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A Message from Michele
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These Old Shades #2859803
08/01/19 08:32 PM
08/01/19 08:32 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Hello! Thanks everyone for the comments on the last thread, starting a new one here.

Old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2859541&page=1

DnJ, Pinn ... you guys are great - but I don't see myself just leaning over and kissing anyone ever. Not my style! Westo, yes! Sing it sister! I think you're all correct and I'm being way too subtle though to me it seems that I'm anything but ...
oh, well... I am so tempted to have this discussion via text or something, because I'm monster chicken heart, but I think it's best to wait til the next time I see him in person and get a sense then of whether the stars are aligned for a favorable outcome or not, lol

My work buddy and I were on a long drive today and I told him about this. He laughed and said we are two rudderless ships on the ocean going around in circles ... then likened us to Pacey and Joey and some Saved by the Bell couples ... meaning STOP being teenagers and be more direct.

Sigh.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2859811
08/01/19 09:10 PM
08/01/19 09:10 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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the title is a favorite book by one of my favorite authors ... Georgette Heyer ... Queen of regency Romance (not bodice rippers) ... in deference to Bro from another mother's efforts to mock my tender sensibilities, lol.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2859815
08/01/19 09:25 PM
08/01/19 09:25 PM
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Hey ya bfly. I actually didn’t mean to go for the kiss... I was just agreeing with DnJ... sometimes us guys are totally obtuse when it comes to this stuff. Don’t know about your friend, but I am super guilty of this. I just see nothing and need clear signs.... a total dunce!

Oh! And I was thinking if I were in your friends shoes, and you started talking about dating... I think I would list potential dates as well even if I dug you. And I have absolutely no idea why. Maybe I would take that as a sign that you aren’t into me and we are too far in the friend zone??? I think I would mention guys that I knew were highly unlikely for you to go for though (ala your brother from another mother). Just my weird perspective.

I think the hand hold might be a good idea.


Sun is shinin' in the sky
There ain't a cloud in sight
It's stopped rainin' everybody's in a play
And don't you know
It's a beautiful new day, hey hey
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2859848
08/02/19 12:34 AM
08/02/19 12:34 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Hi Pinn ... yup women can be obtuse at times also. I can try a hand hold and see what happens. xoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2859964
08/03/19 01:43 AM
08/03/19 01:43 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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so kids two virginal experiences for me today!

The first: I decided to do something I've never done before - get my hair highlighted. I've had serious hairdresser fear since I was a little kid. I have very fine naturally curly hair and people always want to layer it or cut it super short ... worst thing you can do to my hair, unless you want the Roseanne RosannaDana look, which isn't my thing. Also, I not really adventurous with color. But now, I have lovely caramel and dark blonde highlights just like when I was a little kid and spent every waking moment out in the sunshine all summer long. I'm so happy with how it looks smile I sent a photo to my friend and he was completely shocked - my stylist also blew it out straight so we could get a good look at the color - he likes it smile

The second: Well as I've mentioned, I'm writing a 4th step (fearless moral inventory) focused mainly on relationships, as it's an opportunity to get super introspective, identify behaviours that no longer serve and free myself of the baggage of the past so I can move into my future lighter, happier and more at peace while also knowing what not to repeat! As part of this I've become very aware of certain things I do but also certain things I avoid doing out of fear. One big thing is not saying something if something bothers me for fear of rejection. So today I actually initiated a conversation with friend about something that's been nagging at me for a while and OMG it was AWESOME! My concern was immediately addressed.SHOCK. I am usually the one asking to get together. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm the only one interested here. What we've both realized is that I have way more variables when planning an outing than he does. I have to line up dog walker, mom stuff and sometimes son stuff also, whereas he's going through his mad busy Saturday with his son's activities and doesn't think about free time until he has it on Sunday. He can then be so much more spontaneous than I can afford to be right now. We came to this realization together in such an easy way. I'm blown away and impressed all at the same time.

Yay for virginal experiences!!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2859991
08/03/19 01:54 PM
08/03/19 01:54 PM
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Good Morning bttrfly

What a great update.

Your highlights sound like they turned out perfect. And straight hair?!? smile A shock to friend, which was well received with two thumbs up.

Fearless moral inventory. Are you still on track to be complete by August 7th? I was wondering why the date, and figured it is a goal to help push you to do the introspective digging around.

The talk with friend is fantastic. As well as the outcome. Yay, indeed.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860006
08/03/19 04:37 PM
08/03/19 04:37 PM
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Went over to Mom's this morning. "Hey Mom" usual talking back and forth. After about 15 minutes I stood under the recessed light in her kitchen, "Mom ... notice anything?" She looks at me ... walks closer ... silence. then, "WHAT did YOU DO?"

Hahhhhahhha

"I just dropped 20 years, Mom. Like it?"

"Yes, you did! You're too young to let the grays show"

Momnapped her. Made her breakfast. She wanted to listen to Dean Martin so we did while I unpacked the wedding china and crystal and put it into the newly painted hutch. Did I mention I spent last Saturday chalk painting an old 1920s hutch one of my good friends gave me when I moved to my apartment? It was that old dark brown ... not no more. Aqua blue chalk paint with a tan contrast to bring out the details in the wood. Now it is filled with china and crystal and there are less boxes in my life. Yay.

I wanted her to try out her bathroom here, so I helped her take a shower - the grab bars aren't in yet, so I wanted to stay very close. She's now ensconced on the love seat, had a Klondike bar and is watching her cooking shows. I'm about to do her laundry and go back to organizing the dining room.

In a little while we will check out the new Sketchers outlet and get her some new sneakers, then I'll buy a dehumidifier and a gas powered string trimmer for our property.

I won't lie, I'm pretty tired, but it's the next day and I still really LOVE my new hair, complete with cut (just a trim).

Son is at work. I will make some coffee and put it in the fridge so he'll have iced coffee when he gets home. Not sure what to cook everyone for dinner. I've cleaned out the fridge. Feeling a bit tired. It was a long week.

DnJ thanks for the post - why the 7th? Because I have a monthly therapy session on the 7th and I want to do a 5th step at that session. A 5th step is basically sharing the 4th step. I think it will be valuable and don't want to wait until my session in September to do that. I feel a pressing need to get on with the business of living my own vision of my life, not reacting to someone else's actions. A friend of mine wrote a book. In it is a great quote: ""The shaman understands that if you are not dreaming your own world, you are living someone else's dream." Someone else's dream could be your nightmare - especially in the case of the WAS and the LBS or the crazed MLCr and those they drag through their insanity.

As for the talk - text conversation, really. Yeah, neither of us really stopped to think about spontaneity vs needing to plan so that everyone / everything gets done. It made me feel a lot better and it was effortless once I got over the fear of bringing it up.

With exh, often bringing something up would lead to a passive aggressive experience or worse, a cold and cutting argument. Standing up for myself or asking for clarity sometimes simply wasn't worth the price. Nice way for someone to control their partner. That's on exh. What's on me is making it clear to myself most of all that indeed I AM worth standing up for.

happy Saturday! back to work!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860007
08/03/19 04:57 PM
08/03/19 04:57 PM
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Wow you sound great! Keep it up!


Sun is shinin' in the sky
There ain't a cloud in sight
It's stopped rainin' everybody's in a play
And don't you know
It's a beautiful new day, hey hey
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860009
08/03/19 05:09 PM
08/03/19 05:09 PM
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It’s wonderful how a new hair colour can really cheer someone up. I used to run my own hairdressing business and cut and colour was my specialty.

It’s a very rewarding job when you can see the difference it makes to a woman smile

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860017
08/03/19 08:05 PM
08/03/19 08:05 PM
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thx Pinn! Westo, wish you could see it, it's very subtle and looks great. I don't know if I am happy because of how it looks or because I had the guts to try something new with my hair, lol!!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860061
08/04/19 01:57 PM
08/04/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
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Southern Maryland
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I am so glad you are doing some things for yourself. I'm sure your hair looks great. Look at it this way, if you don't like it, you can always change the color again.

Sounds like you've had a very busy weekend. Be sure to take some time out for yourself.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860063
08/04/19 02:05 PM
08/04/19 02:05 PM
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Good Morning bttrfly

I love how you unveiled your new hairdo and colour to your Mom. Her response was so good.

Thanks sharing the reason for the date of 7th. I totally get not wanting to wait another month. And as you’ve said stuff is pouring out pretty easily so I’m sure you not rushing the process; you are far too reasonable a gal for that.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I feel a pressing need to get on with the business of living my own vision of my life, not reacting to someone else's actions.

The way you wrote that. Excellent. The business of life - house, car, bills, fire pit, pie irons. smile The epitome of letting go and following your vision.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
As for the talk - text conversation, really. Yeah, neither of us really stopped to think about spontaneity vs needing to plan so that everyone / everything gets done. It made me feel a lot better and it was effortless once I got over the fear of bringing it up.

Really good stuff.

Overcame the fear and the talk was effortless. That’s wonderful.

Do you think/feel that your main trepidation regarding a serious conversation with friend was, and is, a remnant of past passive aggressive with XH? The deeper feelings, the hurt, that price - uncouple it from friend and your/his conversing. Be intellectual in that pursuit, and let go those remnant left overs; they will wither.

You are very much indeed worth standing up for.

I found it interesting to see what is holding us down, and what we stand up from.

Enjoy the day.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2860134
08/05/19 12:20 PM
08/05/19 12:20 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ

Do you think/feel that your main trepidation regarding a serious conversation with friend was, and is, a remnant of past passive aggressive with XH?


Exh could go from P/A to full on onslaught in your face going for your jugular in a nanosecond, if he felt threatened in any way. Downright verbally nasty AF.

I would do a lot not to have to endure that ever again.


Had a fight with my son yesterday morning in which he acted like his father (or perhaps his father just acted like a teenager, you decide). It got pretty nasty pretty fast. No mother of the year awards coming my way as in absolute frustration I blasted him and told him to F off pretty emphatically. Why the fight? Apparently there weren't enough chocolate chips for the pancakes he was making himself and I don't bother to grocery shop. I spent $200 on groceries last week - two ribeye steaks (for son), luncheon meats (for son), ice cream (for son and mom) among other items. Sue me for not buying chocolate chips for his pancakes.

He has also informed me he's moving out on my birthday.

He had yesterday off. I went to my volunteer gig. Over an hour's drive, crying all the way there. One of the shyest furry friends could tell I needed some love and came up to me to give me kisses. Nothing like three beautiful furry friends over 100 pounds each surrounding you with love and kisses to make your heart stop hurting for a little while.

I was out in the sun without enough water again yesterday, as the shenanigans with Son made me forget my water. I filled an empty coffee cup from the hose, lol, but needed probably double what I actually drank. Resulted in a headache that wouldn't quit. Went to my friend's pool on the way home, didn't want to get my hair wet, lol, so my body was shivering in the pool while my head felt hot and hurt. I went home, took a shower and went to bed. Couldn't figure out why I was so uncomfortable all night - realized this morning that son shut off the A/C so it was 75 degrees in here. Yuck. I like to sleep in a 68 degree room with a down comforter, the weight of that is comforting to me as I sleep.

You know the bottom line is I have PTSD from exh. I don't respond well to being triggered. I'm working on it, but wish the healing was further along. Not sure how to 'uncouple' from it other than to keep reminding myself that was then, this is now, different situations, different people. With son it's harder, but the stakes are also higher, so it's definitely important, no - vital - to heal from this and not act out.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860152
08/05/19 02:58 PM
08/05/19 02:58 PM
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Posts: 2,657
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bttrfly - sending you a hug and sympathy. I can understand the frustration you feel with your son. I smiled when you detailed the groceries. I also buy a lot of food that I never get to eat or appreciate. Don't be too surprised if it all blows over and he chooses to stay instead of moving out.

The problem with kids and spouses is that they know exactly where your buttons are and how hard to kick them. Someone - it might even be you - once told me that they strike out at us because they know it's safe to do so. That we are the sane parent.

But it still hurts. I'm glad your fur buddies were able to provide some comfort - here's my big Canadian bear hug {{{{btrrfly}}}}


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860170
08/05/19 04:44 PM
08/05/19 04:44 PM
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The question is, girl, what's up with son that he was so irrational about the chocolate chips? Was it just low blood sugar talking, or drugs, or eating disorder, or stress over his recent visit with his father and whatever transpired there? It could be worth pursuing this at another time when you're both calmed down.

Remember sometimes as the strong parent we take the brunt of their angst about the divorce as they're afraid to vent on the absent parent.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860171
08/05/19 04:45 PM
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(Or was he just grumbling in an ordinary teen kvetching way and it set you off because of the resemblance to his father?)

