I have a longish history, so to catch anyone up, here's a synopsis:
We had a fabulous, wonderful marriage for 15 years, but things started unravelling, and we weren't really happy or close for about 10 years.
W desperately unhappy, severely depressed.... left me in July 16.
GAL, 180's, personal growth, self reflection to understand my flaws, got a girlfriend, moved on with my life, yada yada. But I've never been able to fully detach from her, and the dream of reconciliation (it's been an issue).
We've always gotten along well, even in the darkest days of D, to the point that people here and IRL have said how unusual it was.
The D has taken forever; she hasn't pushed it forward aggressively, and I'm not going to do it for her. Having said that, it should be finished shortly, less than a month. Everything is done except the final court appearance.
About a month and a half ago she absolutely blows my mind by telling me she wants to reconcile. She's been undergoing a new anti depression therapy that has been miraculous, and realizes how badly she misses me and wants to get back together. I tell her I need time to think about it.
I go see our marriage counsillor, who says something that resonates. "Now that she's opened the door to reconciliation, can you continue in your relationship with GF without continually looking back and wondering, "What if?"? and if not, is that fair to GF?"
I think about that question for a month, before telling GF I need to explore this with W. All in all, it went reasonably well. She's not waiting, but wishes me the best.
From here on out it's mostly just journalling.....
I'm very guarded. I'm hopeful, but not optimistic, if that makes sense. I hope we can put our marriage back together, but don't really believe she understands what needs to change for me to be happy in our relationship. Things have changed enough in the last three years that I'm not willing to settle anymore for a mediocre wife. I'm willing and able to be the worlds best husband, and I deserve no less than a wife who is my equal.
I tell W we can see if reconciliation is possible, but it will not be quick. I am unwilling to move forward quickly, and she needs to regain my trust. She knows I understand how my behaviors contributed to her unhappiness, and knows I am resolved to behaving differently. She is clueless as to how her behaviors contributed to my unhappiness, and I am hesitant to tell her for two reasons... 1. In counselling she didn't really hear how her behaviors upset me and I suspect it will be far more impactful if she figures it out on her own than if I just tell her, and 2. I don't want to make it too easy for her. I guess I feel like I've done the work, and a reconciliation doesn't really have much chance for success unless she does some of her own. I have given her some guidance and hints.
So it's been a few weeks. and not much has happened. We saw each other to talk a few weeks ago, and I asked how a new relationship would be different, and she didn't have much of an answer. I suggested she spend some time thinking about her failures in our relationship, and her response was very uninsightful, "I should have given you sex more often and reacted better to things you said and did."
We haven't seen each other for two weeks. It wouldn't have been easy to get together as our schedules just didn't synch up, and she was sick for a few days, but I'm kind of wondering how committed she is if she can't find time to get together, especially since not being a priority for her is one of my issues. I really pressured her to spend time together in our marriage, so one of my 180s is not to push her to get together. But two weeks?
Anyway, I'm taking my time, trying to give her an opportunity to understand my needs and commit to meeting them, but am not sure she can or will. And that's ok. If she can't, I can move on and be satisfied. My only real concern at this point is how long do I give her before I give up on her? That part I haven't figured out yet.
I am back to seeing our marriage counsellor. W doesn't want to go. I can understand why, because I viewed counselling as a "safe space" and said some things that hurt her badly there, but I am not sure we will get through this without some more counselling. I guess I just don't feel secure enough that she won't misinterpret some of the things I say (she had a history of reacting "disproportionately" (counsellor's word, not mine)) to talk openly and honestly about them without the counsellor's intercession..
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Actions matter over words. If you aren't seeing any action on her part over a period of time, then you can make a decision. How much time? That's entirely your call. I know this is ambiguous and not reassuring, but isn't this whole process like that?
My question is this - what do you need concretely from her to believe that she is committed to a process of reconciliation? Whether it's going to be successful or not is another story, but that is of irrelevance right now.
