So, it's been a long time since I posted. I don't know why, just life I guess.
Summary: BD was Oct '16 and H finally MO in March '17. The months between were terrible. I can't even describe what it felt like. I was a non-person. I would walk into a room, he would walk out. If we had to be in the same room, he would be as physically far away as possible. If we touched accidentally, he would flinch. If we spoke, it would be with simmering anger and resentment. Nothing but disdain and resentment. And pain. Mine and his. We were still intimate, about the only times we physically touched during those months, but it was always desperate, almost angry and after, the sadness would come in.
Like many here, I wanted to save my marriage. Like many here, I was broken and in no state to save anything other than myself. I gave it a good go anyway. I desperately begged him to stay, then I desperately begged him to come home and in between my periods of begging, I shot anger bombs at him, called him names, hated him.
We have not spoken to him about 'us' since Christmas although we speak almost daily (children and logistics). There are no arguments, but there are also no conversations. Some things have reversed. It is me who walks out of the room, me who stands on the far side of the room, me who walks around him, me who avoids his eyes. His resentment is still there but now there is an unhealthy dose of resentment on my side. We can have a conversation for a bit before his resentment comes out ... passive aggressive judgement filled questions/statements ... so it is easier to not engage. I respond by not responding. There are no more friendly texts, no casual questions regarding "how was your day".
I am no closer to finding closure. There has not been, nor has there ever been, any real discussion of divorce. I am still living in, and paying for the family home. I hear (from the children) that he wants to move into a house around the corner.
Last edited by job; 08/15/1912:45 PM. Reason: added link to previous thread
I spoke in my last post about being broken. I am still broken. I think I always will be. But less broken. The pieces moving about and shifting daily as I work out who it is I am now that I am without him. I do like the person I am becoming though. A few things have changed. I call him my ex instead of my h. I feel single whereas before I felt 'separated'. When I speak to other men, or flirt or whatever, there is no guilt. Not even in retrospect.
The process is a long and hard one. I am finding peace. I still think that he and I are two people who should be together, who love one another. I can see it in his eyes. I know it is where the passive aggressiveness comes from. I know that it is his lack of humility and my stupid pride that stops us from being together.
There was much 'space' when he left. Space that I threw everything at to fill: the gym, going out with friends, dating, pampering, reading books, whatever I could do to stop myself from breaking down. GAL. Absolutely the best thing I could have done. I did the inwards journey too. I found that I am a good person who is worth knowing. The lessons have stuck and I have a life. I wonder if, now that the space has filled, I will ever be willing to make space for another person. That would also take a willingness to make myself vulnerable, and I am not sure that is something I will ever be able to do.
Anyway, this was supposed to be an update on where I am today.
I have just come back from a solo trip to Croatia. It was utterly, mind-blowingly brilliant. I did a solo travellers tour (not a singles tour). We rafted down a river, jumped off waterfalls, went on mammoth hikes, ate lots of really good food, learnt some history and drank a lot (good drinking, not falling over drinking). I met some really interesting people I would not have met otherwise. We shared stories whilst people watching in some of the most beautiful places in Europe. I did not think about my H at all whilst I was away other than to work out if it would be a good time or not to call the girls (they were in Spain with him).
I am taking the girls to Greece next week and he is going away to god knows where. He did not tell me about the second week until 2 days ago. I am annoyed, not because he is going away, not because he didn't tell me but because the burden of childcare falls on me again. I knew it always would - he gave me the schedule at the end of last month, but he didn't say anything about going away. I thought he was working, not going on effing holidays again.
I stopped dating in July. I did not like it. It seemed false. Each time I was out, I knew it wasn't right. Not guilt, just an unwillingness to actually be in a relationship. And I know it's just dating, but isn't it wasting the other person's time if you're heart really isnt' into the process? In any case, if it's just validation I need, I meet enough people normally who give me that validation, and to be honest, I have enough self esteem that I don't really need validation from other people. And if it's just physical intimacy, I don't need to meet someone on an app to do that. I'm a female, I'm relatively attractive and I can carry a conversation, so really, all I need is to be present and willing.