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860178
08/05/19 05:11 PM
08/05/19 05:11 PM
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Good Morning bttrfly

I feel for you. Son and his shenanigans. Know it’s ok. And as Andrew pointed he knows where your buttons are.

He isn’t mad about the chocolate chips; he doesn’t really know why he’s mad. It is just an excuse.

Son needs to push you. To see if you bend, break, or stand strong. I didn’t see this when my first boy was going through this and becoming a man. I think I missed (some) of it again with my second son as well. smile

Kids need to know their parents, or parent, will be fine without them. Ah, that egocentric attitude. I learnt the importance of projecting, and being, strong and stable.

I would also say son is looking to move out, and has been thinking about it. A very reasonable and necessary thing for him to do. He has been trying to figure out how to tell you. My goodness imagine if he could just push passed his fear and just talk to you. That is even hard for us, and we have many years of experience behind us. He is just gaining his experience.

Adulting is hard. Remember back in childhood, a lot less knowledge, a lot more naive, a lot less fear. If you liked someone you’d just tell them, and if they hit you, they really liked you. Ha. You’d wear your heart on your sleeve, something much easier to do when it hasn’t been broken. We could be so open and free. Growing up we loose that, and find it again later - well more or less - sans hitting.

Son is growing up, and has also been hurt. He doesn’t need to hear how much you’ll miss him, he knows. And he is going to miss you. He needs, and wants, to hear everything will be fine. Of course he is going about it like an adolescent, irrationally. The very thing this is all based upon - emotions and feelings.

So he pushes. He lashes out. Gets you and him angry, so he can let you know his intentions; and see what your reactions are. It’s weird, ... or maybe not so much. In an emotional state, like angry, a person usually shows more of who they truly are, and what they think. Now that last part isn’t actually true, it is how it is perceived. We actually show more of what we feel - however most people do not separate, or have never been exposed to a need to separate, their feeling from their thoughts and beliefs.

Consider this, we all realize that lying and deception requires intellect and thought - control of you and the situation so as to craft a convincing tale to blind the other person. I am talk the well-crafted untruth, not an emotional “nah I didn’t do it”. So with that, we can believe that emotionally one cannot keep their lie straight and the truth will emerge.

Kids are just double checking what we said is the truth. In a most aggravating way. Seriously! - Chocolate chips. Been there bttrfly. So many times.

And something else with the dance between you and son - he is leading it. He is making his nest dirty. Easier to leave. He is purposefully causing strife so as to allow each of you to let go. My second son during one of our heated discussions, I told him “He is making it difficult from me to miss him when he is gone”. He then told me “That’s point. That is what I’m after. That’s how it should be.” He was emotional, and blurted out his hidden feelings.

Oh the fights me and my kids have had. And they all love me and care about me. And have grown into loving, kind, and caring young adults. Well, D17 is still working on that. smile S18 is pretty well along.

Letting son know in such emphatically demonstrative terms is ok. It’s not like he doesn’t know those words. And do take the current era we are living in, everything is accentuated with F. He and you are adjusting your relationship from child / parent to adult / adult. Of course he will always be your son and baby; something that takes a bit of time to figure a way to reconcile within one’s self as our child let’s go the apron string. It’s difficult and sad to watch them eagerly step away from us. And then becomes such a wonder to witness their growth and their return.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
No mother of the year awards coming my way...

I think you did excellent.

Next time, and there will be, don’t sweat the small stuff, and don’t swear. You blew up, which is good. Next time gently guiding the dance he is leading will gain so much.

Mother - the first girl we love.

Don’t beat yourself up Mom. You did fine and are more deserving of Mom of the Year than you realize.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860256
08/06/19 03:20 AM
08/06/19 03:20 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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hi Job and thanks. Yes, felt good to do something nice and different for myself. Really did!
Thanks DnJ, Ellie and Andrew ... thanks for the Canadian bear hug. I appreciate it. Son was very nice to me last night when I came home not feeling well. He checked on me and asked me if I needed anything a couple of times so I know he does care.

Today was a strange day. Friend and I texted back and forth as we usually do. He's going to a concert tonight and had several hours to kill before the show. We'd talked about going together but at the time the tix went on sale there was a lot of money flying out because of the house and $120 was too much for my budget (that was the lowest ticket price - Bryan Ferry, whom I love and would have really enjoyed seeing, but didn't feel I could justify that ticket price with the new house and the vacation and the car engine blowing up). Anyway I'd suggested to him last night when we talked on the phone that we have dinner together, but he thought that was a bad idea because then I'd have to go home and he'd have to go to the show alone. So crap day at work - my co-worker quit very spontaneously- at the end of the day I texted friend and turns out he was coming to the town I work in (hmm...) and would be about 10 minutes from the office. We decided to have a quick dinner which was lovely. We both really seemed to enjoy each other's company and then he asked about son, and then son called - twice - and was furious that he came home and I wasn't on the way and we weren't going to have dinner together. Initially I thought son was pissed about having to feed himself, but the more I think about it I think he's upset that I'm not having dinner with him. Hmm. Interesting.

anyway, friend and I parted and we definitely both hugged a bit longer than usual. Hmmm. also interesting. He seemed bummed out after we talked about my son possibly moving or not and also something that he's dealing with which isn't pleasant. I feel like he's concerned about adding more to my plate.

On the drive home I called son, to find out what was really going on. he'd had a very bad day at work. He says I "just went to my room" once he turned 13. I said no, I drove you to all your activities, never missed any and thoroughly enjoyed watching him participate in all of them. I reminded him that he went through a phase where he didn't want to eat my cooking and always wanted to eat out. I wouldn't indulge him all the time but definitely did more than I should have. I forced the issue to keep talking and told him that clearly he feels that I abandoned him and we need to talk about that. He said that since I don't agree there's no point. I countered with it's your perception that matters, and if you believe that then that's truth and we will talk about this. if Ive fallen down on the job as his parent I want to know how so I can correct it and not do so in the future. I also apologized for making him feel that way but then I also called him on his crap and let him know that his passive aggressive comments were not welcome. at all. and the attitude was also not welcome, but I'm not going anywhere so we were going to work this out. He is still threatening to move on my birthday. Doesn't have a place to go. I did what my therapist told me to do a month ago: I told him exactly what was going on for me when exh left. That I was barely keeping it together, my world had blown apart. I didn't know what to do, had to be strong for him and try to save our family. He was always fed, he always had the basics, but there would come a point where I couldn't hold it in any longer so I would go to my room and sob into my pillow so he wouldn't hear me crying. I apologized for not being able to keep our family together and said there was only one person who could have done that and he didn't want to. I've never thrown exh under the bus. I kind of feel like I did by saying that but you know what? it's the freaking truth, and son knows it.

Things were better when I got home, but my phone rang as I was going out to buy him something at the grocery store and he started being mean again. I told my friend I'd call back and said to son, "I know you think I want you to move out. I don't. What I want is for your attitude to move out, and for you to stop talking to me and treating me this way. I don't like it and it needs to stop now. Then I left, texted him a photo of the bread he wanted to make sure it was the right one and got a small bit of attitude when I came home. Ugh. But it was a bit better.

My son actually told me my chicken was dry!! That was the first thing I ever cooked for his father who always praised my chicken as being moist, tender and delicious. I was so distraught I actually called exh to ask him if my chicken is dry!!! I'm out of my mind.

Exh hasn't called back yet, for those wondering at home but I've been reassured by a close friend that my chicken is delicious.

Feh


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860416
08/07/19 01:17 AM
08/07/19 01:17 AM
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Ginger1 Online
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I’ve been reading and I just want to throw a bunch of hugs out there . I can empathize with trying to be the best parent you can be while making silent sacrifices through the hardest of times that they will never see. And to hear what he had to say must have been so hard and I just feel for you.

I cook and I cook good. My daughter however is the pickiest eater and always has a comment. It drives me nuts!

I just want you to know I get it. The frustration, the bein the only one.....

And by the way, your friend totally loves you. I know it.

And about your hair..... I have thin curly hair too that I’ve battled all my life. I had it long for years and blew it out straight and I recently decided to embrace the curl and got a special cut and use a special method. It’s actually short , but woah!ool up the curly girl method. It is such a game changer for people with curly hair! You will never believe your hair is capable of this! I wow’d so many people. And you will continue to wow your “friend”!

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860442
08/07/19 09:40 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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{{{{{ Ginger!! }}}}}

I KNOW you get it, and man, am I tired. That's why I've been up since 3:30. Son is also up. frown although we haven't acknowledged to each other that we are each awake.

Realization re: son - I'm tired because I'm trying to be both mom and dad and have been for years. Time to stop that. I'm not being a good mom or a good dad by trying to be both, so ... I will focus on being the best mom I can be today. That's all I can do. It's not my job or my place to be both parents. REALLY. hard decision to come to, but I think ultimately it's the best choice, to focus on being a good mom.

I must be doing something right because son asked what was for dinner, suggested Chinese from our favorite restaurant (45 min to an hour one way away) and said he would contribute financially to the meal and also join me on the drive as he wanted to eat it at home.

Whaaat? A chance to be in the car with son for minimally 90 minutes if the traffic was light? YES!

But omg, I cannot eat Chinese any more. I didn't make the wisest choice, and my stomach isn't happy with all the grease. No great revelations during the drive, but that's ok. Was more about spending time together I think.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
And by the way, your friend totally loves you. I know it.


Well, last year he said in a very odd tone that he and his son really like me a lot, for what that's worth. I had the feeling at the time that he meant more, and was carefully phrasing it and including son in an effort not to scare me off. Of course, me being me, it made me happy but also did scare me because I wasn't sure how I felt at the time and now there's a kid involved who I don't want to ever hurt.

He's also said a few times, 'you're not ready" or 'it's too soon for you now' but he hasn't said that since last year. We've talked about my grieving for Dad and now dealing with Mom and the two properties, and son. It's a lot. It's real life stuff, as he says.

Anyone who thinks parenting ends when their kids turn 18 has some surprises in store.

I guess from his perspective the question might be when's good timing to ask someone in my position out on a date. That's off putting enough for someone who doesn't have the history of being a LBS. As he is someone who was a LBS, I get his hesitation.

Here's where I am with that today: Finished my 4th step. Going to do a 5th tonight with my counselor to get rid of it all. Clean slate. Then I guess we'll see? I won't see him for maybe two weeks, but we text all the time.

My hairdresser keeps using Deva Curl on my hair. It looks good when he does it but on the most hot and humid days we had not too long ago it turned my mane into a rat's nest. Usually I let my hair dry naturally. I've found the best hair product for me is Morroccan Oil's intensive hair mask as a leave in. Soft, beautiful curls and no frizz. In the late fall/winter, I blow it out straight. because I can't stand wet hair in the freezing cold. I've pretty much stopped shampoo except for once or twice a week and it's the low poo variety.

It's 5:39 I'm going to try to nap for a little bit before facing the day. xoxoxo Ginger xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860456
08/07/19 11:45 AM
08/07/19 11:45 AM
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DnJ Offline
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Good Morning bttrfly

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Anyone who thinks parenting ends when their kids turn 18 has some surprises in store.

Amen to that!

Originally Posted by btrfly
I'm trying to be both mom and dad...I'm not being a good mom or a good dad by trying to be both...I will focus on being the best mom I can be...It's not my job or my place to be both parents.

Spot on.

And your realization, decision, and choice to do so - well done.

I am glad to see you completed the 4th step. It is apparent you are looking forward to the 5th at tonight’s session. Running towards something rather than from something.

It is very nice to see son wanting to ride with you to a restaurant, “our favourite” not just his favourite, and willing to be with you in a car for 90 minutes.

Adolescents / young adults reach out slowly like that, little bit at a time, even timidly. Spending time together is awesome and paves the way for future revelations. He knows he can count on you, and you have his back - it’ll be years until he figures out how to tell you that. However, he does show it, all the time; although a lot of those signs are frustrating.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860558
08/07/19 06:08 PM
08/07/19 06:08 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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thx DnJ - the sad thing is he used to tell me that all the time. Now, no. It's ok. I work hard to respect where's he at ... and harder to dig deeper for patience, lol.

More car issues today, which were happily resolved. It died again, wouldn't start. I called my cousin, she came bombing down the road to help jump start it. We couldn't figure out where the ground was on her battery. She was on the phone with her husband as I was saying, "Cuz, I don't think we're as hot as we used to be ... look at all these guys driving by and not stopping to help us!" when a nice young man did just that. Probably took pity on two women of a certain age, lolz. Car is now fixed (new battery, new (used) coil packs, and corroded main ground is now cleaned and lubed.

