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#2862734 08/25/19 04:53 PM
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W came by this morning to pick up our S2 for the day. We ended up chatting for awhile, started with her asking about the separation agreement.

W: I just don't see how either of us can afford to live on our own in our current places (she's worried she'll be making far less than she was last year).
Me: Yes, I see that it would be more difficult.

I then made the mistake of suggesting we could actually work on our marriage and see if we can turn this back around.

W: We shouldn't be doing it for financial reasons though.
Me: I completely agree. For me there are other reasons if you're interested in hearing them.
W: (sits down) Sure what are the reasons?
Me: We have a child together. And most importantly I think we've been going through the toughest stage in our relationship and we werent equipped with the knowledge of how to handle it. I think we can get back there if we both choose to want that.
W: I see that but I'm not sure if you were ever passionate about me.
Me: I can assure you I was but didn't really know how to express myself, especially as I felt you pulling away. I just thought we'd get through it. I can't go back in time but I understand how that made you feel.
W: I felt like you were judging me and I couldn't be myself (starts getting teary) and I don't want that for the rest of my life.
Me: I see I made you feel bad. I agree that I've been too judgmental in the past and I didn't realize how that affected you. I certainly don't want you to feel that way either and I think I've made improvements in that area and I want to love and accept you for who you are, warts and all. I'm sorry I made you feel that way.

She also said there hasn't been any EA or PA's but she admitted that she was liking the attention she was getting from other men (mostly even from her work friends) and it made her feel appreciated and special. I again said I was sorry that I didn't do enough to make her feel that way. Having a baby and dealing with her dad's illness maybe got in the way of us connecting like we used to.

We kind of left it at that so we will see if she thinks about this further...I don't think she will at this point so I'm not getting my hopes up.

But I took the following from the conversation:
1) She's maybe not as finished as I thought she was but it's still looking bleak.
2) The root of the problem was her not feeling special, loved, and accepted. Combined with everything going on around us and in our lives she felt trapped in her current situation.

Moving forward:

1) No expectations but I'll continue to detach with love.
2) I'll invite her out to the odd family outing. She can choose whether to accept or not. (I did this last week, just invited her to the park with us, and although she said she was stuck at work she said: "thanks for thinking of me, have fun, heart).
3) I will do the odd thing that makes her feel special and loved (unless you guys say that's a bad idea). Im not going over the top but even just something little here and there to let her know I'm trying to make her life easier and more enjoyable.
4) I will continue to move forward with the S agreement as really nothing has changed in the situation and she needs to start helping out.

As always, I appreciate any thoughts.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2862863 08/26/19 05:42 PM
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Last post:

W came by this morning to pick up our S2 for the day. We ended up chatting for awhile, started with her asking about the separation agreement.

W: I just don't see how either of us can afford to live on our own in our current places (she's worried she'll be making far less than she was last year).
Me: Yes, I see that it would be more difficult.

I then made the mistake of suggesting we could actually work on our marriage and see if we can turn this back around.

W: We shouldn't be doing it for financial reasons though.
Me: I completely agree. For me there are other reasons if you're interested in hearing them.
W: (sits down) Sure what are the reasons?
Me: We have a child together. And most importantly I think we've been going through the toughest stage in our relationship and we werent equipped with the knowledge of how to handle it. I think we can get back there if we both choose to want that.
W: I see that but I'm not sure if you were ever passionate about me.
Me: I can assure you I was but didn't really know how to express myself, especially as I felt you pulling away. I just thought we'd get through it. I can't go back in time but I understand how that made you feel.
W: I felt like you were judging me and I couldn't be myself (starts getting teary) and I don't want that for the rest of my life.
Me: I see I made you feel bad. I agree that I've been too judgmental in the past and I didn't realize how that affected you. I certainly don't want you to feel that way either and I think I've made improvements in that area and I want to love and accept you for who you are. I'm sorry I made you feel that way.

She also said there hasn't been any EA or PA's but she admitted that she was liking the attention she was getting from other men (mostly even from her work friends) and it made her feel appreciated and special. I again said I was sorry that I didn't do enough to make her feel that way. Having a baby and dealing with her dad's illness maybe got in the way of us connecting like we used to.

We kind of left it at that so we will see if she thinks about this further...I don't think she will at this point so I'm not getting my hopes up.

But I took the following from the conversation:
1) She's maybe not as finished as I thought she was but it's still looking bleak.
2) The root of the problem was her not feeling special, loved, and accepted. Combined with everything going on around us and in our lives she felt trapped in her current situation.

Moving forward:

1) No expectations but I'll continue to detach with love.
2) I'll invite her out to the odd family outing. She can choose whether to accept or not. (I did this last week, just invited her to the park with us, and although she said she was stuck at work she said: "thanks for thinking of me, have fun, heart).
3) I will do the odd thing that makes her feel special and loved (unless you guys say that's a bad idea). Im not going over the top but even just something little here and there to let her know I'm trying to make her life easier and more enjoyable.
4) I will continue to move forward with the S agreement as really nothing has changed in the situation and she needs to start helping out.

As always, I appreciate any thoughts.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2862876 08/26/19 07:06 PM
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Quote
As always, I appreciate any thoughts.


My2Cents:

Much less talking from you and more listening to understand how she FEELS. Read the validation thread again.



W: We shouldn't be doing it for financial reasons though.
Me: I completely agree. For me there are other reasons if you're interested in hearing them.



W: I see that but I'm not sure if you were ever passionate about me.
Me: I am sorry you feel that way.




W: I felt like you were judging me and I couldn't be myself (starts getting teary) and I don't want that for the rest of my life.
Me: I see I made you feel bad.I agree that I've been too judgmental in the past and I didn't realize how that affected you. I certainly don't want you to feel that way either and I think I've made improvements in that area and I want to love and accept you for who you are. I'm sorry I made you feel that way.





Go to a coffee shop, sit near two women talking. One will be talking and the other will be listening. Observe without getting caught..IE listen to them while staring at your phone. Learn this important skill.






"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Jac12 #2862880 08/26/19 07:15 PM
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Jac, you did a pretty good job of listening and validating but R2C's advice is spot on. It's very easy to slip into "fix-it" mode instead of continuing to just listen and validate.

Now you said what you wanted to say and she knows you're still Plan B, so just leave it alone. No more pressure. She'll approach you if she decides she's interested in discussing recon.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Jac12 #2862884 08/26/19 07:31 PM
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Thanks R2C, AS...I do appreciate the input.

Not "fixing" is what I find the most challenging. I always figure there must be a way to turn this around but I'm sensing that doing nothing (but validating and working on myself) is likely the best option. Even then, we may not make it back.

Last week I invited her to join me and S2 at the park. She couldn't make it but she seemed thankful that I asked and was thinking about her. Put a heart at the end. I'm debating between more manipulative behaviour or genuine thanks. I guess I need to not worry about either answer and just keep on. But I've read to continue doing what works so I invited this evening and she plans on coming.

Since there is no clear evidence of an A, should I ask her to join (on a limited basis) now and then? Or wait until she asks to join us?


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2862886 08/26/19 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by "W"
I felt like you were judging me and I couldn't be myself (starts getting teary) and I don't want that for the rest of my life.

It sounds like there's some hope. She used "I" statements instead of "You" statements and is trying to express her feelings, even if the "I" statements suggest the blame is yours.

Originally Posted by "Jaci"
Me: I see I made you feel bad. I agree that I've been too judgmental in the past and I didn't realize how that affected you. I certainly don't want you to feel that way either and I think I've made improvements in that area and I want to love and accept you for who you are. I'm sorry I made you feel that way.

I hear my old me. "Oh, the problem is X. I caused X. Let me fix X. I'm sorry for X!"

Today I'd be like, Me: "You felt like you couldn't be yourself?"
Her: <nods>
Me: That sounds hard.
Her: Yeah, it was..

I'd be curious when she started feeling that way, why she felt judged, what she wanted to do, and who she wanted to be. It feels good to be heard and understood. Sometimes that matters more than the fix.

Jac12 #2862890 08/26/19 07:57 PM
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Jac,

I think asking her to join on a limited bias, will be seen as pressure. Keep the pressure off. Keep doing what works. For now just keep shooting off the emails, and have no expectations on her response. Let her give you the ok, that she whats to up the visits.

When drop the having expectations, the feeling of fixing and controlling will subside. We are program to have an answer and way out. In this situation, the fastest way out, is being patient and not having answers or fixes. You need to worry about fixing/working on yourself.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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I'd be curious when she started feeling that way, why she felt judged, what she wanted to do, and who she wanted to be. It feels good to be heard and understood. Sometimes that matters more than the fix.


