divorce was final and he wanted to meet her badly in real life. They finally met in real life last week to do some big obstacle race in a state up north and he even offered to buy her a plane ticket for the event. He is very big into these races and goes all over the country to do them. I also know they have even talked about one of them moving so they can live together but XW at this time won't because of D13 and he validates that by telling her he understood that from the beginning but then goes on about how great his home is. He actually validates every accusation and hateful thing she says about me. The creepiest thing is he looks about 15 years or more older than her and looks exactly like her stepdad and same age as her stepdad when he died of cancer about 12 years ago.

Her stepdad was a super control freak and verbally abusive to her. Now she is idolizing her stepdad to her new friends and this guy. History has been rewritten so that I was the one who was super controlling. It appears that all the harm her stepdad and mom caused her is being blamed on me and she has now found a guy who is in the same profession as her stepdad was, looks like him, and is about the same age as he was when he passed away to replace me. I was replaced by her abusive dad. I have no idea if this guy is abusive emotionally or physically but in every other way he is the same. Even though we are divorced I still worry for XW but I know that there is nothing I can do

Now I know we are divorced and why the heck should I care or even let other people tell me about this stuff. I should tell them I don't care and move on with my life. XW has no idea I know any of this and almost nobody knows I know. It is just hard because I helped her through some extremely tough times with her parents and was always her rock. All those things they did to her is now being piled on me. XW is treating D13 exactly how her mom treated her. I worry so much that the trauma D13 is going through is going to result in this painful cycle never stopping.

I tried to fix a severely traumatized young women 22 years ago and am just now realizing it wasn't possible or even my job to fix the damage in her. I believed if I loved her enough and surrounded her with my family and friends that everything would be all right. The end result was pain, horrible endless pain.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865599
09/17/19 05:05 PM
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Why the heck is the pain so overwhelming today. I feel so much anger which I haven't felt for in two months. D-Day was May 23 and divorce was final in July. When does the anger go away? It seems funny to me that I was never really angry at her during our marriage or even the last time she had an affair. This time I go for a week doing great then raging hot pain and anger come out of no where. Rotating from pain to anger then complete mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual exhaustion.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865609
09/17/19 05:59 PM
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Very sorry. It happens. There's no explanation. Over time the good days become more frequent and the bad days less. Eventually the negative feelings will be replaced with more of a melancholy.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865612
09/17/19 06:23 PM
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Itís tough, Rooskers. Anger is just one of the normal processes you will go through.


Me 43
He 43
D: 18
D: 12
T: 8 years

Bomb 5/10/2014
Back 7/7/2014

Bomb 2 1/28/2016
Back: 5/2016

Bomb 3 4/3/2017
She moved away with SD: 5/27/2017
Back: 8/1/2018

Bomb 4 9/11/2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865766
09/19/19 05:31 AM
09/19/19 05:31 AM
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rooskers Offline OP
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Finally found a therapist for D13 that she seems to like. It feels like a huge weight off my shoulders.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865868
09/20/19 01:43 AM
09/20/19 01:43 AM
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So happy for today. D13 and I had are first evening together filled with laughter.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865898
09/20/19 01:01 PM
09/20/19 01:01 PM
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Good stuff roo glad you found good therapy for your daughter. Keep us posted with how sheís coping as well. Would it be feasible to speak to her teacher to inform generllly they sitch and to keep a discrete eye on your d at school?


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2865923
09/20/19 05:14 PM
09/20/19 05:14 PM
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One of the more difficult things is that I work at her school and teach two of her classes. So my role for D13 in the past three months has been parent, teacher, counselor, and friend. Now that school has started back up I have been encouraging her to do more with her school friends. She has an overnight birthday party this weekend which I hope helps to get her mind off things. Now that she has a therapist she likes I can resume my role as just a father and school teacher. D13 has attended her school since she was three and I have been actively involved and worked here for the same amount of time so all the teachers/administrator/janitors/aids/parents/students know the sitch extremely well. It is a small catholic school so the community is pretty tight and word travels fast.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866117
09/22/19 11:37 PM
09/22/19 11:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
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Sorry Roo I missed that you worked at her school. It seems quite common with the American members on this forum that there are lots of small communities where everyone knows what everyone is up to. That must be tough on you guys especially in the horrible situations of divorce.

There's a very wise vet here called DnJ who raised his children. I'd recommend reading his sitch. He's inspirational.

All the best to you and your D!


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866183
09/23/19 06:00 PM
09/23/19 06:00 PM
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The weekend with D13 went wonderful. She was able to go to a friends birthday party and spend the night there. At first she wasn't going to leave me but after some convincing she agreed to go just for the evening. I knew if she saw her friends that she would want to spend the night so when I got home I packed her an overnight bag and sure enough within an hour I got the text from her saying she wanted to spend the night. She was surprised when I told her I was already on the way with her stuff.