I was talking to my car buddy (mutual friend of exh and I for over 30 years) after this fiasco and we were trading "rules" of dating. He has rules, I just have a don't want list and a do want list. .. anyway, as I was talking to him I heard myself say, "You know what? My worst fear was abandonment and losing my family. I've lived through that. I'm now fearless. Thanks for that little bit of freedom! BRING IT ON!"

and you know what? I mean it. Not tempting fate, just saying once your worst fear is realized, what's left? Carpe Diem!!!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860565
08/07/19 06:49 PM
08/07/19 06:49 PM
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DnJ Offline
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
My worst fear was abandonment and losing my family. I've lived through that. I'm now fearless.

Yes!


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860601
08/08/19 01:02 AM
08/08/19 01:02 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Ok I would rather a more peaceful happy stress free existence so maybe stop with the issuing of challenges, not necessary to prove myself, since I'm already battle-tested.

Just finished my 5th step, a re-telling of my 4th. I feel amazingly lighter and freer. Truly a freedom step. Truly a gift and a good bit of work there.

Celebrating with a milkshake, lol and a few peanut m&ms ... will start the healthy eating tomorrow.

Waiting for a call from friend. I remembered something interesting tonight - I'd asked the Universe to put someone in my life and within a couple weeks there he was. I am eager to participate in the unfolding of this, whatever it will be.

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860630
08/08/19 11:18 AM
08/08/19 11:18 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Good morning all. Chatted last night before sleep, just as promised. Wow, someone who does what he says he's going to do, imagine that. Also ended conversation with 'talk to you tomorrow' .... hm.

Last night after my 4/5th steps I felt so great, like I was on a pink cloud. It felt amazing to get all that out. I felt so good and optimistic about the future, whatever it will be. Now it's today, a cloudy, rainy day here. Queen's 'You're my Best Friend" came on the radio, which always reminds me of exh, as we used to sing it to each other whenever we heard it, and I flashed through all the things I'd written about and also the good times too. I got a little teary eyed. I loved him so much. There was a time when we were really happy, and it wasn't just in the beginning, it was in the middle also. Other than his initial diagnosis of hypothyroidism, when his numbers were in the three digits and he was completely bananas, the vast bulk of our relationship was loving, supportive, kind. I trusted him in a way that can only come with time and deep intimacy. I miss that and wonder if I will ever have that again with anyone. Truth is I miss him - the guy I married not the guy who divorced me. I miss him like I miss my Dad, someone who is gone and doesn't walk this earth any longer.

I'm trying to flip it - instead of wondering if I'll ever have something like that again, I'm reminding myself how lucky I was to have it at all, because not everyone gets that. I used to say that to exh often - we are so lucky to have the life we have. I don't think he grew to feel the same, obviously, and that's a d@mn shame for all of us.

I guess the point is to be grateful, turn my face to the horizon, feel the wind and look to the future, whatever that may be, with a clear mind and heart.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860633
08/08/19 11:43 AM
08/08/19 11:43 AM
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Beautiful words and sentiment. A very freeing perspective. That was wonderful to read first thing this morning.

Let today’s rain splatter against your horizon gazing face; rain is short lived and the sun is just above the clouds.


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860645
08/08/19 12:28 PM
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bttrfly,

I know exactly how you feel. I think we're kind-of in the same place. My divorce was finalized a few months before your divorce.

My ex-wife was my best friend; we'd finish each other's sentences. And then she got a new best friend and that broke my heart. But as silly as it sounds, I truly believe all of the bad stuff has put me on a new trajectory that's far better than I could've imagined in my former life. As a famous Canadian said, "Sometimes you have to burn everything to the ground so you can rise out of the ashes and become something new and better." (Paraphrased.)

So, yes, I agree that gratitude is important. I'm extraordinarily grateful that the bad stuff lead me to a new and better path.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860672
08/08/19 02:00 PM
08/08/19 02:00 PM
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(((Btrrfly))). That’s how I feel too. Gratitude for the good times and the gifts I have gotten because of my relationship with H but also the gifts I received when he abandoned me. I too had the same fear and I also survived. There is a strength that comes from going through something like this, isn’t there? I am grateful for that too. I hope your relationship with your friend continues to grow. (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: These Old Shades [Re: doodler] #2860764
08/09/19 12:22 AM
08/09/19 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by doodler
bttrfly,

I know exactly how you feel. I think we're kind-of in the same place. My divorce was finalized a few months before your divorce.

My ex-wife was my best friend; we'd finish each other's sentences. And then she got a new best friend and that broke my heart. But as silly as it sounds, I truly believe all of the bad stuff has put me on a new trajectory that's far better than I could've imagined in my former life. As a famous Canadian said, "Sometimes you have to burn everything to the ground so you can rise out of the ashes and become something new and better." (Paraphrased.)

So, yes, I agree that gratitude is important. I'm extraordinarily grateful that the bad stuff lead me to a new and better path.




Doodler .. yes, exh and I would do the same Re: finish each other's sentences. And no, that belief does not sound at all silly to me. There's a quote from a close family member of mine, like a brother to me actually, who was a brilliant psychiatrist - he said to love absolutely everything about your life because it helped make you who you are today. I believe that, and also that the people we are today are on a path that's far more in alignment with our true natures.

Gratitude? You better believe it!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860888
08/10/19 11:31 AM
08/10/19 11:31 AM
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Happy Saturday, folks in DB land!

Today I'm going to do a lot of cleaning and my hs buddy whom I love dearly (she's family at this point, 40 years into our relationship, lol) is going to come here fresh from her hair appointment to give me encouragement as I attempt to replace the belt on Dad's tractor. Wish. Me. Luck! My cousin's husband is insistent that I learn how to do this, and he's right. I need to take the next step towards self-sufficiency.

Which reminds me I need to ping her brother who is going to be my singing partner. He's back from vacation this week, and this is when we're supposed to come up with a set list, etc. Hmmm, need to also ping my cousin who wants to do the same ... he's done some acoustic stuff already, and is waiting for me to jump in. Yay!

Seems son may or may not have lost his job. Hope he's ready to pay the rent on the 15th regardless. His boss did something awful, and son was being a jerk about it, now it's not clear where he stands.

This will be the first full weekend in a long time (maybe a month or more) that I have to focus on my space. I scored bar stools on craigslist this week for $100, 3 of em, gorgeous, like new, light wood, made in Italy, rush woven seats. They look fabulous and fit the budget perfectly!

And... I will be having dinner tonight with my friend. . . who I think is definitely trending in the same direction I've been trending in, although neither one of us has brought that up yet. Something tells me a conversation is heading my way soon.

Hope everyone has a beautiful day! xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860889
08/10/19 11:58 AM
08/10/19 11:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 26,417
Southern Maryland
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Good luck in changing the belt on the tractor. Once you learn how to maintain these things, it will become second nature to you. BTW, have you tried to look up the instructions on line? I have found some of those sites to be great and easy to follow.

You got a great deal on the bar stools. I'm sure they look wonderful in your home.

Sorry to read about your son. I hope he didn't lose his job.

Bttrfly, you sound like you are digging yourself out of that dark hole. I am so glad to see you are doing something for yourself and not just for your home. You need that down time to recharge your battery.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860933
08/11/19 12:20 AM
08/11/19 12:20 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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So. I do not know what to make of this.

We texted this morning, though not about dinner. He went to his event at 2 ... was supposed to call me so we could meet for dinner.

Radio silence.

He has never ever done anything like that.

I texted about two hours ago - hope everything is ok ... made a joke. No response.

I fed son and myself, because well, clearly we are not having dinner. Took a shower. Now am in bed. Texted him again. Hey I gather we are not having dinner. Hope everything is ok.

No idea what to think.

And, the belt did get put on but the pulley seems to have seized as the tractor blade isn't turning. So, belt needs to come off and we need to analyze this to see which pulley might be seized and we may need to replace the bearings. My friend wants us to take a crack at it. Can't for a few weeks. Going to hang out with her brother next Saturday, working on a set list.

Thoughts, anyone? This is very out of character for him. I hope he's ok.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860967
08/11/19 02:12 PM
08/11/19 02:12 PM
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DnJ Offline
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Good Morning bttrfly

Have you heard from him?

I am with you, this does seem out of character. I hope he is ok too.

If you haven’t heard from him yet. Perhaps a bit stronger text. Something along the lines of “Are you ok? I am worried. If you need some space and do not wish to talk right now that is fine. Please just let me know you are ok.”

Hugs bttrfly.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2860991
08/11/19 06:03 PM
08/11/19 06:03 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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got a text
'its too late" with a sad face emoji.

my response - yes, I've already eaten, taken a shower and am in bed.

the people hosting the party wanted to talk to him after everyone else left and were very embarrassed to have me come because the other guests were a new group of people they're interacting with who are apparently odd, and they don't know me well enough to be comfortable having me there too, because they were worried I would judge them harshly. Obviously they don't know me because they don't know how odd I am, lol - j/k. I wouldn't judge them by their guests. Anyway, I get it and he was there til 2am because they didn't want him to leave and had a lot to talk about, obviously.

He and I just talked on the phone for over an hour. mostly him talking about different things, me listening. he said he would have rather hung out with me and had an earlier night for himself. We are seeing each other tomorrow night after work.

I dunno. I'm less enthused about moving beyond friendship here, to be honest, but I have to also remember that I was ridiculously late for meeting up with him three times in the past month and a half due to my misjudging summer traffic, and he was upset but wouldn't admit it. I should cut him the same slack he cut me on those occasions.

It's interesting to see my responses when things come up in a quasi-romantic relationship. Lets me know how I guess I really feel about it: ambivalent, at best, right now.

I have to go to a friend's impromptu birthday party that I found out about an hour ago. I have a million things to do and do not have time to spend two hours in the car, but she's very dear to me so I'm going.

Feeling out of sorts and cranky. >:p


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861014
08/11/19 10:08 PM
08/11/19 10:08 PM
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kml Offline
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Here's the question - did you text or call him when you were going to be late?

Nothing prevented him from just texting you "dinner isn't going to work out tonight, I'll tell you about it tomorrow ". That's the problem here. It's not about the flaking or whatever. It's just about extending the common courtesy of letting you know he wasn't going to make it. The

Re: These Old Shades [Re: kml] #2861023
08/12/19 01:08 AM
08/12/19 01:08 AM
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did I ?... the last time definitely. not sure about the others ... I really cannot remember.

and yes. that's what bothers me, that he did not, and that is very atypical of him.

so... ugh


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861055
08/12/19 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
I dunno. I'm less enthused about moving beyond friendship here, to be honest, but I have to also remember that I was ridiculously late for meeting up with him three times in the past month and a half due to my misjudging summer traffic, and he was upset but wouldn't admit it. I should cut him the same slack he cut me on those occasions.

It's interesting to see my responses when things come up in a quasi-romantic relationship. Lets me know how I guess I really feel about it: ambivalent, at best, right now.

I can definitely empathize with you here. I have, in the past, (and even admitted here) had feelings for a good friend and it is kind of a weird place to be when they seem to reciprocate that there is some level of interest, but there is kind of a stand-off when it comes to actually initiating anything or even having an open discussion about it. it does lead to a feeling of ambivalence, which then makes you wonder what you are even doing/thinking...if that makes sense.

I'm glad he did finally text you, even if it was late. Sending positive vibes your way!


Me 49, XH 51
3 adult daughters from his first marriage
3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter
My 1st marriage, his 2nd
BD 9/29/2014
H moved out 10/6/2014
H filed D 11/4/2014
D final 12/17/2014
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861208
08/13/19 01:32 PM
08/13/19 01:32 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Thx Dawn. Yes, makes perfect sense. I usually go one step further, makes me wonder why bother with a relationship at all, with anyone. Perhaps too extreme of me.

We got together yesterday after work. He was tired and cranky from little sleep and two very late nights. My boss called three x in the first 2 hours we were hanging out which annoyed me to no end, as it wasn't anything that needed my input or attention.

We grabbed some food and ate outside. He wanted to talk about what's going on with him. Has nothing to do with me or potential us or anything like that, just a private issue he's dealing with. As we walked back to the car I put my arm through his, he didn't pull away. I put my head briefly on his shoulder. Then we both kind of pulled away at the same time.

I dunno, I felt like we aren't on the same page, but that's probably not a truly fair assessment as he is really grappling with something he needs to deal with that's really bothering him. I guess I'm noticing what a handful I can be. He pointed out that he was going to watch a movie on Saturday morning but instead spent the time texting back and forth with me for over an hour, when I said he blew me off Saturday night. One does not negate the other, but I def see the point he's making also.


Here's the truth: I deeply loved my exh. I miss him. I cannot have him. He no longer exists. The man who divorced me is so far removed from the person I spent the bulk of my life with that the two are barely recognizable as being the same person. I miss being in a relationship. I miss the emotional intimacy and deep love and caring that I thought I had. I feel like Dad's death has brought all that grief up again. Tomorrow is my remaining auntie's birthday. We will get together to visit before I bring mom to the dr for a palliative care assessment. i don't know how much time mom's got left. She's stable right now, I think, but I'm not sure.

