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A Message from Michele
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Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861731
08/17/19 01:32 PM
08/17/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,331
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uRworthy Offline
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uRworthy  Offline
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Hey Mach!!! Love what you wrote as always.

G, my sweet friend. I love you and your big heart and I am so sorry it is hurting right now.

So often I wanted to write to you to tell you what I saw...but you needed to see it for yourself or it wouldn't matter.

You should not have to feel anything but cherished when you are loved. You shouldn't have to worry and wonder about whether you should have said or done something . You shouldn't have to want someone to want to be with you.

The reason you shouldn't is because of who you are.

I think M loved you as best he could. But it simply wasn't enough for you. As that is ok. To want something more...something deeper...something more real.

I saw pretty early on that he had issues. But I know you...you have to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

I am going to say this...until you truly know, in the deepest part of your heart and head and soul, how worthy you are...this is going to keep happening.

Because when you truly know that...you will not accept whatever anyone offers.

I see you analyzing what he said and did and are trying to find answers. It's ok for a little while. But the truth is that it doesnt really matter why he did it. It didnt have anything to do with you. Not really.

So be careful not to take on his stuff. That's all his.

And use this as a way to look deeper inside, G.

Because you go all in...and that is ok...if the other person deserves that. He clearly didnt.

Be good with you. That's the key here. And I mean really good. We people pleasers need to find a way to take care of us, too. We matter.

I know you will be ok. And I know in time you will really believe the words you wrote.

It's the only way forward, sweetie.

Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861737
08/17/19 02:19 PM
08/17/19 02:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
B
bttrfly Offline
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bttrfly  Offline
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Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
^^ yes, Andrew and Ginger you are both going to be ok. better than ok. You're already ok. You're going to be fabulous xoxox even more so than you already are.

xoxoxoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861739
08/17/19 02:21 PM
08/17/19 02:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline
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bttrfly  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
what URWorthy said. Amen to that. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861745
08/17/19 03:05 PM
08/17/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,852
Right where I need to be
F
Fogg Offline
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Fogg  Offline
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Right where I need to be
Ginger,

I'm so sorry things ended, I know you were really hoping he would be a long term R. As others have said, this is really about him and not you. Like Don. I think I'm likely similar to M in a sense, I'm just not dating now so I dont run into these situations. My kids, work and school are the priority for now and I dont see me making room for anyone else anytime soon. I know many here seem to be attacking him but I'd play devils advocate and point out another really important point, he said from the beginning he wasnt ready for a full R and tried to see where things went. The truth was he wasnt, he said as much. Sometimes we just have to listen to what people say and not what we want to hear. He definitely made some bad choices going along though.

I don't think M was ready for a committed relationship, I think he tried but hes not in the same place you are wheres hes capable. I dont think he set out to intentionally hurt you nor do I think he didnt love you, hes just ready for something that's long lasting. I think where me and him differ would be on how we use the term "I love you" and introducing kids i do think he had the feelings of love for you and bonded with you. To me those words have a very different meaning than when I was with my Ex, I really see them as something that happens long after the feeling of love has began and where it become a choice of I'm choosing a person for a much longer period. I wouldnt introduce kids until I hit that point, which I know wouldn't happen for alone a year. Hes had he feelings of love but due to his situation hes not able to choose the long term yet. I think on some level you knew that but hoped differently. I can see why you would feel duped but I dont think that was his intention, I think things just fell together with you two, he had the feelings of love develop and he worked to try to get to that long last place of choosing because he really doesnt know any better. At some point realized he cant (which had nothing to do with you). I dont see it being another woman either.

In any event, I'm sorry you're feeling this pain, I'd hope you can look at what you two and and keep the positives in mind and try not to let the negatives overshadow it all.


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861748
08/17/19 03:14 PM
08/17/19 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,892
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kml Offline
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Again I ask - did he show any signs of Aspergers? You weren't asking for anything huge, just clueing him in that you needed his support when you asked for it the previous day. Actually, even an Aspie would have probably responded positively to such a direct request.

You didn't ask for too much nor did you do it in such a way that should have scared any normal person off. He's got some kind of issue with intimacy and although he could do a really good imitation for short periods of time, he couldn't sustain it.

Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861753
08/17/19 03:28 PM
08/17/19 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,933
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Ginger1 Online OP
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Ginger1  Online OP
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KML, to answer your question.... no. No sign of aspergers. I always said his brain was interesting though. The way he thinks is ..... I canít explain. It was intriguing though. He is very analytical but is emotionally intelligent. But I do think his divorce damaged him. He never worked through the actual feelings of his wife leaving him and leaving the way he did. He never spoke of those feelings. Only how he felt about his son. He lives by anticipating her next psycho move and is always prepared. I donít think he ever properly grieved the loss of his wif. I tried to get him to talk about it but it always circled back to the technical battle part of it.

