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Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: Dawn70] #2861935
08/19/19 05:39 PM
08/19/19 05:39 PM
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Posts: 2,716
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AndrewP Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kml
It sounds to me like your son has issues that really need addressing. Could he perhaps be a bit on the autism spectrum? Or does he just have severe social anxiety? His lack of social life and close connections would have me worried. My mildly Asperger's son has only really dated one girl (who was a whack a doodle - thankfully he soon came to realize that) but luckily he's very extroverted and does have (similarly Aspie) friends.

It's hard to realize but our kids did not grow up in the world we did. Leaving home at 18 and getting a job that pays your way in the world is not easy now the way it was for our generation. Mental health has declined for reasons that aren't readily apparent. Your son is probably using pot to medicate his anxiety and/or depression. Instead of growing impatient for him to move out, I would suggest you focus on doing more things with him, seeing if he's open to seeing a counselor. He may need a lot of help figuring out his place in the world. Unfortunately when divorce hits at just the wrong developmental stage, our attention as parents gets drawn away from helping our kids to launch. It definitely affected my kids.
I think I largely got off lucky as far as the divorce affecting my kids much. They were both out of the house when it all happened. I was pretty well recovered by the time S25 moved in with me. I'd already given up on his mother having a change of heart well started on the divorce.

I don't believe that S25 is on the autistic spectrum anywhere. He is engaging and charming when around people (other than me). But he has zero close friends and seems fine with that. From what I understand a common trait among Asperger's is that they will develop an intense interest in things. He doesn't. If something is interesting he'll look into it and when it bores him he moves on.

I am pretty confident that he has some depression issues and the self-medication may well be part of his response to that. I don't know. He refuses to talk to a counselor or open up about any of his personal feelings with anyone. Last year I pumped a buddy of his that he plays poker with that could perhaps be his closes friends and was told that S25 doesn't talk about his home life, his parents, nothing.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
I'm so sorry your son responded in that way, Andrew. I get what you are saying about reassuring yourself that you are doing it because it is important to you. I have been there myself with my girls. I have to keep reminding myself sometimes that it IS about me and that I do these things because I enjoy them, not because I am looking for external accolades. The really frustrating part comes when I back off and don't do something like this and people get their feelings hurt, but when I do it, they respond as your son did, so it is almost like you are d@mned if you do and d@mned if you don't, you know?
It happens fairly regularly. It was just a bad time for me to have to experience it again. Not that there's ever a good time.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
Maybe it is my strict southern upbringing, but some of the things (the weed smoking included) that S25 does in your home strike me as disrespectful. Again, I get that I'm a goody two shoes where weed is concerned so maybe it is more common than I realize, but It just seems unusual to me. I know you want S25 to be independent and to make his own way in the world, but I think a part of you secretly likes having him around, even if he is super moody, because it gives you someone to fuss over.


Take solace in the fact that, whatever S25's current mood is, you are an awesome dad and if you weren't, he wouldn't be sticking around. He'd have long ago found any excuse to get out from under your watchful eye. wink

Yep - disrespectful. It's generally not overt but I do believe that he doesn't have a large amount of respect for me. It does make me walk on eggshells around him though. As I've maybe mentioned - it's like living with a taller, hairier version of his mother. The apple did not fall far from the tree.

He knows my attitude about the weed. I don't like it to be in my house, don't think it's healthy but also recognize that he is a grown man and that I'm not a tin-pot dictator who thinks that this is a big enough issue to have conflict over.

I actually don't fuss over him. 95% of the time he does his own thing and I do mine. I clean and cook because I like a clean house and enjoy cooking. I share a meal with him on Sunday because that's "important" to me.

An boy oh boy yes - would I like him to move out. I actually thought that B being in the house would have made him uncomfortable enough to incent him to move - but nope - he just adapted. Having him move out would "very" open up my own social horizons. Having someone over for sexy-time is certainly much more awkward knowing that he's in the next room. And I hate walking on eggshells - afraid that I'll set him off.

Having him there keeps him stuck in the life of a 17 year old boy in the body of a 25 year old man. He doesn't know his way out of it and TBH - anything I've suggested to him with varying degrees of persistence just haven't stuck. I know that he is more than capable of making his own way in the world. He just won't. He, like his mother will listen to suggestions, even agree that they are a good idea and then just no do it. I've sent him job postings - even ones in the village and he passively refuses to apply. I've suggested counseling. He refuses to go. I've even suggested that he consider going back to school. Nothing.