Am I trying to make this more than it is? I don't know. I felt like this about him before Dad passed, so I really don't think it's a grief reaction. I think I'm going to stop thinking about it and anything else for the next while and focus on getting my house ready for the birthday party I want to throw for my dad's birthday. I want to have the whole family over and any friends of Dad's who want to come, just to spend the day and relax and enjoy each other. Maybe tell nice stories about Dad. Mom thinks it is a bad idea, but she always thinks this sort of thing is a bad idea and ends up really enjoying herself.

Whatever is going to happen is going to happen, whether I worry it do death or not. Better to let it all go and stay open to whatever is coming my way. Might be him. Might be someone else. Might be a new puppy. Who knows!?

Feeling sad today though, for sure. Miss my dad a lot. He'd have really enjoyed the two deer I saw in my back yard early this morning. Hope you all have a nice day xo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861213
08/13/19 01:59 PM
08/13/19 01:59 PM
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doodler Offline
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Originally Posted by bttrfly

Here's the truth: I deeply loved my exh. I miss him. I cannot have him. He no longer exists. The man who divorced me is so far removed from the person I spent the bulk of my life with that the two are barely recognizable as being the same person. I miss being in a relationship. I miss the emotional intimacy and deep love and caring that I thought I had. I feel like Dad's death has brought all that grief up again. Tomorrow is my remaining auntie's birthday. We will get together to visit before I bring mom to the dr for a palliative care assessment. i don't know how much time mom's got left. She's stable right now, I think, but I'm not sure.


bttrfly,

I'm sorry about the difficulties right now. It seems like the bad stuff always comes in clusters. I feel your pain. You'll get through this; hang in there.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861247
08/13/19 06:47 PM
08/13/19 06:47 PM
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(((bttrfly))) - I think those of us who hang around here well beyond our divorce and whatever closure that may have given us do so because we are those who are capable of loving and on holding on to what is precious to us. Even when it doesn't exist any more.

When the full import of my ex-wife's affair hit me, I nearly didn't survive the impact of that. There were some very scary close calls. Even now I still lurk around, muse about what she's up to, whether she's happy. This despite like you, knowing that the persons that we loved so intensely don't exist any more. Whether they ever did is a subject for another debate, but our reality was that they did.

I know that I will never have the same depth of shared history, of inside jokes, of intimate moments with anyone else. And that makes me sad just like it does with you too. I mourn this. You in fact helped me find words, images and tools to do that.

You are a couple of years younger than I am, but we are at that stage of life where we seem to be losing more things than we gain. It's tough. I've lost my spouse, my partner, my love. My children while I know they care for me are both distant from me. My parents and grandparents passed many years ago.

I was chatting literally just moments ago online with a good friend who is angry at me because he feels that I need to aggressively re-invent myself. But I like the person that I am and I know that you like you. Without a loose thread to pull on, how do we knit something new? And yes, this has perhaps turned in to being about me too much and using too many metaphors as usual.

I am trying right now to look within myself for that "fire" I used to have, just like I am sure you did too. The old fires are done and gone - we need to look at how new ones can be kindled.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861317
08/14/19 12:15 PM
08/14/19 12:15 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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thanks Doodler and Andrew.

My co-worker quit. Not quite 4 months in. She did this last Monday because our boss yells all. the. time. and she doesn't like the work. Ok, fair enough. She took this week off so I'm doing her and my job. Fine. I was so exhausted I got to work early in order to take a meeting that was actually scheduled for next week. I did what I could of my work but had to focus mainly on hers. Didn't finish until after 6 and missed the FedEx pickup. Really a problem. Had to drive two towns over to drop off an important package containing large checks for a client. Fine. Put me on a trajectory home that I would normally never be on. And, I rear ended a woman. Both cars had to be towed. Her back bumper was pushed into her muffler, which made it un-driveable. My light assembly and bumper are pushed in such a way that I can't make a right turn. The policeman laughed when I said that I could carefully plot my drive home so I only turn left. No. can't do that. Yes, yes and I can ... I can go left up the street and then go straight and then ...no, it's not safe. Fine. Guys -- you know what a woman really means when she says, "Fine" don't you? I'm gonna leave that right there, having said Fine several times in one paragraph.

Had to wait for a tow. The other person and her husband are such nice people. I am so sorry to have caused them stress and to have met them under such circumstances. No one was hurt, thankfully. The tow truck driver was also a peach of a guy. The policeman was super nice also. This happened near a parking lot so I immediately pulled in and then got out of the car and ran over to make sure the person I hit was ok, as any decent human being would. As I did so some absolute nitwit of a twenty something goes driving by slowly with her phone out, filming it. I told her sternly that she had no right to film anything as there was nothing to see here, so move it along. Note that there was no concern that anyone was hurt ... oh no, millennials seem more concerned with viewing life behind a screen. REALLY IRKED ME. I told the policeman and he said that is his and every cop's life now. The lady was as appalled as I was. No one seems to care to help, only to "document." Tow truck driver said the same thing and this happens to him all the time too. If this is how humanity is "evolving," I'm unimpressed.

So, here I am. I love my car, so I want to fix it. But man, does this bring up even more angst. My exh did a nationwide search for this car for me. Found it out west, flew there, bought it and drove it back for me. I guess it's tangible proof that once upon a time he loved me. It wasn't all for nothing, was it, the 26 years I spent with him?

My boss yelled at me again yesterday, about something this other person who just quit did. I said, "Stop yelling at me, please. You cannot keep doing this. She's leaving because of your constant yelling and she won't tell you that. Now we have to hire someone else and how are we going to keep someone if you don't change this behavior?" Had to be said. He apologized profusely but man, SUPER stressful day. Triggers everywhere. Just everywhere. Walked a freaking landmine.

I did not sleep well. Today I have a pit in my stomach. I'm not looking forward to the day. Dreading the palliative care assessment for mom. Really don't want to deal with one of my cousins who is not easy, to say the least, and my remaining aunt, who is sure to say some unkind and baseless thing about dad's care, or lack thereof and how I didn't do enough to save him. Cousin means well, but we have VERY different views on life ... auntie is demented, at best ...still hard to deal with but it's aunties birthday and I cannot back out. Who knows how many birthdays are left?

I was weirdly calm during all of this business with the accident, until I got home. I fed son, who was obnoxious until he realized how upset I was. I spoke to my friend who is concerned about me and says I really need to slow down, and take care of myself for a bit. He's right. Then I spent an hour on the phone last night with my hs buddy, who went through a divorce herself years ago. I missed exh so much, I just wanted to be held and told it would be ok. I miss my dad, who always took care of car matters.

I am hesitant about relationships because it's not like it was last time I was single - 24 and baggage free. This is a whole different thing, this post-D world we inhabit. The criteria is different. The checklist is way different in your 50s than in your 20s. I wonder if I am going to be alone for the rest of my life, or will I have what I really want, which is a loving supportive relationship with someone who loves me as much as I love him. A true partnership. I really want that, there I said it. I miss the emotional intimacy of a loving relationship, especially after a day like yesterday. Sorry for the rant. Off to the races.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861327
08/14/19 01:43 PM
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bttrfly,

It's cliche, but when it rains it pours. I'm sorry you're having a rough time of things recently. And, divorce magnifies everything because you don't have the security and redundancy of having someone you can rely on to help make things better. I know how painful it can be. (I'm going through my own stuff right now, so I completely understand.) Keep plugging along; you'll get through this rough spot and everything will be better. Unfortunately, it usually takes longer than you'd like.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861338
08/14/19 03:21 PM
08/14/19 03:21 PM
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Ginger1 Online
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I’m very sorry. I know that’s the last thing you needed right now. And as doodler said, when it rains it pours, and you just crave that person or place of comfort. One year ago pretty much to the day I got rear needed twice in one week! Had some other things go in and then they really started looking up.

I hope they start to look up for you, and we are here for you.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861365
08/14/19 06:00 PM
08/14/19 06:00 PM
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Sorry about the crummy day. You said just the right thing to the boss. How much can the boss take up slack for the lost employee instead of you? It sounds like you need to put some limits on what you will do.

I hear you on the desire to have a shoulder to lean on. Actually, for all that he turned out to be crazy, Crazy Ex-BF was really good at that.

To get there though, you need to be ready to do the work of dating. (Don't worry too much about the baggage issue. Lots of people our age have their own baggage, parents, kids, stuff. AS long as they're not living with you the baggage isn't that big a deal I find.) When you're ready and have time to date, you'll find somebody.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861392
08/14/19 08:01 PM
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So sorry that everything seems to be piling up on you. Hang in there! Better days/times are coming.


Me 49, XH 51
3 adult daughters from his first marriage
3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter
My 1st marriage, his 2nd
BD 9/29/2014
H moved out 10/6/2014
H filed D 11/4/2014
D final 12/17/2014
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861453
08/15/19 09:36 AM
08/15/19 09:36 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Thx Doodler, Ginger, Kml and Dawn. Yeah, so did NOT need this. I've decided to turn the whole car thing over ... the old "1, 2, 3 Give it to God" trick I learned years ago.

{{{{{Doodler}}}}} I know how upsetting it was for me to sell our home. Brutal. The good news is once you get through all the feelings that brings up and mourn that loss (yes, it's yet ANOTHER layer of the Divorce lasagna ), you do feel a little bit freer of the whole mess. At first while building here I tried to re-create what I'd lost, but I quickly realized this was an opportunity to create something completely different that was solely mine. Once I embraced that concept, I never looked back. This place really suits me as I am now, with space created just for son and my parents as well. It's not the same, but it's still wonderful. My friend, I wish the same for you, with less heart pangs. xoxoxo

Ginger, I remember that week for you. Ugh. And yes, things did look up for you. Thank you for the support; it means a lot!

Kml, small office. He's maxed out and cannot take on much more, which is one of the reasons he's so cranky all the time. I had to take yesterday off because we had a two hour visit in the middle of the day with the palliative care team at mom's oncology facility, so he had to cover for both of us yesterday. I'm way ahead on my editorial calendar and my marketing efforts, so really there's nothing for him to cover on my end, just phones and her stuff and I'm sure he left that for me. Our book keeper heard me say that to the boss - she and I had discussed how to tell him it was getting out of control. Made me smile to read what you wrote, as she said exactly what you did! Thank you!

Re: dating. Yes. Must be willing to do the work or you don't get the reward. That's true of everything, isn't it? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is whether I've already found someone in my friend. I feel like I'm going through a process of getting clearer about my feelings, what I like about him, if there are any red flags, etc. I'm finding out that I have a checklist (didn't have one at 24), and he ticks off a lot of the boxes I didn't even know I had. I've also decided it's time to lean back on that as well and see what he does with that. Because my life has more demands, I schedule things in advance. His life is far more simple and he doesn't think about it until he's got the free time. I can't live that way right now, so I am usually the one asking if he wants to do something. I don't like feeling like I'm chasing because I have to have it set up a week ahead. I remember how surprised and happy I was when he called me and asked what I was doing and to meet him at a show in an hour if I could. Spontaneity isn't something I can really indulge in right now, but I'm sure like everything that will change as my responsibilities shift. Anyway, long way of saying, is it him? Not sure but it's time to also do the "1, 2, 3 Give it to God" trick on this too. He's told me some stories in the past week about his early dating experiences (think teen years) and in both instances he said he didn't know how he felt about these ex-gfs until they were gone. Makes me think leaning back is a good thing to do for a number of reasons beyond my own very busy life.

Hi Dawn and thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I agree that better days are coming. Mom always says that - "it won't always be like this" is her mantra to me since BD. Thank you for the support. I know you had feelings for your friend. I remember reading your posts and smiling and being eager to see how that would unfold for you. I was disappointed that it didn't work out, but you wouldn't have met Sparky if it had, and look where your life is headed now! So I will lean back and see what unfolds for me.

So Mom is on hospice officially. She clearly needs more support and they get it. The oncologist wants her in assisted living, but agreed with me when I said a change in environment might be the worst thing right now. If we can get her services to support her at home, there's likely to be a better outcome. The goal isn't longevity, but quality. Her neck pain is excruciating, esp when she doesn't wear the collar and she refused to put it on yesterday, so she was in absolute agony by the time they finally came in an hour late for her appointment. They prescribed lidocaine patches for her which I hope help the pain. I'm going to try acupuncture for her. See if that calms things down.