We also spent the weekend decorating the house for fall and Halloween. I have decorated for each holiday since before she was born so this wasn't anything new, but D13 felt it made the house more cheerful so we did it a little bit earlier than usual.

For me I spent the weekend fixing all the leaky faucets in the house. It has been a project I have been wanting to do for a while now but never had the time to do it. Bathroom sinks went great but the kitchen sink was a living nightmare. I got the leak fixed but then the hot water refused to work. Found out the valve below the sink had a washer that disintegrated and the pieces blocked the hose running hot water up to the faucet. Since the hot water heater doesn't have a valve to turn the hot water running to the house off I had to turn off the water supply to the whole house. Since this was all going on I figured I may as well drain the hot water tank and remove sediment build up. I persevered and fixed everything by the end of Sunday and felt proud. What made it even more special was D13 believed I could do it. In the past EW would have just called the neighbor over or called a plumber to do it even if I told her I wanted to give it a try.

I wish I could fix everything for D13 and take away all her pain. She hates the week before she has to visit with EW. She hates that it feels like a countdown until she has to go. She hates how EW makes her feel guilty all the time for everything. She hates that her mom physically looks different, and acts completely different. I listen to her, hold her, let her cry, encourage her to journal her feelings, try to help her come up with ideas to make the visitation more pleasant, and let her know I will be there for her when she comes back. It rips my heart apart to see her in such pain.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866352
09/24/19 09:33 PM
09/24/19 09:33 PM
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Well I knew it would come and read or heard about it a thousand times but guess who can't afford child support this paycheck. This is one of the reasons I have been saving like mad and built up the emergency savings as quick as possible. EW wants to spend more time with D13 and keeps saying how much she cares but I guess new roof rack, paddle board, kayak, Seattle trip, concerts with new friends are far more important than me being able to pay for the therapy sessions, food, and school uniforms for D13. Only venting on here so I don't let it slip when D13 is around or be tempted to send off a sarcastic email to EW. I will be fine but sometimes I just throw my hands up in the air and wonder why I expected something different.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866510
09/26/19 05:23 PM
09/26/19 05:23 PM
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D13 had her second therapy session and afterwards the therapist came out and surprised me. She said it would be a good idea to change the visitation schedule for D13's emotional health and stability. I am not in the therapy sessions and what they discuss is confidential but the therapist believes for the next 3 months to a year it would be in D13's best interest to lessen the visitation time with XW.

I really don't want to get the lawyer involved for this so I am hoping to construct a carefully written email to XW with the request provided by D13 and her therapist.

D13 Plan of Action
Step 1: Provide D13 with the tools and resources to gain an emotional stability that will help her be a confident healthy individual.
Step 2: For D13 to feel safe and comfortable around XW and her new place so she can stay there.
Step 3: To develop a new healthy relationship which enables more time to be spent together with XW.

Unfortunately this process will likely take years and all the steps may never happen. Love to hear peoples thoughts on this.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866520
09/26/19 06:58 PM
09/26/19 06:58 PM
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Wow, Rooskers, hang in there. Is there any way you could get the therapist to speak directly with your XW? I have a friend whose D11 is having a really difficult time stemming in great part to his XW's new H, D11 doesn't want to be at the XW's house anymore (they have 50/50 custody), etc. The therapist insisted on meeting with all four co-parents to talk about the situation which was a lot more helpful than my friend trying to tell his XW that her H was not being supportive enough to the D11... anyway, it might help to take you out of the communication loop with the therapist so that your XW can't accuse you of anything.

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866547
09/27/19 02:02 AM
09/27/19 02:02 AM
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I am not sure. If the therapist meets with XW, D13 has already said she will never go back to therapy. That was the problem we had with her last therapist and it took a lot of convincing to get her to go. I need D13 in therapy to work on herself so she doesn't become a danger to herself.

D13 has had to go through most of what us adults on this board have gone through. The lieing, coldness, abandonment, left for another daughter. She witnessed the affair without XW realizing, when dropped off for activities daughter asked her to stay but mom told her no she was to busy, saw and heard all the vileness that comes from WW wife at the time, was lied too, felt traded in for OM daughter, witnessed her mom and grandma get into a physical fight, saw her mom go into a manic state while in Hawaii a trip birthday trip planned for D13 since she was in first grade, as a child was made to stand in the corner because mom didn't want to deal with her while vacuuming, yelled at for not being good enough for getting B+'s in class, being told you have a special bond with your dad but not me, abandoned for the summer, felt her mom has ignored her for the past couple years, feels mom is laying a guilt trip on her for not wanting to be with her, and is being told by her mom it is her fault for her mom not spending time with her this summer. The list is actually much longer.