Once you have that figured out, then you can truly say whether or not enough time has passed for you to make a decision.
My question is this - what do you need concretely from her to believe that she is committed to a process of reconciliation? Whether it's going to be successful or not is another story, but that is of irrelevance right now.
I guess I need to see her grasp how she failed to meet my needs, apologize for failing to meet my needs, and do a better job of meeting my needs. And my needs are pretty simple. I need to be a priority in her life, not the last thing on her plate when she's taken care of everyone and everything else, And I need to be treated with respect. That encompasses a lot that I don't need to get into.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
From your previous post, it sounds like you've already communicated that to her, correct? So, now you can only see from her actions whether or not she can meet you where you need her to be.
I've been thinking about actions over words a lot lately - seems like the gold standard. I get it and I agree with it, but I think that there's some nuance to it. I examined my own ways in which I would say something but not follow through or my actions didn't communicate what my words were expressing.
I realized that many times I said something or agreed to something is because of NGS and I didn't want to let someone down or I was trying to please them. But internally, it didn't jive with me and I didn't say no or express my true feelings because I didn't want to create conflict. I also realized that I was doing that through instinct and learned behavior, and not with the recognition that my words were a way to cope with my insecurities.
So, now I am much more aware of what I am doing and saying and I don't say something to not follow through with it. Even little things that I agree to, I make sure I do them. Sometimes it was also just laziness or forgetfulness on my part, which I needed to rectify.
All in all, what I am saying is that I wonder if your W's inaction is a symptom of larger issues, rather than her not wanting to make you a priority. She already said she wants to reconcile etc, but she's not following through.
I am also wondering if her desire to reconcile is coming from a place of desperation rather than genuine reflection on what her contributions to the deterioration of the marriage. If as you say that she hasn't gone through that process herself, I would put her desire to reconcile in the 'suspect' pile because she truly doesn't know what she needs to do for herself to be a better partner. An offhand comment about more sex is just a quick response rather than thinking about dynamics of intimacy in your marriage.
Maybe I am blowing this out of proportion as I tend to sometimes overthink things. But, I think that you waiting around is just going to be a period of anxiety and anguish as she takes time to figure herself out.
I think it's admirable for you to try to reconcile with her after all that you've gone through. I personally at this point can understand it, but it's hard for me to now relate to considering where I am in my journey. I just could never go back. But that's just a side editorial and me projecting my feelings, so don't let it carry any weight.
Hey Jim, wow what a roller coaster it still is! So the D is still moving forward? Your W said she wants to reconcile, but she doesn't want to stop the D? And she refuses to go to MC? That's confusing. So is the fact that she isn't making any time for you. Like Maika said, you can tell more from actions than words, and it certainly sounds like her actions do not align with her words. I think if I were you I would put zero effort into her, just go about your life. Go NC on her. If she reaches out then explain to her that she needs to SHOW you she wants recon, not TELL you. And until you see ACTIONS there's nothing to discuss. She's got to to the work or this will never get off the ground.
From your previous post, it sounds like you've already communicated that to her, correct? So, now you can only see from her actions whether or not she can meet you where you need her to be.
I've been thinking about actions over words a lot lately - seems like the gold standard. . . . I am also wondering if her desire to reconcile is coming from a place of desperation rather than genuine reflection on what her contributions to the deterioration of the marriage. If as you say that she hasn't gone through that process herself, I would put her desire to reconcile in the 'suspect' pile because she truly doesn't know what she needs to do for herself to be a better partner. An offhand comment about more sex is just a quick response rather than thinking about dynamics of intimacy in your marriage.
In years of MC I told her what I wanted, and needed out of our relationship, but she was as close minded as I was. That's why it was far more impactful for me when I figured out where I failed, and I'd like for her to look back and figure it out so it has the same impact. I have not communicated my needs since we stopped going to MC years ago.
Action over words..... boy, that's a big one. She talks a really good game, but frankly, is a little wanting when it comes time for action. And I appreciate that it's something I need to watch out for. Thanks for the reminder.