[/quote]

I think it started on a vacation we were on. We were talking about our pasts and she was fairly wild in high school. Nothing too crazy but got into some drugs (weed, ecstacy, hash). My past involves a father who was a cocaine addict (since recovered) and a brother who was stoned all the time and never really did anything with his life. So I've always wanted to be with someone who wasn't interested in that stuff because I didn't want to worry about it.

When she told me about the ecstasy I 100% made her feel bad for her past. Which was silly because she wasn't the same person anymore. I remember her saying that she felt like I didn't accept her because of that.

So I think it started there and it triggered little things like I think I was making her feel bad for not being active and taking care of herself. In my mind I was responding to what she said she wanted (better butt or legs) and trying to be supportive. I guess it came across in a different way. Bottom line is I can see her point and it's something I'm trying to be aware of as I don't want to be that person. I'm 100% accepting of my friends but for some reason I've struggled to be the same in my closest relationships.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2864125 09/05/19 02:39 AM
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Update:

My BIL stopped by the house while my W was looking after our son. He basically gave her crap for not being a good mom, and not working on the marriage, and a few other things. He's wanted to tell her his thoughts for awhile now so he wanted to get it off his chest. He's newly engaged and knows his sister very well. She's always on to the newest shiny thing. I guess he was hoping to wake her up a little bit - mostly because she's not fighting for time with our son. He called me after and told me the gist of it and said she was pretty upset when he left.

So when I got home we put our son to bed and I asked if she was okay because she looked a bit upset. She started crying and said "Ask BIL why I'm crying". I said I didn't understand and asked again what was wrong.

Well, it got into a long conversation about how everyone is against her and thinks she's a terrible mother and person. I validated as much as I could and said: "and that upsets you right?" she said "of course it does".

She said a lot of things and I also said some things but tried to speak as little (or at least less than I normally do) as possible. I did stay very calm and spoke clearly and directly.

I did mention that the people closest to her all think that she's had a lot to deal with and it's possible that it affected her in ways that were out of her control. Post Partum, father's cancer, father dying, moving to new city with no friends, etc. She agreed and said it probably affected our relationship but she's too far gone now and doesn't want to work at it.

She did leave a slight crack saying that maybe she'll feel differently in the future, who knows what the future holds but right now she's closed to me.

She also mentioned she hasn't fought for more time with our son because I'm a good dad and she didn't want to take him away from me.

She has agreed though to do some consistent counselling and she just got a message from the family doctor about being referred to a psychiatrist.

After all this, here's what I think: She's having an affair. She wont' work on our marriage or go to counselling. No interest at all. Our son is never at her condo (hasnt' been there since February). I bought her a plant 6 weeks ago and she wouldn't take it to her condo. I made her pictures of her and her dad back in April and she still has them at my place. AS we know, most women don't leave a marriage unless they have someone else. Most people want to have someone in their life. Hard to believe she's giving up on our family to be single and alone. And of course if you go back to the beginning of my story there were plenty of signs early on that she was with other people (or one other person).

So, how does this change anything for me? Well I think detaching gets a little easier now. I'll be taking off my ring now for good unless we reunite down the road. I'll start the process of taking down her pictures over the next few weeks. I'll fight for my son. I will no longer initiate any conversations unless its about our son. I will be moving on with my life without her. I've done all I can to try and keep the family together. We'll see what the future brings.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2864278 09/06/19 11:10 AM
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ANy thoughts on the above post?


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2864280 09/06/19 11:21 AM
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Hey jac

I’m not wholly familiar with your sitch but I think you’re pretty much spot on with your thought pattern and future plans. Your wife will learn the consequences of her actions including being offside with her brother.

I took my ring off about a month in. It felt really weird but it felt weirder keeping it on given the XWs treatment of me and resolve that it was over. Good luck mate!


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Jac12 #2864284 09/06/19 11:31 AM
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J,

Yeah my guess is there is someone else. You've only been married 4 years and have a young child so it's very uncommon for her to just walk away.

I think your last paragraph is perfect and dead on. Don't hang your hat on her maybe changing her mind down the road. That's typical script saying you're plan B.

Lastly, you need to work on validation. The purpose of validation is to let her know you understand how she feels without judgement. It is not to make her feel bad or guilty.

You will survive and things will get better my man.

Jac12 #2864291 09/06/19 11:46 AM
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LH,

I could really use your advice in my thread.

Jac12 #2864364 09/06/19 03:01 PM
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I agree I think there is someone else. If I were you I'd hit hard and fast. Figure out how to use this to get full custody of your son and file. Or get her to agree to that in the separation agreement. Do not pay her one penny more than you have to. If you think you can nice her back you can't. The part where she can't afford her new and shiny life isn't your problem anymore. She's said she's done so believe her.

My WAH talked me out of doing a separation agreement but that was only because he knew he'd have to pay me more than he wanted to. WAH has always been short sighted so yes I allowed him to pay me less child support than he should have been paying. Financially it was in his best interest to go ahead file while I was still hopeful. I would have accepted a lower alimony amount in an attempt to nice him back now or sometime in the future.

Jac12 #2864454 09/06/19 08:45 PM
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Thanks all.

LH - I agree on working on validation. I'll keep working on that as I have the urge to jump in and speak way too much.


Kas - she can afford her new life no problem. Since she started her new job last year she makes 3x what I make. The problem for her is she doesn't feel like she can afford her life if she's also paying child support/spousal support. She's terrible at saving. Not my problem anymore, I just need to make sure she's financially responsible for her son.

I have no interest in "nicing" her back. I tried that, no effect. Now it's time to move on with my life and let what will be, be.

If she comes back down the road I'll deal with that then but as of now she's gone.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2865183 09/12/19 11:13 PM
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Journaling -

Not much as happened in the past week. I see my W on Wednesday nights when I get home from work (normally around my sons bedtime). Last night she was tucking him in when I came home so I went upstairs to join. She was reading to him and after about 3 minutes she says: "it's so weird with you here". She feels awkward reading to him out loud (ridiculous yes but she felt that way even before BD). Then when he wants a few songs she won't sing, for the same reason. So I do it, and I enjoy it.

We did talk after as my therapist recommended I share something about my past with her that she didn't know and how that may have affected me in our relationship. She listened well and was appreciative of me sharing. Asked a couple questions about therapy (she still says she's planning on going consistently but we'll see) and if I felt good opening up. My therapist thought it might help her open up down the road too, or even push her subconsciously to get moving on her own IC. After that she talked about her day and then mentioned that her lawyer needed to know some details on our mortgage and my investments, so that was a bit of a downer. I expect it but it [censored] hearing her talk about this like it's no big deal to her. I just said no problem what do you need and I'll send it to you.

This weekend she's having her mom stay at her place so she can look after our son while my W goes to an auto show. This bugs me. She only gets 1 full day a week with our son (and he only gets one with his mom) and she's prioritizing an auto show with friends over time with him. It always makes me wonder why she thinks I'm the problem...I'm one of many people she has disconnected from.

She also is going to have her mom live with her for a month or two. Not sure what to think of that. Her mom wants us to work things out and she wants her to do IC so that's good. Her and I have a good relationship too.

Aside from that I've been busy enjoying my time with my son and working on a new website for golfers. I've been playing and practicing when I'm not working as I have three tournaments over the next 2 weeks so hopefully cash a little money in those. I need to make some more friends in this area - but since my son is with me at night I don't have much time to meet new people. I had some friends come by last weekend though and we had a good time.

Some days are better than others. I did take all the pictures down of us and I left a picture of her in our sons room for him. She obviously noticed but didn't say anything. We are now 9 months into this mess and it feels like it's been forever. Some days I see the woman I married but those moments are few and far between. I think the distance between us is helping her move closer to divorce. I'm trying to connect when the opportunity presents itself but otherwise I don't contact her at all and she no longer contacts me. No texts out of the blue, no instagram messages (she would sometimes send me the odd meme) and no calls. Doesn't ask about our son on the days she isn't with him and never calls to talk to him or say goodnight. I wonder if she even wants to be a mom.

We should be finalizing our S agreement over the next few weeks. I really hope I'll get custody of our son - I'll be fighting for full custody.

Anyways, long note but that's what's going on. As always I appreciate any advice or insight.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2865189 09/12/19 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jac12
My therapist thought it might help her open up down the road too, or even push her subconsciously to get moving on her own IC.

This feels contrary to DB principles. Definitely don't be sharing things with the hopes your W will change.

Originally Posted by jac12
After that she talked about her day and then mentioned that her lawyer needed to know some details on our mortgage and my investments, so that was a bit of a downer. I expect it but it [censored] hearing her talk about this like it's no big deal to her. I just said no problem what do you need and I'll send it to you.