I think a part of the fall of his M was his inability to be truly intimate. And I asked him Sunday when he was showing me pics of his house he built why he bought it in the time his wife was pregnant. Itís a stressful time to take on such a huge project. He argued of course he wanted a good place to live for his son.... of course.... but Iím sure his wife was non-existent to him when he was working day and night building his house. He gets hyper focused on projects and always keeps busy with something . Just like he has to always keep his kid busy and burnt out doing something.he doesnít let his kid just sit with himself. And when heís not........heís pretty darn high on pot. I am pro marijauana. Recreational and medical. But he is pretty much high majority of the time. He is very educated on it, but he likes to be high all the time. He chooses his vacation spots to pass through somewhere pot legal. I think it might be his way of truly sitting with everything thatís happened. Heís a very functional adult, but I think it helps him to avoid the super painful stuff. He drinks some beer, but doesnít touch hard liquor or get drunk because his dad was an alcoholic.

He lives with a woman before his ex too. Never got details on it. Obviously, it ended.

Heís holding back. Heís got a lot inside. I think heís scared to deal with it or show it.

Thatís only my guess. I can speculate all day long. But this is what I saw.

Iím getting to your post IR... because wow

Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861755
08/17/19 03:46 PM
08/17/19 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,933
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Ginger1 Online OP
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Ginger1  Online OP
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Posts: 3,933
UR.... as per usual, you nailed it and got down to the core. I need to believe what I say. And I think I am moving this the process a lot faster this time is because Iím believing it. I knew it all along, but I allowed him to make me think I might be too much. There was the angel on my shoulder telling me that I am not asking for much and that I shouldnít need to ask what I was asking for. The devil on my shoulder said ďyou are being too much, be happy with what you get!Ē

But I really think I know it . I keep reading my post over and over truly believing it. And I need to remember the next time Iím in an R and it isnít working for me. I need to not let my self doubt creep in.

And yeah. I could speculate all day as to why he did this. And it could be as simple as I wasnít the one and he just didnít feel it.

It doesnít matter why. It matters ithat itís over, Iím moving on and it was HIM, not me.

Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861767
08/17/19 06:45 PM
08/17/19 06:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,556
Midwest
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DonH Offline
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Wow, just so, so, so many good posts here. Seems like the good ole days again - sorry it's come about after your breakup Ginger. You do sound very good - I have to say. Perhaps that tells you something right there.

As I said both publicly here and privately to you, I do see parts of me within M. However, one aspect that clearly is not me is the things he said and did. I have nearly always taken huge steps to not lead someone on - likely to my peril as no doubt they may have lost interest or had more reason to move on due to my honesty. But I would never have given all of the ILY's and bonus mom and such if I was feeling as M evidently was. What is up with that? That's even more perplexing but sadly I've seen it so many times before - including first hand. People make these grand statements of ILY forever and future and how lucky only to turn it on a dime. How can you trust people - well for me, and granted I'm over 15 years ahead of you, I often don't trust.

Andrew posted that there are a lot of parallels and similarities between the two of you and what happened. At first I didn't see it, but I'm very much starting to. What I see first and foremost is how, now, now after both of you had the other person abruptly break up, now is when many here started to speak truthfully. Why is that? Why did it take the other person leaving? Clearly it's much easier to see things in hindsight. It's much easier to see now that Google or Microsoft or Apple were going to be huge stocks but difficult before they actually were. Same with crashes in the market. It's so easy now to look back and see the tech bubble of 2000 but few saw it then. After the fact we all said we should have gotten out sooner. Is that what happened here? Or did many of us have feelings, gut or otherwise, that both M and B were not the right fit but we didn't want to rain on Ginger or Andrews parade? If not, why not say it sooner? If many of us thought this all along, why did we keep quiet? That's not what this place is for. That said, another similarity and one pointed out by a few already is both Andrew and Ginger didn't really want to hear it or would not believe it or would have excuses for it if we did say anything. I think that's human nature. But another piece to things.

In your case Ginger I think you want it so badly that you in part talked yourself into it. It was far too painful to think that the guy you thought was a better R than any other in your life was really not. I mean who wants to think that? And you thought if you just gave him time he'd come around. Thing is, at least with me, that would be the case. I do come around in time. I even moved the line with Wild Girl. It just takes me much longer than the typical person. So your thoughts of waiting are not unfounded.

On another topic:

Originally Posted by Ginger1
........heís pretty darn high on pot. I am pro marijuana. Recreational and medical. But he is pretty much high majority of the time. He is very educated on it, but he likes to be high all the time. He chooses his vacation spots to pass through somewhere pot legal.