I think you're exactly right about her desire to reconcile coming from a place of desperation. I don't think she's thought much on what her contributions were to the deterioration of the marriage, and my desire to have her spend some time thinking about it is an attempt to get her do reflect on just that.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Hey Jim, wow what a roller coaster it still is! So the D is still moving forward? Your W said she wants to reconcile, but she doesn't want to stop the D? And she refuses to go to MC? That's confusing. So is the fact that she isn't making any time for you. Like Maika said, you can tell more from actions than words, and it certainly sounds like her actions do not align with her words. I think if I were you I would put zero effort into her, just go about your life. Go NC on her. If she reaches out then explain to her that she needs to SHOW you she wants recon, not TELL you. And until you see ACTIONS there's nothing to discuss. She's got to to the work or this will never get off the ground.
We are literally maybe a week away from finishing the divorce after three years. At her suggestion, we are not stopping the process. I didn't bring it up, but I don't want to stop the process either. It's just a piece of paper after all.
We're at a crossroads of sorts. I want to go to MC because she took some things I said out of context and it took the MC to get her to understand what I was trying to say, and she doesn't because I did say some things there that were very hurtful to her. It's something we're going to have to figure out.
I'm already putting zero effort into this, for all the reasons you mentioned. I sent her a text last night asking if she was around this weekend, because I wanted to go see my parents, and wanted to make sure she'd be around for D17. She said "haha. And I thought you were going to ask if I could get together with you this weekend since we haven't talked in a while." I replied with "I am not going to put any pressure on you to get together. I am sure when you are up to it you will reach out." One of my 180's is to not pressure her into spending time with me, and I think my text made clear that if she wanted it to happen, she needed to make it happen.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I don't really know. She still hasn't asked to get together. The closest she's come was to say "we should get together when you return from XXXX" I said "I'd like that". She knows my schedule, so I figured if she wants to get together, she'll suggest a time and place. I'm just going about my life, and putting no pressure on her. When we do get together, I intend for us to have a talk about her actions not backing up her words, and until they do, there's not much else to discuss.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I'm already putting zero effort into this, for all the reasons you mentioned. I sent her a text last night asking if she was around this weekend, because I wanted to go see my parents, and wanted to make sure she'd be around for D17. She said "haha. And I thought you were going to ask if I could get together with you this weekend since we haven't talked in a while." I replied with "I am not going to put any pressure on you to get together. I am sure when you are up to it you will reach out." One of my 180's is to not pressure her into spending time with me, and I think my text made clear that if she wanted it to happen, she needed to make it happen.
I would have responded lol. Please stop talking to her. She's made it clear she's not interested.
I don't really know. She still hasn't asked to get together. The closest she's come was to say "we should get together when you return from XXXX" I said "I'd like that". She knows my schedule, so I figured if she wants to get together, she'll suggest a time and place. I'm just going about my life, and putting no pressure on her. When we do get together, I intend for us to have a talk about her actions not backing up her words, and until they do, there's not much else to discuss.
Sounds like a great plan! How's everything else going?
Sounds like a great plan! How's everything else going?
Life's going pretty well. I went up to my folk's cabin this weekend, played golf with dad (he still beats me. sigh), helped out with my mom (bad back), and generally chilled. The kids are doing well. D17 and I are in a good place. I'm helping her with college apps, and arranging and taking her on college visits. That means a lot of time together in the car, which is wonderful. I don't allow them to use their cellphones (I'm not their chauffeur.), so we have wonderful talks. Had nice phone calls with S19, and he and I are really good. Classes started last week, and I was going to pop by tomorrow, see his new apartment, and take him to lunch tomorrow, but work assigned him a shift so it's not worth my going. I'm baking brownies that I'll send him instead.
