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Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861730
08/17/19 01:26 PM
08/17/19 01:26 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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bttrfly  Offline OP
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Doodler, anytime. I know this is hard but you will get through it


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: Ginger1] #2861736
08/17/19 02:16 PM
08/17/19 02:16 PM
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Posts: 2,826
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ginger1
Iím sorry I have been self absorbed these past few days.

Honey you just got blindsided. No worries. You are not being self absorbed at all, imho.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
You have so much going on right now and admire the way you handle it. Iím sorry about your mom. I canít imagine how difficult it must be. I was a hospice nurse and you will get incredible support. And support for you. Take it.

Absolutely! We had two hospice organizations to choose from. I'm not sure which to go with. The one that I know is outstanding will give mom PT but it would be a new PT, not the guy she loves. He's with a different hospice. Not sure what to do. Going to ask my cousin who just went through this with my auntie. I think auntie was on 5 times so likely she used both organizations.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

When you go through divorce and come here and try to save a marriage, your out look on dating is so different. You have tools that not many possess. And it will take a strong understanding man to get that. And you will find you need more than you thought. Because you are good by yourself. You wonít be finding someone to make you happy. What they give you has to add. I think itís a tall order for some. I think it might be harder to be a partner to someone who has it together and has developed their own lives and happiness. Those people donít take crumbs or BS. You are one of those people. Your partner will respect and admire you and work with you. And it will be awesome. Never settle for less. Itís out there. Maybe harder to fine, but worth it when you do.

Take care of you. Itís so important


Ty honey. I realized when typing my response to DnJ that there's a glaring red flag here for something with my friend. He is struggling mightily with setting healthy boundaries particularly with one person who is really taking serious advantage of his kindness. I'm helping and supporting as a friend would, but I have to say this. My ex's inability to firmly set healthy boundaries with a toxic friend led to a lot of problems in our marriage. So, if he cannot figure this out this will never be more than a friendship. That's not something I'm willing to live with again.

There's something else. I'm very drawn to him emotionally, spiritually and mentally. Physically is something else. I cannot tell if it's because I'm traumatized, or if it's just not there. I don't even know if that makes sense. I never talk about the physical side of a relationship because for me that's highly private, but I will say that exh and I were incredibly attracted to each other, and that lasted for the vast majority of our relationship for him, and continued through our separation and divorce for me. I don't know if it's possible to ever find that again, I'm so very picky. And the loss of that and rejection by exh with his body shaming comments, etc, has created a form of PTSD that I don't know if I can ever overcome. I don't even know how to overcome it. Suggestions welcome as this is huge for me.

I have a photo of me from ten days before my 50th bday, no makeup, 10 or 12 pounds heavier than when exh said I'd be a knock out if I could just lose the weight. I'm a freaking knock out with the weight. I think I need to put that photo on my nightstand to remind me not to believe what exh said. I'm now 40 pounds heavier than that photo. Protection pounds, tbh. They may have suited me while I was in the worst of the divorce ashes, but they don't suit me any longer. The only man I've been physically attracted to since my divorce was beautiful to look at but completely b@tsh!t crazy, like if I got into a relationship this is gonna end in restraining orders kind of thing. There was no chance and he attracted and repulsed me at the same time because hey who doesn't love aqua eyes, but mentally he was so out there. My point is, it was safe to be attracted to him, because I was never going to get involved with him once I realized how nuts he was.

This week I had to attend an after work function and met someone whom I found attractive, which surprised me. He's married, so there will be no follow up, but maybe I'm not as numb from the neck down as I think I am. Maybe I really am not attracted to friend. Or maybe I'm just so absolutely terrified of getting hurt again that I shut down completely in this area. I have no idea how to parse this.

Am I nuts or has this ever happened to anyone else?


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861740
08/17/19 02:25 PM
08/17/19 02:25 PM
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Good Morning bttrfly

Originally Posted by bttrfly
...last time I was single, at the dawn of civilization.

LOL.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
You really had me thinking there. Most of the really important things, the dealbreakers, are new. Why? Because I was too innocent at 24 to even know to ask for these things. I thought they were a given. I have found out the hard way that they aren't. So, perhaps hurt from bad experience has put them on the list, but any future relationship will be better for having them there. Or another way of saying it: If they aren't there, I'm NOT going to be in the relationship, period.

Well said. I never had dealbreakers at 24, never had a deal break so spectacularly. As you say, didnít even know to look for those things.

