M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
You can tell us that all day long. I don't think I believe you.
Anyway, You should be willing to do anything, just don't tell her this. You should do what works, not what you feel like doing. From what I understand, "setting her free" is most effective way.
Hey, I did include "or at least dormant" after that
What leads you to not believe me?
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
W texted me Fri to ask me to take D to swimming on Saturday (it's W's weekend w/ D). Reason is that D3's furniture was being delivered to W's new place. So, it wasn't a "do you want to spend some time w/ D3, three days apart is a long time" question, it was to help her. I rejected out of hand, just said "I can't, I have a conflict". I did have a conflict but it wasn't critical (exercise workshop - training on a piece of equipment I own).
Continuing to move forward on the new house, had the inspection today. Went out way too late with friends last night - dinner, concert (rooftop, amazing view), bar across from my new house, then midnight pancakes... lot of fun (bit slow in the morning, ha). At least the last two parts would not have happened w/ W no matter what (she's been a real stick in the mud for years). It was actually kind of funny - when I was searching my email for the tickets for the concert I found the note I'd set her saying that I bought them and that she should look at some of the other bands at the venue because it was pretty cool. No response. That was one week before she announced the D. Made me think about how much time and effort I have put in over the years to entertain her and how little she's done in return - left to her own devices she would just sit at home watching TV. And god help you if you get her somewhere she doesn't enjoy - she doesn't find a way to enjoy it. Anyway, this is not about bad-mouthing W, it's more to say that, while I would like to R, part of me... well... part of me is excited to be free again. That part is also a little resentful of the lack of recognition over the years and then to get the boot. Anyway.
Also announced to W that I would be taking D3 to my hometown next weekend. No "if it's ok with you" etc. And if anyone is wondering, we did agree to let each other know when we are taking D3 out of town - this wasn't a social message.
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
You need to change your mindset and start to think about what YOU would need from HER to consider reconciliation.
Yeah, this is a tough one. I mean, as you can see in the journal above, I really value going out with friends, having fun. But the R is more than that and kind of tough to put into words. I mean, I haven't felt respected, liked, or loved in years and we've talked about that... I think that she's so angry that, even when she recognizes her role in our s*** marriage it's trumped by the anger so she can't change. If she texted me right now to say that she's having second thoughts I don't know what I would do. Say we need to see the MC? Give her a list of broad (e.g. "treat me with respect") or specific (e.g. "I want to go out at least once a week") demands? If it were right this moment I would probably tell her that I need more time and space before I can talk about reconciliation but that I would be willing to listen to what she's proposing (then validate, validate, validate...). Fast forward 3-6 months, if she asked about reconciling... yeah, what do I say? Probably an academic question
Look, here's the thing - I just want to be loved and accepted for who I am, to be able to be vulnerable with her. I would trade a lot for that and, while I can get it from others, I can't get my family with anyone else. So, if she said that she could do that, was willing to work on her contributions to the s***iness of the MR, and would drop the history then I'd be happy to give it a shot. Probably not the right approach...
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
You don't need to tell your W a list of demands. And if she satisfied all those overnight, you wouldn't just accept her back. Just as you cannot earn back trust overnight, she cannot earn you back overnight. Funny how that works, right?
But the point is you can have those things in your mind, and look for change over time.
Look at the last paragraph of your post -- as soon as you think about what you would need to see change, you start to embrace your own needs:
This was a tough weekend. W had D3 which was planned, no issues (sad dropping her off at school on Fri knowing I wouldn't see her until Tues). Went out with friends Friday (stayed out too late), Saturday was a recovery, workout, and work day (had to catch up on some items from the week). Made myself a nice dinner on Sat, all good. Got a call from W 3:30 AM Sun that she was taking D3 to the ER, breathing issues. She said that I didn't have to come but of course I did. D3 has had a cold for the past two weeks that has turned into asthma or something else, hospital decided to admit her to be able to give regular treatments. She'll be fine. Once I realized we'd be at the hospital all day I went home to grab some books for D3 and a couple of small toys as gifts (we keep them around for mini special occasions). Honestly, D3 had a great day - lots of TV and toys, she was pretty ok (if a little short-tempered due to lack of sleep).
I struggled a bit with how to interact with W and I have a feeling that you all will tell me that I could have handled myself better. Everything was pleasant but W was in friend-mode, asking about what I was up to on Fri ("oh, you went to a concert? Was that with your brother and so-and-so?") and I couldn't help but to be friendly back. We got talking about work stuff - she was bragging about something which kind of annoyed me but I kept myself positive. Overall, it was really cordial.
Non-Journal: Areas where I question myself include getting her coffee (I mean, someone had to stay in the room w/ D3) and not being more "mysterious" re: activities (I can say that I didn't want there to be awkwardness in front of D3 but is that just an excuse). I do think that I did well by not offering to walk what is now her dog, getting her stuff from her place, asking if she wanted anything while I made my run home, offering to stay with D3 today so she could go to work, etc. Those would have all been my natural inclination (and I probably would have offered any friend the same).
