No more co dependency. Haven't been co dependant in months. Im moving out, she's carrying on with her life. I'm carrying on with mine. As far as the victim mentality. It comes and goes. The more I become independent. The more it will go. I got plans to do some major overhauls internally and externally. Its just carrying all these realizations that I learn here and elsewhere around until I get there. I don't want her to consider recon right now, I just want to get my life right and so does she. I'm really fine with whatever outcome at this point with no expectations. Its just learning and thinking about all these new things and applying them in your life. I guess the only thing right now that disappoints me is thst people who divorce trade don't think about long term outcomes, only short term relief. Its disempowering and heart breaking. But it is what it is. Gotta keep moving forward.
I have a topic and a behavioral dynamic that I have touched upon early in my sich about 6 months ago that is still affecting me. (Its not going to matter in 15 days because I'm moving.)
I would like to cover the topic of "emotional grey rock method" and how it applies to the "narcissist vs empath" behavioral dynamic, and if anyone here has experienced, or is currently putting such "psychological techniques" into practice with their ex's.
So what "emotional grey rock" technique or method consists of to those who arent familiar with it. The grey rock method is a practice where an individual becomes emotionally non-responsive, boring, and virtually acts like a rock. Emotional detachment serves to undermine a narcissist's attempts to lure and manipulate, causing them to grow uninterested and bored. Gray Rock is primarily a way of encouraging a psychopath, a stalker or other emotionally unbalanced person, to lose interest in you.
To most of you, especially the LBS this can simply feel like the other person "growing cold" or "giving the silent treatment" torwards you. This has been going on in my sich for at least 9 months IHS.
The reason why I bring this up is because, I can see from the side of the person who is being manipulated by a true narcissist "who always feels like they are walking on egg shells" how this can be a psychological defense mechanism in preserving themselves. I get it that they are hurt, hurting, and either may have a partial reflection of us, our previous behaviors, or a reflection of themselves which has nothing to do with us
If a spouse pulls away romantically, I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it eventually at some point in time, deal with current reality that this person is who they are and chooses not to have us be a part of their lives in any form other than kids, and that's fine. But at what point does them doing this become emotionally manipulative as well? I find it to be just as childish as the silent treatment. IMHO I think it fits into the area of pop psychology, should only be given so much validity, and is emotionally numbing, and immature. I'm not saying that a distant or removed Ex spouse has to adorn us with attention and praise and laughter even if just as a friend. But when you clearly observe someone acting robotic around you, and only you for over a year, you can't help but take notice when a person is happy, and inquiring, and pleasant around everyone else but you.
So yesterday I did a lot of reading of scripture and God's word and tried to take my mind off my sich, and focus on the things that may get my mind, attitude and spirit right. That made me happy. I chose to be happy yesterday no matter what. My patience, focus and understanding is increasing. Everyday while I am away from or not in contact with XW. I try to build myself up to always be a better person regardless of who I interact with. I want to change how I perceive the world, and how I interact with it and be more positive, more compassionate, more empathetic, and more understanding. But when I go "home" my progress doesn't come unglued, but is definately met with wilfull resistance.
Here is a typical example of everyday life and the dynamics between us for the last 8 months, since XW went completely cold, started putting her needs, wants, desires for self exploration, self improvement, self entitlement to S2, That she wants to have primary custody, more money, and more experiences in life, and villianizes me constantly of the portrayal of my role and presence over the last 8 months around her, and and S2.
I came home from work, asked about S2 with XW, and went about my business. Greeted BIL. Was short but pleasant. Asked about BIL's day. Did the same with XW and left it at that. XW makes a mention that BIL's dog found a mouse in his now basement apartment. (As if she wanted me to do something about it, or as if I was in some way responsible for it.) I just replied, "Well it is fall, and they do hibernate and gather in the fall." (She thinks they are more present in the spring.) Later on with S2 while I was listening to a Christian Joyce Meyer video on relationships with yourself. (Awesome video BTW.) S2 grabbed a crayon and started writing all over the window. I tried to deter him from doing so, but it was too late. So I figured at that point I might as well let him go to town, and I would simply wipe it off later. XW eventually came out of bedroom and attempted to reprimand me for allowing S2 to do that. I explained to her that I tried to deter him and I didn't want to encourage him in doing that in the future, but by what he already did, it was pointless to stop him, and that I would take care of it and clean it off.
This is the part where it gets completely ridiculous, and reflects the dysfunctional dynamics between us for the last year or two, but more so now.) So XW went to dry erase the crayon off the window, which is a good method, (I tell her this.) but leaves a film still. I use lighter fluid or goof off to remove stuff like that because it works even better, and doesn't leave any residue behind. Although a short instance, XW proceeded to argue with me about how her method was better, and that mine uses chemicals, and I should avoid it, and that I should proceed to wipe my half of the crayon marks, and she do her side. (Not as a test of who's method is better, or division of chore, but as a division of space, in other words, "Don't do something too close to me.") I politely explain to her that although are her method is good, it leaves behind a film. That lighter fluid has naphta in it, and is meant for removing stuff like that, and dissipates quickly, and actually doesn't leave behind any chemical residue or trace. That neither one of us has to be right or wrong or better, that we both have our solutions for dealing with the issue, and that this doesn't have to turn into a petty argument, and we can utilize both methods together, but separately if she wishes.