And, I had me thinking too. smile

Totally agree with you. Lots of my items are from the hurt, pain, and fear. Looking at them I realized that those same items are the very things I am passionate about and desire - the dealbreakers. Born from hurt and fear, and flourish in hope and passion. Kind of strange for a bit, and then well no, it makes sense.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I know what I need to feel secure and happy in a relationship, and I know what makes me miserable and drives me bonkers.

So true!

Bonkers - smile Ya, had enough of that too.

I know you are willing to compromise and like seeing where you draw your line in the sand. Thanks for sharing, not many people around IRL living this path. Itís nice to get some qualified feedback.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861759
08/17/19 05:29 PM
08/17/19 05:29 PM
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DnJ Offline
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DnJ  Offline
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Hi bttrfly

Had a delay over here. S18 showed up to move his computer desk.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Am I nuts or has this ever happened to anyone else?

No, your not nuts. I am living it too. Or we are both nuts. smile

I too have a friend I am attracted too. She has beautiful brown eyes and lovely cheek bones. And enough red flags that it looks like a parade is passing by.

Irrationally, for a while, I was totally intoxicated by her. Rationally, I knew it just couldnít work. But, boy oh boy, how oneís mind tries to justify that it could. Oh well, shield, sword, and time; here I am.

This lovely gal works with me. I see her everyday, and she is just not in a place that works for me. Quite a thing to have thrown in the mix with divorce, fear, confidence issues, and all those other feelings we work through.

I do find myself attracted to more of the personís mind than body. Weird, since for XW and I it was very much like you and XH, lots of physical attraction which lasted through out. A few reasons I believe for this are because we are older, and wiser. Those dealbreakers on our tick lists, we know the high importance of them.

Also this forum play a part. For a few years we interface, share, and heal, all without ever seeing or physically meeting our friends and journeyís companions. We learn about, and grow friendships, all within the mental, emotional, spiritual realm. An absence of physical contact becomes a sort of new default.

I believe, and experienced, that experiencing that almost forgotten physical touch - holding hands, walking arm in arm, hugs, etc... - rekindles and awakens that slumbering desire again. Awakens the awareness of it. The lovely gal at work, I did find myself once walking to our cars parked spaces apart, walking like a three legged race, my arm around her shoulders, herís around my waist. Heart racing, irrational feelings welling up, and logic receding away. However, I have a strong mind, and let her go - that night and many times since. Most times mentally, but there have been some further physical contacts, which definitely woke something up, and again I worked and let go.

PTSD, oh yes, definitely. Our spouseís say things, and do things. Our default from years of relationship is to believe them. They had direct access to our belief system, we gave them the keys, we trusted them, we promised our lives to them, never realizing they were going to explode and destroy so much. Being blown apart, things get in much easier, and our spouseís words are a pervasive poison. It is hard to transmute that - not impossible, just hard.

Our spouses say some nasty stuff and we eat it up. We all have our versions of ďbody shamingĒ comments to accept our way through. My XWís were not mostly about me physically, although there were some, even though OM is far worst a specimen than I. smile Her comments ran too my intellect, my emotions, my confidence, my reason, my logic, my driving, even my financial savvy. All complete projections by her, and spoke about her - not me. A strange thing to live though.

Our spouseís are irrational and grasping at straws, rationalizing their mixed up feelings anyway they can. Not so unlike how my mind would want to justify things working out with that lovely gal. Itís just that MLC is on a much greater scale and beyond their ability to work through or accept.

My suggestions to overcome is to first realize that you can. You must believe it is possible.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
And the loss of that and rejection by exh with his body shaming comments, etc, has created a form of PTSD that I don't know if I can ever overcome. I don't even know how to overcome it. Suggestions welcome as this is huge for me.

Quote
I don't know if I can ever overcome, even though I don't even know how to overcome it yet.

It follows a similar path as detachment, or letting go of fear. Find that irrational connection and cut it, uncouple it. See those body shaming comments, Hís ideas and comments, and how you made them yourís. Let those wither. Find your beliefs and feed them.

By the way, some physical contact will go along way to realizing the truth - you are desirable bttrfly.

Itís a path youíve walked, weíve all walked. Itís taken this long to get this point, you stand at the cusp of something else, something new. Itís leap of faith time. Youíve done it before, found many insights and strength within you. This particular growth will seem as unachievable and unknowable as past ones - until you get there - right until it isnít.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
...maybe I'm not as numb from the neck down as I think I am. Maybe I really am not attracted to friend. Or maybe I'm just so absolutely terrified of getting hurt again that I shut down completely in this area. I have no idea how to parse this.

All good questions and looking within.