Do WAW/WW realize the damage done to a teenager? My XW can't understand D13 because in her mind all she did was break up with me and nothing more. Meanwhile, once a week I hold my screaming daughter in my arms. You know how hard it is to not hate my XW when I have to see my daughter in this much pain. Prying my daughter out of my arms because she has to go to XW house. Praying that she doesn't end her life because she hurts so bad. Somehow I am suppose to forgive and become indifferent towards XW? Will the anger for what she has done and is doing to D13 ever go away? Has anyone had this happen? I am sorry right now I hate that women more than anything and that includes my alcoholic biological dad who molested me as a child. I hurt not for what has been done to me but for what I see my daughter going through. I hate that women!


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866612
09/27/19 07:29 PM
09/27/19 07:29 PM
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This is so unfair for a 13 year old to have to go through all of this-- she is so lucky to have you as her dad. I agree that she is absolutely your priority and keeping her in counseling is a must. Seems like your XW is not capable of making decisions in the best interest of her child and maybe you will have to go the lawyer route-- not that I know anything about it, but just from what you've written I can't imagine that a judge would not give you full custody. The stakes are too high.

You know you are doing the best you possibly can for your daughter and being the best dad you can. Try just to focus on her. One thing my friend is doing with his D11 that seems to be helpful is she knows that she can call him anytime, day or night, and he'll drive over to his XW house and get her, talk, or give her whatever she needs. That has helped her to be less anxious about being at her house. He also has taken a couple of days off of work just to hang out with her and spend time together, which he said seems to really be helping her confidence in knowing he is always there for her regardless of the mom and stepdad situation. (she has also talked about hurting herself.)

Last edited by job; 09/27/19 09:58 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866625
09/27/19 09:36 PM
09/27/19 09:36 PM
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Quote
the therapist believes for the next 3 months to a year it would be in D13's best interest to lessen the visitation time with XW.


Finally someone with reason. The general consensus is that it's in the best interest of the child to have a relationship with the WAS when sometimes it's just not. Sometimes kids need to heal first from being left behind before reestablishing a relationship with the WAS.

As far as do WAS's know what they are doing to their kids? Depends on the WAS. My WAH assumed he could leave and the kids would understand. Society says kids will be just fine after a divorce. Most kids are fine but some aren't. Its a gamble.

Last edited by kas99; 09/27/19 09:44 PM.
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866696
09/28/19 05:49 PM
09/28/19 05:49 PM
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It has been a little over 4 months since BD and 2 months since divorce and D13 and I had the weirdest thoughts and feelings yesterday. We were washing the dishes and doing laundry when it occurred to us how strange it would be if XW ever came to the house. I don't mean in a bad way I just mean how much of a stranger she has become to us. It was not that long ago she would be helping us with dishes or going upstairs to what was then our room or using the upstairs bathroom. If she was here now I would feel weird if she went upstairs like it was an invasion of my privacy. If she tried to do dishes it would feel like the delivery person coming in and offering to do my dishes. D13 said "This is our home and I am not sure if I would ever invite her in." She then clarified that it wasn't to be mean it would just feel like inviting a door to door salesperson inside and letting them walk around our house.

This is certainly better than the pain we have felt and even a little joy in the moving on, but at the same time there is a little sadness in it as well


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866737
09/29/19 10:29 AM
09/29/19 10:29 AM
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Thats a great mind set roo. Would it be prudent to explore your daughters mindset about her mum though with her ic?


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866746
09/29/19 02:36 PM
09/29/19 02:36 PM
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D13 had her Friday and Saturday. She ignored D13 Friday and when D13 woke up and was coming down stairs she heard XW with a guy friend over and they were both laughing while talking trash about me. We are divorced so XW of course can have any guy friends she wants but D13 is having a hard enough time being over there and connecting, why would you surprise her with a strange guy first thing in the morning. D13 also says her house and car smell like pot and she thinks she is smoking it.. It isn't illegal here but for D13 it is just another thing that is making her feel like her mom is a stranger to her.

I told her to write both things in her journal and bring it up with her therapist. Luckily she calmed down quickly because I had made homemade soup which caused the house to smell amazing and then after eating took her over to a friends house and we played card games. When we got home she was down again so I held her until she fell asleep in my arms.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866760
09/29/19 06:14 PM
09/29/19 06:14 PM
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I think this could potentially be a good thing. From what youíve said she only tries to be super mom when sheís in between men. She ignored your D on Friday so sheís already slipping. Your ex puts her needs above everyone elseís. So sad for your D. So sad for you.

Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866790
09/30/19 01:36 AM
09/30/19 01:36 AM
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Hey Roo

You're doing great buddy. You're a fine dad, and your daughter will benefit from the steely resolve and stability you bring to her life.

I'd suggest though speaking to your L about these recent developments in the context of what duties you may have in continuing to act protectively of your daughter, particularly given the drug allegations. I'd relay all this to your lawyer and get advice.

I'm not sure how the Family Law system works in the USA sorry, so ask your lawyer and do it quickly please.