I have so much to do but opted to take a nap, so fell asleep until son woke me up when he got home from work. It was a 3 hour nap. I got up, made dinner and fed everyone then went back to bed and slept for another 6.5 hours. My self care plan includes a pedicure in my future. That always makes me feel good. Add to the critter count: there was a coyote at the tree line in my back yard yesterday, apex predator cruising through looking for lunch. I've seen no evidence of a den or an established territory. My cat stays indoors and my dog is always with me when he's out so I'm not concerned. Now waiting eagerly to see if the local bobcat ventures through. That would be something! maybe someone will gift me a critter cam for my birthday - boy, would I love that!

Please send good wishes for the car adjuster that he realizes how special and rare my car is and takes that into account when he inspects it.

Hope all have a good day xoxo Happy Thursday already!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861461
08/15/19 11:50 AM
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Good Morning bttrfly

I’m glad that “fine” day is behind you. Sorry, it sounded really stressful, as well as a few other adjectives that job would censor and admonish me for using. So fine it is. <Shudder> Male instinct with that word.

Good for you telling you boss about his behaviour and affect on you and the office. It needed to be said. Hopefully he not just heard you, he really listens.

I’m with you on the state if the world. Yeah, too many people documenting their lives, their food, everything - and end up not living and enjoying it. When they look at the world through a small cell phone screen window - that’s what they see - a small bordered world. The boundaries - the plastic bezelled edge of a small plastic screen projecting the world to their numb eyes. Not many roll up their sleeves and dig in anymore. Too afraid to get documented perhaps.

I am thinking about your comment on our check lists for dating, and how they are different, 50s vs 20s. Are they really all that different? I mean the important stuff? Perhaps we just didn’t realize we had some of those items on our lists back in the 20s. And perhaps we don’t need some if the ones we’ve placed on now.

I think a box that needs to be ticked for him and you is willingness to compromise. That does not mean to give something up, sometimes things get planned and sometimes spontaneity is way, for example.

I’ve been thinking about this idea of 50s vs 20s, the times of dating in our worlds. In the 20s we were quicker to roll up our sleeves and dig in. Ah innocence. Perhaps it’s an ingredient we’ve misplaced. Baggage aside, your relationship with friend has much innocence, it is just starting to bloom, no need to drag past and unrelated stuff into it. There is a certain amount of innocence one can reclaim.

How many items are on your list due to hurt and fear, as apposed to hope and passion?

Hope today is good to you.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861470
08/15/19 01:12 PM
08/15/19 01:12 PM
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doodler Offline
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
{{{{{Doodler}}}}} I know how upsetting it was for me to sell our home. Brutal. The good news is once you get through all the feelings that brings up and mourn that loss (yes, it's yet ANOTHER layer of the Divorce lasagna ), you do feel a little bit freer of the whole mess. At first while building here I tried to re-create what I'd lost, but I quickly realized this was an opportunity to create something completely different that was solely mine. Once I embraced that concept, I never looked back. This place really suits me as I am now, with space created just for son and my parents as well. It's not the same, but it's still wonderful. My friend, I wish the same for you, with less heart pangs. xoxoxo


bttrfly,

Thank you for the kind words.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2861725
08/17/19 01:15 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ


I am thinking about your comment on our check lists for dating, and how they are different, 50s vs 20s. Are they really all that different? I mean the important stuff? Perhaps we just didn’t realize we had some of those items on our lists back in the 20s. And perhaps we don’t need some if the ones we’ve placed on now.


For me, yes. I have things on my list that I never even considered the last time I was single, at the dawn of civilization.

Originally Posted by DnJ

I think a box that needs to be ticked for him and you is willingness to compromise. That does not mean to give something up, sometimes things get planned and sometimes spontaneity is way, for example.


Nope. No need. The talk was all it took. Awareness raised. Issue resolved. For me it was feeling like I was always the one initiating. Now I get it, he gets it and we're good.

Originally Posted by DnJ

How many items are on your list due to hurt and fear, as opposed to hope and passion?

Hope today is good to you.

DnJ


You really had me thinking there. Most of the really important things, the dealbreakers, are new. Why? Because I was too innocent at 24 to even know to ask for these things. I thought they were a given. I have found out the hard way that they aren't. So, perhaps hurt from bad experience has put them on the list, but any future relationship will be better for having them there. Or another way of saying it: If they aren't there, I'm NOT going to be in the relationship, period.

A benefit of divorce is that I now know what works for me and what does not. I'm willing to compromise on a lot of fronts but not on certain things because I know what I need to feel secure and happy in a relationship, and I know what makes me miserable and drives me bonkers.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861728
08/17/19 01:24 PM
08/17/19 01:24 PM
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Ginger1 Online
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I’m sorry I have been self absorbed these past few days.

You have so much going on right now and admire the way you handle it. I’m sorry about your mom. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be. I was a hospice nurse and you will get incredible support. And support for you. Take it.

When you go through divorce and come here and try to save a marriage, your out look on dating is so different. You have tools that not many possess. And it will take a strong understanding man to get that. And you will find you need more than you thought. Because you are good by yourself. You won’t be finding someone to make you happy. What they give you has to add. I think it’s a tall order for some. I think it might be harder to be a partner to someone who has it together and has developed their own lives and happiness. Those people don’t take crumbs or BS. You are one of those people. Your partner will respect and admire you and work with you. And it will be awesome. Never settle for less. It’s out there. Maybe harder to fine, but worth it when you do.

Take care of you. It’s so important

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861730
08/17/19 01:26 PM
08/17/19 01:26 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Doodler, anytime. I know this is hard but you will get through it


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: Ginger1] #2861736
08/17/19 02:16 PM
08/17/19 02:16 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ginger1
I’m sorry I have been self absorbed these past few days.

Honey you just got blindsided. No worries. You are not being self absorbed at all, imho.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
You have so much going on right now and admire the way you handle it. I’m sorry about your mom. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be. I was a hospice nurse and you will get incredible support. And support for you. Take it.

Absolutely! We had two hospice organizations to choose from. I'm not sure which to go with. The one that I know is outstanding will give mom PT but it would be a new PT, not the guy she loves. He's with a different hospice. Not sure what to do. Going to ask my cousin who just went through this with my auntie. I think auntie was on 5 times so likely she used both organizations.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

When you go through divorce and come here and try to save a marriage, your out look on dating is so different. You have tools that not many possess. And it will take a strong understanding man to get that. And you will find you need more than you thought. Because you are good by yourself. You won’t be finding someone to make you happy. What they give you has to add. I think it’s a tall order for some. I think it might be harder to be a partner to someone who has it together and has developed their own lives and happiness. Those people don’t take crumbs or BS. You are one of those people. Your partner will respect and admire you and work with you. And it will be awesome. Never settle for less. It’s out there. Maybe harder to fine, but worth it when you do.

Take care of you. It’s so important


Ty honey. I realized when typing my response to DnJ that there's a glaring red flag here for something with my friend. He is struggling mightily with setting healthy boundaries particularly with one person who is really taking serious advantage of his kindness. I'm helping and supporting as a friend would, but I have to say this. My ex's inability to firmly set healthy boundaries with a toxic friend led to a lot of problems in our marriage. So, if he cannot figure this out this will never be more than a friendship. That's not something I'm willing to live with again.

There's something else. I'm very drawn to him emotionally, spiritually and mentally. Physically is something else. I cannot tell if it's because I'm traumatized, or if it's just not there. I don't even know if that makes sense. I never talk about the physical side of a relationship because for me that's highly private, but I will say that exh and I were incredibly attracted to each other, and that lasted for the vast majority of our relationship for him, and continued through our separation and divorce for me. I don't know if it's possible to ever find that again, I'm so very picky. And the loss of that and rejection by exh with his body shaming comments, etc, has created a form of PTSD that I don't know if I can ever overcome. I don't even know how to overcome it. Suggestions welcome as this is huge for me.

I have a photo of me from ten days before my 50th bday, no makeup, 10 or 12 pounds heavier than when exh said I'd be a knock out if I could just lose the weight. I'm a freaking knock out with the weight. I think I need to put that photo on my nightstand to remind me not to believe what exh said. I'm now 40 pounds heavier than that photo. Protection pounds, tbh. They may have suited me while I was in the worst of the divorce ashes, but they don't suit me any longer. The only man I've been physically attracted to since my divorce was beautiful to look at but completely b@tsh!t crazy, like if I got into a relationship this is gonna end in restraining orders kind of thing. There was no chance and he attracted and repulsed me at the same time because hey who doesn't love aqua eyes, but mentally he was so out there. My point is, it was safe to be attracted to him, because I was never going to get involved with him once I realized how nuts he was.

This week I had to attend an after work function and met someone whom I found attractive, which surprised me. He's married, so there will be no follow up, but maybe I'm not as numb from the neck down as I think I am. Maybe I really am not attracted to friend. Or maybe I'm just so absolutely terrified of getting hurt again that I shut down completely in this area. I have no idea how to parse this.

Am I nuts or has this ever happened to anyone else?


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861740
08/17/19 02:25 PM
08/17/19 02:25 PM
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DnJ Offline
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Good Morning bttrfly

Originally Posted by bttrfly
...last time I was single, at the dawn of civilization.

LOL.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
You really had me thinking there. Most of the really important things, the dealbreakers, are new. Why? Because I was too innocent at 24 to even know to ask for these things. I thought they were a given. I have found out the hard way that they aren't. So, perhaps hurt from bad experience has put them on the list, but any future relationship will be better for having them there. Or another way of saying it: If they aren't there, I'm NOT going to be in the relationship, period.

Well said. I never had dealbreakers at 24, never had a deal break so spectacularly. As you say, didn’t even know to look for those things.

And, I had me thinking too. smile

Totally agree with you. Lots of my items are from the hurt, pain, and fear. Looking at them I realized that those same items are the very things I am passionate about and desire - the dealbreakers. Born from hurt and fear, and flourish in hope and passion. Kind of strange for a bit, and then well no, it makes sense.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I know what I need to feel secure and happy in a relationship, and I know what makes me miserable and drives me bonkers.

So true!

Bonkers - smile Ya, had enough of that too.

I know you are willing to compromise and like seeing where you draw your line in the sand. Thanks for sharing, not many people around IRL living this path. It’s nice to get some qualified feedback.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861759
08/17/19 05:29 PM
08/17/19 05:29 PM
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DnJ Offline
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Hi bttrfly

Had a delay over here. S18 showed up to move his computer desk.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Am I nuts or has this ever happened to anyone else?

No, your not nuts. I am living it too. Or we are both nuts. smile

I too have a friend I am attracted too. She has beautiful brown eyes and lovely cheek bones. And enough red flags that it looks like a parade is passing by.

Irrationally, for a while, I was totally intoxicated by her. Rationally, I knew it just couldn’t work. But, boy oh boy, how one’s mind tries to justify that it could. Oh well, shield, sword, and time; here I am.

This lovely gal works with me. I see her everyday, and she is just not in a place that works for me. Quite a thing to have thrown in the mix with divorce, fear, confidence issues, and all those other feelings we work through.

I do find myself attracted to more of the person’s mind than body. Weird, since for XW and I it was very much like you and XH, lots of physical attraction which lasted through out. A few reasons I believe for this are because we are older, and wiser. Those dealbreakers on our tick lists, we know the high importance of them.

Also this forum play a part. For a few years we interface, share, and heal, all without ever seeing or physically meeting our friends and journey’s companions. We learn about, and grow friendships, all within the mental, emotional, spiritual realm. An absence of physical contact becomes a sort of new default.

I believe, and experienced, that experiencing that almost forgotten physical touch - holding hands, walking arm in arm, hugs, etc... - rekindles and awakens that slumbering desire again. Awakens the awareness of it. The lovely gal at work, I did find myself once walking to our cars parked spaces apart, walking like a three legged race, my arm around her shoulders, her’s around my waist. Heart racing, irrational feelings welling up, and logic receding away. However, I have a strong mind, and let her go - that night and many times since. Most times mentally, but there have been some further physical contacts, which definitely woke something up, and again I worked and let go.

PTSD, oh yes, definitely. Our spouse’s say things, and do things. Our default from years of relationship is to believe them. They had direct access to our belief system, we gave them the keys, we trusted them, we promised our lives to them, never realizing they were going to explode and destroy so much. Being blown apart, things get in much easier, and our spouse’s words are a pervasive poison. It is hard to transmute that - not impossible, just hard.

Our spouses say some nasty stuff and we eat it up. We all have our versions of “body shaming” comments to accept our way through. My XW’s were not mostly about me physically, although there were some, even though OM is far worst a specimen than I. smile Her comments ran too my intellect, my emotions, my confidence, my reason, my logic, my driving, even my financial savvy. All complete projections by her, and spoke about her - not me. A strange thing to live though.

Our spouse’s are irrational and grasping at straws, rationalizing their mixed up feelings anyway they can. Not so unlike how my mind would want to justify things working out with that lovely gal. It’s just that MLC is on a much greater scale and beyond their ability to work through or accept.