I think this is a big red flag and also may be somewhat telling. What is he escaping? He's clearly self-medicating for something. Often daily pot smokers are not motivated at all, that's not the case with M, making me wonder if he's not ADHD, has huge anxiety or something that he needs to self medicate to calm down and "feel normal." There is also a strong correlation to drug use and not being social. It's a very common sign when people pull away from friends and family they may be doing it to be alone with their drugs. He can't really do that on a date or places with his kid. He's getting away from you to be with his drug. Trust me, I did this ALL THE TIME and from EVERYONE.

Some of you here know I have a huge, personal understanding about drug use. I'm not at all against medical marijuana. Just as I'm not against morphine, or percocet or whatever opiate/opioid but we also see where over-use and daily use of that has taken our world. Thankfully pot doesn't not cause 150 deaths a day but it can be very damaging. Recreational use is one thing but regardless of the drug, drinking a six or 12 pack or bottle of wine a day is not recreational. Smoking pot and being "high all the time" is not recreational. As a medical professional Ginger I urge you to re-think this. I have no doubt most of your thoughts come from your parents and upbringing. It's again normal and natural to believe that what we grew up with and our parents did/do is normal, right and healthy. That's not always the case. While I'm far less pro recreational than I am medical - true medical need - I also don't think smoking once or twice a week and for sure a month, is going to be damaging. But there is no way you are going to convince me and many others in the know that daily drug use including pot use, in the absence of a true medical need and for years on end is healthy. It's simply not. I have no doubt, none, zero, that M's drug use is part of what's going on with him. It's part of this picture. He's trying to escape something he's not willing to face.

Beyond all though I envy how well you are taking this - at least from what I can see from many states away. I think you are handling this extremely well - better than I would, I'm sure. And you are already learning from it. Wow, I'm in awe! I hope this lasts for you. Yes, it would have been better to figure it out six months ago, but really, you still had some great times and it's not like you lost time with some other guy or something or chose M over another guy. Six months is a very, very reasonable time to try someone out - and a year is not that far off. The real "sin" would have been doing this and feeling the way you have been for years. However, that too is another simultaneity with you and Andrew - had M and B not broken things up, you'd both be head over heals and continuing on the paths that you now see were lined with weeds and poison ivy on the way to a dead end. Still, I think you have come so far from only a few years ago. I hope you are proud of who you are Ginger! I know many of us here are.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861771
08/17/19 09:59 PM
08/17/19 09:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,331
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uRworthy Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,331
Hi Don... very interesting post.

I do want say something.. I know G in RL. I think you do, too, right?

And knowing her as I do, I knew that my saying something before this would not have made a difference.
Not because she doesnt respect me, because I know she does. But because G has a very strong mindset. She was just not in place to be able to hear what I had to say. Not this time.

I felt strongly that she had to figure this out for herself. That if she didnt, she would doubt herself and spin and wonder what she did wrong.

She wanted to do something different this time and she did in a lot of ways. I felt it was important for her to walk this in a different way, too.

G, you know how we all feel about you. You are truly lucky to have such an amazing tribe both here and IRL. Speaks
volumes about who you are.

Re: Clearly havenít figured it out [Re: Ginger1] #2861774
08/17/19 10:24 PM
08/17/19 10:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,933
G
Ginger1 Online OP
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Ginger1  Online OP
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,933
Fogg...... I didnít see your post! Thanks for stopping by and I think you are absolutely right. I think he tried. Saying the right things was his way of fooling himself. And commitment sounded ideal for him. Just the other night he said he wouldnít do a coffee date because that shows fear of commitment. But commitment is on his terms. He canít go that far. I donít blame him totally. I feel kind of bad that I was the one he had to realize this with. He dated 3 women before me and none were as serious.i did believe that he wanted to serious with me. Every card he got me she wrote ďI canít wait to spend many more birthdays with youĒ he told me he was in it for the long run. You donít say that unless you mean it.

Don- thank you. I am handling this surprisingly well. I am kind of shocked, actually. The only time the tears start coming is when I think about his son. God, I loved that little boy. And he loved me. And when he comes home from vacation I know heís going to ask about me and my daughter. And Iím scared what he will say. And my heart breaks I canít say goodbye and Iím sorry. It is breaking my heart immensely. Thatís where I break down. I know he will get over it, but the initial part breaks my heart. I hate M for this.

In the end, I think I had one foot out the door myself. The foot was in due to his way to keep me satisfied for the being and our children . He couldnít give me what I need. And we had a whole debate about needs vs. wants. And yes, the excessive pot usage is his escape.

Iím going to be ok. It wasnít working for me. I felt lonely in the relationship. I didnít feel cherished. I felt insignificant.

Iím seriously surprised at how well I am doing. I am kind of shocked myself . And afraid grief is going to come out of. O where and knock the wind out of me

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