You handled it great.

Originally Posted by jac12
This weekend she's having her mom stay at her place so she can look after our son while my W goes to an auto show. This bugs me. She only gets 1 full day a week with our son (and he only gets one with his mom) and she's prioritizing an auto show with friends over time with him. It always makes me wonder why she thinks I'm the problem...I'm one of many people she has disconnected from.

Have you heard of the concept of "right of first refusal?"

Originally Posted by jac12
She also is going to have her mom live with her for a month or two. Not sure what to think of that. Her mom wants us to work things out and she wants her to do IC so that's good. Her and I have a good relationship too.

I would try as hard as you can to let go of trying to read something into this.

Originally Posted by jac12
We should be finalizing our S agreement over the next few weeks. I really hope I'll get custody of our son - I'll be fighting for full custody.

Are you documenting things going on? For instance, your W choosing to do other things during her parenting time? A daily journal or similar may help you in a legal situation (obvious caveat I am not a lawyer).

Jac12 #2865193 09/13/19 12:11 AM
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Unchien, thanks for the response...what do you mean of right of first refusal as it relates to my sitch? I get it in business terms.

I need to stop reading into a lot of things. Like most of us sometimes I feel like I'm handling things well until someone suggests that I could be better.

I'm definitely documenting everything just in case.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
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My understanding of right of first refusal (and I may be wrong) is that you and your W would agree that the other person gets the right of first refusal to watch your son.

Upon re-reading your comments, it sounds like this is not an issue for you - you were primarily annoyed that in her very limited time with your son, your W still chose to go do something else. I think I was projecting my sitch onto yours.

Jac12 #2865285 09/13/19 08:59 PM
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Well $#%# is hitting the fan now.

Just received email back from lawyers and of course she wants 50/50 custody (or at least the lawyer is telling her to try) and it upsets me. She's been a terrible mom and she abandoned her child when she left the house. At least the courts will look at that favourably for me as I've been the responsible parent. I'm going to fight as much as I can for as much time with my son as possible. I have a feeling it will get nasty but what am I supposed to do?

She's also saying her income is less than it actually is (no big deal as the T4's will show the truth) and she of course wants to pay less child support or spousal support.

Also is against me keeping the house and my investments.

She has yet to take any responsibility for the breakdown of our marriage or even apologize for her behaviour. I've done IC and have apologized for numerous things in our relationship. Have tried to be a better person and future partner and have stepped up to be a great dad for our son. I'm the one taking him to school and picking him up. Taking him to doctor appointment and haircuts. Buying new clothes for him. She hasn't done any of this.

I think I'm at a point now where I despise the person she has become. I knew this would happen if she tried to take my son away. She has ruined our family with her selfish behaviour and I feel like I'm done with her. At the same time I'm aware that feelings change and I understand now why all the vets always say "feelings can change so don't get too wrapped up in how she's currently feeling".


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2865309 09/14/19 12:31 PM
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Do what you feel is best. As long as you aren't doing it expecting a reaction from her and its for your emotional and mental health, then go for it. Just remember to focus on yourself.

I would stop talking to her family about this. It will honestly give her more justification because she will eventually blame you for trying to turn her family against her. Thats what my EXWW did when her family found out. Her family actually called me because they noticed something was up with her social media accounts.

I also closed my SM accounts. I didnt lie about what happened. She got very angry when I didnt lie for her.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
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That's good advice SoTorn...I will stop talking to her family about all of this. They've been on my side but of course that can change in a minute.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2865789 09/19/19 02:58 PM
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Couple things: Sunday was her day with our Son and she left him with grandma for 7 hours so she could go to a race track with work friends. Her mom was not pleased. Her brother stopped by and also was not happy about this. He plans on giving her crap about it next time he sees her. He's very ticked off with how she's handling her mother duties.

I've made note of this for my Lawyer.

Last night I had some of her things packed up and she happily packed them into her car without my help. No big deal to her. It [censored] that she seems ok with everything on the outside. How can she be ok with seeing her kid maybe 50% of the time at best...I guess because whoever she is right now doesn't want the responsibility. She may stay this way or may come back.

I have to believe that she's with someone else and that's why she's ok with everything. I noticed she grabbed a few things from her nightstand including a bracelet and a bottle of lube for bj's. So that's great.

I see my Lawyer tomorrow to go over everything and see what the next steps are. I want this agreement done ASAP.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2865792 09/19/19 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jac12
Couple things: Sunday was her day with our Son and she left him with grandma for 7 hours so she could go to a race track with work friends. Her mom was not pleased. Her brother stopped by and also was not happy about this. He plans on giving her crap about it next time he sees her. He's very ticked off with how she's handling her mother duties.


That's the only day she had him all week? WOW. That just blows my mind, my XW became someone else but at least she continued to be a great mother (still is). It always astonishes me to read some of these stories about WAS's that basically abandon their kids but unfortunately it does happen.

Quote
I've made note of this for my Lawyer.


Good!

Quote
Last night I had some of her things packed up and she happily packed them into her car without my help. No big deal to her. It [censored] that she seems ok with everything on the outside. How can she be ok with seeing her kid maybe 50% of the time at best...I guess because whoever she is right now doesn't want the responsibility. She may stay this way or may come back.


Yes exactly. She probably will return to her old self later, maybe completely or maybe only partially. It took my XW years and I'd say she's maybe 50% of who she was. Some days it seems like 75% and other days 25% though.

Hang in there, you'll come out of this a happier person I'm sure but it'll take a while!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Thanks AS - I always appreciate your insight.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2865956 09/20/19 07:55 PM
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I had another visit with my L today to go over a response to her L. I feel stronger after this visit.

Here are the details:

Custody: It looks like we will probably have joint custody but my S will live with me and she can have her visits just like we currently are doing (Wed/Sun for Ex-W). If it went to court I would have a very strong case with the changes I made to look after our son, her mental health struggles (our family doctor referred her to a psychiatrist that she has yet to see), the current status quo that we agree upon, and her skipping out on days with our son. My L believes they are unlikely to change the current setup since it's working nice for our son.

She'll owe Child Support backdated to Feb 1 plus Spousal (which I'll take less to keep house and investments).

Getting the info really helps to move forward as I'm a little less worried about how things will shake out.

We may attempt to figure it out on our own but I don't think that will work so we are likely going to mediation in a couple of months.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2866223 09/23/19 10:56 PM
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Update:

My WAW lost her job today. They let 8 people go and she was one of them despite being #2 last year in revenue and #2 last month. She texted me to let me know.

On top of that she received the response from my L today basically saying I wanted primary physical custody and that she took off on two of her full days with Kai so she could go out with friends for the day (basically saying she's a disinterested mom).

It's a good thing her mom is staying with her for a few days.

I'm not sure how this is going to affect our separation agreement but I'm sure it will. Life gets better every day.

On the positive side I won a golf tournament today and picked up $2500 so that helps.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2866717 09/29/19 12:29 AM
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My W and I are trying to discuss the separation agreement. We've had a couple chats over the last few days and it's interesting to see the things she's admitting to.

1) She said her priorities were out of line for most of the past 10 months.
2) She agrees she acted in ways that she wouldn't now.
3) She said she needs to see the psychiatrist (important for our family/son to know as it may run in the family)
4) She said she needs to start consistent counselling
5) She mentioned she knows she has an issue with never being happy with what she has. This was related also to her body/skin. She's always getting haircuts/botox/2 breast augmentations...just isn't happy with herself.

She still is adamant that she wants to divorce and doesn't feel the same way about me. I expected her to say this of course. I still find it weird though that she doesn't even think it's possible that feeling could change as she works on her own issues.

Anyways, I think we will be able to agree on the financial implications but we'll be stuck on the custody arrangement I think. I won't accept anything less than primary physical custody and my case is strong.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2866721 09/29/19 01:13 AM
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J,

She is making her decision based on emotions and not logic and reason. Time and space are the only things that turn these situations around long term.

Jac12 #2866738 09/29/19 11:06 AM
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Got it LH - I'm at the point now (10 months in) where I don't care as much as I used to about this working out. I feel separate from her. The plan is to just ride this out and see what happens. Either way I'll be fine.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2867127 10/03/19 01:10 AM
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My W started a chat today before leaving the house. Basically asked if her L should be expecting a letter from my L based on what me and her talked about last weekend.

I said "no, he's still on vacation but basically once we agree on the details we can have them draw it up. I'm not interested in paying him more money if we haven't finalized this ourselves yet...which I thought we did"

Her: I'm just not fine with the custody part (I would have primary custody, alternating wknds and she would see him after school on Wednesdays until bedtime)

Me: I can understand that. I'm not happy about it either - I don't want to give up any time with him.