My suggestions to overcome is to first realize that you can. You must believe it is possible.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
And the loss of that and rejection by exh with his body shaming comments, etc, has created a form of PTSD that I don't know if I can ever overcome. I don't even know how to overcome it. Suggestions welcome as this is huge for me.

Quote
I don't know if I can ever overcome, even though I don't even know how to overcome it yet.

It follows a similar path as detachment, or letting go of fear. Find that irrational connection and cut it, uncouple it. See those body shaming comments, H’s ideas and comments, and how you made them your’s. Let those wither. Find your beliefs and feed them.

By the way, some physical contact will go along way to realizing the truth - you are desirable bttrfly.

It’s a path you’ve walked, we’ve all walked. It’s taken this long to get this point, you stand at the cusp of something else, something new. It’s leap of faith time. You’ve done it before, found many insights and strength within you. This particular growth will seem as unachievable and unknowable as past ones - until you get there - right until it isn’t.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
...maybe I'm not as numb from the neck down as I think I am. Maybe I really am not attracted to friend. Or maybe I'm just so absolutely terrified of getting hurt again that I shut down completely in this area. I have no idea how to parse this.

All good questions and looking within.

Understanding will come, when you least expect it. You cannot force the answers, they will present themselves - in time.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861761
08/17/19 05:49 PM
08/17/19 05:49 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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thx DnJ ... I know you are correct, revelations will happen in the fullness of time. I feel like a feral cat in regards to relationships, lol. give me space and have a lot of patience.

so my only comment is it's not usually a good idea to fish off the company pier, especially with the queen of the red flag parade, but you know that.

had to talk to ex yesterday whew nellie, that MLCr is so far into the tunnel he may never see the light of day again. talked about our son. I'm glad I do not have to talk to ex regularly. weird truth.

ok off to hang with a musical partner, working on our future set list perhaps, lol. should be fun. I've cleaned a bit, now time for some much needed down time.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2861794
08/18/19 11:19 AM
08/18/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline OP
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bttrfly  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ


Our spouse’s are irrational and grasping at straws, rationalizing their mixed up feelings anyway they can. Not so unlike how my mind would want to justify things working out with that lovely gal. It’s just that MLC is on a much greater scale and beyond their ability to work through or accept.


Yes, they are irrational about some things but not this. This is/was his reality. He did not find me attractive any longer. It may be that his vision was skewed, but he truly placed no value on me on any level, and that hurt runs to the core. I don't know how to excise it.

Or more accurately, I've done an excellent job of excising it until the potential of a new relationship comes up. Then it all re-surfaces and I'm at a loss on how to proceed. The extra weight I've put on doesn't help. The point is I'm not happy with myself right now in this arena. Keto here I come.



Originally Posted by DnJ

My suggestions to overcome is to first realize that you can. You must believe it is possible.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
And the loss of that and rejection by exh with his body shaming comments, etc, has created a form of PTSD that I don't know if I can ever overcome. I don't even know how to overcome it. Suggestions welcome as this is huge for me.

Quote
I don't know if I can ever overcome, even though I don't even know how to overcome it yet.

It follows a similar path as detachment, or letting go of fear. Find that irrational connection and cut it, uncouple it. See those body shaming comments, H’s ideas and comments, and how you made them your’s. Let those wither. Find your beliefs and feed them.

By the way, some physical contact will go along way to realizing the truth - you are desirable bttrfly.

It’s a path you’ve walked, we’ve all walked. It’s taken this long to get this point, you stand at the cusp of something else, something new. It’s leap of faith time. You’ve done it before, found many insights and strength within you. This particular growth will seem as unachievable and unknowable as past ones - until you get there - right until it isn’t.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
...maybe I'm not as numb from the neck down as I think I am. Maybe I really am not attracted to friend. Or maybe I'm just so absolutely terrified of getting hurt again that I shut down completely in this area. I have no idea how to parse this.

All good questions and looking within.

Understanding will come, when you least expect it. You cannot force the answers, they will present themselves - in time.

DnJ


I hope you are right my friend and I will work on it. Thank you for your input. xoxoxo off to the wolves for a few hours.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2861895
08/19/19 01:26 PM
08/19/19 01:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ


It follows a similar path as detachment, or letting go of fear. Find that irrational connection and cut it, uncouple it. See those body shaming comments, H’s ideas and comments, and how you made them your’s. Let those wither. Find your beliefs and feed them.

By the way, some physical contact will go along way to realizing the truth - you are desirable bttrfly.



thank you for saying that. it's taken me a few days to be able to acknowledge that you said this.

the truth is I just don't feel desirable at all. I'm uncomfortable at my current weight. I'm hitting a bottom with the protective pounds, which is probably a good thing as the next step is to take action on that. until I feel desirable myself, it's going to be hard to destroy the exh tapes in my head and harder to believe anyone else feels that way.

time to go to work. I've already taken care of the bees, the dog, the cat, the son and the mom.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861950
08/19/19 06:35 PM
08/19/19 06:35 PM
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Posts: 14,892
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kml Offline
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The best thing that ever happened to me after my divorce from my exH (Who was a fat Nazi even when I was TOO skinny at 5'6" and 118 lbs - my ribs were sticking out!) was dating men of color who embraced my curves (and probably wouldn't have looked twice at me when I was so skinny). And let me tell you, men our age don't necessarily have perfect bodies either.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862026
08/20/19 03:47 AM
08/20/19 03:47 AM
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DnJ Offline
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Hello bttrfly

Originally Posted by bttrfly
thank you for saying that. it's taken me a few days to be able to acknowledge that you said this.

You are welcome. I’m glad you heard me.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
the truth is I just don't feel desirable at all. I'm uncomfortable at my current weight.

You’ve known me for... well... for all the time I’ve been here. What do I say about feelings?

Feelings are fleeting. Feeling can and will change. Do not solely follow them, nor make decisions based solely on them.

Quit feeding them.

This admission of your feelings is excellent. Well done! I know how hard that is. (((bttrfly)))

Originally Posted by bttrfly
until I feel desirable myself, it's going to be hard to destroy the exh tapes in my head and harder to believe anyone else feels that way.

Feelings are irrational. Think about that. Look at the irrational logic.

It’s ok by the way. It’s irrational - supposed to be like that. And please remember irrational doesn’t mean crazy nor bad nor any other weird thing; it is just not rational. You know, emotions, passions, and feelings.

So, a few days go you asked for suggestions on how to overcome this. As I said firstly, I hope you can see and believe it is possible. In truth I know you can. You have a strong mind, and you know it’s possible (don’t follow those feelings).

Next steps (not linear, maybe not even in order):

(And do know just how much I care about you)

Destroy XH’s tape in your head. You know XH is way our there. You know the non-validity of his words. Ergo the tape is destroyed. The real problem is not H’s tape playing in your head - it’s your tape playing.

XH said enough stuff, for long enough, that it became more than just fleeting feelings, it became an unwanted belief. This leads and feeds your feeling of not being desired and your projection that others will also feel that way. A fear response as well.

Four paths, and four cars - physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. Four ways to work together to overcome this.

Emotional - Acknowledge your feelings - your feelings, not anyone else’s, nor any guessed feelings from mind reading. See them and work towards acceptance. Acceptance is emotional understanding. Realize the irrational cause and affect, uncouple them. Stop feeding them and feed other ones. You are working to diminishing the unwanted belief and creating a new one.

Intellectual - Get in the car, and shut that door. Ah, so peaceful without all those pesky emotions flitting about. This mental assertive place is a source of great strength within you. That sharp sword. Look and see what XH’s words have wrought. See how that, plus your feelings, have over time created a belief. See the irrational connection(s). Rationalize them. Cut them.

You know the push and pull of feelings. You know the deepness of a belief. You know it will take time and consistency to alter and create your beliefs. A mental leap of faith. You know this is possible. You know you want it. You know you can do it. You know you are strong enough.

Change that tape girl. Come on, you have value, you have worth, and you are desirable. You are battle tested. You’ve survived and thrived. Look at what you’ve accomplished. Don’t you dare think less of yourself. You. Are. Bttrfly.

Physical - Ok, so you are uncomfortable. Walking, eating better, etc... All good things to do (and mental assertiveness will keep you on track). As health and weight improves so will your feelings and mental outlook.

The physical path is not exercising. It is the doing physical actions that result in affects to oneself - emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually. A simple example: Smile. Try it. Curve you mouth up. You instantly feel happier.

Doing physical stuff will affect your emotions and mental health. These both influence your beliefs.

Losing weight is an obvious one. However, desirable contacts. Holding hands, walking, hanging out together, etc.. Enjoy them and allow the altering of some deep unwanted ideas.

Spiritual - The beliefs, the values, the convictions. This is the slow to alter summation of our emotional outlook and our intellectual outlook. The irrational and rational combined into a single force. A strong belief is difficult to describe - you just know it is right, and feel it is right.

This is the realm of faith, not meaning religion, although if one believes this is its home. Faith in one’s self. Our deep views of who we are. Both light and dark.

When one gets all their cars lined up - physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual - life is really sweet. All facets of yourself are more or less working together and going in the same direction.

To alter, diminish, and create such a force does take a concerted effort. Mental assertiveness, one of the thing you can directly control, is key. Realize the belief you are altering. Realize it’s origin, born from poisonous words from XH. Replace it with something much better.

- - - -

I’ve had poisons within me. Felt worthless. Felt undesirable. Felt unwanted. I reinforced those feelings. I believed what XW was selling herself. It took time to purge that belief. Took time to let it go.

I had some incredibly kind and helpful people along my path. People who really made a difference. You are one of those people. You are one of the people who allowed me to believe I could believe something else - to believe in me.

I get where you are, and what you are facing. I know, first hand, it is possible. To encourage you - I do feel desirable and worthy again, and I believe it.

Believe in yourself bttrfly, I certainly do.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862047
08/20/19 12:25 PM
08/20/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,657
Canada
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AndrewP Offline
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AndrewP  Offline
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Any word on the car? Going to get your sweet wheels back on the road any time soon?


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2862066
08/20/19 02:04 PM
08/20/19 02:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Hello bttrfly

Originally Posted by bttrfly
thank you for saying that. it's taken me a few days to be able to acknowledge that you said this.

You are welcome. I’m glad you heard me.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
the truth is I just don't feel desirable at all. I'm uncomfortable at my current weight.

You’ve known me for... well... for all the time I’ve been here. What do I say about feelings?

Feelings are fleeting. Feeling can and will change. Do not solely follow them, nor make decisions based solely on them.

Quit feeding them.



Not gonna happen DnJ. I'm an empath, and kinesthetic. Feelings aren't facts, I get that completely, but I am not comfortable at this weight. I look at photos of myself and do not like what I see. I do not feel well, healthy, energized. I need to take care of this for my own wellbeing. In this case, feelings are facts as the bottom line is I'm heavier than I've ever been and can't physically do some of the things I enjoy doing because I sit all day at a desk, sit hours a day in a car and don't do a bit of exercise to counteract all that.

Originally Posted by DnJ
This admission of your feelings is excellent. Well done! I know how hard that is. (((bttrfly)))


It wasn't hard at all. this is just the way it is and I need to do something about it. Harder by far to admit having feelings for my friend. I don't know how I feel about that yet. Still working it out.

Originally Posted by DnJ

So, a few days go you asked for suggestions on how to overcome this. As I said firstly, I hope you can see and believe it is possible. In truth I know you can. You have a strong mind, and you know it’s possible (don’t follow those feelings).

Next steps (not linear, maybe not even in order):

(And do know just how much I care about you)

Destroy XH’s tape in your head. You know XH is way our there. You know the non-validity of his words. Ergo the tape is destroyed. The real problem is not H’s tape playing in your head - it’s your tape playing.

XH said enough stuff, for long enough, that it became more than just fleeting feelings, it became an unwanted belief.


Yes. I believed him hook, line and sinker. When you grow up with emotional abuse it's unsurprising to find it in your adult relationships. That seems "normal" ... even if it didn't start out that way, over time he became every bit as much of a gaslighter as my mother.

Originally Posted by DnJ
This leads and feeds your feeling of not being desired and your projection that others will also feel that way. A fear response as well.


I don't agree. I don't like being this far above my fighting weight, it's pretty simple. I don't find it attractive. It's an assumption that others wouldn't as well, but truly how anyone else views my weight is irrelevant. It's about my own attitude and viewpoint.

Originally Posted by DnJ

Change that tape girl. Come on, you have value, you have worth, and you are desirable. You are battle tested. You’ve survived and thrived. Look at what you’ve accomplished. Don’t you dare think less of yourself. You. Are. Bttrfly.