Back to Journal: On an annoying note, her parents drove in and her dad still basically won't look at me. I guess I'm not really annoyed at this point; it's more a mix of amusement, dismissiveness, and sadness. Once they arrived I left - it is W's weekend with D3 anyway and three adults is plenty. W did say that situations like this supersede custody (which I agree with) but, given that D3 was getting plenty of care and attention, I felt no need to hang out and risk weirdness.
Odd thing - W and I have a mutual friend who was close with both but closer with W. We actually took two vacations together. Friend lives one block from the hospital and was going to stop by to bring lunch but supposedly decided not to when she learned that W's parents were on the way. It's really strange because she's been close with all of us (including D3) so I can't help but to think that W has poisoned this relationship. I've intentionally given space to friend because I assume that W is using her for support but I planned to reach out once D is finalized. Anyway, odd.
D3 will be discharged later today and going to W's house. I will send flowers over. I'd visit but I am trying to respect the custody arrangement and, if D3 isn't asking for me, I don't want to intrude (I don't want W just showing up on my days so I am setting precedent).
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
It's good that you're being reasonable and amicable especially with regard to your kids. I think cordial but not aloof or cold works.
Yes definitely reach out ot your mutual friend. It would be a shame if your relationship with them has soured. Hopefully it is fine and they can be friends with both of you, though I understand it's hard for them as well - being used to hanging out with you as a couple and for that to suddenly stop is difficult for all involved.
I'd say keep respecting the custody and keep doing what you're doing, which is being totally approachable and non-aggressive.
Me - 36, W - 32 No kids T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr Discovery - 14 May 2019 S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019 D & House sale final - Feb 2020
1. I agree on giving mutual friends some space. No point making these situations further entangled with anyone taking sides. If they take your W's side, well, so be it, then they aren't the best friends for you.
2. I also take great strides to respect the custody arrangement. Note that this will probably get misinterpreted as a negative thing. And even though you think you are setting precedent, your W may completely ignore it.
First when you don't have D3, your W may accuse you of showing lack of interest. Second when you do have D3, if you set boundaries about your W infringing on your time, she may get upset. Stick to your principles, but don't expect her to follow how you are handling things.
First when you don't have D3, your W may accuse you of showing lack of interest. Second when you do have D3, if you set boundaries about your W infringing on your time, she may get upset. Stick to your principles, but don't expect her to follow how you are handling things.
Yep, I'm mentally preparing myself for this. I'm sure that W was surprised and unimpressed that I went to dinner with friends after leaving leaving her and D3 at the hospital (long after the doctors determined that she was completely stable and just wanted to observe her, and after her parents arrived). And I'm fairly certain that, if it were D3's days with me that W would insist on being there the entire time (part of her martyrdom syndrome). Seems like a bridge we'll just have to cross.
New question: Our house is under contract, scheduled to close mid-September. Buyer found an issue during inspection that he wants remediated. It will take 2-3 days and the expectation is that someone is in the house the entire time. W wants me to take more than 50% of the time. If we were married it would be totally fair to split and I would be happy to rearrange my work schedule (in fact, I would be willing to do more as W's role is more demanding than mine at the moment... probably an example of my NGS but that's another topic). At this point, though, I feel like the house sale is part of the divorce which therefore is hers to manage. I'll also add that she's not asking me to be there, she's telling me: "We'll need to work out between you, me, and the realtor who can be there when." followed by the days/times she can be there, no question about my availability, "please", etc. How should I address?
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
New question: Our house is under contract, scheduled to close mid-September. Buyer found an issue during inspection that he wants remediated. It will take 2-3 days and the expectation is that someone is in the house the entire time. W wants me to take more than 50% of the time. If we were married it would be totally fair to split and I would be happy to rearrange my work schedule (in fact, I would be willing to do more as W's role is more demanding than mine at the moment... probably an example of my NGS but that's another topic). At this point, though, I feel like the house sale is part of the divorce which therefore is hers to manage. I'll also add that she's not asking me to be there, she's telling me: "We'll need to work out between you, me, and the realtor who can be there when." followed by the days/times she can be there, no question about my availability, "please", etc. How should I address?
You sound worried about responding to her needs, whether she says please, how you feel about what she should be doing, etc. Step back and reconnect with what you want to do.
First of all, I would consider helping out here. I don't think "Let them do all the work" applies to every single situation. It's okay to be reasonable.
However... ignore her days and times. Let her know when you are available, and what works for you. Then you can negotiate something. If you start off by trying to negotiate something that accommodates her, you have already compromised yourself.
Wife: A works for me. You: B works for me. Wife and You: <work out something that is neither A nor B, but kinda works for both of you>
it's a great opportunity to stand up for yourself AND show you can work together with her AND not get sucked into her emotional whirlwind.