Had a discussion regarding who pays the taxes on an asset we sold last year with STBXW last week. We disagreed, but it was very civil. (The settlement agreement is totally on my side here.) I missed an opportunity to validate and say "I'm confident you can handle this," but I totally kept my cool and only very respectfully disagreed. We agreed to think about it some more and get back together. We filed for tax return extensions, so this issue has to be resolved by Oct 15, or really, earlier, so her tax guy can finish her taxes by then.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
The tax issue has been solved. I ran some numbers showing her different ways of doing it, and basically, doing things her way resulted in her owing me about 10 grand, so we are going with my way. I'll send my taxes in this evening.
After our discussion, she left the country for a few weeks to take care of her mom, so I sent an email basically saying I didn't feel like I was very important to her. We are supposed to be reconciling, but she hadn't asked me to get together in the 8 weeks we've been "reconciling" except to talk about the taxes. I mentioned some other issues that she brought up during our tax conversation, and said that it seems the only reason she wanted to reconcile was money.
Her reply focused almost entirely on the other issues. I emailed back and told her that I should have left the other issues out because the main point, that I didn't feel important to her, seemed to have been missed. I said she talks a good game, but her actions haven't backed up her words. I said I thought I might be wasting my time hoping for something that's never going to happen. She hasn't replied.
The good news is, I'm good. My taxes are done, and if she doesn't start acting like I'm important to her as soon as she gets home, I'm good with moving on. This will also solve the marriage counselling question, too, because if she acts like I'm important to her, we won't need to go, and if she doesn't, we won't need to go then, either.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Sat down yesterday afternoon with STBXW at an outdoor cafe and had a nice chat for a few hours. Of course we discussed the emails I sent her about not feeling important to her. Overall it was a nice conversation. Even the discussion about the emails was pleasant and nonconfrontational. She expressed fear that my emails indicated I was reverting to pre DB behavior. I validated, let her know that guy was gone forever, thanked her for leaving me so I could learn how pathetic he was, and asked her to let me know if she thought he was returning. I also very plainly and very clearly let her know that her actions didn't back up her words, and if she expected me to want to reconcile, that needed to change. When my parking meter expired, I politely told her I was driving up to the cabin for the night, had to get on the road, and left.
We still intend to get divorced. At this point it's just a piece of paper and it can be easily changed. All we're waiting on is for my retirement fund to be divided per the QDRO, which was projected to have been finished last week (don't know what the holdup was and don't really care), and then the final dissolution of marriage paperwork, which should take another week or two.
I feel great. Nice night at the cabin. Got the work done that needed doing, and if she wants to do the work, great. And if not, that's great, too.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
update... a lot of this will probably retell some older posts of mine.
In my last update, I said we sat down and I explained I just didn't feel important to her, and in previous posts, we all discussed the importance of action over words
STBXW has been gone much of the time since then. She spent a little over a week in England getting her mother's flat cleaned out and ready to be rented, and then two weeks on vacation with her sister. In between then and now, the only times I saw her were when we bumped into each other at a school function for D18, at a Halloween party we both attended, and lastly at dinner for D18s birthday. Not a phone call the entire 5 weeks, hardly any texts that weren't logistical in nature regarding the kids, and certainly no mention of getting together when she was home.
When we saw each other at the beginning of October, one of the things discussed was my chasing her for attention during our marriage, and chasing her right out the door. I told her I've learned my lesson, and I'm not chasing her anymore. And I haven't. I asked her to get together two or three times in the first few weeks of our "reconciliation", but when she said she couldn't, I haven't asked since.
Actions over words, not feeling important to her, not a priority for her. All things that were issues in our marriage.
Anyway, two weeks ago, when she was on vacation, I sent her an email that said, "I think it’s important when you get back that we sit down and talk about your expectations for us, because frankly, I’m a little disappointed in how things are going." She said, "we'll talk when I get home." She had been home a week, and I hadn't heard anything from her that wasn't about the kids.