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866874
09/30/19 06:36 PM
09/30/19 06:36 PM
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Quote
'd suggest though speaking to your L about these recent developments in the context of what duties you may have in continuing to act protectively of your daughter, particularly given the drug allegations.


Nothing can be done about her inviting some strange guy over in the morning because we are divorced and I never had that stipulation of no guys over put in the paperwork. My fault completely, but at the time I didn't think it would have been a problem.

Nothing can be done about the drug allegations because this drug is completely legal where I live. It might have been something to use in the divorce if we had fought over custody and visitation but I didn't need to fight she only wanted D13 for 52 days of the year. Since the divorce is final the judge would treat smoking pot the same as if she smoked cigarettes.

Besides that life is going great and D13 and I are planning a vacation during Christmas. We both agreed we need to start some new traditions while not completely throwing out the old ones.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866924
10/01/19 06:19 AM
10/01/19 06:19 AM
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Sorry Roo - I'm amazed the drug is legal. Not your fault mate - unless youre a mind reading magician.

Where are headed for the xmas holidays?

New traditions sound like a great idea.

Good work Roo


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2866980
10/01/19 06:05 PM
10/01/19 06:05 PM
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In keeping with the old traditions we have decorated the house for Halloween and plan on going overboard for Christmas. We like the feeling it gives us as we walk into our house. We have been invited to a Halloween party and have already gotten D13's costume. She wants to be Piglet and her friends will be Pooh, Tiger, and Eeyore.

Both of us wanted to go on a road trip and we are desperately trying to layer memories over old ones. So we talked about what to do for Christmas and she has decided that she wants to go to Disneyland. We were there once before but she says the memory of it hurts her a lot because we had gone as a family that no longer exists. So off to Disneyland we go to create new fun filled memories.

All that aside I feel like it is difficult to get a new social life or be able to GAL as an adult. My life pretty much consists of work, raising D13, and house chores. I am having a great time and love it but not sure what I will do in couple years when D13 is driving and I am alone a lot more. I was a family man and loved every minute of it and was really looking forward to spending time with my XW when D13 got older and now I have to completely rethink what I want to even do. I am not afraid of being alone but just haven't really found anything that has caught my interest. I guess I will figure it out eventually.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867195
10/03/19 05:14 PM
10/03/19 05:14 PM
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D13 is having a really hard time today. I can't seem to find a lot of good books and information for teens going through what she is experiencing. Most seem geared to little children or geared toward two people splitting on wonderful terms with both parents mentally and emotionally stable. Talking with a friend last night got me questioning myself. How do I help prepare D13 in dealing with a narcissistic mother and at the same time not cross into bashing XW. Should I even be helping at all in that area? Then there is the questioning of am I the one who needs the help and should someone be preparing or giving D13 the tools to deal with me?


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867493
10/07/19 04:47 AM
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It was a very good weekend. D13 and I went up to my friends hunting camp and D13 learned how to chop firewood, build campfires, and roast hotdogs over a fire. The next day we went to a really awesome pumpkin patch where we got lost in a huge corn maze. The maze was so big it even needed a map. I have been taking her to the same pumpkin patch since she was one. It was the first year we did it without XW and we were both having a difficult time but we pushed through it.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867503
10/07/19 12:27 PM
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Keep being the lighthouse for your D Roos. Creating new memories, GAL, thatīs the way to detach and move forward.

You need to be the healthy parent there Roos. Keep sending D to IC. Thatīs really important at her age.

Stand there and shine bright man.

Hugs for you and D. Be strong. You are doing a good work. Go on with that.

(((Roos)))


WW H(me): 49
W: 44
T: 24 M: 19
S: 14
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867780
10/09/19 05:35 PM
10/09/19 05:35 PM
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EW gave me BD on May 23 and left on May 24. She picked up all her stuff on May 25 and has never been back to the house again. May 28 we had one MC appointment in which she said nothing other than it is over and she doesn't want to meet again. Divorce was finalized on July 18. Since May 23 she has never brought up anything about our 22 year relationship or marriage. I have only talked to her on the phone since then 3 times and once the divorce was final it has only been through email. The only communication we have ever had has been her threatening me legally for stupid stuff, financial concerns, or visitation. I have physically seen her maybe 3-4 times since she left and each time was only for about 30 seconds to a minute.

Mostly this was just to journal because every so often I am still shocked with disbelief. The day before she left she was still telling me she loved me and looking forward to the Hawaii trip. I know now that was all a lie to keep me from understanding that she had been planning on leaving for a long time. It just seems shocking that she truly just walked away from her entire family of 22 years without a word about it then or now.

I think it hit me hard because D13 told me yesterday that she loved our family more than anything in the universe and she was angry her mom threw it away. I held her while she vented and shed a tear or two myself. Her mom won't let her bring up anything from the past or just quickly changes the subject when she is over there. D13 believes she is choosing to erase all memories about our family both good and bad so she can continue her desire for a clean slate.

