Persistent Endurance (Part 6)

[LH19]

C,

Explain to me exactly what those consequences are.

[ovrrnbw]

It sounds like your WW has your place and her own place. That has to be hard for you. She gets what she wants from you and throws away what she doesn't.

[IHCLACS]

This is just me talking, and I'm really in no position to be giving advise because I'm somewhere between being a hard @$$ wanting respect, and a softie privately because I miss the person that was once there known as my W. But if I even had suspicion of my woman cheating on me, and she had absolutely no legal claim to my property, didn't want to reconcile, didn't want to be my W anymore and she wanted out. I would have told her to GTFO my property until she gets right with God, her ways, and right with her Husband. Maybe prideful of me and gets me divorced, but I don't give a damn if they need space, wants to find themselves, moves away or worse, forces you to move, they can keep it. I may be an @$$hole who has made some bad mistakes in my M and I have to live forever with the guilt of not correcting it when I should have which led me to this, but my self respect cones first. They can stay or go. If they want to go, then they can keep walking. Don't let the door kick you in the @$$ on the way out.

[curtis7]

C,

Explain to me exactly what those consequences are.

Hmm...LH, now you’re trying to ruin my night making me think about this. Consequences are NC with me which is pissing her off and perhaps eventually her seeing the destruction of our family that she has caused. Unlikely though as she appears to be dead set on filing.

It sounds like your WW has your place and her own place. That has to be hard for you. She gets what she wants from you and throws away what she doesn't.

Ovr, I don’t see a way around it unless I file to obtain sole possession of the property. We are both on the deed. I’m not an animal hater to just open the gate and allow the horse to trot off. I know her well enough to appreciate that would be an unforgivable act in her mind. I recall you suggesting that I tell her to move it or I sell it off. To me that is vindictive and an attempt to punish her. She’s held me in contempt for a long time about the horse. Even prior to BD, so I’ve tried to 180 on that to be more accepting of her pride and joy. I get it, it is hard when I recognize how she is taking advantage of our success in life and me for only the small part that benefits her.

On a positive note, S8 and I are have a wonderful time at the football game. Big blowout in favor of the good guys.

[curtis7]

This is just me talking, and I'm really in no position to be giving advise because I'm somewhere between being a hard @$$ wanting respect, and a softie privately because I miss the person that was once there known as my W. But if I even had suspicion of my woman cheating on me, and she had absolutely no legal claim to my property, didn't want to reconcile, didn't want to be my W anymore and she wanted out. I would have told her to GTFO my property until she gets right with God, her ways, and right with her Husband. Maybe prideful of me and gets me divorced, but I don't give a damn if they need space, wants to find themselves, moves away or worse, forces you to move, they can keep it. I may be an @$$hole who has made some bad mistakes in my M and I have to live forever with the guilt of not correcting it when I should have which led me to this, but my self respect cones first. They can stay or go. If they want to go, then they can keep walking. Don't let the door kick you in the @$$ on the way out.

She does have legal claim to the property, but I know where you’re coming from. The cheating is definitely getting to me and prompting thoughts of being progressively mean to her. I’m trying very hard to suppress these thoughts because they shouldn’t be arising if I was more detached.

I’ve been reading HoosJim’s sitch a lot lately and that helped me discover Artista and her posts. Artista’s H basically told her that he thought she had a problem, she needed to get help, and that he couldn’t protect her any longer and needed to distance himself from her to protect himself. I feel like this is where I’m kind of at.

[LH19]

C,

You actually cost me sleep last night because I read your posts before bed and I couldn't fall asleep because it made me angry. I guess I need to detach from you lol. So you're worried that anything that happens to the horse would become unforgivable but her completely destroying your soul and your family is forgivable on your end. WTF???

So in your mind your NC for two days is going to make he see she is destroying her family and make her wake up? WTF????

Now after reading hoosjims thread which btw has zero in common with your sitch, you decide you need to distance yourself and protect yourself enem though we've been telling you this for seven months. WTF????

Look man I am really sorry you're going through this but I truly believe you will be better off without her. If she ever gets her $hit together you can revisit a recon in the future. IMO you need to take at minimum a year to work on yourself and realize that you have value and that you will never allow someone to disrespect you again in this manner.

Stay strong!