So two days ago, I sent her this: "I was hoping my email to you in Tenerife would prompt some change, but it hasn’t. I wanted to talk to you about this in person, and I’ve been waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, so here it is in an email. I’d be happy to talk to you about it at length, but this “reconciliation” just isn’t working for me. I feel like 1) I’m just not that important to you, and 2) We just don’t want the same kind of marriage. I feel I am facing a lifetime of disappointment if we stay together because I feel my needs will never be met. I bear you no ill will, and want nothing but good things for you. I’d still like for you to join us for Thanksgiving if you wish." She replied immediately and suggested we get together for lunch to discuss it.
We had a long lunch. Very friendly, open, honest. A discussion of my need to feel important to her, her lack of actions over words. It was a long discussion, wide ranging. Her feelings, my feelings. In the end, she was clear that she wants a different kind of relationship than I do She said she just can't provide what I want, and as I walked her to her car, summed things up by saying "So, I guess that's it, then?" and she said "I guess we just want different things. You don't seem terribly upset". I assured her I wasn't upset at all, and we got in our cars and drove away.
I thought about it in the car, and sent her this text when I got home. "... the "relationship" you want is no real relationship at all. I am sorry for hurting you over the years so badly you won't try for a real relationship with me. I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad." I've received no response. Upon further reflection, I don't know if she's capable of making someone else a priority, and in my mind, that's probably THE most important thing in a marriage, or any kind of relationship.
The only two things I wish had gone differently in our talk was I wish I had focused more on the importance of making your partner a priority in a relationship, and calling her out on her excuses about not being capable of putting more effort into the relationship, but it doesn't matter.
So, what now? I don't know. I have a significant long term home repair project going on and almost finished (yea! only another month or so! yea!). I've been talking to my ex GF (that I broke up with to explore this reconciliation) about this repair project (she works in insurance and has been a HUGE help in trying to get some help there), and some help she needs that directly relates to my area of expertise. I miss her, and my first reaction was, man, I gotta call her and see if we can get back together. My second reaction was, "is that fair to her"? I can't have my first choice, so should I just ask my second choice if she's still available? That seems kind of $hitty. My third is, do I really want to get back together? Obviously, I wasn't so enthralled that I wasn't willing to throw her over in favor of my STBX. But then again, the idea of dating isn't appealing, and I enjoy her company.
So...... I've got a lot of good things happening, and lots of options.
I'll figure it out.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Sorry to hear about the latest developments, Jim. Although this wasn’t what you wanted, you know you’re going to be just fine. Your wife is definitely exhibiting some avoidant tendencies by being so wishy washy and unreliable. Not much you can do about that except to continue to detach and let her go, which you seem to being to doing already.
Thanks Thornton. I think my biggest problem is that intellectually, I know I'll be ok, and I'll figure it out, but emotionally, I just can't seem to cut that last thread of attachment and move on. And I hate to admit it, and I know I deserve some 2X4s, but I worry that if she came to me a week/year/whatever from now and said she really wanted to commit, I'd give her another chance, even knowing it was unlikely to succeed..
Oh well. Time heals all wounds.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
We had a long lunch. Very friendly, open, honest. A discussion of my need to feel important to her, her lack of actions over words. It was a long discussion, wide ranging. Her feelings, my feelings. In the end, she was clear that she wants a different kind of relationship than I do She said she just can't provide what I want, and as I walked her to her car, summed things up by saying "So, I guess that's it, then?" and she said "I guess we just want different things. You don't seem terribly upset". I assured her I wasn't upset at all, and we got in our cars and drove away.
I thought about it in the car, and sent her this text when I got home. "... the "relationship" you want is no real relationship at all. I am sorry for hurting you over the years so badly you won't try for a real relationship with me. I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad." I've received no response. Upon further reflection, I don't know if she's capable of making someone else a priority, and in my mind, that's probably THE most important thing in a marriage, or any kind of relationship.
Hey Jim, first I'll say that your recon never has really gotten off the ground, it really didn't seem like your W was ever "all in" on it. I don't blame you at all for the talk, and for stating how you felt about it. But I think you took it too far with that text- "I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad". You don't know what she's thinking or feeling, and to say something like that just comes off sounding vindictive and a little petty. If you're going to end things then try and leave it on a positive note. Wish her the best, and hope that she goes on to a great life without you! Everyone deserves to be happy, even our exes.
