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Good advice, that's exactly what I did. We'll see how she responds.

Yes re: worrying about responding to her needs, etc. For me it goes back to this sense of entitlement I get from her. It doesn't bother me in an emotional way anymore (I'm detaching) but I am now noticing it. We are no longer partners but she is wanting to treat me like one when it suits her. I guess, if she was more like "hey, it's going to be really tough for me... I'd appreciate it if... etc." then I'd be more inclined to do something to help her. She complains about how much time she's missed work and, in my head, I'm thinking "hey, that's your choice, live with it". Of course, I instead validate.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
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Originally Posted by crdcheck
Yes re: worrying about responding to her needs, etc. For me it goes back to this sense of entitlement I get from her. It doesn't bother me in an emotional way anymore (I'm detaching) but I am now noticing it. We are no longer partners but she is wanting to treat me like one when it suits her. I guess, if she was more like "hey, it's going to be really tough for me... I'd appreciate it if... etc." then I'd be more inclined to do something to help her. She complains about how much time she's missed work and, in my head, I'm thinking "hey, that's your choice, live with it". Of course, I instead validate.

I'm right there with you, brother.

The endless complaining, how their life is over, how they need you when only when it suits them... it's all very familiar.

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Journal:

Just met W in a conference room (reminder: we work at the same place) to discuss D3's medical care. She's at school today but requires several medications, different activities over the coming week so there was 20 minutes-worth of stuff to cover. I'm feeling down all of a sudden. It's weird, the time at the hospital was fine, almost good, and now I'm feeling down. I just explained to my boss what was going on (there are enough strange goings-on that I finally had to say something). I don't know why, but I feel really sad all of a sudden.

Could also be because it looks like the house I have a contract on may fall through (seller is refusing to fix any of the issues found during the inspection) but honestly, I think that it's just seeing W in this context. And like, we're talking about D3's care and how this is something that would be so much better for D3 (consistent, two people around to back each other up) and so much easier for us... it feels like a huge loss.

She offered to help if I needed it which I politely declined. I also didn't make any small talk, kept it D3-focused. I'm just sad.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
Joined: Jun 2019
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Journal:

This is the first full weekend with just me and D3 and it's a long one. I've been really impressed with her - the nights I've had her she's missed her mom but not been crying, demanding to see her. When I dropped her off at school today (which she loves btw) she wanted me to stay with her, was sad that I had to go to work. That's new and I think it's indicative of us building up our 1:1 relationship. We were supposed to go to my hometown for the weekend but most of the activities there she can't do because she's still recovering from the asthma thing last weekend so we're only going for a night to see some family. Instead she wants a haircut (trim) tomorrow (her ask, not mine... surprised she didn't want to do it with mom), science museum after, then movie night. So, lots to do. Sun/Mon driving to/from hometown.

I guess I shouldn't wonder but I can't help myself - this will be the longest W has gone without seeing D3, what's going to be going on in her mind? Newfound freedom? Anxiety (e.g. "Is H giving D3 the medicine at the right time? What's he feeding her?")? Sadness (missing her)? This is the area where I'm most surprised that she is pulling the trigger on D - I mean, she loves D3 more than anything in the world and she is giving up 50% of her time rather than trying a R/piecing approach and/or considering that she had some responsibility for the MR failing. It is what it is but that's what shocks me so much. Leaving me, sure. Leaving D3? Wow.

I am really enjoying the space away from W. Well, "enjoying" is too strong of a word. What I mean to say is that it's nice to not have to worry so much about what or how I say something will be interpreted by her. Parts are lonely - I didn't imagine that doing solo acts as a couple (e.g. watching TV) was so much more fun than doing them solo.

Mover came on Weds to give a quote. He mentioned that the house was half empty and I told him that I was getting divorced. He said he'd had four divorces (!!!) but was now happily married for 10 years. I was shocked and hopeful... and shocked. I can't imagine going through this again. He only has a kid with one of them so that may make a difference.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
Joined: Jun 2019
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Question: W's birthday is coming up. I don't plan to get her anything (duh) but what about from D3 (i.e. should I get something with D3 to give to her mom)?

Also, I'm the type of person who buys things for people as he sees them and then saves for birthdays/holidays, so I have a couple of books I bought for her dad. Do I give to him or just leave in closet? I'm thinking that I maintain my space but want another opinion.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
Joined: Jun 2019
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Still hoping for some perspective on the above questions. Also a new situation:

I need W to sign a waiver so I can finance my new house. Also need to not file for divorce prior to closing (Sept 26). I haven't mentioned that I'm buying a house (none of her business, until now) and I'm worried how she is going to react, that she might throw a wrench into the gears or try to extort something out of me. That hasn't happened in the past but times are different - between the sense of entitlement she's always had and my newly-implemented unwillingness to bend to her expectations I believe that she's somewhat upset with me (more on that below).