Her: This is about what's best for our Son, not what's best for you.

Me: I realize that and I think what's best for him at 2.5 years old is to have a consistent home. I've offered to give you more time with him than what you've been getting and I'm not ok with anything more than that. If we were really focused on what was best for our son we wouldn't be having this discussion because I'm pretty sure divorced parents isn't what is best for him. This is probably my only child, it kills me that I won't get to see him every night. (yes, probably too much talking by me but at this point we are negotiating the separation agreement)

Her: You don't think you'll have another kid?

Me: I'm 38 I don't think so.

Her: At least you're a guy and you can if you want one. I'm the one with a timeline.

Me: Well I guess you better hurry. If I have to spend $20,000 to make sure he's with me I'm prepared to do that.

Her: Ok well I guess I'll think about that and get back to you.

Now she wont' see him again until Sunday morning. She's busy looking for a job working from home and plans to move with her mom closer to my house. Still has zero interest in being a family...I'll never understand it because we had a good life and always got along until she emotionally disconnected.

The crazy thing is after our chat on Saturday she asked me what I was going to be doing with our Son on Sunday and maybe she could come by and see him if we were around...like why on earth would I want to spend my day with Kai with her hanging around? I just told her we had plans but if they changed I'd let her know. Plan didn't change but I wouldn't have contacted her anyways.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2867129 10/03/19 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jac12
If we were really focused on what was best for our son we wouldn't be having this discussion because I'm pretty sure divorced parents isn't what is best for him.


That's a great reality check for your W, Jac. Will have to remember that one if H ever tries to play a similar card.

I think you did well apart from telling her how you feel about not seeing your son every night. Not because it's not true, but because she doesn't care and will resent you for making her 'the bad guy'.


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Jac12 #2867133 10/03/19 01:48 AM
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Thanks Scout - she just doesn't care though about us so I have no idea if any reality check would actually hit her. It's funny because she called me selfish for wanting primary custody (although I do believe that's what's best for him based on the last 12 months) when she has been acting nothing but selfishly for 12 months.

Last weekend we agreed she would pay $1200/month (600 daycare, 600 Child support). Well she sent me an etransfer today for $600. She had enough money to pay for a $330 chemical peel but can't support her child.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
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My H has said a similar thing - that I'm keeping S from him. Which is pretty rich considering he walked out leaving me to care for S full time on my own, and refused to help out when asked when both me and S were sick!

They talk a big game but can't back it up with actions.


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Jac12 #2867142 10/03/19 04:01 AM
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I don't like how you complained to your W that you may not have more kids. It comes off like you blame her. Same with the divorced parents aren't best for kids statement. Logic won't work. Your W will just think you are being controlling, clingy, and that you haven't heard her.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Jac12 #2867152 10/03/19 11:12 AM
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Over - her and I weren't planning on having more kids. I don't think I said that in a blaming tone it was just stating the truth. The reality is that divorce isn't what's best for kids - there have been enough studies to show that. At this point I'm not trying to win her back I'm just stating the facts and being honest.

As for controlling and clingy - I only talk to her when I see her on the 2 days/week she sees our son. I don't call, text, email (unless an emergency or something she should be aware of about our son). She's on her own and I'm doing my thing.

Moving forward I'm not going to tippy toe around her. I'm trying my best to not say too much but when I have something to say I want to be honest.

Plus, we are about 10 months in and I still don't recognize this new person and there are no signs that she is close to returning.

Last edited by jac12; 10/03/19 11:13 AM.

H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2867864 10/10/19 12:15 PM
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My W wants 50/50 custody of our son and is no longer willing to accept the other deal which was her being with him about 33% of the time.

During our talk she says to me: "Are you going to be ok telling our son that you kept his mother away from him?"

Like wtf? Does she not see that even at 50/50 she's taking him away from me too.

I'd love to turn the tables on her and ask how she would act if the roles were reversed: "W, imagine that one day out of the blue I tell you I don't love you anymore and don't want to work at it. Then I move out and leave our son with you. While I'm out, I barely contact you or son to check in. I also don't contribute financially even though I make 150k/year. On some of the days I'm supposed to spend with our son I decide to go hang out with friends instead and I leave him with grandma. Then when you tell me you're having a tough time making ends meet because you changed your job so you could be a full time mom, I act indifferent and still don't contribute financially. Then the doctor refers me to a psychiatrist and I choose not to go, despite admitting that I'm struggling. After 8 months of this, I then decide I want 50/50 custody. Would you be ok with that?"

I know what her answer would be. She thinks I'm being selfish - she doesn't see how selfish she's been for nearly a full year. How we have it worked out currently is fine - our son seems happy and not too affected by all this crap.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2867904 10/10/19 06:33 PM
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Jac you are 100% correct that she is being incredibly selfish. You are also quite correct in that she will never see it or understand it no matter how you phrase it back to her. You can't get her to see and understand her selfish ways, you can only listen and validate and hope that some day she comes to her senses.

If she's a narcissist then she never will get it, because she can only see things from her point of view. She'll always be the "victim" no matter how cruel and selfish she's being.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Jac12 #2867910 10/10/19 07:22 PM
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Thanks AS - I'll admit that I am no longer hopeful of this working out. I suppose I remain a tad open to it down the road but that's only because I still think the old version of her may come back.

She does seem to be spinning a bit now but it's so crazy that she can't see how terrible her behaviour has been for the past 10 months. She never once apologized or tried to explain her actions. She thinks she can just choose when to be a mom. It's also interesting that she only really expressed interest in seeing our son more when she got fired from her job 3 weeks ago. I guess she's bored now?

I really would like this settlement to be done with and to move forward.

We are going to meet with our lawyers and see if we can get this done without having to go do a mediator.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2868532 10/17/19 01:22 AM
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I don't look forward to the nights my W is with our son. She stays at my house with him (convenience and easier for son) after daycare until I come home.

Tonight she put him to bed and came downstairs. She was taking her sweet time which doesn't happen much. She noticed a doctors form for an ultrasound I need to have (nothing major) and asked if I was doing ok. I just said yes I'm doing great.

I could tell she was sad though so I asked:

Me: How about you, are you doing ok? You seem a bit down
W: I'm just sad about son (gets teary)
Me: Why is that?
W: I'm sad that I don't get to see him that much.
Me: I understand how you feel.
W: I don't think you do (starts to get a little mad).
Me: Why is that? I think I understand, this is tough for all of us.
W: I just don't think you do.

After that she packed up her food she made and left without saying much else. Normally I would press her to talk and ask her not to drive home upset. This time I just said "I'm sorry you feel upset". She left after that.

She is likely expecting me to text her to check in. I won'd do that. Her feelings are not my responsibility. I feel like I was calm and kind and left the door open for her to communicate more if she chose.

All her crying just feels so manipulative. I think she even peaked up once to see my reaction. I have a feeling she thinks I love her so much that I won't fight for as much custody as I can. AS mentioned before, I have a good case for primary caregiver or full custody so it's quite likely I'll end up with more that 50/50.

How did I handle this?


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
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Hey Jac.

If I may take a stab at interpreting this exchange, she likely got mad because (in her mind) you couldn't possibly understand how she feels due to the inequity in parenting time. You have him more often, so (in her mind) you aren't experiencing the same sense of loss as she. Then, by telling her that it's tough on all of you, she probably felt guilty and defensive at being reminded she caused this situation, and also that you diminished her feelings by chiming in about yours. Just my guess.

Perhaps saying "Yes, that would be upsetting" or "I can see how that would be hard for you" would have been better?


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Jac12 #2868535 10/17/19 01:55 AM
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J,


I’m an advocate for 50/50 custody unless there are special circumstances that warrants something different. Any reason why you won’t do 50/50 with her?

Last edited by LH19; 10/17/19 01:56 AM.
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Scout - I can see your point. My point, which I didn't share with her, is that I will experience his inequity too as I'm currently seeing him 5-6 days a week and that will likely change for the worse. So from my viewpoint I do understand b/c I know I'll be seeing him less than I do now.

LH - I don't want 50/50 because he's my son. I've done nothing to cause this and I've done everything I can to be a full-time parent while she has left us. I'm taking him to daycare and picking him up. I'm paying for all expenses. I'm taking him for haircuts, doctor appointments, playdates, etc...

She only asked for more time and has shown this sadness since she lost her job. Is she bored? Has more time to think about everything? I don't know but she hasn't been a good mom for nearly a year. Why would I want that for my son?