He doesn't want to be there either I'm sure. He is very embarrassed when he encounters former class-mates who are getting married, having kids, buying houses. Generally speaking he goes out of his way to avoid interacting with me around the house.

I can't do it for him. B I think helped by her less than subtle nudges on him to move out (and take his cats). His mother also maybe stepped up at that time too. But B is gone. There's no telling what his mother is thinking but that threat to her "ownership" of him and I is no longer threatened so she'll probably just idle along too. She may even push him to stay "so that Dad's not alone".

Sigh - I'll be better. But I'm really not seeing any active path towards any changes. The only one that comes to mind is when his bank account gets empty. I won't be making his car payments for him and if his mother has to cough up for those, she'll certainly get on his case.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2861955
08/19/19 06:51 PM
08/19/19 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Sigh - I'll be better. But I'm really not seeing any active path towards any changes. The only one that comes to mind is when his bank account gets empty. I won't be making his car payments for him and if his mother has to cough up for those, she'll certainly get on his case.



I have no doubt that things will get better and that, at some point, S25 will spread his wings. While it is none of my business so you don't even have to respond, I had assumed that he was at least making his car payment and the above quote suggests that he is not, but that you are doing it for him. That is the type of thing I was referring to when I talked about you fussing over him. Yes, I know you don't follow him around and do everything for him and I fully realize that you cook because you like to cook and you clean because you prefer a tidy house, but my point with the fussing was that, even in a little way, as long as he is there, you DO have someone to take care of, maybe not overtly, but in some way. If you don't cook, I'm sure he does, but the fact that you like to and are willing to do so for both of you works to his advantage. And, the fact that you prefer to have a pretty clean house also works to his advantage because when he does cook for himself, he typically leaves the mess for you to clean up.

The long and short of it is, you love your son and he loves you, though at his age, it is likely still somewhat uncool to admit that. I know I have said this before, but honestly, if her father or I would've allowed it after she got out of high school, our middle daughter would STILL be living with one of us and letting us take care of her and she's 28 with 2 kids.


Me 49, XH 51
3 adult daughters from his first marriage
3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter
My 1st marriage, his 2nd
BD 9/29/2014
H moved out 10/6/2014
H filed D 11/4/2014
D final 12/17/2014
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: Dawn70] #2861958
08/19/19 06:58 PM
08/19/19 06:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,716
Canada
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AndrewP Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dawn70
While it is none of my business so you don't even have to respond, I had assumed that he was at least making his car payment and the above quote suggests that he is not, but that you are doing it for him.
Nope - the loan is in his name and he's making the payments presumably burning through his savings account. If he runs out of cash, I won't be the one stepping up. I would expect that his mother is on the loan as a co-signer so she'd need to step up for that. It is literally none of my business.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2862016
08/20/19 12:49 AM
08/20/19 12:49 AM
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Speaking of sons, sea and sailboats, you should check out the YouTube channel "Sailing La Vagabond." It's an Australian couple that have been sailing around the world in a 45 foot catamaran. They recently had a son and the baby is so much fun to watch. I'd forgotten about baby giggles and squealing laughter. Somehow it's soothing to see a small family sailing to various port with a baby on board. Tons of vicarious pleasure.

Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2862017
08/20/19 12:50 AM
08/20/19 12:50 AM
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In my experience, some kids need to be kicked out of the nest to spread their wings. Not only is it better for them, it's better for the relationship.

It's going to be hard for any child to respect an adult who walks on eggshells around them.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2862037
08/20/19 11:12 AM
08/20/19 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by Dawn70
While it is none of my business so you don't even have to respond, I had assumed that he was at least making his car payment and the above quote suggests that he is not, but that you are doing it for him.
Nope - the loan is in his name and he's making the payments presumably burning through his savings account. If he runs out of cash, I won't be the one stepping up. I would expect that his mother is on the loan as a co-signer so she'd need to step up for that. It is literally none of my business.


You know who should really be stepping up for that????

Him!

I mean your ex might want to not to hurt her credit, but I would let him deal with the fall out of not making payments.

Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2862059
08/20/19 01:34 PM
08/20/19 01:34 PM
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Posts: 2,716
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AndrewP Offline OP
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Went to bed early last night. S25 was cheerful, making his supper so I didn't bother with the few dishes that were out.