It all seems such a waste frown


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867783
10/09/19 05:42 PM
10/09/19 05:42 PM
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Itís amazing how this stuff plays out, Rooskers. There is no rhyme or reason.

Regarding your ExW, I would think itís very likely sheís a narcissist. If you read up on narcissism, you will probably notice a lot of your Exís traits.

It has nothing to do with you.


Me 43
He 43
D: 18
D: 12
T: 8 years

Bomb 5/10/2014
Back 7/7/2014

Bomb 2 1/28/2016
Back: 5/2016

Bomb 3 4/3/2017
She moved away with SD: 5/27/2017
Back: 8/1/2018

Bomb 4 9/11/2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867786
10/09/19 06:20 PM
10/09/19 06:20 PM
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We canīt run away from ourselves Roos. No matter how fast we run. But, as Thornton says, it has nothing to do with you now.

Let her go, detach and be there for D13.

Be strong man. Itīs about you and D13 now.

Hugs for both of you.
(((Roos)))


WW H(me): 49
W: 44
T: 24 M: 19
S: 14
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867802
10/09/19 07:44 PM
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Just makes no sense, does it. None at all. I don't think I've ever seen a WAS ramrod a divorce through as quickly as yours Rooskers. It defied comprehension. It does remind me of my friend whose W did something similar, although she never filed for D. They had zero contact for two years after selling their house and business. Not a single email, call or text. Nothing. And now they are back together because the same woman that wanted out so bad also wanted back in really bad. Your XW is on some kind of journey that only she can make.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867809
10/09/19 08:18 PM
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Regarding your ExW, I would think itís very likely sheís a narcissist. If you read up on narcissism, you will probably notice a lot of your Exís traits.


Thorton I had a lot of trouble when all my friends and even XW own mother said this. She was always so happy, generous, caring, and didn't really brag about herself or exhibit characteristics of what I thought a narcissist was. A friend then sent me the following and it describes her perfectly. D13 has even noticed that she is already doing the following bolded things with her new friends and guys she is around. The last part is what is being done to me and has been for a long time. I never realized there were different types of narcissists.

Vulnerable Narcissist

The most prominent of vulnerable narcissism traits is a constant victimization mentality. They are always the victim, and always require sympathetic attention.

They are emotionally draining to be around. Mostly because of how sensitive they are on top of being emotionally demanding. Their mission in life is to get the people around them to see them as the perfect creatures they are.

Vulnerable narcissists are quite prone to developing depression. The life they live does not meet the fantasy of the life they feel entitled to.

There is an infuriating misconception among people who donít understand personality disorders or mental illness, that people hurt themselves (or threaten to do so) because they are seeking attention. So, this needs to be said and understood with great caution: Vulnerable narcissists are one of the few people who to make threats of self-harm in order to get attention. They rarely follow through with it.

Vulnerable narcissists mostly appear introverted and calm. But emotional regulation can still be difficult for the confusing self-esteem issues they have.

The first line of narcissistic defenses includes being passive aggressive and shutting people out to punish them. They will always play the victim card because they will always see themselves as the victim. Regardless of the circumstances.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867811
10/09/19 08:23 PM
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Thanks Thorton, neffer, and AS smile I am doing really good in the letting go and detaching for myself. In fact, I really can't even imagine a life with my XW anymore. I was surprised the other day when D13 brought up a trip from the past and I realized I couldn't even recall if my XW had gone. She must have gone on the trip but I can't picture her being there at all.

The hard part is watching D13 struggle so hard. She goes to see her IC every week and that is helping somewhat. I think D13 realizes I am not hurting nearly as much anymore and now feels she doesn't have to be strong for me and can release her feelings of anger, hurt, and sadness. She shared her feelings before but now they are coming out full force. She is an amazingly strong young women but tells me she feels so broken inside and each time she tries to put two pieces together her mom breaks them into even smaller pieces. At lease that is a step up from a week ago when she said she was completely shattered and the pieces could never be put back together.

She says I have become an excellent listener. An example is yesterday I ironed her uniform skirt and shirt for school and she broke down in tears because she thinks that she looks horrible in a skirt. My first reaction was to tell her she is crazy and looks great in skirts, she was being to hard on herself, and try to fix her feelings. Now, I let her know that it can be difficult when we don't feel confident in what we are wearing and asked her which outfit helped her to feel more confident. When she told me I ironed that for her to wear to school instead. AnotherStander you have been a huge influence in this from all your posts I have read on this forum.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: AnotherStander] #2867816
10/09/19 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Just makes no sense, does it. None at all. I don't think I've ever seen a WAS ramrod a divorce through as quickly as yours Rooskers. It defied comprehension


I was about to post this same thing. It's only been 6 months meaning NC isn't all that uncommon at this stage. My WAH left 6 months ago and I've seen him 3-4 times, we don't speak, etc.