Sorry about long post. I just thought it was time.
I promise to try and be a little less stream of consciousness next time.
FS!!! So glad to see your post and to know you haven’t left us. Your holiday sounds amazing!!! My BIL inherited some property in Croatia (a little place called Tisno) and he and my sister have been there a couple of times. They plan to eventually live there 50% of the time once they (semi) retire. I am traveling there next September with them and another couple who I am friends with. I am hoping to have a travelling partner as well but if it doesn’t work out, I will be happy to be the fifth. .
Your posts are always so introspective. I was hoping that you hadn’t posted in so long because something big had happened (big good not big bad) in your life. I still hold out hope you and your H will reconnect at some point. I also know that if you don’t, you will be just fine. Anyway...bedtime for me. Just wanted to say “hi” and that I am glad you are back. (((HUGS)))
FS, it's nice to see you. I'm glad you said you're not dating because it isn't right for you in this moment, and that you weren't ready to give more. That takes a lot of self awareness to say. It will come in its own time.
One thing I've always found interesting is that you have repeatedly said that you believe you and your "Ex" are not together due to each of your own stubbornness. You don't blame him. Why is that? I think a lot of folks here might say "MLC" or other depression or changes in your ex initiated this process. So why do you feel it's on both of you now? Do you think if you took two steps forward he would also take a step forward?
I'm not sure if that question is clear - but I'm curious to your thoughts on this.
Glad to hear about the solo travel successes. It sounds brilliant. It makes me want to do something similar!
Darnit, I realised I got the dates wrong in the opening post. BD Oct 17. MO March 18. Kind of funny that I got the dates for the worst and most defining moments of my life wrong
DV
I am glad that you hang around here too and despite having long let go of your XH you continue to help the newbies as they navigate there way through this. For anyone of you newbies who find your way to this site - DV is the bomb.
Croatia is amazing. You will have the most wonderful time. Make sure you visit Plitvica Lakes. It is one of the most beautiful places on earth (and having a H who is a pilot - I've visited a lot of places). Make sure you go early as it gets really crowded. Also, try and make you visit at least one island off Split. The water is the most brilliant shade of blue. I wish they allowed us to direct message on here (but completely get why they don't) as would probably come and visit for a few days as would love to finally meet you and thank you for the many kind words that you wrote which I would read over and over on those many long nights when I wasn't able to sleep.
My posts are introspective because here is where I come to introspect . IRL I don't talk about not being able to be vulnerable or unable to make space for a potential partner. I guess it is easier to be honest with strangers than with real people. IRL I simply say "I'm not ready". I too still hold out hope that he will find his way back to me. But the longer it goes, and the stronger I get, the more I think I am less and less there for him to come back to. I think he thinks the same.
I will look for your thread tonight. I want to know what is going on with you.
Yail
Something came through on Instigram the other day that made me think of a conversation we had : I want a coffee, a tattoo and a holiday . Did you ever get the tattoo?
TBH it is not in my nature to blame so any blame I put on him at the start for the failure of our M was hurt and emotion talking. Our M had problems. Those problems were on both of us. Habit, poor communication, taking each other for granted. He became depressed (I think he would have become depressed no matter what) and he focused on our problems as the reason for his depression. Because he is a person whose nature [b] is [b] to allocate blame, he blamed me for those problems. His depression meant that he couldn't see past the problems, nor could he see a way of resolving them. It was a self fulfilling prophesy. We can't fix it so why even try.
His depression has lifted (it's not gone, but things are clearer than they were). He looks back and probably recognizes our marriage wasn't as bad as he thought it was. But he also sees the pain he caused (not just to me) and he can't come back, because the pain would have been for nothing. So he moves forward and says "I did the right thing". Now, he has to justify "the right thing" by seeing new things to dislike about me. Now I am selfish and inconsiderate for having a life. I am secretive and emotionally detached when I don't engage with him.
And me, well I've been no better. Burnt too many times that I am afraid to be vulnerable around him. Criticized once too often that I avoid spending any time with him. I let him set the terms of reference of our new normal - avoid eye contact, don't share more information than absolutely necessary, treat the other like their a necessary inconvenience - that now I don't know how to behave any other way. There is so much distrust that when one of us tries to be friendly, the other ones' back goes up.