Understanding will come, when you least expect it. You cannot force the answers, they will present themselves - in time.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861761
08/17/19 05:49 PM
08/17/19 05:49 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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thx DnJ ... I know you are correct, revelations will happen in the fullness of time. I feel like a feral cat in regards to relationships, lol. give me space and have a lot of patience.

so my only comment is it's not usually a good idea to fish off the company pier, especially with the queen of the red flag parade, but you know that.

had to talk to ex yesterday whew nellie, that MLCr is so far into the tunnel he may never see the light of day again. talked about our son. I'm glad I do not have to talk to ex regularly. weird truth.

ok off to hang with a musical partner, working on our future set list perhaps, lol. should be fun. I've cleaned a bit, now time for some much needed down time.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2861794
08/18/19 11:19 AM
08/18/19 11:19 AM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ


Our spouseís are irrational and grasping at straws, rationalizing their mixed up feelings anyway they can. Not so unlike how my mind would want to justify things working out with that lovely gal. Itís just that MLC is on a much greater scale and beyond their ability to work through or accept.


Yes, they are irrational about some things but not this. This is/was his reality. He did not find me attractive any longer. It may be that his vision was skewed, but he truly placed no value on me on any level, and that hurt runs to the core. I don't know how to excise it.

Or more accurately, I've done an excellent job of excising it until the potential of a new relationship comes up. Then it all re-surfaces and I'm at a loss on how to proceed. The extra weight I've put on doesn't help. The point is I'm not happy with myself right now in this arena. Keto here I come.



Originally Posted by DnJ

My suggestions to overcome is to first realize that you can. You must believe it is possible.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
And the loss of that and rejection by exh with his body shaming comments, etc, has created a form of PTSD that I don't know if I can ever overcome. I don't even know how to overcome it. Suggestions welcome as this is huge for me.

Quote
I don't know if I can ever overcome, even though I don't even know how to overcome it yet.

It follows a similar path as detachment, or letting go of fear. Find that irrational connection and cut it, uncouple it. See those body shaming comments, Hís ideas and comments, and how you made them yourís. Let those wither. Find your beliefs and feed them.

By the way, some physical contact will go along way to realizing the truth - you are desirable bttrfly.

Itís a path youíve walked, weíve all walked. Itís taken this long to get this point, you stand at the cusp of something else, something new. Itís leap of faith time. Youíve done it before, found many insights and strength within you. This particular growth will seem as unachievable and unknowable as past ones - until you get there - right until it isnít.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
...maybe I'm not as numb from the neck down as I think I am. Maybe I really am not attracted to friend. Or maybe I'm just so absolutely terrified of getting hurt again that I shut down completely in this area. I have no idea how to parse this.

All good questions and looking within.

Understanding will come, when you least expect it. You cannot force the answers, they will present themselves - in time.

DnJ


I hope you are right my friend and I will work on it. Thank you for your input. xoxoxo off to the wolves for a few hours.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: DnJ] #2861895
08/19/19 01:26 PM
08/19/19 01:26 PM
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bttrfly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ


It follows a similar path as detachment, or letting go of fear. Find that irrational connection and cut it, uncouple it. See those body shaming comments, Hís ideas and comments, and how you made them yourís. Let those wither. Find your beliefs and feed them.

By the way, some physical contact will go along way to realizing the truth - you are desirable bttrfly.



thank you for saying that. it's taken me a few days to be able to acknowledge that you said this.

the truth is I just don't feel desirable at all. I'm uncomfortable at my current weight. I'm hitting a bottom with the protective pounds, which is probably a good thing as the next step is to take action on that. until I feel desirable myself, it's going to be hard to destroy the exh tapes in my head and harder to believe anyone else feels that way.

time to go to work. I've already taken care of the bees, the dog, the cat, the son and the mom.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16


ďYour task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.Ē - Rumi
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2861950
08/19/19 06:35 PM
08/19/19 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,887
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The best thing that ever happened to me after my divorce from my exH (Who was a fat Nazi even when I was TOO skinny at 5'6" and 118 lbs - my ribs were sticking out!) was dating men of color who embraced my curves (and probably wouldn't have looked twice at me when I was so skinny). And let me tell you, men our age don't necessarily have perfect bodies either.

Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862026
08/20/19 03:47 AM
08/20/19 03:47 AM
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Hello bttrfly

Originally Posted by bttrfly
thank you for saying that. it's taken me a few days to be able to acknowledge that you said this.

You are welcome. Iím glad you heard me.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
the truth is I just don't feel desirable at all. I'm uncomfortable at my current weight.