Also, she still has yet to see the psychiatrist and I really don't know how that plays into everything. She ran from her responsibilities and I'm supposed to trust that she has his best interest at heart? I don't know anymore. It's almost like your trusting someone you don't know with your child bc she isn't the same person anymore and I really don't know who she is.

What it comes down to for me is that I love my son and I can't imagine only seeing him half the time. I've been the responsible parent.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2868540 10/17/19 03:30 AM
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My question is..... what does your son want or need? I was the responsible parent for more than four years. My XH was so busy trying to run from our relationship during that time that he ran from every relationship that had anything to do with me...including our kids and they barely saw him. I did not want the divorce. I did not want to be a 50% parent. It galled me that he could just waltz back into their lives as if nothing happened and not only take them from me 50% of the time but replace me with some stranger as if that was perfectly okay. It was so unfair and so ridiculous that he could just unilaterally decide to change all of our lives with none of us getting any kind of a say.

But...the reality is that the law says he is entitled to 50% custody unless he is a danger or a risk to them. He was an a$$ but he is not a danger or a risk and neither is his OW. The law doesn’t care about the fairness of it from the other parent’s perspective. People are allowed to do this in countries/states (don’t know where you are from) which is why they are called no-fault divorces. Isn’t that a joke. Anyway... I hated it Jac...and it doesn’t matter. The law says he is entitled and, even if that wasn’t the case, I know my kids are better off if they have a good relationship with both of their parents. My daughter commented that she sees her dad more now than she did when he lived with us and she’s not wrong. She and her brother are happy to have him back and are benefitting from it.

Bottom line... it was not what I wanted.... I wanted them to have the two-parent family that I had growing up. My XH, however, had other plans so we have to adapt and adjust and my kids have done this in the best possible way because I have kept the focus on them and their needs and kept my feelings out of it. And...now that we’ve been doing this schedule for six months, I’ve gotten used to having time on my own and have even come to enjoy it. I get where you are coming from... trust me, I really, really do... but your son needs and deserves to have both of his parents in his life and if your W is starting to regret some of her decisions and wanting more time with him, that’s a good thing. If you had a heart attack tomorrow and were unable to care for him, guess who would be responsible for his care then? Something to think about...

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J,

Well J if you really feel you did nothing to cause this then you may need to do some self reflection. I’m sorry but he’s my son is not an acceptable answer. I agree with D, what does your son want? What if you lost your feelings for your W and wanted a divorce and she went for full custody? A child needs his mother just as much as he needs his father. Now if she’s not keeping up with her parenting then that is one thing but if she is able to get her $hit together and wants 50/50 custody then you IMO you should consider giving it to her.

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LH - I realize that I played a part to cause this, but it's a small part. I've been open and honest with her with any mistakes I have made and I've worked hard to fix them. This is a pattern in her life though...as soon as she gets bored she moves on (cars, jobs, relationships, etc.). She left her child and was ok seeing him 1.5 days a week for the last 4 months.

I have no intention of keeping my son away from her. I know he needs his mother in his life but I also don't want her dumping him off with family or a baby sitter all the time so she can go out with her friends. Im not talking in the evening when he goes to bed, I mean during the day too.

I would like to know she is working on herself (actually seeing the psychiatrist she was referred to, going to counseling). That would make be feel better but as of now she's done zero self reflection on her part. She's now the victim in this despite that fact that her actions led to me being the primary caregiver.

Deja - Thank you for your input as well. My son is 2.5 years old so in my mind he needs someone who will be there for him. In all ways. I've been that person and she hasn't - and she's aware that she hasn't been a good mom. I would feel better about that if I knew she was the mom she used to be but even then it would be difficult of course.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
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BD 12/18
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Jac12 #2868589 10/17/19 03:10 PM
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Need some help:

I asked me wife if she wanted to spend the weekend with our son before him and I go to Florida for two weeks in early november.

Her response:

"That would be lovely. Thank you. Are you around on the Saturday? Maybe we can use that day to finally go to the aquarium".

How should I respond?

Of course I would like to do things as a family IF we were a family. But I also would rather not if we aren't trying to get things back together. Is it best to just go and enjoy the day? Isn't this cake eating?


H 37
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S 2

T: 7
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J,

If you want to go and have no expectations then go. If not, then tell her thanks for the offer but you already have plans.

Jac12 #2868634 10/17/19 06:24 PM
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What LH said. Some people might argue not to go because it's cake-eating for her. And some might argue you should go to "show her what she's missing". But at the end of the day it's not going to make or break things so it's up to you.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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She lost her job and is bored. I wouldn't go with her but that's just me. I would also go for full custody. If you don't and she drops him at babysitters you won't be able to do anything about it. My sister did this crap and that kid is messed up now from her neglect. You can always let her see your son more as long as she is responsible. He's 2 not 12 and yes it matters.

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Thanks everyone.

I think I'm going to pass on going. It's quite likely that if I don't go she won't take him. I think it has more to do with her not knowing how to spend time with him and it's just easier for her if I'm there.

I think given the circumstances I will go for as much custody as I can. I'll also leave that open to changing if she starts showing responsibility and consistency as a parent. I don't think I mentioned this but after our last talk about custody she even agreed that we would stick to the status quo until she gets going on her counseling and sees they psychiatrist. He has been low on her priority list for the past 10 months. Why should I expect that to just change all of a sudden when she hasn't done any work on herself? I'm a little concerned she'll find some other new shiny thing a few months later that will get her interest more than her son.


H 37
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S 2

T: 7
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I sent her a text:

"Thanks for the invite but I'm going to pass on going to the aquarium. You should have a nice day with son."

I just don't feel right going at this point. I'm either not detached enough or I just don't want to do family things in the future if we aren't a family. I'm honestly not sure but it's probably a bit of both reasons.


H 37
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S 2

T: 7
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I don't understand my W. I'm off to Florida tomorrow for two weeks to visit family with my son.

Tonight when I came home (it's her night with our son) she stayed around for an extra 5-10 minutes. Just small talk. But when she left she gave me a hug and said : "say hi to everyone for me".

Does she not understand that our family isn't too pleased with how she's acted during all this? They don't know all the details but they know enough to know she basically walked out with no effort and hasn't been a great mom to our son.
Anyways, it's just confusing.

We had a bit of a cry together last week as she was reading to our son. She looked way more engaged with him than she has for the past 10 months and I mentioned that I was happy to see her enjoying her time with him but it also made me wonder where that person has been...that's when she started to tear up.


H 37
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Jac12 #2870058 10/31/19 01:20 AM
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Amen to this. My W wants a D but wants to stay “friends” and to “co-parent.” Small talk when I got home tonight. Is she cycling in and out of her fog, or his this just her new, permanent normal? Crazy stuff.
Hang in there, Jac!

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Hey Jac

How you doing buddy? I'm sorry but I'm not wholly familiar with your sitch. Isnt it tough when emotions creep in and there's tears.

Sounds like your W returned from the fog momentarily with the emotions and chit chat. I'd avoid comments to her like 'wonder where this person has been'. I know its so tempting though when you see them that way, isnt it.

I recently read up on 'compartmentalisation'. It may go someway toward explaining these behaviours.

I know its confusing! Its so confusing. Its emotional, and sometimes that just doesnt make sense. Heck, it still doesnt make sense to me, even though I know its to do with the W emotional crisis. There's no answer, and I think us blokes find that hard to comprehend.

Good luck Jac. Keep detaching and keep being the lighthouse. Cheers, DS


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
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S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
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Thanks guys - I know there is no rhyme or reason to it. At times I'm so incredulous as to how unaware my W seems of the situation she's put us all in.


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Originally Posted by jac12
Thanks guys - I know there is no rhyme or reason to it. At times I'm so incredulous as to how unaware my W seems of the situation she's put us all in.

Par for the course.

As DS9 said this is probably compartmentalization. Keep what's useful, discard the rest. We all do it, to varying degrees. It may appear blatant and obvious to you, but it is not to her. Maybe she feels guilty and needs to "play family" a bit to try to deal with it. But also be aware that we all are living with different narratives running in our heads, and other people may also be able to point out the inconsistencies and cognitive dissonance. I'm only saying this to suggest you have some compassion that she is going through her own struggle.

Let her deal with her emotions. It's the best gift you can give yourself. Then you can make decisions about what you want to do with confidence.

My W invited me over to trick or treat tonight with the kids. My initial reaction was No, that I don't want to play family. But when I thought about what *I* want to do, on my own terms, I thought... of course I want to see the kids in their costumes and take them around and have fun. Am I enabling my W by doing this? Possibly. Or maybe I shouldn't care at all what she thinks, or what message I am sending. I'm going to spend time with my kids, and I'm going to have fun.