His lack of humility. My stupid pride. And an unhealthy dose of distrust.
I don't know how we even start to find each other again.
It is rubbish.
But enough of this morbid rubbish. I am about to go to Greece with D13 (formerly D12 - yes my little girl is officially a teenager) and D9. It is going to be sitting on a beach / by the pool type of holiday so am looking forward to it.
No tattoo yet, but it's still in the wings. I have a full Pinterest page dedicated to fine-tuning my idea. I've reached out to a friend who works at a local shop (he pierces) and got his opinion on which artist would suit the style I'm looking for. I'm not backing out but I am slowing down to be sure it suits me just right.
But know what? Etsy has temporary tattoos. And I found one in the style I am looking for. So I bought one for $11 and I'm wearing it now to see if I like the placement. I do! So that helps solidify my plans. But Divorce and moving is expensive, so I think I'll delay until I'm feeling a bit more confident in my finances.
I have been drinking way too much black coffee though - so you nailed it.
****
Originally Posted by FlySolo
Our M had problems. Those problems were on both of us. Habit, poor communication, taking each other for granted. He became depressed (I think he would have become depressed no matter what) and he focused on our problems as the reason for his depression.
This is pretty spot on. Your whole description. I get it, and thank you for expanding on why you aren't feeling one-sided blame towards him. I read a lot of folks who really feel the "blame game" towards their spouse, and you stand out from that, so I wanted to hear your thoughts.
You're likely right he would have become depressed no matter what. Sometimes I wonder what a spouse can do to keep a spouse from the edge of depression. And I don't think there is anything. I really don't. I think we can put all of our energy on being 100% connected, and joyful, and adventurous but the demons still bubble up. Depression is such a solo journey.
Originally Posted by flySolo
I don't know how we even start to find each other again.
The only suggestion I have is physical space. You've been in this place where you must interact, and that's hard. I think it extends the rollercoaster, but you don't have any other way about it.
I guess my point is I don't think you should attempt to project your feelings of the future. Of course you don't know how to find one another again - that means you're not there yet and you're not ready. If the time comes you'll know how. And I don't want you to assume it will happen or assume that it will never happen. We have no idea, so don't close the door you're not being asked to walk through.
FS... You are da bomb!! You are someone whose words I have read over and over as well. You have been a great friend to me on this forum. Yail and I have been wondering about you and sending good vibes your way. Last time you were on here, you had been dating that young guy and were a bit concerned about how much you liked him. I take it you decided to end it when you decided you just weren’t ready? It is good to know yourself so well. As you will see in my thread, I go back and forth on my own decisions in the romance department but not having any real clarity at the moment, I am focusing on the here and now and taking each day as it comes. So far so good. Anyway...glad you are back my friend. I am bummed about the PM restriction as well. It would be nice to meet IRL.
So good to see you posting. I truly admire (and envy) your strength. It seems to come naturally to you and I want to be in that place you are in. Full of self esteem and worthiness. And quite rightly.
I know I am strong, but it is a huge physical and mental effort. The self esteem and worthiness are lacking. I'm not sure how to fix those but maybe time will help.
I took a leaf out of your book. Booked a solo trip to Africa!! I join a tour group but it's not called 'intrepid tours' for nothing.
Anyway, it's good to hear from you. We missed you.
It is great to hear from you as well. And wonderful that you are doing the African solo tour. You will have the most amazing time. I have met some wonderful people on my adventures. In January I stood at the top of Mt Blank looked over white covered mountains for miles. In Croatia I jumped off waterfalls, went island hoping in the Dalmatians and saw the most spectacular sunsets. I’ve met Women (and men) like me who have similar stories of being broken and then finding themselves. In between their all too familiar stories of heartbreak, they also have new stories. Of helping build homes for the homeless in Alaska, of getting degrees or training new residents in Vietnam. Of surviving cancer whilst going through a divorce. Of finding life again.. Wonderful and heartbroken stories of things they would not have done if someone hadn’t left them broken. We all have the strength. We just need to remember who we are.