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The only two things I wish had gone differently in our talk was I wish I had focused more on the importance of making your partner a priority in a relationship, and calling her out on her excuses about not being capable of putting more effort into the relationship, but it doesn't matter.
Well you're right, it doesn't matter. She's not listening to you for whatever reason. Focus on actions, not words.
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So, what now? I don't know. I have a significant long term home repair project going on and almost finished (yea! only another month or so! yea!). I've been talking to my ex GF (that I broke up with to explore this reconciliation) about this repair project (she works in insurance and has been a HUGE help in trying to get some help there), and some help she needs that directly relates to my area of expertise. I miss her, and my first reaction was, man, I gotta call her and see if we can get back together. My second reaction was, "is that fair to her"? I can't have my first choice, so should I just ask my second choice if she's still available? That seems kind of $hitty. My third is, do I really want to get back together? Obviously, I wasn't so enthralled that I wasn't willing to throw her over in favor of my STBX. But then again, the idea of dating isn't appealing, and I enjoy her company.
Now what you do is give yourself some time. Time without W, time without GF. Just Jim time. Pour yourself into finishing that project and whatever other GAL stuff you have going. Pick up some new GAL activities! Enjoy yourself, don't sweat an R for now. With time your path ahead will become clearer.
Jim, just read your last update. First a 2x4: You still came across as too needy. I am glad you didn't "The only two things I wish had gone differently in our talk was I wish I had focused more on the importance of making your partner a priority in a relationship, and calling her out on her excuses about not being capable of putting more effort into the relationship, but it doesn't matter." Those would have been mistakes. She would see what you were doing "I NEED more!, Please give it to me so we can reconcile!" See how needy that comes across?
I also wish you hadn't reached out to her. At all. I feel like all of that was a test. Remember, people want what they don't have. When did she want you? When you were with your GF. As soon as you jettisoned the GF and you were "available" she went ice-cold. Let that be a serious lesson for you. I feel all of this was one giant, "I should see if I could get him back!" temp-check. Trust me, I've been through it with my ex-GF. It feels like crap because it is a crappy thing for someone to do to another person. It toys with their emotions and their life. Do you really want to be with someone capable of that?
Other than that I think you handled it well. The "You don't seem that upset" was a key indicator that you did well.
As far as the ex-GF, maybe it isn't meant to be. Maybe it is. Maybe asking her out and just laying everything out on the table would let you know if there is a possibility of getting back together. You weren't married to her, so it isn't like you made a long-term commitment to her, and then broke it to explore you reconciliation with your STBXW. Or you start dating others again. The world is your oyster.
I will warn you, if you get back into a R with someone new (or the ex-GF) your STBXW may very well come calling again. And even harder this time. Treat it extremely skeptically. Someone like her is capable of the emotion and life toying because, quite frankly, she's already done it!! True colors my friend.
Sorry man, but look at it this way, nothing was gained but nothing was lost in all of this.
(BRO HUGS)
Last edited by Steve85; 11/19/1905:38 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey Jim, first I'll say that your recon never has really gotten off the ground, it really didn't seem like your W was ever "all in" on it. I don't blame you at all for the talk, and for stating how you felt about it. But I think you took it too far with that text- "I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad". You don't know what she's thinking or feeling, and to say something like that just comes off sounding vindictive and a little petty. If you're going to end things then try and leave it on a positive note. Wish her the best, and hope that she goes on to a great life without you!
That's good advice, and I appreciate it.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Now what you do is give yourself some time. Time without W, time without GF. Just Jim time. Pour yourself into finishing that project and whatever other GAL stuff you have going. Pick up some new GAL activities! Enjoy yourself, don't sweat an R for now. With time your path ahead will become clearer.