Youíve known me for... well... for all the time Iíve been here. What do I say about feelings?

Feelings are fleeting. Feeling can and will change. Do not solely follow them, nor make decisions based solely on them.

Quit feeding them.

This admission of your feelings is excellent. Well done! I know how hard that is. (((bttrfly)))

Originally Posted by bttrfly
until I feel desirable myself, it's going to be hard to destroy the exh tapes in my head and harder to believe anyone else feels that way.

Feelings are irrational. Think about that. Look at the irrational logic.

Itís ok by the way. Itís irrational - supposed to be like that. And please remember irrational doesnít mean crazy nor bad nor any other weird thing; it is just not rational. You know, emotions, passions, and feelings.

So, a few days go you asked for suggestions on how to overcome this. As I said firstly, I hope you can see and believe it is possible. In truth I know you can. You have a strong mind, and you know itís possible (donít follow those feelings).

Next steps (not linear, maybe not even in order):

(And do know just how much I care about you)

Destroy XHís tape in your head. You know XH is way our there. You know the non-validity of his words. Ergo the tape is destroyed. The real problem is not Hís tape playing in your head - itís your tape playing.

XH said enough stuff, for long enough, that it became more than just fleeting feelings, it became an unwanted belief. This leads and feeds your feeling of not being desired and your projection that others will also feel that way. A fear response as well.

Four paths, and four cars - physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. Four ways to work together to overcome this.

Emotional - Acknowledge your feelings - your feelings, not anyone elseís, nor any guessed feelings from mind reading. See them and work towards acceptance. Acceptance is emotional understanding. Realize the irrational cause and affect, uncouple them. Stop feeding them and feed other ones. You are working to diminishing the unwanted belief and creating a new one.

Intellectual - Get in the car, and shut that door. Ah, so peaceful without all those pesky emotions flitting about. This mental assertive place is a source of great strength within you. That sharp sword. Look and see what XHís words have wrought. See how that, plus your feelings, have over time created a belief. See the irrational connection(s). Rationalize them. Cut them.

You know the push and pull of feelings. You know the deepness of a belief. You know it will take time and consistency to alter and create your beliefs. A mental leap of faith. You know this is possible. You know you want it. You know you can do it. You know you are strong enough.

Change that tape girl. Come on, you have value, you have worth, and you are desirable. You are battle tested. Youíve survived and thrived. Look at what youíve accomplished. Donít you dare think less of yourself. You. Are. Bttrfly.

Physical - Ok, so you are uncomfortable. Walking, eating better, etc... All good things to do (and mental assertiveness will keep you on track). As health and weight improves so will your feelings and mental outlook.

The physical path is not exercising. It is the doing physical actions that result in affects to oneself - emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually. A simple example: Smile. Try it. Curve you mouth up. You instantly feel happier.

Doing physical stuff will affect your emotions and mental health. These both influence your beliefs.

Losing weight is an obvious one. However, desirable contacts. Holding hands, walking, hanging out together, etc.. Enjoy them and allow the altering of some deep unwanted ideas.

Spiritual - The beliefs, the values, the convictions. This is the slow to alter summation of our emotional outlook and our intellectual outlook. The irrational and rational combined into a single force. A strong belief is difficult to describe - you just know it is right, and feel it is right.

This is the realm of faith, not meaning religion, although if one believes this is its home. Faith in oneís self. Our deep views of who we are. Both light and dark.

When one gets all their cars lined up - physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual - life is really sweet. All facets of yourself are more or less working together and going in the same direction.

To alter, diminish, and create such a force does take a concerted effort. Mental assertiveness, one of the thing you can directly control, is key. Realize the belief you are altering. Realize itís origin, born from poisonous words from XH. Replace it with something much better.

- - - -

Iíve had poisons within me. Felt worthless. Felt undesirable. Felt unwanted. I reinforced those feelings. I believed what XW was selling herself. It took time to purge that belief. Took time to let it go.

I had some incredibly kind and helpful people along my path. People who really made a difference. You are one of those people. You are one of the people who allowed me to believe I could believe something else - to believe in me.

I get where you are, and what you are facing. I know, first hand, it is possible. To encourage you - I do feel desirable and worthy again, and I believe it.

Believe in yourself bttrfly, I certainly do.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me51 XW48 S22 S20 S18 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: These Old Shades [Re: bttrfly] #2862047
08/20/19 12:25 PM
08/20/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,654
Canada
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AndrewP Offline
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Any word on the car? Going to get your sweet wheels back on the road any time soon?


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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