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A Message from Michele
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Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2861968
08/19/19 07:16 PM
08/19/19 07:16 PM
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Ready2Change Offline
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Quote
I've always been a soft, slow talker, so I've continued with that too.
Slow is good. Deeper is good. Louder is good. Alpha traits.


Being able to project your voice (when needed) is a good skill to have/ learn.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2862004
08/19/19 10:48 PM
08/19/19 10:48 PM
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unchien Offline
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OK as a beta-in-recovery... don't think of it like "I should become an alpha because that's what people say women want."

Become an alpha (or whatever you want to call it) because you will be in charge of your own happiness. Someone who is confident, assertive, and attractive. Someone who commands respect from others, but also holds himself to high standards. You will be the captain of your own ship.

Report back after you read NMMNG. If it doesn't read like an autobiography I will be surprised.


M: 11, T: 15
S7, D5, D3
MC1: 09/2018-01/2019
BD: 06/12/19
MC2: 06/12/19-??
S: 06/29/19-??
Re: A parallel universe [Re: Ready2Change] #2862013
08/20/19 12:17 AM
08/20/19 12:17 AM
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DS9 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by LH19
Yeah pretty much every guy on here lol.


Yeah, you're right. I read a lot of Gekko's sitch, and it seems there's parallels with his XW and mine. Thanks again for the book suggestion too.

With the respect issue (lack thereof), that popped up a few times in the M, mainly with my step kids. There was little consistency, and the XW's view was respect is earned, not automatic. She made it clear on lots off occasions she felt trapped in the middle. I read here about 'covert contracts' - it resonated, because I think I grew resentful sometimes that my expectations weren't being met, which snowballed sometimes.

In the current reality, I think you're very right about the respect issue being the one angle I can push for in terms of being the 'alpha' male. I'm thinking this will include taking a lot of time to answer sms', calls etc from the wife, and being firm but polite and calm if we discuss and disagree, then walking away if the XW escalates, saying something like "this discussion is becoming unproductive and we'll table another time and date to continue it" or "the way you're speaking to me is unacceptable to me, I'm leaving blah blah'. This is going to be tough!

I think one of my alpha characteristics was my ferocious approach to anyone outside the family trying to get one up on us. A few months ago the XW called me in a panic as a tradesman was trying to rip her off. I think for the first time I'd known her she asked me 'what do I do'. She relayed the sitch (the old we want more money and if you dont pay we're going to keep driving in front of your house) and I went into my cold business mode and suggested what I would do, but it was up to her. Problems continued so I spoke to the tradie very forcefully and ended up meeting him at her house, telling XW to stay in the yard til I sorted him out, which I did, then reported the outcome to the XW, and left. I reckon these types of things will pop up again and she may contact me to be the enforcer because I was the one who 99% of the time dealt with these people.

My question too is, is this an alpha characteristic in the sense discussed here, and if so do I continue in that role. Or, is this just another example of the XW has fired me as H now its her problem and the extent of my involvement is to validate her frustrations at getting scammed (because her jumping in head first without really thinking is her MO) and/or it's against Sandi's advice to not give advise to the XW even when asked.

My thinking is continue to be the rock steady 'enforcer' that the XW can count on, but not be so available to do it instantly, and be more detached (kind of like a hired consultant). Happy to hear to the contrary from the forum.

I can tell there's going to be lots of moments like these with my step kids too, where I'm called to be the answer/guidance/fix it guy to 'what do I do' and I plan on being there for my step kids regardless.

Thanks again LH19 and any other members who can assist. Kind regds, D


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: A parallel universe [Re: unchien] #2862018
08/20/19 01:02 AM
08/20/19 01:02 AM
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DS9 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Quote
I've always been a soft, slow talker, so I've continued with that too.
Slow is good. Deeper is good. Louder is good. Alpha traits.


Being able to project your voice (when needed) is a good skill to have/ learn.