[curtis7]

If I was in a new relationship with her or someone else, then I wouldn’t expect that person to disclose everything about their past, lovers, escapades, etc. Sure, those may come up at some point, but full disclosure up front would not be a requirement to start a new relationship.

What?!

This is an example of your NGS and just how little respect you have for yourself. We've tried to tell you her viewpoint, based on what we've learned about the wayward W.....but that doesn't mean it was reality or that you should condone her wayward mentality.....nor, sweep it under the rug (should there be a new R). You will not have a new R with her if it's built on lies, deceit, and secrets. So, you think you would be in the wrong to expect her to be up front with you about her affairs? Man oh man! At what point do you think full disclosure would be a requirement to start a new relationship? IMHO, I would want full disclosure before I committed the second time around.

Sandi, point taken. If I’m understanding you correctly you’re saying the LBS can’t give a WW a pass that everything they’ve done was acceptable because they were wayward. In no way whatsoever do I condone her affairs and they can’t be swept under the rug. They need to be dealt with to my satisfaction once, then we need to move on. It’s not something I would want to bring up again later in the R and use against her. I certainly don’t want to be exposed to the intimate details as that paints a mental picture that is difficult to block out. I do want a relationship built on honesty and trust. That is essential based on all the pain I’ve experienced from the lies and deceit. So, you’ve convinced me that full disclosure on all of the affair partners is a must to demonstrate commitment to me as her only partner going forward.

Regarding NGS, much of mine developed after BD. Aside from covert contracts and trying to fix her problems, I really wasn’t a “nice guy” during our MR. I told her what I wanted and she usually went along with it. She became tired and resentful about feeling like she didn’t have a voice in the MR and that she wasn’t treated like an equal partner. My NGS since BD stems from trying to avoid D at all costs and holding the rope for so long. Knowing my S was involved in active PAs made me spin and it’s taken a long time to see and learn how to handle that type of sitch.

Not rehashing details about the past.

It's funny that you make this statement, b/c you are the one who is always wanting to have a R talk, or confront her. Maybe it wasn't to rehash the past, but you do a lot of talking about what you want. I get the feeling that you think telling her about this great new marriage would convince her to come back home. The only thing that will convince her to join you in making a new MR is for her to see you moving forward without her.

The best way I can think of to show I’m moving on without her is to file for D. Some days I feel that is absolutely, unequivocally the right thing to do. Then, other days I find myself still giving her the benefit of the doubt that she will wake up and see the damage she’s caused to me, our MR, and our family.

Now, I know that I can show her I’m moving forward without filing for D, but my patience has been progressively faltering. I feel similar to what Starsky described as there came a time to make a stand for holiness in the MR. Since she knows that I know she is still in an active PA, or at least in contact with the OM and lying to me about it, I just don’t feel like I can condone and tolerate it any longer. D will be horrible for my family, especially b/c I see how great of a future W and I can have if we were to R. I accept that will never happen unless she gives up the AP. It seems her stubbornness and feelings for him won’t allow her to end it right now and maybe ever. Ultimately it is her choice, but I also have the power to make a choice for myself and for what’s best for my kids.

I wanted us to be able to be vulnerable around each other

Stop right there, b/c I think you used this vulnerable word in past posts. Let's look that word up in the dictionary.
1) susceptible to physical or emotional attack or harm; 2) (of a person) in need of special care, support, or protection because of age, disability, or risk of abuse or neglect.

IMHO, women don't want a vulnerable man for her husband. She wants him to be the strong one, not the vulnerable one in the relationship. Maybe that is something you need to examine about the past. It's the woman who looks to her H for protection and leadership. Perhaps she didn't get that vibe from you, b/c you showed weakness and she couldn't lean on your strength.

I’ve thought about some of my responsibilities in the MR as a H often and concluded that it is my role to protect our MR and protect our family from harm and predators. Now the question is how do I act to accomplish that objective. I was in such a daze early on after BD that I didn’t know which way was up. Also, my WW was so resentful of me that any efforts along this front would have likely sent her running even faster in the opposite direction. However, now things have calmed down and I do not believe that she still sees me as the root cause for all of her unhappiness. Still, I’m not sure how to be a protector beyond stating it with words alone. It’s not advised to confront the OM and removing myself from her life doesn’t really allow me to provide protection. I can just be a great father to my kids while they are with me, lovingly detach and leave her to figure out her own mess while she is wayward.

and feel safe that we are not judging but rather supportive and understanding.