LOL I don't know if I could fit in any more GAL! This home repair has required me to be home most of the last two weeks and it's been fun. I actually caught up on a tv show that I was months behind on, and played some on the xbox. It's been really nice to slow down for a bit.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Hi Jim. FWIW I very much agree with Steve. Sounds like you were in NC for awhile but then broke down and reached out to her numerous times. I would not have sent the initial text. When she responded to your initial text by suggesting a talk when she returned from vacation but then she did not contact you after being back for a week, I would not have texted her, and certainly not texted "I have been waiting and waiting and waiting..." The text after your final face-to-face was also unnecessary.
Your actions = pursuit and neediness. I would stop all the texts and R talks and leave her be. I would also not contact your ex-GF right now. Give yourself some time to settle down and clear your head. Hang in there.
LOL I don't know if I could fit in any more GAL! This home repair has required me to be home most of the last two weeks and it's been fun. I actually caught up on a tv show that I was months behind on, and played some on the xbox. It's been really nice to slow down for a bit.
That's great! Too much GAL is just right You're clearly in a much better place now then when you got BD'd, glad to see you taking this in stride and continuing to be your awesome self!
Jim, just read your last update. First a 2x4: You still came across as too needy......."I NEED more!, Please give it to me so we can reconcile!" See how needy that comes across?
I also wish you hadn't reached out to her. At all. I feel like all of that was a test. Remember, people want what they don't have. When did she want you? When you were with your GF. As soon as you jettisoned the GF and you were "available" she went ice-cold. Let that be a serious lesson for you. I feel all of this was one giant, "I should see if I could get him back!" temp-check. Trust me, I've been through it with my ex-GF. It feels like crap because it is a crappy thing for someone to do to another person. It toys with their emotions and their life. Do you really want to be with someone capable of that?
As far as the ex-GF, maybe it isn't meant to be. Maybe it is. Maybe asking her out and just laying everything out on the table would let you know if there is a possibility of getting back together.
I will warn you, if you get back into a R with someone new (or the ex-GF) your STBXW may very well come calling again. And even harder this time. Treat it extremely skeptically. Someone like her is capable of the emotion and life toying because, quite frankly, she's already done it!! True colors my friend. (BRO HUGS)
Steve, I'll talk about the "neediness" below....
But I think you're right about temp checking, her come calling even harder next time, and true colors. More on that below.
Originally Posted by Gekko
Hi Jim. FWIW I very much agree with Steve. Sounds like you were in NC for awhile but then broke down and reached out to her numerous times. I would not have sent the initial text. When she responded to your initial text by suggesting a talk when she returned from vacation but then she did not contact you after being back for a week, I would not have texted her, and certainly not texted "I have been waiting and waiting and waiting..." The text after your final face-to-face was also unnecessary.
Your actions = pursuit and neediness. I would stop all the texts and R talks and leave her be. I would also not contact your ex-GF right now. Give yourself some time to settle down and clear your head. Hang in there.
LOL, well, I doubled down on the text with an email...
The difference between me and almost everyone else on here is I am not trying to save my marriage any more. The initial text was really a break up text. I would have reconsidered if she said she would actually start putting some effort into it. AnotherStander nailed it when he said the reconciliation never really took off because she put almost no effort into it over three months. It would have been nice, but we want different things. I understand it's never going to work, and if I want to be in a fulfilling relationship, I need to look elsewhere.
It's pretty liberating because the things I said in the follow up email to the text I wouldn't have said if we were still working on a reconciliation, and I feel great having said them. Nothing rancorous, but I've wanted to say them for a long time.
Steve and Gekko, as far as the neediness goes, I hear you. To her, I'm sure I came across as pathetic and needy. As far as I'm concerned, I simply stated that her idea of sufficient time together (almost none) wasn't acceptable to me and goodbye and good luck.
What she said: “What I had hoped for was that we could have some kind of relationship that would include spending quality time together but having independence from each other too.”