Oh, also, I think that she's spying on me. Any suggestions for how to deal with it? She texted me about something this weekend that the only ways she could have known would have been if she was in my email (but none of her devices show in the record), my credit card (but I don't think that she has the password, I changed regardless), or had stopped by "our" house (and went through my receipts I had in my closet - i.e. no reason for her to be there). I have nothing to hide so I'm not really bothered, it's more curious than anything else.

Journal (for context, can skip):

So, this was a really good weekend, had D3 from Thursday through tomorrow 8 AM (swap at school). Lots of activities though had to adjust given the need to keep her inside and less active after the asthma scare the weekend before. D3 didn't ask about her mom even once. She mentioned in passing that "I have two houses, mom's is the girls' house!" but nothing like "I miss mom". I was really impressed and I feel like that is indicative of the relationship I've built with her. I was also proud that I took her a trip without any assistance from anyone else. W and my MIL always helped to pack and such which was appreciated, but I also think that they didn't think I could handle it on my own. I did it with flying colors.

End journal:

So, W was mad, though, when on Sun she texted me to ask to facetime D3 saying that this is the longest she'd ever gone without seeing her. If D3 asks to see her mom I will absolutely make that happen but if she's in good spirits then I see it as a risk to do it since, in the past, she's gotten upset when saying goodbye. Furthermore, this is D3's time with me and my family (her grandparents, cousins, etc.). I don't see why I should take her time away from them to video chat with someone she's not asking about. To me this seems selfish. W sees it differently, that she made sure to video chat with me when she took D3 to her hometown in May (but that was before W left the house) and that I'd spent time with her last weekend (at the hospital). Again, I will never keep D3 from her parents but I don't feel that I should have to encourage it, either. Thoughts?


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
Joined: May 2019
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crdcheck -

For your W's birthday, I would absolutely get her something from D3. I think it would be callous not to. I would not give the stuff to her dad though.

For the house... like it or not your W has some leverage because you need something from her. Extortion is a strong term, consider it a negotiation where she has leverage, and then consider how you want to proceed with the negotiation.

For the spying... hard to answer without knowing more info. If you think it's unrealistic that she had access to your e-mail, credit cards, or receipts, could there be another reason she might know this information? Or could she just be bluffing?

For the video chats (and this is where I may run counter to DB advice) - I also prefer to respect each others' time with the kids. However, we have an agreement right now that the parent without the kids can ask to do a quick video chat once a day. When the kids are with me, I get a little annoyed, but when they aren't with me, I love chatting with them. Long-term, if we D, obviously this would have to tail off. For now I look at this as a good way to keep our young children connected to both of us during a transition that must be hard on them. So far these chats have been limited to 5-10 minutes most nights so it is not particularly disruptive. Sometimes the kids are bored. Obviously you are in a different situation than me -- I would suggest taking some time to think what is best for D3, even if she is not directly asking for it, and then go with that.

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Originally Posted by unchien

For your W's birthday, I would absolutely get her something from D3. I think it would be callous not to. I would not give the stuff to her dad though.

I was thinking the same but I'm biased toward being nice to her so wanted to be sure.
Originally Posted by unchien

For the spying... hard to answer without knowing more info. If you think it's unrealistic that she had access to your e-mail, credit cards, or receipts, could there be another reason she might know this information? Or could she just be bluffing?

I am certain that she knew what she was saying, and she has access to everything, technically, since she still has a key to our house (it's ours after all). It's either the receipts I left on a dresser (next to keys, random pocket stuff) or email. Everything else would require knowledge of a random password and we don't share those (I mean, as part of my rebuilding trust I would share anything, but she didn't ask for those). When she texted me about the thing she knew (related to D3), I acknowledged the event and then asked her how she knew. She didn't reply and I didn't follow up.
Originally Posted by unchien

For the video chats (and this is where I may run counter to DB advice) - I also prefer to respect each others' time with the kids. However, we have an agreement right now that the parent without the kids can ask to do a quick video chat once a day. When the kids are with me, I get a little annoyed, but when they aren't with me, I love chatting with them. Long-term, if we D, obviously this would have to tail off. For now I look at this as a good way to keep our young children connected to both of us during a transition that must be hard on them. So far these chats have been limited to 5-10 minutes most nights so it is not particularly disruptive. Sometimes the kids are bored. Obviously you are in a different situation than me -- I would suggest taking some time to think what is best for D3, even if she is not directly asking for it, and then go with that.