WAH intended on pushing through a divorce through in 6 months and he could have easily. He ran out of here and to the nearest attorney's office. I've seen people do this because they'd been planning this for years. To them its slow to us it's fast. My WAH hesitated for reasons unknown and here I am.

Last edited by kas99; 10/09/19 08:55 PM.
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2867832
10/09/19 11:25 PM
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Hey Roo,

How you coping buddy?

The suddeness really is crazy isn't it. Like yours, mine also seemed like a light switch was flicked in a matter of hours. I don't think there is an answer, though we search, don't we.

What's your XW's age? Was she going through menopause? Did she have childhood abuse, abandonment or neglect? The answers could be there. If it's not against your principles, go see a good psychic. They might have some answers.

It does bring tears to your eyes sometimes with what the kids say. My S said a few weeks ago he was wondering why I wear my family signet ring where my wedding ring was. I told him its not my wedding ring finger I wear my signet ring on. He asked where my wedding ring was then, and I told him I've got it kept away safe and sound. I shed a few tears after I got up and walked away from my son.

Don't let memories of the past eat you up and consume you Roo. Push them to the side and quash them immediately until you feel ready to deal with and process them as part of your healing journey.

You're a good dad mate! Keep it up!

Cheers, D


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868052
10/11/19 10:14 PM
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What's your XW's age?


She is 40 and was 30 when she had her last affair.

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Did she have childhood abuse, abandonment or neglect?


She has relatives that her mom says are bipolar. Her aunt lives in Las Vegas and is addicted to drugs and was a prostitute for years. Her mom had her at 16 and told her she was a mistake. Her biological dad was never in the picture. Her stepdad was a very controlling and emotionally unstable. She was kicked out of her house at 16 but later I found out she kinda of left to join a church and marry some boy (never married the boy though). Her stepdad died of cancer right after D13 was born. So yes she has a lot of childhood issues.

Quote
Don't let memories of the past eat you up and consume you Roo. Push them to the side and quash them


I try not to push them aside or quash them but let all the toxic emotions do what they need to do and then let them flow out of me. It is an immensely painful process. For example, I purposely went to a location we had an amazing date night and let all the memories flow through me including the sadness and pain. It hammers at my heart and soul but afterward I feel a little stronger and am able to move forward a tiny bit more. It usually takes multiple times to fully experience and let go of all the feelings and emotions each memory brings up but I do it anyways. I like to think of this quote as the technique I am using to heal. No longer will I bury the pain.

Quote
Strength through adversity. The strongest steel is forged by the fires of hell. It is pounded and struck repeatedly before itís plunged back into the molten fire. The fire gives it power and flexibility, and the blows give it strength. Those two things make the metal pliable and able to withstand every battle itís called upon to fight.

Last edited by rooskers; 10/11/19 10:15 PM.

1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868195
10/14/19 06:28 AM
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D13 had her scheduled visit and it went better than all the rest. Huge relief, but XW still doesn't know how to interact with D13 and doesn't respect any of her boundaries or wishes.

-D13 was not happy because at drop off I hugged her, smiled, and waved (at D13 only) because that is what she wanted but boy did it not sit well with XW. I tried not to pay attention but XW kept shooting me glares that could have turned Medusa to stone. I ignored her glares and kept smiling and waving to D13 because she says it helps her. D13 said XW was angry, cold, and scowling for at least the next 10 minutes after that. XW still believes D13's love should be a competition I would guess but who knows.

-XW picked her up and D13 noticed they weren't going to XW new place so D13 asked where they were going and XW said "I want to take you to the park." D13 was kinda mad because she wasn't feeling well and just wanted to lay down and relax but XW didn't ask or give her the option.

-XW continues to barrage her with questions about what she does with me but I am never to be brought up in the conversation.

-D13 told her she would like to do this craft project with pillows and XW bought all the stuff with her two visits ago but each time D13 brings it up XW dismisses it. D13 has given up on asking to do the craft project with her.

-One of the addictions or mental issues XW has is the constant need to work out (when we were together she literally couldn't touch me if she hadn't worked out). Her workout friends are the ones that have become her new "family" and they encouraged her to leave the marriage and family. D13 said she does not wish to associate with them but XW again asked D13 if she would like to go to the gym with her. I laugh because they only have one full day together every 2 weeks and XW wants to use that time to take D13 to the gym? The one place D13 doesn't want to ever go and people she doesn't want to be with and that is what XW brings up.

And yes I did say this has been the best visitation so far frown Oh well, I had homemade chicken noodle soup for D13 when she got home and the next day took her to the mall with a friend to go dress shopping for the school dance coming up.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868260
10/14/19 07:01 PM
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Going to be snarky.

Quote
D13 said XW was angry, cold, and scowling for at least the next 10 minutes after that.