Thanks R2C. My job actually requires a lot of talking and persuavive language, and I've become pretty good with my speech delivery. In the good times during the M, the XW would often seductively joke with me what a smooth talker I was and how she loved it (pretty much every day during the M I would manage multiple witty covert and classy but sexually charged or romantic comments directed to her, whihc she loved). I've totally erased any overtly seductive tilt or suggestion in my conversation with her since separation. I have lowered the tone of my already deep voice, speak slower and softer around her. XW voice is often very loud, shrill and nasally, so I consciously do all I can to keep my volume low but resonative. Whilst I think in that sitch, lower volume from me is better, I'll try your suggestion of louder is good from me. Thank you.

Speaking of your previous suggestion of seducing her back, which I really liked, many times since separation she has called me 'babe', honey, sweetheart etc in conversation, initially apologising, then the last few times not pulling herself up, though this hasnt occurred for probably 2 months now. At all times, I never reacted or reciprocated as I suspected learned behaviour (we never called each other by name, only babe or hun etc). After separation there was also a bit of brushing up by her against me, touching hands, leg etc, all of which I ignored too. With the passage of more time, if this happens again, I'm thinking maybe react to cute names with a smile and a quick and lighthearted "Yes hun?", and a quick gentle reciprocating brush of my hand on her if she does that to me first? I remember now at the beginning of R she was testing the waters with these things, and I now remember her first ILU was very guarded and testing as she got out of my car after a date. What do you think?

Originally Posted by unchien
OK as a beta-in-recovery... don't think of it like "I should become an alpha because that's what people say women want."

Become an alpha (or whatever you want to call it) because you will be in charge of your own happiness. Someone who is confident, assertive, and attractive. Someone who commands respect from others, but also holds himself to high standards. You will be the captain of your own ship.

Report back after you read NMMNG. If it doesn't read like an autobiography I will be surprised.


Thanks Unchien. Appreciate the wise counsel. Will read and report back!


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2862797
08/26/19 04:44 AM
08/26/19 04:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 170
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DS9 Offline OP
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Hi all,

I was hoping to get some feedback from the forum in relation to a couple of issues which will pop up in the next week or so in respect of parenting arrangements for my 10 yo S, his Bday, my XW's, mine, and broader issues of me standing up for myself.

Parenting -
My XW has been on o'seas holiday the last month with my SD. I have had my son full time accordingly. We have a loose verbal equal care weekabout arrangement, which we agreed to, but which she modified from time to time, usually sending me her work schedule and effectively telling me to work it out. Before she left, she said she wanted to look at changing when she got back, because she reckons she has my S more than I, and that while its great I'm spending all this time improving myself, she is tired, and even thouhg she's looking forward to her holiday she needs a life too. There's always a sting in the tail with anything she says unfortunately. I agreed we would talk when she got back, and validated how busy she's been with everything going on in her life.

The current weekabout works for me and my S. Just after separation, she thought I'd still live with her, and effectively continue to care for my S on weekends or other nights of the week when she was called to work. I told her very ealry in the separation that because of her decision, the new reality was that I wanted weekabout, and am no longer a babysitter every weekend. She didn't like that, and has thrown it back on me every chance she can. We agreed that she would have my S 2 weekends a month, and repeatedly advised she would need to get others to care for him when she worked (she works every weekend and Friday or Monday night). On my week, my XW gets my S from school and has him til I pick him up after work - she suggested this as she didn't want him in care, but recently suggested along the lines that its a big favour she's doing for me

On off weekends, either of us will have our son for a few hours for breakfast or what not, and sometimes during the week for dinner. These 'ad hoc' arrangements are always very cordial in organising - its the more longer term arrangements that become very difficult and sometimes venomous to discuss

Now, I'm thinking when the talk comes, I'll simply state that I'm happy with the current arrangement to continue for the next few months but if she wants to change, to send me an itinerary which I'll consider and come back to her on. Now that my adult SS and SD live with her again, she has 2 care options when she works. I'm just wondering if there's any value in me pointing that out if she goes back to the old chestnut of me having him every weekend and she having him during the week, or, to simply restate what I've previously said to her that this isnt my concern that she needs other people to look after my S when she works (which caused her to blow a fuse).