Yes, I've accomplished a lot. I have more to do.

Originally Posted by DnJ

Losing weight is an obvious one. However, desirable contacts. Holding hands, walking, hanging out together, etc.. Enjoy them and allow the altering of some deep unwanted ideas.


I'm very confused about how and with whom I'm supposed to be holding hands with my friend. I look around this room and all I see is me.
Originally Posted by DnJ

When one gets all their cars lined up - physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual - life is really sweet. All facets of yourself are more or less working together and going in the same direction.

To alter, diminish, and create such a force does take a concerted effort. Mental assertiveness, one of the thing you can directly control, is key. Realize the belief you are altering. Realize it’s origin, born from poisonous words from XH. Replace it with something much better.


Yes, I took action yesterday and I feel worse, but I know it's a purging.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I’ve had poisons within me. Felt worthless. Felt undesirable. Felt unwanted. I reinforced those feelings. I believed what XW was selling herself. It took time to purge that belief. Took time to let it go.

I had some incredibly kind and helpful people along my path. People who really made a difference. You are one of those people. You are one of the people who allowed me to believe I could believe something else - to believe in me.

I get where you are, and what you are facing. I know, first hand, it is possible. To encourage you - I do feel desirable and worthy again, and I believe it.

Believe in yourself bttrfly, I certainly do.

DnJ


Thank you. I do believe in myself. Right now, I'm in another purging phase. Have to run to a meeting or I'd write more.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: AndrewP] #2862082
08/20/19 03:03 PM
08/20/19 03:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,833
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Any word on the car? Going to get your sweet wheels back on the road any time soon?

Hi Andrew,
No word. Company adjuster can't see the car until tomorrow. It's crap. I lose a week of my 30 days rental because they can't get to see the car. I guess I will know more tomorrow. I miss my car.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862365
08/22/19 04:11 AM
08/22/19 04:11 AM
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Car is totaled.

Cannot be repaired, frame is bent.

Mom signed onto her hospice today.

I have either a bladder or kidney infection. I'm on antibiotics and the fun pill that turns your pee neon orange. If my flank pain goes away tomorrow, then we know I'm getting better. Otherwise, maybe a kidney stone. No history of that in my family or with me.

Now I know why I was so tired yesterday I was in bed before 8pm.

Saw The Alarm tonight. Great show. Mike Peters tore it up. Sounds every bit as good if not better than he did in '86 (the last time I saw them).

I'm pretty desolate about the car and have no idea what I'm going to do for transportation.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862382
08/22/19 10:00 AM
08/22/19 10:00 AM
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flank pain is gone.

I spent almost every waking moment until 6pm in tears yesterday. the car of course isn't about the car, it's about the man who loved me once who went to extraordinary measures to get me that car. kml, I think I'm being dragged behind a two ton high performance vehicle because I haven't completely let go. and I have to.

I miss my dad. Mom is fading away, almost willing herself to go. We did the MOLST form yesterday. I can't even wrap my mind around this. I want her to be happy and pain free, but I want my mom. I feel like I'm shattering into a million pieces and I don't know how to put myself back together.

When I got into the accident, I turned it over and said, ok, whatever is going to happen is going to happen. if it's time to let go some more, then that's what it is.

a good friend of mine said when exh left, "oh. you're having such a hard time because you still love him." her own MLCr ex was emotionally and physically abusive and an alcoholic. by the time they split she was happier without him, almost immediately. me, not so much. it's really hard being the misdirected target of decades of anger. that hasn't abated.

it kills me that I can't do more for my mom. yesterday morning I just hugged her and wouldn't let go. she and I have a date for Sunday.

I think the infection is definitely being helped by the antibiotic. how did this happen? In it's usual fashion - I am not taking care of myself. I'm not drinking nearly enough water. last week I think one day I didn't even have 8 ounces of water. It's just run run run until I drop and part of me could care less if that came today. Exh has won. His intent was to inflict maximum pain and yes, he has.

So, I need to buy a new car. Not a lot of $$ to spend. Any suggestions? I'd like another of what I just lost because they are so much fun to drive and I do a LOT of driving. Not sure I can afford the repairs though.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862383
08/22/19 10:02 AM
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sorry the last post was so disjointed. I'm all over the place. obviously.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862386
08/22/19 10:45 AM
08/22/19 10:45 AM
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Ginger1 Online
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It was not disjointed. I totally understood what you were saying. You have a lot of emotionally difficult things going on right now. You are doing wonderful things for your mom. I am a nurse care manager, I’ve been an ICU nurse and a hospice nurse. And what you are doing is completely selfless and one of the hardest things you will ever do. I’ve seen family members keep their parents alive suffering for THEMSELVES and it’s awful. You are doing this for mom. It’s an incredible gift. The circle of life is very difficult. And sometimes we just go back and need our mom.

Please please please drink that water! I ended up in the hospital in The ER in December for a bad kidney and bladder infection. Almost got admitted. It’s awful. You need water and you need salt. It will help. Please take care of yourself. You are loved so much and you need to love yourself too. I’ve been there where I couldn’t care of God just took me. I worked hard to get out of that hole.

Do you take AD’s? I swore I never would, because then that would mean I was just like my mother....... ( she was major depressive) but I fell in a hole so bad a few times that I needed to get out, and they really helped. I’m still on them. I almost went off..... but decided to stay on them due to the break up and my seasonal affective disorder. I don’t want to go back to that hole .

I also believe once you have love for someone it never goes away. You will always love your ex and your ex will always love you. My ex did me extra dirty. And I have love in my heart for him. I think he has some love for me too. Same for the other 2 on my life I have loved.

If I lived closer, I would be over with water and wine and we would laugh and cry. I mean it.

I am so very sorry you are hurting so much. But please remember it will get better. And you’ve got people who care about. You will get through and come out on top again. Inpromise

Re: These Old Shades [Re: Ginger1] #2862389
08/22/19 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ginger1
It was not disjointed. I totally understood what you were saying. You have a lot of emotionally difficult things going on right now. You are doing wonderful things for your mom. I am a nurse care manager, I’ve been an ICU nurse and a hospice nurse. And what you are doing is completely selfless and one of the hardest things you will ever do. I’ve seen family members keep their parents alive suffering for THEMSELVES and it’s awful. You are doing this for mom. It’s an incredible gift. The circle of life is very difficult. And sometimes we just go back and need our mom.


yes. I can't do that to her. I love her. It's not about me, it's about her and what she wants and me helping her.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Please please please drink that water! I ended up in the hospital in The ER in December for a bad kidney and bladder infection. Almost got admitted. It’s awful. You need water and you need salt. It will help. Please take care of yourself. You are loved so much and you need to love yourself too. I’ve been there where I couldn’t care of God just took me. I worked hard to get out of that hole.

Do you take AD’s? I swore I never would, because then that would mean I was just like my mother....... ( she was major depressive) but I fell in a hole so bad a few times that I needed to get out, and they really helped. I’m still on them. I almost went off..... but decided to stay on them due to the break up and my seasonal affective disorder. I don’t want to go back to that hole .


yeah, gotta work on the water. I also bought unsweetened cranberry juice, which I have to cut with water. now that I think of it that might be a way to get to me stay more hydrated if I make that a regular thing. I was hospitalized with a kidney infection in my early 20s. Not. Fun. Had another when I first got pregnant with my son.

no to the ADs. My Dr. wants to put me on them. I'm refusing. I would rather try flower essences or straight st john's wort.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I also believe once you have love for someone it never goes away. You will always love your ex and your ex will always love you. My ex did me extra dirty. And I have love in my heart for him. I think he has some love for me too. Same for the other 2 on my life I have loved.


I dearly love the man I married. I am not the biggest fan of the man who divorced me. I see his pain and turmoil, and I have compassion for it. He told me he loves me dearly but we don't work. My DB coach said that was despair talking. The truth is, he didn't know how to do the work, and frankly I'm not sure he loved me or our son enough to try. He told me he didn't love me enough to try. I take him at his word.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

If I lived closer, I would be over with water and wine and we would laugh and cry. I mean it.

I'd have the water and you'd have the wine, lol xoxoxo

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I am so very sorry you are hurting so much. But please remember it will get better. And you’ve got people who care about. You will get through and come out on top again. I promise


Ty. It's hard. And tiring.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862390
08/22/19 11:49 AM
08/22/19 11:49 AM
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bttrfly,

I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch. When bad stuff starts cascading down on you, it can be hard to imagine ever getting back to a happy place. You'll get there, but it always seems to take longer than you'd like. I remember the line from the old country song, "If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all."

A couple of years ago I hit a deer and my car was totaled. I bought a used car from CarMax and it was a great experience and a really good deal. They don't have sales people. You can pick out a car online and then go test drive it.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: doodler] #2862392
08/22/19 12:01 PM
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thx Doodler. you are the second person to send me to Carmax. the problem is I'm used to a high performance 300 hp 6 speed manual that goes from 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. hard to find something comparable. I drive so much I'd like to have it be a pleasurable experience rather than a chore.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862395
08/22/19 12:19 PM
08/22/19 12:19 PM
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Southern Maryland
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I am so sorry that your car is totaled. I do agree w/looking at Carmax. They have some great cars out there and fairly decent prices.

I hope that you are feeling better today. Nothing worse than having orange urine while taking that medication...but the medication doesn't take long to kick in. As everyone has pointed out...lots of water, cranberry juice and I was told beer is a good one too.

bttrfly, you are a wonderful and caring daughter. You have been there for your dad and now for your mother. You can't be everywhere at the same time and having someone checking on her is a blessing in disguise. She knows that you love her and that you are doing everything you can to be there for her.

Please take care of yourself. Your body is telling you to take some "me" time and for once, please listen to what your body is telling you. I know you are juggling lots of things, but there comes a time when you need to slow down and take a few hours or even a day to focus on just you.

Feel better soon!

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862410
08/22/19 01:06 PM
08/22/19 01:06 PM
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Bummer about the car. Yes if the frame is twisted there's no way they'll let you put it back on the road. Hopefully when you get your settlement it's decent. I went on AutoTrader and Kijiji when I totalled mine about 10 years ago and found a similar car - high miles Toyota Echo and the insurance agent offered me to within a few bucks of what they were going for there. I believe your car is somewhat unique - being forearmed with that info might help.

For me, I'm going to be replacing my old Corolla - 0 to 60 in probably 5 minutes with an even lower powered Toyota C-HR. It's a comfortable car, kind of funky looking and will pull my little sailboat with little trouble I think. I tend to buy new and drive them in to the ground though. I'm more about practical, economical and slightly funky that the zoom zoom thing. My dream car - if I had a really short commute would be a Peel P50. One of the things B had to "unlearn" was her expectation was that I was a fully loaded big luxury car guy - like her ex and what I liked surprised her.

If you do consider used, a few friends of mine have had good luck with used luxury and sports cars. You "really" want to have a good mechanic in your pocket but from what they tell me the resale market for such cars is fairly reasonably priced. You'll pay extra to repair it of course, but you'll get your pep and performance. I believe that job is our resident gear-head - perhaps she has some input on that.

Glad you're feeling better ((bttrfly)) - it's a shame that all of this is happening at once on top of everything else you've been dealing with. Be kind to yourself and maybe get some extra wolf time.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862427
08/22/19 03:09 PM
08/22/19 03:09 PM
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Just popping in to offer my love and support with a big fat (((cwtch)))

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862440
08/22/19 03:56 PM
08/22/19 03:56 PM
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Job, yes I've spent some time on CarMax this morning. My car buddy is trying to tell me this is like dating. When I told him I've been on about 3 dates since exh left, he said, "Well, you better step it up with the car shopping or you'll be walking to work."

yup.

I'm looking at the S60 as a possibility, but concerns about the legroom in the back seat. I really like having a wagon. I can't go from 300 hp to the 185 in my rental. So boring. Maybe a XC70 is in my future.

I'm going to test drive some used Subarus just because I'm supposed to shop around.

Andrew, I've never ever bought a new car in my life. I don't want to take the hit on depreciation. I buy used and drive them into the ground. I've only had two volvos, both used, but I've made them last 20 years.They were both 3 years old when I bought them. I had each for 10 years. The sedan was fun, but I prefer the roominess of the wagon, as I'm always hauling stuff here and there, plus I want my dog with me and now that he's getting older, I'd like to put in an orthopedic bed rather than just his blanket so he is really comfy.

So, I guess I'll be driving lots of cars over the next little while until I find the right one. But, holy moly. I do NOT need this right now.

I'm going to leave work early and nap then meet the hospice social worker with my mom late afternoon. Westo thank you for the big fat (((cwtch))) and back at you.