XW is jealous that the world doesn't revolve around her.

Quote
-XW picked her up and D13 noticed they weren't going to XW new place so D13 asked where they were going and XW said "I want to take you to the park." D13 was kinda mad because she wasn't feeling well and just wanted to lay down and relax but XW didn't ask or give her the option.


And the world revolves around her again.

Quote
-XW continues to barrage her with questions about what she does with me but I am never to be brought up in the conversation.


And again.


-
Quote
D13 told her she would like to do this craft project with pillows and XW bought all the stuff with her two visits ago but each time D13 brings it up XW dismisses it. D13 has given up on asking to do the craft project with her.


And again.

Quote
-XW wants to use that time to take D13 to the gym?


.....and you guessed it her again.

Last edited by kas99; 10/14/19 07:02 PM.
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868262
10/14/19 07:06 PM
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From Ready2Change in another thread.

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Stop judging her. How hard is it for you to change your behavior? How much harder do you think it is to change someone elses behavior? She is not going to change until you change the way you interact with her. Even then, it will take her significantly longer. Why? Because you KNOW you need to change and she does not know she has to change. You have a whole team of people supporting you. She does not.


I love reading R2C advice and really looking at myself deeply. It is very difficult to not judge how my XW treats D13. I journal here about it but do not engage XW ever about any of it. D13 has a therapist who works with her and I try to just listen to D13 when she talks about it and give advice only sparingly.

The most difficult thing for me is I am not sure what I need to change about myself. I am not sure what the 180's should be or the big changes I need to make for myself.

-I am learning to listen better and take off my hat as a teacher when I am home with D13.
-I am reading self improvement books but have always read these and tried to implement portions of them in my life.
-I have added more exercise to my life, but don't feel I have to go to the gym to get "ripped".
-I have scaled back the work schedule in my life to spend more time with D13 but I had been making those changes for a couple years now. XW complained I didn't work when I was a stay at home dad but then was upset I didn't spend time with her when I did work?
-I have been working on not procrastinating. Example I have been putting off fixing all the leaking faucets in the house so couple weekends ago I just got it done.
-I have definitely been working on not letting my job stress me out as much.
-I have really tried to alter my communication style to include a lot more validation.
-I am learning to forgive myself.
-I am learning to forgive my XW.

Well Rooskers you just wrote a huge list of changes so why are you asking this, because I have always been working on these things. XW never complained about much in our R and when she did, like the working to much, I tried to make the necessary changes. She said I was too controlling of the finances so I let her take over the finances. Friends, family, and, coworkers said she never said anything negative about me and was always thankful for all of my contributions. The only exception to that is when she was having her first affair and possible second affair I was completely demonized. I look inward and try to reflect as much as I can on my 50% and can certainly see lots of things I could have improved on but I also realize there was no way I could have been perfect. I guess it just hurts when I reflect back the biggest complaint which she shared with her counselor during the first affair and with D13, was that I didn't build D13's crib when she was pregnant. If I could turn back time I would have built the crib a thousand times but I don't think it would have made a difference.

After second BD she said she didn't love me, broke up with me a long time ago, had been faking it for years, didn't want to tell me the reasons, wanted a divorce, never wanted to see me again, never wanted me to call her, for me to raise D13 but let her see her sometimes, and then she left. So I gave her the space she wanted, the divorce she wanted, am raising D13 like she wanted, and all I receive is utter hatred from her. D13 says that XW believes I am the most horrible, disgusting, nasty human being on the planet. Last time I tried to fight by talking, MC, working on our love languages, begging, pleading, working on just me and a whole host of other things but this time I fought by just letting her go. In some way I feel as if I have hurt XW so deeply that she felt forced to just walk away to start a "clean slate" as she put it. It is hard that I feel like the person I loved most in my life, other than D13, I some how hurt that badly and have no idea what I did.

I am sure there is some women's group that would read this and say "typical stupid male ego, they never know what they do and deserve what they get." Well all I can say to that is I am willing to learn but never deserved any of this and neither did my daughter.

For whoever reads this, thank you for listening.


Last edited by rooskers; 10/14/19 07:13 PM.

1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868277
10/14/19 08:38 PM
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kas99 you made my day with your post. Why can't I really see her behavior until some puts it that clearly to me.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868287
10/14/19 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rooskers
For whoever reads this, thank you for listening.
My Pleasure.



Quote
The most difficult thing for me is I am not sure what I need to change about myself.
The beautiful thing is, you can change whatever you want.

One way to make changes: Your emotions are there to help guide your changes. Most people blame external things rather than self reflect. Next time you get frustrated with anybody, recognize that you are frustrated, Internally forgive them, shift into compassionate listening mode, and focus hard on understanding the other person.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: Ready2Change] #2868338
10/15/19 05:15 PM
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One way to make changes: Your emotions are there to help guide your changes. Most people blame external things rather than self reflect. Next time you get frustrated with anybody, recognize that you are frustrated, Internally forgive them, shift into compassionate listening mode, and focus hard on understanding the other person.