If I was the WW and heard you present this talk, I would immediately recognize you speaking for both of us. You are trying to paint the glowing picture of a perfect relationship, hoping to lasso her and pull her back. It is heavy pursuing words, even if you think you are simply describing what "you" want.

I don’t have much of a rebuttal here. She basically expressed her concern about people at Retrouvaille judging her in this manner and I know it is a soft spot. However despicable her actions and choices have been, they are based on her feelings at the time and I should respect that as I had no control over them. I feel that if she were to open up to me with real honesty and insight into the why’s, then I will need to be safe to approach in her eyes.

I’m conflicted between confronting her and moving forward with D, giving her the choice to commit or initiate D, or continue NC.

See? There you go again, wanting to confront (talk) and giving her the choice to commit or initiate D. How many times will it take telling you this plan doesn't work, before you accept that it really doesn't work? You don't tell a WW to commit or initiate D. She has already proven she doesn't want to commit, and she's not initiating D b/c she benefits from being Mrs. Curtis.

I am hearing you Sandi, it’s not how many times everyone telling me that talking doesn’t work. It’s when do I feel like I’ve done all I can, when will I have no regrets that I did what I could to save the MR, when will I stand up for what I believe in and what I will tolerate from my S. When will I finally let her go and cut off all benefits she receives from having me as her H. Those are some of the most challenging questions to answer for the LBS and timing to act upon them is also key.

[MrBrside]

When will I finally let her go and cut off all benefits she receives from having me as her H. Those are some of the most challenging questions to answer for the LBS and timing to act upon them is also key.

If you had followed advice, it would have been 6 months ago.. Bye bye Mr Horse. Hello GAL

[curtis7]

You actually cost me sleep last night because I read your posts before bed and I couldn't fall asleep because it made me angry. I guess I need to detach from you lol. So you're worried that anything that happens to the horse would become unforgivable but her completely destroying your soul and your family is forgivable on your end. WTF???

LH, please don’t lose sleep over me. You have better and more exciting things to think about at night. Yes, detach, don’t let what I post affect your emotions. I’m replying in the morning so you can be angry all day.

On some level, I feel that horse is more important to her than most human beings. It is her pride and joy. However, I still believe family and kids are first in her life.

Now after reading hoosjims thread which btw has zero in common with your sitch, you decide you need to distance yourself and protect yourself even though we've been telling you this for seven months. WTF????

What can I say...I guess I’m slow? In some regards I’m as stubborn as her and stuck in my ways of doing what doesn’t work. Yes, I was in a fog too and didn’t want to see reality for what it was in that my MR was over and she had no intentions of coming back.

Ok, so my sitch is not like hoosjim’s and you previously informed me that it was not like P_Jam’s. While each sitch is unique and has its own quirks, many of them are similar and follow a repeatable storyline. So, dare I ask which sitches does mine have the most in common with? I hope they don’t all end in D with never a hint of R. Please find me one as bad as mine that successfully R.

Look man I am really sorry you're going through this but I truly believe you will be better off without her. If she ever gets her $hit together you can revisit a recon in the future. IMO you need to take at minimum a year to work on yourself and realize that you have value and that you will never allow someone to disrespect you again in this manner.

LH, I truly respect your opinion and can’t blame you for making this recommendation when you step back and logically evaluate my sitch and all that has gone down. I know my value and I have allowed her to disrespect me over and over again. Isn’t that to be expected to some extent when the LBH makes a decision to stand, remain married, and give the WW time and space?

This is one of the biggest decisions of my life and it’s bigger than me. It will have a lasting affect on me, her, my kids, family, and friends. Those are some of the considerations and factors I’m battling internally. Respect versus hope for what could be.

[curtis7]

If you had followed advice, it would have been 6 months ago.. Bye bye Mr Horse. Hello GAL

Yes, when I joined the forum and I most likely would have been D by now. I wouldn’t have had to endure all the pain and suffering of knowing my W was cheating with several OM. On the flip side, I would have felt like I was the quitter. I allowed myself to be disrespected for what I saw as the greater prize of restoring my MR and keeping my family together. I truly feel giving it all you can for as long as you can is justified when you choose to love your S and especially when young kids are involved.