I'm at my desk here at work and I'm just wiped. And Job, the neon orange side effect would be cool if I had a black light in my bathroom! But I am feeling a little dizzy, which is another side effect. I'm going to have some water and salt. Thanks G for that suggestion.

thank you everyone. xoxo


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862441
08/22/19 03:57 PM
08/22/19 03:57 PM
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oh the frame rail is bent.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862452
08/22/19 04:53 PM
08/22/19 04:53 PM
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Quote
I'm used to a high performance 300 hp 6 speed manual that goes from 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.


Well then you wouldn't like my suggestion to get a good reliable Honda or Toyota. LOL. I'm like Andrew - buy them new (you don't really take much of a hit on economy cars if you get a good deal and buy them with no frills added, and I like knowing all maintenance has been done on time) and drive them forever. I do like my RAV4 for transporting my instruments but a wagon is probably better for your dog because the SUV rides high, it would be hard to get an old dog into it.

Whatever you get remember this might be your last car, as self driving cars that we just call up on demand will probably be the norm in ten or fifteen years.

And yes - let go or be dragged needs to be your mantra right now. All of this loss and stress (even the good stress of moving into your new home) is an enormous load. You can probably use some adrenal support (I like Dr. Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilders from ICA). SAMe, ST. John's Wort, or high dose methylfolate (at 15 mg/d) may be helpful for depression. Don't forget to exercise, and work on building your social connections where you are.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: kml] #2862470
08/22/19 05:59 PM
08/22/19 05:59 PM
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I have two Toyotas. One is a Highlander and the other is a Camry. The Highlander will give you plenty of room and will seat 8 comfortably. I purchased it back in 2008 for when my father was very ill and required to go to the hospital in DC. I love it more than I do my 2014 Camry. It's good on gas and has been steady and good on snow. The Camry is a nice car as well. I always purchase new and most new cars now offer up to 2 years free oil change, etc.

Honda, Toyota and Subaru do not depreciate like the American made cars. Those three are the most reliable in my area. Very seldom do you see them in the shop for work other than the usual upkeep. Now is the time to purchase a new car or even a used one. All of the dealerships are attempting to off load their 2019's and their used cars. You might find a really good deal between now and Labor Day.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862472
08/22/19 06:09 PM
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Oh yeah, good point - it IS the best time of year to buy.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862474
08/22/19 06:12 PM
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I’ve got a Jeep Cherokee which is pretty much zero fun, but I’ve got room, and it’s really good in the snow and I have a job where I need to get to work . It’s very reliable and great on gas. I don’t drive anymore no that I live 10 min from work. There are no snow days. Next year depending on my situation I might get the wrangler I’ve always wanted next year for my 40th self birthday present.

Subaru’s are nice and reliable and fast, but expensive to fix.

Try to make this test driving as much fun as you can!

Re: These Old Shades [Re: job] #2862480
08/22/19 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by job
All of the dealerships are attempting to off load their 2019's and their used cars. You might find a really good deal between now and Labor Day.
As a bit of inside baseball I do know that auto-makers have overbuilt inventory and are really cutting back. Some of our business here where we sell in to those companies have volumes that are way down and nobody is investing in plants or big changes to model lines. If they are hurting like they were back in 2008 along with the historic low interest rates there undoubtedly will be some deals out there in the next short while. Or so I hope as I need a new car too.

On the other hand the local buy/sell page has a 1929 Chevrolet International for sale and the Planetary society is giving away a 1965 VW Convertible Bug that has been converted to electric.

Could electric be an option for you bttrfly? You'll usually get that torque you like with that power train. Maybe DnJ will weigh in about his Prius' (which I know isn't on your list).


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862503
08/23/19 12:05 AM
08/23/19 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Maybe DnJ will weigh in about his Prius

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I'm used to a high performance 300 hp 6 speed manual that goes from 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

smile smile

I’m not sure we could get two more similar (cause their both cars) yet different vehicles.

The 2019 Prius has a more zippy motor, 120 hp. No transmission, no gears, more like a variable transmission. 0-60? I’ll let you know when I finally reach it. LOL. Never timed it. It is rather peppy when needed though. My current average efficiency is 4.2 L/100 kM, or 67 m/gal(imp), or 56 m/gal(us).

I drive a lot, in three months I’ve put on 16,000 kms. The money saved on fuel would make the car payment, and then some.

The car is super comfortable, and loaded with all kinds of features. Oh, and 4 wheel drive - rear wheels are electric and turn on when needed.

My car has a bit of a special story. It is the first one delivered and sold in Canada. Kind of cool. For a while I was the only 2019 Prius around.

You should take one for a test drive. You could rule it out, and have a little fun while doing it. OR who knows... it’s a really nice car. smile

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862514
08/23/19 02:03 AM
08/23/19 02:03 AM
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OMG, 120 HP?
I'm in a rental that has 185hp
I try to accelerate. The foot LITERALLY HITS THE FLOORBOARD and NUTHIN for a full second before the car moves. It's tortuous to drive this car and it handles like it's on ice. Really bad. And it's a 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe. Only thing positive is the gas mileage in this beast.

Not sure I could manage a Prius, DnJ.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862515
08/23/19 02:11 AM
08/23/19 02:11 AM
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ty Kml, Job, Ginger and Andrew.
Good to know this is a good time to buy.
The insurance company is playing games.

I went to test drive a Volvo S60 but the salesman couldn't find the car that was on their website. I left. I didn't feel like waiting around while he figured out where it was. I felt sick and exhausted and in need of a nap. The antibiotic is definitely working, but man, I'm wiped.

Came home early from work and rested this afternoon. Mom's having a day of minimal pain. She's happy today which makes me happy too.

Thanks everyone. Keep a good thought that I will convince the insurance company to pay what the car is actually worth rather than 1/2 of what it's worth.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862532
08/23/19 11:27 AM
08/23/19 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
Not sure I could manage a Prius, DnJ.

Haha. Lol.

Well they do make a 95 hp model, in case 120 is too much. smile

HP - hamster power. smile

I really enjoyed driving my son’s Camaro. Yep, tripling the ponies under the hood makes a fun ride.

Find yourself a high performance car. But, I’d love to read the review from a Prius test drive - oh, the new adjectives I’d learn.

Good luck with the search, and I hope the insurance company comes through with a good appraisal.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862538
08/23/19 12:23 PM
08/23/19 12:23 PM
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Dear Heart,
Re: New adjectives ... this is a polite board.

So, the Insurance Adjuster is asking me for comps.

smile

Keep those good thoughts coming!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862572
08/23/19 03:28 PM
08/23/19 03:28 PM
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AndrewP Offline
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It's not the number of horses - it's how they're hitched to the wagon wink

I think you'll find that a Prius jumps off the line a whole lot faster than the Santa Fe does laugh

Good luck with the insurance adjusters - their goal is to get the claim settled as fast as possible at the least cost to the company and they are surprisingly flexible I found when you seem like you may drag things out.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862600
08/23/19 05:19 PM
08/23/19 05:19 PM
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Yeah. If I punch it, there isn’t much that I can’t beat off the line. Still 300 HP is going to outperform.

For me, twice a day, I set cruise control, drive for an hour, then turn and park. Not much traffic, lights, or anything except tractors and combines this time year.


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862604
08/23/19 06:32 PM
08/23/19 06:32 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Negotiating with adjuster and test driving Subarus I feel a bit nauseous from the medication and generally run down so I left the office probably should be home in bed napping

Last edited by job; 08/23/19 07:43 PM. Reason: edited a word for bttrfly

M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862605
08/23/19 06:32 PM
08/23/19 06:32 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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With not witch


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D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862606
08/23/19 07:05 PM
08/23/19 07:05 PM
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Kidney infections are nothing to mess with. Make sure your culture results show that your bug is actually sensitive to the antibiotics you are on now.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862609
08/23/19 07:36 PM
08/23/19 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
With not witch
I preferred "witch adjuster" - perhaps more appropriate laugh

One of my neighbours is Wiccan. She and I have a reputation around Halloween. I decorate as a pirate and she does a witch theme. One of our traditions is to go across and share our treat bags with each other. Going to soon be time to start planning and growing my pirate beard out ....

Hope you are feeling better and that the witches have done the adjusting to your satisfaction.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862658
08/24/19 04:53 PM
08/24/19 04:53 PM
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no word from the adjuster. Job thanks for the edit smile
I thought the Crosstrek was zippy and fun to drive, but that is probably because it was a stick. I kept looking for 6th gear, though. frown The interior felt cramped to me after 20 years in Swedish comfort. The dealbreakers were the lack of visibility / blindspots out the rear window and the insanely loud whistling noise in the cabin when highway driving. UGH. The Forester was pokey and boring. (my friend drives a Forester but he is not pokey and boring).

I'm crossing Subaru off the list and have come to the conclusion that I just may be a Volvo for lifer. I gave my mechanic $150 to poke around in my car to see just how much damage there really is to the frame rail. I thought I'd found a possible Volvo replacement, different model, and asked if the car had heated seats. Not having them is a deal breaker as the long car rides can be painful, and it's h3lla cold here. It doesn't and the annoying salesperson keeps emailing me trying to build rapport and only succeeding in frosting my cookies. I finally told her today to stop emailing me. I will contact her if I see anything I'm interested in. She had to get the last word and email back. WTF is wrong with millennials? When someone asks you to stop emailing them, YOU DON'T SEND THEM ANOTHER EMAIL. She just pretty much guaranteed I will not buy from her at all.

I brought my mom to acupuncture early this morning. 30 minutes later she is a new woman. The major stagnation and inflammation in her rhomboid area and neck are looser and she felt fabulous. I brought her home, tucked her in for a nap and came home, said goodbye to my friend who is traveling back down south and then went for a nap myself.

I need to buy a cordless string trimmer for the yard this weekend, and plan to go to the mini reunion in a few hours, meeting hs friends. This infection is definitely getting better with the medication, but I'm feeling quite a bit more tired than usual, and the brown pill is causing some dizziness and nausea. So I will nap as needed. I'm taking mom back for another acupuncture session next Saturday, and I will also have one myself.

My friend and I have texted a bit this week, as is the norm, but I feel myself pulling back. In the past two weeks he's told me two separate stories about his first and second real gf's from his teen years and how in both cases he didn't realize how much they meant to him until they were gone. A lot of the time I feel like I'm reaching out. He's responsive, but I want to make sure I'm not chasing here. I think it's time to focus on the many things I have going on in my life and if he wants to talk to me he knows where to find me. He did ask me a weird question about my exbf this week, asking if he was at the concert with me the other night. He seems to think exbf and I hang out together. I told him that exbf and I absolutely do not hang out together at all, haven't since he moved back here unless it's in the context of him working for me, and that's not happening any time soon.

I don't know what prompted that question but he has definitely brought up exbf more than once, in a way that I can only describe as fact finding. like he's on a mission to see whats really going on with me and exbf. he doesn't seem to believe me when I keep saying the same thing: nothing. I don't know why that is. I do know one thing: I'm generally a lot happier when I keep the focus on just living my life and squaring my stuff away, so that's what I'm doing. I've got to solve this car thing, and put my house and yard in order and heal my body. The rest will come in time, or it won't. I'm not going to fret today about it.

I should get the culture results either later today or Monday Kml and I will be sure to ask that question.

And who knows, I may meet someone at this event today. I'm open to it.

Last edited by job; 08/24/19 08:05 PM. Reason: edited a word

M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862660
08/24/19 05:18 PM
08/24/19 05:18 PM
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You are sounding really good today!!!! Have fun at the event tonight! I’m glad to hear you are feeling better.

I did acupuncture once and I did it on my lunch break at work. Big mistake because I felt like jello. It was wonderful! I am fortunate to get a huge discount through work. Have you gone for it?

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862665
08/24/19 05:30 PM
08/24/19 05:30 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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hi G, yes, I have, back when I took better care of myself, lol. It's very effective. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, for mom or myself for that matter.

I'm still lounging in bed. Really tired today. Debating on whether I should bother to style my hair for this event or go curly. thoughts?


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862668
08/24/19 05:45 PM
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Ginger1 Online
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Do your hair differently than you usually do. I’m telling you, look up curly girl method on YouTube. I’ll send you a link

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862674
08/24/19 07:24 PM
08/24/19 07:24 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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I'm in. hair drying in t-shirt as I type!!!!


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862698
08/25/19 03:53 AM
08/25/19 03:53 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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there may have been karaoke. there may be video. GAL raised to new heights. Grateful for old friends who are like family. and my hair looks FABBbbbbulous


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862699
08/25/19 04:02 AM
08/25/19 04:02 AM
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kml Offline
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Nice!!!

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862786
08/26/19 02:12 AM
08/26/19 02:12 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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there is at least one photo.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2863148
08/28/19 08:27 AM
08/28/19 08:27 AM
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BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi
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