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SteveLW #2861081 08/12/19 03:10 PM
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We are both divorcees. I thought the main reason to marry was stability for the children so I couldn't see the point. She wanted to get married quite early on but I said I wasn't up for it. If we didn't want to stay together I thought we should be free to split. I could say it backfired but the truth is that it was the OM that caused me to realise how I really felt. Without him we would still be in a rut and I would be numb. With him in the picture I am in great pain but aware of my emotions. If we get back together it will be a new beginning. She has said that she agrees with me about marriage now so I'm sort of easy either way if it's what she really needs.

Come you DBers any comments on the original post?

Last edited by Family Man; 08/12/19 03:11 PM.

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As for the original post, do you think this is enough pain to keep your eyes open and be the thing that really drives you to change? It sounds like you've begun, but sustaining those changes is the true challenge. No matter what happens with this woman you love and are wanting to get back, that is the most important thing you will do. Have you made a plan to keep the good going?


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Hi FM,

First let me say that you have a nasty list of R issues there, in your case your GF isn't leaving because she's going through something, she's leaving because it was a crappy relationship. That makes it much tougher to get her back.

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[*]Subconsciously because of the baggage I was carrying from my previous relationship I was not committing fully for fear of getting hurt again.

[*]We have been conflict avoiders so could not resolve our issues well

[*]medical and other issues inhibited sex( we didn't talk this through )

[*]We stopped trying

I was drinking too much


These are all absolute relationship killers. Now OM has stepped into the picture treating her like you probably did early on and making her feel important and needed again. How do you combat that? By owning your issues and working on them. Stop the drinking. Lose weight if you need to. Seek out counseling to help you deal with your previous baggage. Step up your wardrobe. Clean up your life in every way possible. With time the "newness" of OM will probably wear off and when it does maybe she'll look at the new and improved you and want to give it a shot again. But even if she doesn't you will have regained your confidence and self-worth and will be ready to take on a newer, more healthy R.


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I've worked hard on myself and she has noticed. Now for the signs that I see as positive. What do you experts( especially the women ) think about these:-

[*]I wrote her a poem that explored her mind quite deeply and she got very angry
[*]I apologised for upsetting her, we discussed it and she forgave me( she never disputed the content )
[*]After the anger she wrote down her feelings in a notebook. She showed it to me and it was a list of the things I didn't do that he did.


You see these as positives? Why? No more poems, love notes, heartfelt texts, letters, etc. She's done and nothing you do along those lines will make a difference (as you can clearly see from her above reaction). The best thing you can do right now is TIME and SPACE. Leave her alone. It's what she wants.


Last edited by AnotherStander; 08/12/19 04:03 PM.

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Thank-you AS for this, a critical appraisal. Your first point is well made but while I have portrayed the crappiness in our R this happened after we had just enjoyed a 10 day holiday together. We Had a stunning 2 weeks after she dropped the bomb because I had woken up from my drunken stupor and realised what I wanted. I have smartened up my act and was fortunate enough to do it visibly before she left. I've lost 18 lb, I made her feel loved and we have spoken more intimately than ever. I've regained the energy I used to have to complete tasks in my life and shown an ability to meet some emotional needs that were unsatisfied. In summary we have enough in common to be good friends and I have demonstrated a commitment that was missing. The poem was my first ever. The notes were concise and clearly stated my commitment and new attitudes. I've generally avoided clinginess and dependency. I think I have achieved the cleanup of my act that you suggest and we are on the same page there.

So why do these seem positive to me?

  • I risked invading her head space which made her angry but she forgave me when we discussed it
  • The notes she wrote while angry were obviously for me and she pretended she didn't want me to see them although she brought them to my house and let me photocopy them.
  • She wouldn't care about my dating if she really thought she was moving on


Do you still see no positives?


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ovrrnbw #2861142 08/12/19 08:06 PM
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Thanks ovrrnbw, the changes I have made have been a doddle. I'm totally content with them whatever happens with my R. I was an idiot. If she comes back I'll have the challenge of building a proper R and I relish the idea. If she doesn't I'll have to build it with someone else. I really hope she comes back.


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Originally Posted by Family Man
Your first point is well made but while I have portrayed the crappiness in our R this happened after we had just enjoyed a 10 day holiday together. We Had a stunning 2 weeks after she dropped the bomb because I had woken up from my drunken stupor and realised what I wanted.


To her this is all "too little too late". She thinks her mind is made up and she's done for good. That's only a reflection of how she feels right now, her feelings may very well change with time. But for now she's quite sure she's done, and this is why we say don't temp check. So yes you are confused because you got BD'd and then had a good time with her, but that's actually pretty typical WAS (and yes I know she's not your spouse but this is the shorthand we use around here) behavior. She did it so she could say she "tried everything".