You my love, are one of the strongest women I (dont’t) know. You’re intelligence shines through in every post. I hope you know that. You are wonderful. And with or without a partner you will make the most wonderful life for yourself. A life just for you that you define, not your ex, not even your boys (who are a wonder), but a life for you. Full of warmth and wonder and intelligence (and a little bit of northern cheekiness). I have never met you but I know you have eyes that laugh. You hey crinkle at the corners whenever you smile. I hope you smile more often these days.
The girls and I got back from Greece Saturday night. We had a nice time. Very chilled out. We went to Greece last year as well but the resort wasn't as nice and the children complained when we got back that there wasn't a lot for them to do.
This year I picked a resort which was a little more expensive, but included lots of activities for the children. There was tennis and sailing, and waterskiing etc. We enjoyed it, but D13 refused to join in any of the organised activities for children, which meant that D9 also refused. We did do some of the water activities, but as it wasn't part of the organised activities, I had to pay extra. Whilst the other guests all got to know one another (through their kids) it was the three of us pretty much for the entire week. I don't think I'll do another one of those type of holidays. On one level, I don't think I'm that person. There was a lot of people in lycra riding bikes and doing boot camp classes. There was also a lot of beige. I am not a person who wears a lot of beige. I don't think I ever was. My H would have liked the middle classness of it all. He would have felt like he had made it. No longer the kid whose parents worked blue collar jobs and lived in a state owned house.
Anyway, a week in the sun has left me very tanned.
I did think about him once or twice. When I had to blow up the lilos (blow up water thingys in various shapes that you sit/lay on in the pool). This had always been his job. I had never thought about it before. I would either be unpacking or sorting out the children, and suddenly, there they'd be. A host of blow up plastic animals lined up outside our room, all ready for the children to take to the pool. This time, there I was in the scorching heat, blowing up lilo after milo, realising what a painstaking and horrible task it is, and cursing him leaving. He was also the one that would spend more time with the children in the pool. D9 hanging on to his back whilst he swam around, jumping off his shoulders, playing games with him. The things that you remember that they did that you never appreciated. I also thought that now, that they are older, we no longer need to be on constant alert. They can both swim, they can walk around the resort. We would have been freeier. We could have had a drink, read a book, sunbathed. So even though the holidays would still be about and for our children, the holiday could also now be a relaxing time for us. We could be us again.
I guess this is a reminiscing entry. I did not intend it to be. I spoke in a previous entry about how he told me two days before I was going away with the children, that he too would be going away. I didn't get around to speaking of my reaction. I simply said "OK". Then, instead of getting him to drive us to the airport (as we had agreed), I organised a car to take us then sent him a msg saying "Don't worry about the lift. I've organised a car. We are leaving at 10 if you want to come around before and see the children". So, all that strength Yorkie talks about above. Sometimes we all falter. The children wanted to go with their dad so I agreed but I said that I'd booked the car and could no longer cancel, so would just meet them at the airport instead. Nose, meet face. I cut you off to spite it.
I am trying to be better. Today when he dropped off the children, instead of meeting him at the door and making things uncomfortable, I invited him in for a tea. We spoke for 15 minutes. Nothing significant. Just everyday logistics and small talk. He asked how our holiday was and I replied in the way I would have if a colleague were to ask - detached but happily, with a few funny stories thrown in. I am well versed in small talk. I did not however ask him how his holiday was. Nor did I ask where he went. I'm learning, one step at a time though.
I don't know if I am unique here. I suspect not. But my H is a good man. He loves his kids. He would do anything for them. I can see he is also trying to fight his resentment and open up to me again. Not in an "I want to get back together with you way" but in a "I want to try and be friends". He initiates small talk. He looks downtrodden when he leaves. I think buried somewhere under that resentment, guilt and shame, he still loves me (though not to the point that he would ever say) so it is worth, I believe, trying to rebuild something with him. I know I have the strength to detach. I know I have the strength to be on my own.
Now I need to find out if I have the strength to open myself up to him. To be honest with him. Again, this is not to R. But so we can be something other than silent antagonism.
. 