I sound like a hypocrite when I give advice only because I can't make this stick (yet).

My WAH left because of me. When I'm frustrated sometimes I can find compassion for WAH. He wants to be happy and because I love him I imagine the peace he has knowing he had the courage to make this very difficult decision. I imagine all the pain I caused him and I picture him smiling because it's over. I imagine the relief he must feel. He can do whatever he wants without repercussions. He's free from pretending and now can live an authentic life. He now has hope for a better future. I imagine the support he's getting from his friends and imagine him being able to breathe and relax. He can have hobbies, sleep as late as he wants, have more money, go out with the guys, date women who aren't mentally ill (lol) he's in control of his life now. No more walking on eggshells. He's free.

I can't do this TODAY but I can do it sometimes. lol

Last edited by kas99; 10/15/19 05:20 PM.
Re: 22 years gone [Re: kas99] #2868358
10/15/19 07:23 PM
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Many worries Online
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Originally Posted by kas99
Quote
One way to make changes: Your emotions are there to help guide your changes. Most people blame external things rather than self reflect. Next time you get frustrated with anybody, recognize that you are frustrated, Internally forgive them, shift into compassionate listening mode, and focus hard on understanding the other person.


I sound like a hypocrite when I give advice only because I can't make this stick (yet).

My WAH left because of me. When I'm frustrated sometimes I can find compassion for WAH. He wants to be happy and because I love him I imagine the peace he has knowing he had the courage to make this very difficult decision. I imagine all the pain I caused him and I picture him smiling because it's over. I imagine the relief he must feel. He can do whatever he wants without repercussions. He's free from pretending and now can live an authentic life. He now has hope for a better future. I imagine the support he's getting from his friends and imagine him being able to breathe and relax. He can have hobbies, sleep as late as he wants, have more money, go out with the guys, date women who aren't mentally ill (lol) he's in control of his life now. No more walking on eggshells. He's free.

I can't do this TODAY but I can do it sometimes. lol



I found it's so much easier to be detached, rationale and clear thinking with dealing with other people's situations. It's hardly hypocritical, it's being human.

Re: 22 years gone [Re: Many worries] #2868363
10/15/19 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Many worries
I found it's so much easier to be detached, rationale and clear thinking with dealing with other people's situations
That is why helping others helps ourselves. After telling others not to touch the hot pan on the stove multiple times, much easier not to touch the hot pan ourselves.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868366
10/15/19 08:04 PM
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D13 and I go for a walk every evening to help clear our heads and talk about anything that is troubling our mind. So last night she tells me that when she goes to bed at her mom's house and some time has passed by she hears her mom leave the house for the night. Her mom doesn't tell her she is leaving and seems to go when she believes D13 is asleep and returns sometime in the morning before D13 is awake.

I let D13 know that she can ask her mom about it, but D13 is too afraid to ask. I will have her bring it up with her therapist. All I can do is let her know if she is ever in real danger to call 911 and if she isn't in danger but just doesn't want to be alone she can always call me or a friend.

I just don't understand frown


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868374
10/15/19 08:55 PM
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Oh man, Rooskers.

That sounds exactly like my ExW (not my current W). She would leave our D7 home alone so she could go out partying. I remember one time, my D7 (she's 18 now) called me and said that she was getting up one morning to start getting ready for school and her mom walked in the house wearing no shoes, she had been out drinking all night and came home drunk at 6am.

I called child protective services and they said I would have to prove my ex was out all night, they couldn't just take my D7's word for it. Thankfully my D came to live with me soon thereafter.

I wish I knew why people do what they do, including leaving their kids home alone at night to go party.


Me 43
He 43
D: 18
D: 12
T: 8 years

Bomb 5/10/2014
Back 7/7/2014

Bomb 2 1/28/2016
Back: 5/2016

Bomb 3 4/3/2017
She moved away with SD: 5/27/2017
Back: 8/1/2018

Bomb 4 9/11/2019
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868522
10/16/19 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rooskers


I just don't understand frown


Hey Roo,

Man, you keep getting smashed buddy, but you know what, you just keep on keeping on.

I think something goes a bit haywire in their brain circuitry when they do these things. My XW doesn't do this, but I distinctly and disquietingly remember a few months ago having a 'normal' chat with her and she blurted 'sometimes I wish I didn't have kids'. Something has gone funny in their brains mate, taking them back to their younger years. I think it's the childhood trauma they themselves suffered.

How you doing at the moment mate?

Cheers DS


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: 22 years gone [Re: rooskers] #2868538
Yesterday at 02:46 AM
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My sister was like this due to yes childhood trauma. Her 2 girls are adults now. One is seriously screwed up the other one is okay because her dad is a good guy.

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