Anyways, it is funny the things they will say and do. Everyone (LBS and WAS) is just trying to cope in their own flawed human way.

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Well said Unchien - thanks for that. It's a good reminder for me at a time when I needed it.


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Did everyone here have the same realizations and posts today? Lol Myself and other people in multiple threads have been saying the pretty much the same things about balancing our POV and narratives and realizing the WAS with the LBS. Too uncanny. I think today for some apparent reason we all just grew a few more steps.

Jac12 #2870294 11/01/19 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jac12
At times I'm so incredulous as to how unaware my W seems of the situation she's put us all in.


But in her eyes it's all your fault. She's probably incredulous that you don't see that. I'm not saying she's right, but a WAW's perceptions are her reality. She thinks you drove her to take action, and now that you're looking at the wreckage of your M, she's probably angry that you think it's all her fault when she thinks it's you. I don't say stuff like this to defend the WAW, but to explain her mindset. It's one of the reasons why it's important to avoid confrontation and focus on listening and validating- because her feelings, no matter how wrong they seem to you, are her reality.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Fair enough AS...appreciate the insight.


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Well, I'm down in Florida right now. A trip we've done together for the past 4 years visiting some family. We arrived on Halloween and she asked me to send her some pictures of our son dressed up. She made a few nice comments. I haven't heard from her since...she hasn't asked about her son at all. You'd think she'd like to talk to him but nothing. It's been nearly a week.

I also notice that I miss her terribly. I have this urge to reach out and tell her how I feel. She should be part of this and despite what I've been through I still want her in my life. I know she's been struggling with lots of things and although I'm not hopeful that things will work out, I am open to that possibility.

Is there any instance where this is productive? To reach out I mean. I know the advice is not to do that but I feel like I need some 2x4's to remind me why it's the best chance of R.


H 37
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J,

To put it simply, when you pursue someone who is rejecting you that displays low value.

Now if you want to have a friendship that's another story.

Jac12 #2870983 11/06/19 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jac12
I also notice that I miss her terribly. I have this urge to reach out and tell her how I feel. She should be part of this and despite what I've been through I still want her in my life. I know she's been struggling with lots of things and although I'm not hopeful that things will work out, I am open to that possibility.

Is there any instance where this is productive? To reach out I mean. I know the advice is not to do that but I feel like I need some 2x4's to remind me why it's the best chance of R.

You asked for a 2x4 so I will do my best =)

Do you think that you reaching out to her is going to help her with her struggles?

Or are you reaching out to help her strengthen her relationship with your son?

Or are you reaching out just to soothe your own feelings of loss and grief?

It sounds like you have a lot of feelings swirling around. This is why we advise in most cases to do nothing, Let those feelings settle so you can sort them out. While they are swirling around, if you take action, you are at the whim of your emotions without fully understanding them.

Does the fact she hasn't reached out in a week to you tell you something? Maybe in the future she will blame you for not initiating contact again? Will you feel guilty? Or will you feel like it is another justification on her part? You may have to face this in the future.

This stuff is super HARD. You are reminiscing about previous years. Recognize that you are triggered by those memories. But you can't go back to the old MR, whether you R or not.

"She should be part of this..." A wise person once told me "Don't go shoulding yourself." These are the MOANS... Must, Ought, Always, Never, Should... words best avoided. Hey, I still think my W *should* be trying harder to fix our MR for the sake of our kids, but she's not, and I have to empathize that she is on her own journey and I need to let it go. I may not use the language, but that feeling of "should' is still there. And it is not helpful to me in any way whatsoever.

LH19 #2870990 11/06/19 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
J,

To put it simply, when you pursue someone who is rejecting you that displays low value.


I hear you LH - and I agree with you. Sometimes I just feel like it should be different with your wife and mother of your child but I realize the dynamics are the same as all other relationships. I won't reach out to her even though my heart wants to.


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Unchien - Sometimes I feel like reaching out will help her. Maybe if she knew I understood and still supported her she would be more willing to get her own counselling and work her way back. However, I've tried this and it didn't affect her as far as doing the hard work on herself so I know I'm just reaching.

As for my son - she'll have to figure out that side. I tell him that his mom loves him when he asks where she is. But he basically never mentions her. Almost that he's accepted she's not part of his life. It's a little sad to be honest but that's out of my control.

Yes, I'm likely reaching out in hopes of soothing my own loss and grief. I still cant' believe this is what's become of our marriage. It's tough to understand and that's why my thoughts spiral at times.

The fact she hasn't reached out tells me she either just doesn't care or possibly that it hurts her too much as she knows she's messed things up. Those are the two thoughts that go through my mind. Yes, I do worry she'll feel like I really wasnt' there for her and it will add to her justification. I know this isn't true - I've told her the odd time how I feel.

Hard is right...overall I think I've done well. My son seems very happy and he has lots of love around him. I'm working on rebuilding my business and I have more and more days where I'm doing well.

It's very difficult when you still really care and love the person who was walked away. Going from doing everything together and laughing a lot to no contact is hard to wrap your head around.

I appreciate all the support from this forum.


H 37
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S 2

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Quick Update:

Finally heard from W last Sunday - nothing to report from there except she said she felt weird and sad looking at our photos that I posted of our trip on instagram.

On Remembrance Day I sent her a picture of a poppy (her dad was a veteran) and she replied: Thank you for thinking of us (heart).

Then Today she texts: "Looking forward to you guys coming home. It's very cold and snowy. Son is going to need snow gear ASAP and your winter tires changed over."

I'm not reading into these as she has showed concern for us before and it didn't lead to anything but I still find it odd if she's completely done with me.

My question: If she asks to do something as a family is it ok to go? There is no confirmation of an A (although I consider that likely) and I don't want to put up a giant roadblock if she's making attempts in her own way to spend time with me. If I can do that without expectations I assume that's ok? I feel fairly detached at this point and I'm more concerned with improving things about myself.

I just picked up a part-time job (old company wanted me back) that has the potential to add 50k to my yearly income so with both jobs I'll be working around 40 hours/week making 100k. Financially I wont' need her help at all. I'm in great shape and I've made some changes in my life to be less judgmental and more accepting of others choices. All in all, I'm in a good place to have a better relationship with her or with someone else.


H 37
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S 2

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Jac12 #2872066 11/13/19 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jac12
My question: If she asks to do something as a family is it ok to go? There is no confirmation of an A (although I consider that likely) and I don't want to put up a giant roadblock if she's making attempts in her own way to spend time with me.
Wait until she invites you. Respond with "Let me think about it". Then post here. Get feedback. Then make a decision.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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Got it, thanks R2C


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Jac12 #2872154 11/14/19 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jac12
My question: If she asks to do something as a family is it ok to go? There is no confirmation of an A (although I consider that likely) and I don't want to put up a giant roadblock if she's making attempts in her own way to spend time with me. If I can do that without expectations I assume that's ok? I feel fairly detached at this point and I'm more concerned with improving things about myself.


I agree with R2C in never jumping to a fast acceptance, tell her you'll think about it, or (my favorite) that you need to check your schedule and will let her know. As far as whether to go or not, the key is what you said- you need to be able to do it without expectations and if you can do that then in my opinion it's fine. My XW and I never did stop having joint birthday parties for the kids, in fact we still do it now. And every once in a while we'll all go out to dinner together. We do it for the kids, we've always tried to show them that we still support them together despite our differences.

Quote
I just picked up a part-time job (old company wanted me back) that has the potential to add 50k to my yearly income so with both jobs I'll be working around 40 hours/week making 100k. Financially I wont' need her help at all. I'm in great shape and I've made some changes in my life to be less judgmental and more accepting of others choices. All in all, I'm in a good place to have a better relationship with her or with someone else.


Perfect! That's what it's all about smile


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Thanks AS.


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Update:

Today is our 5th Anniversary and I returned home yesterday from Florida. My W texted me yesterday asking if she could see our S today and hang out for the day. I said she could pick him up from daycare early and spend the day as I wasn't sure if she meant hang out with me too or just our S.

This morning she asked again what my plans were and if I'd be around today. I simply said "Yes, I'll be around for the day".

She picked him up near 4pm and asked me if I wanted to join them at a PlayFit. I decided to go. We talked a bit there and she started tearing up about something so I said: " I see you're sad, why don't we talk about this later if you still want to".

We all came back to the house and had dinner prepped so she stayed and ate with us. She initiated some talks about her finding a job. She asked my opinion on a bunch of things. I gave my opinion when asked and tried not to otherwise.