Bdays -
Her 50th is coming up very very soon. At BD in January, she made a grand gesture and said she was going to have a huge party with all her friends. A couple of months ago, she said it was just going to be a dinner out with a couple of friends and the kids and she invited me - I said maybe. Now I'm wise to the wisdom of this forum, me going is a bad idea. If her friends are going, she has said to me at BD she was sick of bitching about me to her friends, and said later she spoke to her friends and they couldn't believe some of the things I'd said. I'm not sure if it would be sensible to state when declining her party invitation to say I wouldn't be comfortable going knowing her friends would be there and what they think about me? If I just decline and say 'sorry Ive got other plans' she'll likely raise I've known about her bday for months and get angry. I know the forum's wisdom would say who cares what she thinks, so I'm a little torn as I'm still working on expunging my NGS!

I intend a nice gift to her from my son, and nothing from me, other than a short text around midday saying happy bday hope you have a great day.

My bday -
Its a couple of days after my XW, on a weeknight. I haven't said anything about any plans, nor do I intend to. If she asks, I'll just say I have plans, and will also have my S celebrate with me the following weekend, and that I'll invite my SD and SS to come along if they'd like.

Standing up -
I was a 'wussy man'.Very protective of my wife, but very attuned to pleasing her, and not voicing my deeper needs, not pulling her up in a constructive way regarding her behaviopur to me, and going along to get along. I wasn't obsequious, but I did enjoy doing things for her as an expression of my love and having her on a pedestal. I thank the forum for drawing this to my attention. For me, weaning NGS will mainly be about getting my self respect back, ensuring she respects me, and not being so available.

In doing so, I'm thinking in gradual incremental stages, or do I flick the switch, so to speak?. If I get an email at work saying 'can you please print this' or 'can you access my email and check this', if its for her personal benefit and its just more conveneient for her to get me to do it, I'll ignore it. If I get a text that says "D, you need to blah blah' instead of pretending I didn't notice it was like a command, I'll say "Telling me what to do doesnt suit me any more". Thoughts?

Thanks again for any and all feedback. I cant underscore just how contrary to my nature these changes will be and value the support.


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2862869
08/26/19 06:35 PM
08/26/19 06:35 PM
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Ready2Change Offline
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Parenting- 50/50 split is best for the child. Get the "Normal" written and agreed (even if in an email) so that future things are clearer for everyone. Acknowledge that exceptions will happen and you will be flexible. You just want as much notice as possible.



"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2862955
08/27/19 04:53 AM
08/27/19 04:53 AM
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DS9 Offline OP
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Thank you again for your feedback R2C.

I've just been reading up on your suggested scripts in the Boundaries thread too. Very informative and I've made some notes. For guys like me, it's very counter intuitive, but I'm going to trust in the process. I think I was naive in trusting other resources which said don't argue with anything the MLC spouse says and basically go along and let it wash over you.

In a sense too, I rationalised me going along with nearly everything on the basis that if I didn't, the emotional toll on me would be greater - essentially trading space for time.

If you have any thoughts about anything else in my above post, I'd welcome them.

Thanks again mate. Regds, D


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2862963
08/27/19 08:10 AM
08/27/19 08:10 AM
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Posts: 233
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DaB35 Offline
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Weaning yourselff off NGS is tricky to start with - I'm doing the same.

Do it all for you. Be assertive but not aggressive. Be pleasant but not a pushover.

It's hard!


Me - 36
W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr (met 30 October 2010)
M - 3 yr (3 August 2016)
Discovery - 14 May 2019
Sep - 25 May 2019
D bomb - 29 July 2019
Online Papers sent off 18 August 2019
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2862966
08/27/19 08:44 AM
08/27/19 08:44 AM
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DS9 Offline OP
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Thanks Dan appreciate the support mate. The thing I find hard is that it’s my nature and moreso it was one of my ‘qualities’ my wife loved about me, which paradoxically could have ultimately repelled her. I just don’t know.

What was your first example of weaning away from ngs?


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Re: A parallel universe [Re: DS9] #2863044
08/27/19 05:47 PM
08/27/19 05:47 PM
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Posts: 6,458
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Ready2Change Offline
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Originally Posted by DS9
If you have any thoughts about anything else in my above post, I'd welcome them.


As far as HER birthday, if she asks you AGAIN to go, I would strongly conciser accepting the offer. If she hasn't asked by the day before, I would plan on not going. Make sense?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
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