What I said: Believe me, I had hoped for the same thing. But what “quality” time did we spend together in the three months since you asked for a reconciliation? An hour and half at <restaurant>? The rest of it was lunch with the kids, or bumping into each other at a party. And then you wonder why I want more.......
(as an aside, the "hour and a half" I mentioned in the previous paragraph was after we saw each other ONCE in the first month and a half of "reconciling", and that first time was so she could bitch at me to pay her taxes, and other financial issues. See previous updates if interested, but it's not important.)
She said: "I've had so many long conversations with women who feel like they're in the same boat as I was with you. I've also had long talks with women who have what they consider a happy relationship with their spouse or partner where sex is off the table all, or almost all, of the time. They respect each others time alone. Many see very little of their spouse and find it works better."
I said: "Oh, and these women you’ve talked to? I’m glad they’re happy. How many are going to be devastated when their husbands leave them for someone who satisfies their emotional needs? (“OMG he was having an affair for YEARS! Can you believe it?!?!?” She screeches. “Duh,” I reply.) In the meantime they are missing out on the love, emotional intimacy, closeness, joy, pleasure, etc. (I really wish I had a better emotional vocabulary right now) of the kind of relationship we used to have. Of the kind I would have liked to have with you again. They’re in no marriage I want any part of. "
Lastly, she gave a bunch of excuses for why she was too exhausted to spend time with me, and I called bull$hit on it and went into detail, i.e. "how hard is it to drive the one minute to my house and eat the dinner I've prepared, so you don't have to, and then flop on my couch to watch a movie together rather than watch it alone over there? Compared to travelling to <exotic and VERY difficult to reach vacation>? But you had no trouble doing that." And yes, that really pissed her off, and I don't care.
Anyway, this was much longer than I thought it would be. I don't know what I'm going to do.... take time to myself, call the ex GF, date someone else, whatever. But Steve, like you said, the world is my oyster, and I'm going to be great.
I'll figure it out!
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Good for you, Jim! I don’t know if I would have ever emailed my W and texted her, but I have to be honest. I bet that felt good to call her on her b”llshit and not care what kind of reaction she might have. That’s detached, my friend.
Now you can leave her alone to live her best life by finding her magical unicorn partner and hang out with her classy friends. Good luck W!
Jim, from my perspective what you did was: "I need all of this (insert list) for this reconciliation." I would have preferred you have approached it like: "This reconciliation isn't working for me. I need these things. I don't see that as part of this reconciliation so I am ending it."
That was what I was trying to get you to see. The first sounds more like begging for what you want. The second is saying "My needs are not being met so I am out of here."
I probably would have skipped the dinner. "The last 3 months have shown me all I needed to see. Having dinner one night isn't going to change that."
Anyway, again, I think overall you kept your composure and handled 75% of if it very well, as indicated by her noticing you were not upset.
Hang in there Jim, we are all pulling for you!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
She said: "I've had so many long conversations with women who feel like they're in the same boat as I was with you. I've also had long talks with women who have what they consider a happy relationship with their spouse or partner where sex is off the table all, or almost all, of the time. They respect each others time alone. Many see very little of their spouse and find it works better."
Definitely not the sort of partner I'd seek--no sex and a dinner together every few months---sorry it didn't work out better. I applaud your strength in seeking out what satisfies you!
Jim your XW sounds like a mess. She wants a "relationship" where she never sees you, doesn't have sex with you and barely talks/ texts with you. And she's surprised you're not on board with that? All I can say is ROTFLOL!!!!! Come on! Welcome to crazy town.
Jim, kudos to you for giving it a strong effort, and double kudos for recognizing this just ain't gonna work for you.
Thanks for your words of support, guys. It means a lot.
Steve, I probably should have just ended it without sending her the text, but I know the text didn't change anything either way, and I'm glad I said what I said. Kind of like getting the last word in, ya know? I appreciate your insight regarding "im outta here", v "this is what I need"
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
You're clearly in a much better place now then when you got BD'd, glad to see you taking this in stride and continuing to be your awesome self!