She also said she didn't want to come back to me just because it makes sense financially. She wants to give herself some time to think about things and work on herself so she can be sure she's coming back for the right reasons (if she does of course). I just validated and listened. She also said we were invited to a cottage her brother rented this wknd and she was going to ask me but she knew I had plans to take S to a Santa parade tomorrow.

She also said she's more aware of her mental health and making sure she's in a good state. She does plan on following through to see a psychiatrist but she is really concerned about going on medication. She feels her old job also contributed to poor mental health. Wants to talk to someone about everything that has gone on and where she's at now to help her through this period.

I did say a couple things - notably that I've learned a lot during this time too and as difficult as this has been I feel like I'm in a better spot to be a better partner. I didn't tell her I loved her but I did say I thing we can work through things and I'd support her with her mental health 100% if she needed me.

When she left she said: "The date today (our anniversary) is not lost on me". She then started crying and came back for a second hug. "I said it's not lost on me either but at least we had dinner" and that broke the tension a bit.

Anyways - I'm not sure what to make of everything although she at least recognizes that she's getting back to her old self again (she said that too) but is still cautious.

I don't know where this is going to go but I think I'll be ok either way. Of course I'm hoping we can work things out but I'm not going to let my hopes rest on her.

It's been nearly 12 months since BD and it's been a long road just as all the vets said. It looks like if R is to happen it's going to be an even longer road too.

For now:

1) Patience
2) Enjoy my time with Son
3) Continue to make my own personal improvements
4) Give space and GAL.


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To follow on my previous post:

I ended up spending the day today with my W and son...Sunday is her day to spend with him but she invited me along and based on our previous chat I decided to enjoy the day with no expectations.

We had a very nice day but we did chat while my son took his nap.

She finally apologized for her behaviour last December/January and for making my feel insecure about our relationship (she was going out friday nights with guys from work until 2am). She said at that point she just didn't care about anything. She was crying as she told me this and she felt really sad for how I must have felt and for putting me through that. I just listened as best I could.

She also talked about losing her dad and how that affected her. Again, started crying. Said she still doens't think she has processed his death and she became so good at holding everything in. Also said that it did affect her and her feelings about everything and it was like that since he was diagnosed.

Also talked about what she has learned - she said she needs to learn to communicate better and she wished she would have told me much earlier that she wasnt' feeling good about things in her life in general. She does admit she needs help counseling to sort through all her feelings.

We didn't talk about the future at all - she knows how I feel. But she did talk about her living situation as her lease is up at the end of January. She said her life is still a mess and she has lots to sort out before making a decision. She said she wanted to leave it at that.

I hugged her and thanked her for opening up. She seemed to really appreciate me listening to her and not judging her. She's actually distanced herself from her brother right now as she felt judged by him and that's one of her big things in life that she hates.

It seems at this point she still needs time to sort through her mess but it's nice to see she's feeling better in general and she's made the odd comment about the future but I don't read anything into it.

Her priorities right now are (not in order):
1) exercise
2) deal with the loss of her dad in counseling
3) see a psychiatrist
4) eat better

Any thoughts are appreciated.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2872436 11/18/19 01:16 AM
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J,

Could be headed in the right direction. I wouldn’t accept every offer to spend time with her. I also think you make her think you may not necessarily be waiting for you.

Whatever you do make sure you don’t pursue.

Jac12 #2872439 11/18/19 01:30 AM
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Gotcha - I've read enough to know that by now but damn it is tough. I'm trying to just be supportive and accepting of the time she needs while working on myself in the meantime. I can see she's still a mess and that makes it easier in a way.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2872457 11/18/19 01:03 PM
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Jac, I've seen a lot of sitches play out here and the sitches that recon do follow a path like the one that you're on. I'd say your chances are very good that she's going to want to recon at some point. It's very important for you to be patient, keep giving her time and space, and keep GAL'ing and being the lighthouse. What I am seeing from you is that you are not breaking into full-blown pursuit so good job, because that would send her running! Keep it up, you're doing great. She's starting to come out of the fog but she may have months of personal work ahead before she sorts out what she wants as far as an R with you.

Always be mindful that you cannot fix her. Your job is to listen and validate, that's it. Don't make counseling recommendations or medication suggestions or anything like that. "I don't think I can go on medication!" Bad response- "Oh but it can really help, lots of people take A/D's and have no issues." Good response- "It sounds like you have fears about going on A/D's, is that how you feel?" Help her navigate her feelings.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Jac12 #2872504 11/18/19 05:57 PM
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Thanks AS. It's all so interesting how it plays out. The timelines, the scripts, the fog...I can see that she has lots of personal work to do still and even though I've always thought there were some inner issues she needed to deal with I didn't really expect that we'd have a chance of getting things back. Now I can see that the chance is greater and I need to be careful not to get my expectations up and jump in too fast.

The other thing I've noticed in our discussions is that the only thing that was going to help early in our sitch was for me to give her space and GAL. So for any newbies here as tough as it is you have to be strong enough to let go as soon as you get that BD and let them figure it out for themselves. Everything I did from months 0-6 had no effect on her whatsoever bc she didn't care about anything.

Anyways, she sent me a nice text this morning wishing me well in a meeting I had. Another new thing that hasn't happened in months.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2872695 11/19/19 11:02 PM
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Quick Question:

Before my trip Oct 31-Nov 14 we had agreed to meet with our lawyers. I didn't hear anything back from her L until I reached out to my L today. Her L confirmed the date on Nov 7th but my L forgot to tell me. After I got back, as noted above, my W has been more open and seems to be more on the fence again as it relates to divorce.

So...I called my W today and told her I just heard back from my L about the date being scheduled. I said "is this what you want to do? Based on the last few days and what we've discussed I wasn't sure if this still makes sense at this moment".

Her response: "Yeah my L reached out when I was away and I was just like ok I guess that date works. But I've noticed that my feelings are changing and I'm feeling more like myself and although I don't want you to be hopeful I don't think right now is the best time to do this as it seems so final.I feel like I need more time to sort through my feelings and work on myself".

Any thoughts or advice on this?

I do agree with her and it's what I was thinking too. Should I be concerned that she doesn't want me to be hopeful or does that just make sense given what's happened?


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2872697 11/19/19 11:32 PM
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GAL like a madman and do not pursue and only accept some invites.

Jac12 #2873045 11/23/19 01:46 AM
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Update:

I had made the decision that this would be the wknd I go into full toilet training mode for my son. When I told my W the plan and that she would have to be on board with it for her day (sunday) she just kind of expected she'd come and help for all three days. I said that sounds like a plan.

So when she came today she brought her overnight bag and put it in the spare bedroom. Her plan was to crash here tonight (she's at a friends bday party tomorrow night) as it's just easier.

After her nap in the afternoon I told her that I didn't think her staying over was the best idea. I said if she wanted to hang out a bit after he goes to bed I'd be good with that but I thought it was better for my mentality that she didn't stay here until she wanted to stay with me in our bedroom. She respected and understood where I was coming from but I think she was surprised to hear me say that.

Then I said: "If you want to spend some time after our son goes to bed I'd be happy to do that"
W: " Well I'm not sure I want to anymore" (with a laugh)
Me: "Yeah I kind of figured it might put a dent in it, and that's fine but I just think it's better right now this way"
W: "Yeah, I get it. It's no problem."

So then after we put S to bed she came downstairs and I asked her if she was going to stay for a bit. Her response "no I'm going to get going and get a good sleep".

It makes me feel like she may not be coming around as I thought...but maybe she's just upset that I didn't let her stay. I don't know but it would sure feel nice if she decided she wanted to spend time with just me.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873053 11/23/19 04:15 AM
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J,

Come on man! Read your post.

Lots of weak behavior and pressure.

You don’t give a fuch if she sleeps here or doesn’t. You don’t give a fuch if she spends time with you or doesn’t.

Jac12 #2873054 11/23/19 04:21 AM
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Jac,

It seems like you were close to begging her to stay. Why keep asking her to stay after you tell her she couldn't stay over night. You sending her mix messages. Either it's not the right time or you really don't care if she stay, it can't be both and you can't make declarations and then back down.

You applied a lot of pressure for a person that didn't want her to stay overnight.

Onward and upward


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Jac12 #2873072 11/23/19 12:46 PM
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Damn...I didn't see it like that.

I thought I was setting some boundaries for myself (I don't want her staying over if she's in the other bedroom) and I didn't see that as weak behaviour. But at the same time I was open to hanging out with her after he went to bed. I guess I didn't want her thinking she could come and go as she pleases - and looking back if I just let it be we would have enjoyed a nice evening and woke up to look after our son...no big deal.

It's tricky navigating this part of the process...as LH said I need to a point where I don't give a fuch if she spends time with me or not.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873074 11/23/19 01:33 PM
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J,

The really weak part is when you said staying there is bad for your mentality.