This morning I found a large plate in the fridge with a few pieces of birthday cake on it. I think the one I got him was better but this one appeared to have been more shared. Maybe it was from his mother? No clue. The plate looks like the ones that he's brought home from the pub with leftovers on it. His mother left taking her "good dishes" that we were never allowed to use. I doubt she'd let him take one of those back home. Other than figuring out what to do with the dirty plate and the rather nice large metal bowl that is covering it's not my issue. Generally I set the clean plates on the counter and if they are still there a week later I move them to his room. He gets the hint. And has a large number of clean containers that had leftovers from his mother in them in his room.

About 10 hours in bed. I probably slept for in the neighbourhood of 8. When B was living with me it would often be well after 9:00 before we would get to sleep and she would wake me up at 3:30 like clock-work. I do get more sleep at least although I certainly enjoyed being in bed more when she was there.

Unsurprisingly I had some incredibly vivid dreams last night. One larger one that I remember rather clearly involved me being stranded off the coast of California, B organizing the rescue and then nursing me back to health. For a brief time I felt that I had someone I could count on. It was a nice feeling. I had others that I believe were of a common theme that I've had for a while where something is broken, usually plumbing or flooding related and I try to fix it, often unsuccessfully. I've always dreamed very realistically and yes - in the night did reach out in my dream and felt B next to me and then reached out awake and she wasn't. Sometimes the dreams are in the first person, sometimes the third.

I woke up with an urge to invite B out for coffee and a visit or to contact her son to see how she's doing. Generally all bad ideas. I was a bit startled as I was heading out to work on hearing a noise from my pocket and my phone had "butt-dialed" her. I hung up before she could answer. Cosmic harmony is rather persistent.

I'm sure she knows that I miss her and regret that things didn't work out. The fact that she was so very uncomfortable in my home and my world is sadly I think an insurmountable obstacle. If she were willing to give it another and honest try I would also probably be willing. I honestly don't know if that is possible for her. I was certainly willing to accept her as she was. There were a lot of things that we could have done together that we would both have enjoyed but we didn't. Her only focus was going to her cottage, dealing with S38's drama and her grandkids. There's a lot that could be said in the "what if" category but the reality is that it didn't happen.

She, like my ex-wife know exactly where I am and that while I may be currently taking a pause am not standing still.

Well - I'm supposedly well rested and have a busy list in front of me. Time to get to it.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2862062
08/20/19 01:38 PM
08/20/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,885
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline
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i'm thinking his co-workers gave him a bday cake.

i'm sorry you're feeling sad.

you're processing all of this. it takes that fickle Biatch we know as Time.

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: Ginger1] #2862080
08/20/19 02:53 PM
08/20/19 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ginger1
T
Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by Dawn70
While it is none of my business so you don't even have to respond, I had assumed that he was at least making his car payment and the above quote suggests that he is not, but that you are doing it for him.
Nope - the loan is in his name and he's making the payments presumably burning through his savings account. If he runs out of cash, I won't be the one stepping up. I would expect that his mother is on the loan as a co-signer so she'd need to step up for that. It is literally none of my business.


You know who should really be stepping up for that????

Him!

I mean your ex might want to not to hurt her credit, but I would let him deal with the fall out of not making payments.


I remembered you had said it was in his name with his mother co-signing, but something about the way you phrased that paragraph made it sound like you were helping him out. Like I said, none of my business so didn't even really require a response (unless you want to say "butt the h3ll out" which I would totally understand). Having said that, I do agree with G, though. He's 25 now and it is time he learns to step up and deal with issues rather than being bailed out by XW or whoever might step up to help him.

I think Rose had an excellent point too, about him not respecting someone who walks on eggshells for fear of upsetting him. That's a hard spot for you to be in, Andrew, and I do feel for you.


Me 49, XH 51
3 adult daughters from his first marriage
3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter
My 1st marriage, his 2nd
BD 9/29/2014
H moved out 10/6/2014
H filed D 11/4/2014
D final 12/17/2014
Re: From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues [Re: AndrewP] #2862086
08/20/19 03:38 PM
08/20/19 03:38 PM
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So why would you want to give it another shot with B?

It would only work if she wasnít who she really is. She really is who she is. Her life is her life, her choices are her choices.

So, it would work only if she was who you wanted her to be. See what I am saying?

B is the person who loves her cottage, prefers to save S38 and dedicate majority of her time to the grandkids. This is who she is. She isnít the woman walking around town with you or staying at home on a Sunday doing the house thing and Sunday supper. It isnít who she is. Itís who you want her to be.

You miss the presence of another. I get that soooo much. But she isnít the one. The one will come.

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