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I have smartened up my act and was fortunate enough to do it visibly before she left. I've lost 18 lb, I made her feel loved and we have spoken more intimately than ever. I've regained the energy I used to have to complete tasks in my life and shown an ability to meet some emotional needs that were unsatisfied. In summary we have enough in common to be good friends and I have demonstrated a commitment that was missing.


That's all great, but don't engage in pursuit behavior and don't expect a fast turnaround on her part. These things take time!

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The poem was my first ever. The notes were concise and clearly stated my commitment and new attitudes.


Our advice on poems, letters, songs, etc. is by all means write them. Write them to her! It can be therapeutic. But DON'T give them to her!

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I risked invading her head space which made her angry but she forgave me when we discussed it


I'm not saying it's a negative but I don't see it as a positive. More like "neutral". You said something that offended her, and now you've smoothed it over so that's good.

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The notes she wrote while angry were obviously for me and she pretended she didn't want me to see them although she brought them to my house and let me photocopy them.


So she gave you a laundry list of things she finds better about OM than you. And... you see that as a good thing? I'm all for optimism but I think it may be a bit misplaced here!

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She wouldn't care about my dating if she really thought she was moving on


My XW has a saying- "she doesn't want you but she doesn't want anyone else to have you either." That's where her head is right now. She wants to have her fling with OM and make a new life with him. But at the same time she wants you to wait in the wings in case it doesn't work out. You DO NOT want to be Plan B. Once you establish yourself as Plan B you are stuck there.


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Thanks again AS, I like your analytical approach even if the conclusions are painful. As regards the first section I believe she jumped when she did because she knew she was close to changing her mind( but still too little too late ). I've been advised that "getting into her head" and understanding her are very attractive in a partner - hence the poem. Do you have a view on that? I think it was a direct hit at getting her to question her decision without judging her. She became quite calm and friendly after I assured her that I did it for her rather than to further my own ends.

The laundry list is laughed at by everyone I've talked to about it. Very thin and inaccurate at times - I thought she may be trying( and failing ) to convince herself. Has she relegated me to plan B or is she finding it difficult to lose face and leave OM? I've seen that sort of behaviour in her before.

She has made other moves that seem positive precursors to getting back but they may be just contingency plans to keep me as plan B( which I hadn't considered before you mentioned it ). Is Plan B discussed anywhere on the site?


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Originally Posted by Family Man
She wanted to get married quite early on but I said I wasn't up for it. If we didn't want to stay together I thought we should be free to split. I could say it backfired


I wouldn't say it backfired, more like this became a self-fulfilling prophecy. She wanted to split....and was free to do so.

So Family Man, I see you shrugging your shoulders and saying: "If we get back together it will be a new beginning. She has said that she agrees with me about marriage now so I'm sort of easy either way if it's what she really needs."

I don't understand that. You've been around long enough to have firm beliefs in what YOU want. So if you get back together, are you willing to give her the long-term commitment that you have thus far been unwilling to give her?


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
SteveLW #2861203 08/13/19 12:58 PM
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Thanks Steve, yes I am absolutely up for the commitment to the best relationship either of us has ever known. As regards marriage I was against it because it was early in our R. Now we're 16 years in and I feel more committed than ever so although I don't need it, if she does it's no big deal with me. I don't think marriage should be used to keep us together - we should want to be together because it's such fun.


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Whilst I would still appreciate input on the positive signs( especially from women ) the thought of being Plan B is playing on my mind. Any thoughts on this:
She is lady captain at the golf club and has organised an away weekend. We were down to share a room. In her angry notes she said she didn't want me to go. She was at my place the other day and she mentioned that we had to confirm the arrangements. I didn't want think about it at that time so I asked her to email the options. There were 2 rooms available - her double and a single. Another member( Ed ) and I both wanted to go. In the email she proposed 4 options in this order:

  • We still share, Ed has the single
  • I share with Ed she has the single
  • She shares with OM, Ed has the single
  • She shares with OM, I have the single

Before I saw the email she contacted OM( who is not a member of our club ) and he said he would not attend if it meant bumping a member.( so he wouldn't go ). As she was telling me this it dawned on both of us that she couldn't share with OM and a huge grin formed on her face when she realised option 1 would work. That is what she has now booked. What is she playing at? It seems an extraordinary length to go to to keep me as plan B. There was no pleading with him to come( how would that make him feel ). How should I play it on the day( not the golf )?


Now divorced, boys grown up. Now in new failed relationship( never again, please )
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