You have to be detached and let her come to you at her own pace.

Think of the cat. When a cat is curious he will slowly come up to you and sit on your lap. When you chase a cat it runs.

Look I know it’s not easy but you have a chance here.

Jac12 #2873075 11/23/19 01:40 PM
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It's the truth though - it [censored] having her stay in the other room. We were doing that when this whole thing started and I don't want to do that again. It makes me feel like she's not interested in me and if that's the case I don't want her staying over period.

Then again, her even deciding to stay in our house and spending time with me is a step forward from where we've been.

When does it get easier....thanks LH, Joe


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873087 11/23/19 04:03 PM
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J,

She's not going to jump righ back in your bed and say take me. It doesn't work that way.

I think it was fine for her to stay in the guest room for one night while helping your son potty train. I agree that if she was moved back in that she shouldn't be in the guest room.

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back in the game.

To answer your question. Some people think piecing is harder then going through a divorce so I don't think it will get easier anytime soon.

Jac12 #2873092 11/23/19 05:52 PM
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Make her interested in you:

Primal Instinct of attraction for a woman:
A man that is confident, funny, charming, sexual, charismatic, masculine, unpredictable and socially intelligent.

Talking and displaying these traits. Her attraction is triggered by what he is saying and doing during the interaction. She is not thinking if she is attracted to him, she is feeling it.


Most guys don't know this. Do your research. Learn the pickup artist skills and apply them to your wife.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Jac12 #2873094 11/23/19 06:01 PM
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Jac,

I'm not saying you did anything wrong. And made a bad decision for her to not stay over night or asking her to stay after wards.

My point was your message was confusing. In one statement you telling her she couldn't stay in another one you asking her too stay to chill afterwards. If I was her I would feel confused.

It's doesn't get easier, you just become more knowledgeable, and better in control of self.

The faster you learn how to separate your emotions from you W reactions, the better you are able to deal with each interaction.

Onward and upward


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Jac12 #2873095 11/23/19 06:06 PM
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Thanks guys - I really appreciate the advice and help.

I need to keep these things in mind so I'm not acting on my own emotions.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873327 11/25/19 09:04 PM
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Hi All - I'm kind of feeling like my W is playing me. Maybe it's just the fear talking but I'm a little worried that she' being nice to me and opening up with me so that way I'm "nicer" in any divorce proceedings or legal separation we do.

We spent the weekend toilet training our son and we had a good time. She opened up about some things, had some cries, and I felt like we were connecting more than we have in the past few years.

Here's the thing: it "feels" very genuine but she has yet to say anything specific about her feelings towards me and us, except for apologizing for how she behaved last winter. Is this a red flag this early (her fog has been slowly lifting over the past couple of months)?

I just find myself fighting between trusting what I'm feeling vs. not trusting her motives. That sounds sad to say about someone you married...but it is what it is.

Any thoughts?

I also know I need to detach and GAL more than I'm currently doing...I read over Robx's old posts and I'm nowhere close to where he was mentally.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873564 11/27/19 04:38 PM
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Journal-

I've been back for two weeks and my W was different upon me returning. Sharing more, smiling more and she mentioned her feelings where "changing" and that she didn't know who she was - especially last winter when this all kind of started.

But it feels as though its back to where it was before I went away. She has checked in the last two nights to ask about our son and his toilet training but nothing about me. She hasn't asked to spend any time with me and she hasn't really said anything about her feelings about us.

Her ACTIONS suggest she isn't too interested in me but maybe I'm being too critical and expecting things to move faster if she is coming around. Our interactions are much better than they were and we seem to be getting along great - we even talked a bit about some sex stuff the other night which I'm surprised she opened up about.

I think I need to be patient. As Humble the Poet says: "We can’t see the future, and that simple fact is why we can’t get too excited or worried about a situation; we just have to let it play out.”


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873759 11/28/19 06:22 PM
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update:

After putting our son to bed last night my W stayed for about an hour after and had a glass of wine with me - we chatted about different things but there was no R talk.

She just came by to drop something off and decided to stay for 20 minutes and chat. Had some laughs - again no R talk, just keeping it light.

When she left she asked if her and her mom could come by tonight to see our son. I said that wouldn't be a problem as we would be here.

Obviously these are positive signs just from a better communication standpoint. How patient should I be as far as talking about our actual Relationship...I've flirted a little bit and she's been receptive to that but there is nothing physical going on besides hugs.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2873792 11/29/19 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jac12
How patient should I be as far as talking about our actual Relationship...
Extremely. You listen. vague answers back. "I am not sure". "I need time to process what you have said"

Your job is to understand her. Do not show your cards.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Jac12 #2873962 11/30/19 05:18 PM
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Patience is not waiting for things to happen, it's giving the time to allow things to play out.

My W has been way more friendly...she just accepted a new job and she was asking me to read her responses to make sure it all sounded good in the negotiations (just like old times). She's been more receptive to time spent with me and our son. She doesn't seem as eager to take him out of the house when she's with him and she's even invited me to spend some time with them.

That said...still nothing outside of hugs for now but I feel we are connecting better emotionally than we have for a long time. Will this feed the physical connection to come back??

I'm definitely trying to understand her but unfortunately R2C she's well aware of the cards I'm holding.

I feel like I'm holding on to her saying " I feel like my emotions are changing" (for the better, so we held off on legal stuff) and I want more clarity on what that means.

I guess in time I'll get that....more patience and focus on myself and my son while this plays out. I am dressing better when I'm around her, staying positive, fun, upbeat - engaging with strangers when we are out and generally being friendly.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2874499 12/04/19 12:19 AM
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Exchange with my W over text just now:

I was telling her about our son being a bit difficult at daycare today after she asked how we were doing.

W: Shoot, I wonder what's up. Maybe me seeing him more and then not is confusing or upsetting him (sad face)
Me: I don't know he's also 2. That said, I've been wondering if that's confusing to him as well. Do you have any thoughts on that?
W: Just thought it could be a factor.

I didn't respond after that.

As noted earlier...we've been spending a bit more time as a family over the past 3 weeks but she still hasn't said anything much about us working things out. She's been way better but has a long way to go with her own personal things but she isn't so set on divorce apparently (at least compared to what she was saying 3 months ago).

Advice?


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2874501 12/04/19 12:31 AM
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Validation

Originally Posted by jac12
W: Shoot, I wonder what's up. Maybe me seeing him more and then not is confusing or upsetting him (sad face)

Me: I don't know he's also 2. That said, I've been wondering if that's confusing to him as well. Do you have any thoughts on that?Yeah, it's really hard not knowing what he's thinking or feeling.

I didn't respond after that.

I think no response from now forward is the right choice. Zero pressure.

Last edited by unchien; 12/04/19 12:33 AM.
Jac12 #2874511 12/04/19 01:45 AM
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Dang...yeah, that was a better response Unchien, thank you.

Learning in progress...


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2874512 12/04/19 01:53 AM
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Ha It helps to read other people’s dialogue because I do not practice what I preach &#128578;

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Originally Posted by unchien
Ha It helps to read other people’s dialogue because I do not practice what I preach &#128578;


Good to know... always hard to get perfect real time on the spot when emotions are running high.

Jac12 #2875223 12/08/19 07:11 PM
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As noted above things have been better since I got back from Florida about 3 weeks ago. Tomorrow is also the year anniversary of BD.

But this past week she went 3 full days without reaching out and at least asking how our son is doing...this is similar to how things were before Florida and I just got used to it. But we were talking a bit every day since I got back, usually her initiating. I did invite her to join us Friday at a playdate for our son and she said she may come but then she never even texted to say she wasnt' going to make it.

I did give her a call Thursday morning to check in on how she was feeling (she's been a bit sick) and to see how her new job was working out. I wonder if this made her pull away again.

Anyways - I'm just trying to be aware of what's working and what's not without reading too much into anything. I want to see what her actions show. And right now her actions make me feel like the things she told me a couple of weeks ago weren't genuine. She's yet to start counselling and she certainly isn't asking to spend time with me. However, she is staying for a bit after our son goes to bed on the nights she's here, and that is a new thing since BD. Anyways, Michelle says to look for small signs of thawing and I feel like I've seen some but I'm also worried I'm being played and it is more to do with our son than it is with me.

Am I overreacting to three days?


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
Jac12 #2875227 12/08/19 07:27 PM
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Yes. Keep your expectations tempered.

LH19 #2875245 12/08/19 10:07 PM
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New Thread:

One year in...

Last edited by job; 12/09/19 12:41 AM. Reason: added link to new thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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