Yeah, that's one way to look at it, and I can definitely see what you are saying. If I felt that it was in D3's best interests I wouldn't hesitate, but I also don't want this to be a form of cake eating. D3 moved half of her stuff out, had D3 living with her before her bed even arrived so she had to sleep in mom's bed... as far as I can tell, this is all about W and her wants rather than D3's. Having said that, if I ask D3 every day if she wants to talk with W and some days she does, others she doesn't (e.g. yesterday she didn't want to because she'd spoken with her on Sunday) what's the loss to me? If she ends the calls upset then I can always change my approach. Alright, you helped me talk myself into it - I need to remind D3 that she has the option to talk w/ her mother.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
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Originally Posted by crdcheck
Having said that, if I ask D3 every day if she wants to talk with W and some days she does, others she doesn't (e.g. yesterday she didn't want to because she'd spoken with her on Sunday) what's the loss to me? If she ends the calls upset then I can always change my approach. Alright, you helped me talk myself into it - I need to remind D3 that she has the option to talk w/ her mother.

I think the key here is don't do it just because your W will get upset if you don't.

For me, cake-eating or not, I don't mind the 5-10 minute call for now. Mostly because I get it reciprocated and I really enjoy it. Maybe we are both cake-eating by playing family or whatever. So be it. Our kids are young, this is a hard adjustment, and I'm not about to go 10 days between talking with them.

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Well, that went sideways quickly. W just texted to let me know that she was picking up D3 from school even though it is my night. She said that we agreed to "swap" days after long weekends (so, since I had Fri-Mon, she would get Tues which D3's night w/ me). I immediately checked the agreement from the mediator and that's not there. W asked that I call which I did, and she is certain that there was conversation about it. Frankly, she might be right but I don't recall it - those are stressful sessions and there is a lot to discuss. That's why I ask for the notes. So, W is sitting in the car waiting to hear back from the mediator's office as to what the notes actually say. Meanwhile...

W starts in on me saying that I've gone back on my promise to act like friends, do things together, that I won't even have a conversation with her. It went something like this:

W: You won't say more than a few words to me.
Me: I'm sorry that you feel that way
W: It's not what we discussed, you said we were going to be friends and do things as a family
Me: I hear you, you thought that we would continue as a family and you're not getting that
W: Stop saying "I hear you", it doesn't solve the problem, what are you going to do?
Me: I get where you are coming from, I'm moving on with my life [NOTE: this is where I sort of lock up, like she's right, I'm avoiding confrontation]
W: What does that even mean? That you can't talk to me about random things when we are in the room together with D3? I want D3 to have a normal childhood with parents and this isn't conducive to that
Me: I'm sorry that you are upset by this, I get it that it's not what you expected. I have D3's best interests at heart and things between the two of us are going really well.
W: You think that it's in D3's best interests that we don't talk at all?
[rinse and repeat a few times from above]
Me: I'm moving on with my life [in another "rinse and repeat" I actually said that I was "detaching"] and this is part of the process, I'm sorry that you aren't happy with it
W: Then tell me about this "process" so I can align to it
Me: I'm managing myself just fine, and I get that it's not what you expected, I'm not in the position to give you any advice, though
W: I'm not looking for advice, I want what's in D3's best interests ... (same as above)
Me: I'm establishing a boundary here, I'm at work and I don't have anything to add to this conversation that has not already been said
W: [more of above]
Me: [continues to engage - shouldn't have but was trying to not just hang up]
W: [more]
Me: Ok, I hear you, have you heard from the mediator yet (re: custody swap thing)?
W: No
Me: Ok, I'm going back to work, let me know what you hear. Bye.
W: ...
Me: [hang up]

I'll tell you, I haven't experienced fear like I did above. She is calling me out for the validation piece, absolutely hates it. Kept goading me to disagree with her. I don't know if I should not have said that I was detaching but it's a real struggle to not share my perspective (and to not pull in other stuff like the spying or all the fun I had with D3 this weekend without her). I don't know if I should be proud or sad.

Epilogue - she was right and I was wrong. The swap day thing was real. It just wasn't in the notes I was sent by the mediator. I didn't dig my heals in so no issues there but I'm sure that W is going to be telling everyone who will listen that I can't even remember a conversation and that I'm keeping D3 from her. I know that the divorce is going through and so I shouldn't be concerned about things getting worse but I can't tell you how much anxiety I have at this very moment. And it pains me so much that she has this bs view that I'm a bad father and is telling everyone that, people who may then be poisoning D3. Probably part of my NGS, too - I hate being disliked. Ugh, this is not how I thought my day would go.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
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