Fast forward to later in the evening, we both play with S2, feed him, watch him, etc. She has a pleasant convo with BIL about improvement to basement. We watch a few funny YouTube videos on the TV with S2 and we all laugh. Everything is pleasant. I for the most part mind my business. XW cuts up apples for S2 to snack on, I put some peanut butter on them, S2 gets peanut butter residue in hair and hands, but nothing visually noticeable. XW smells peanut butter on him, suggests a bath, even though I gave him a bath one evening prior. It is now 8:30pm already 30 min past S2's bedtime, so I find a bath to be impractical at this point. XW makes a good valid point about other kids in daycare potentially having peanut allergies. I actually agree with her, and that she has a good point. I get him cleaned up. Wipe wash his hair, and remove his fleece. He's good to go. I get his bottle ready. I make a joke about how it would be funny if S2 was on playground at school, and a whole flock of squirrels started gathering around him because he smells like peanut butter. That he could be the squirrel wisperer. XW finds this amusingly funny, and forceably chuckles a little.
Last weekend was my weekend off with S2, but I concessions it to XW so she could attend annual family function. I mentioned this in my previous posts. I had to work Sat mandatory. But XW got to go away overnight and enjoy family. After XW called next day to check in on S2, XW COUSIN calls me from XW'S phone immediately after to give me the rundown on their fun activities, says she loves me and misses me, wishes I was there. That I miss them too, and hope they are having a good time. (I actually was invited and politefully declined.) Watching sick S2. We converse what's going on in our lives and she mentions her husband's birthday. I mention I'm getting ready to move soon. We have a really nice conversation, and end the phone call after 15 minutes. ( It's funny how XW and I are happy and fun and are ourselves around all of our own family members but around each other.)
So anywhere where I'm going with this is later on last evening, after the peanut butter incident. XW asks me if I can watch S2 for a few hours so she can go get a mani/pedi this Sat. As an assumed even trade for her watching S2 while I had to work last Sat. Even though it was technically my weekend off and I was doing her the favor willingly by watching him. She said that I could have the following weekend off. (Basically she was already deciding for me.) I told her I would have to think about it as I may be making plans, and would let her know about Sat. Also made a point that I should get to decide when to redeem the weekend I offered up out of courtesy to be fair.
These instances and requests which I encounter weekly for the last 9 months pi$$ me off silently and secretly for several reasons. Be it that I'm usually working to survive, in the midst of forcibly moving out of my own home, and that I never hardly get to arrange any leisurely or fun activities or self care for myself, because it is always requested and assumed I will swap blocks of time with XW to watch S2 during events where she goes and GAL's. Its been this way all throughout the summer, and I am a little jealous because I have had ZERO experiences this year. No vacation, no getaway, used up my PTO Vac. Week early in the year to watch S2 back in April. I am working past this jealousy, and just taking it as it is what it is. I've been good with holding the line as far as trading time depending on what she is requesting it for.
Last night I also made another joke about something trivial, I forget... Oh S2 took t shirt off, and XW made comment about him being "Magic Mike" like the stripper that Matthew McConahuey played. I replied back in a kidding way, and although I shouldn't have said it. I said "No our S2 will never be a male stripper, and that its shameful." She obviously didn't find it funny even in my over exaggerated tonality to let her know I was kidding. Ok...Then I notice XW puts on her robotic face again in front of me. Almost as if to demonstrate. "I am not responding or reacting to your comment and am ignoring you." Doing the gray rock thing again.
Now guys. Before anyone labels me as a narcissist or having narcisstic tendencies, or seeking approval or reactions, drama or validation from people. I have gotten so accustomed to this manipulative "silent treatment" for so long in IHS , that I find comical, immature, emotionally manipulative and numbing to the other person that I usually pay no mind to it. I am not seeking to reconnect or reconcile anything with anyone at this time, or win anybody over. I can literally take anyone or leave anyone at present face value dependant on their current behavior.
But every once in a while it gets under my skin because I see it for what it is. Its another person protecting themselves from any emotional interaction or attachment that they deem to be the other person in their own mind "emotionally unstable" but from my POV the only thing it accomplishes is making them even more numb and emotionally suppressive and unstable themselves as a result of doing this "Gray Rock Method."
This is what XW has been doing for the last 9 months in most interactions. She will intently stare at the TV screen, intently distract herself with her phone, with games, messages, etc in front of me or my presence, in all circumstances, avoid most eye contact, and intently preoccupy and smother S2 to remove acknowledgement of my presence when I am around S2 and her. She does however acknowledge my presence for S2. Even though I ignore it, and her, and don't pay any mind to this behavior of hers. I don't feel the need for her to be paying attention to me, but again, sometimes it just gets under my skin because it feels like some psych game, even when I am being nice just for the sake of being nice without any ulterior motive other than to be a better version of myself. She's basically demonstrating I am non existent. I called her out on it politely about 6 to 7 months ago, and it was projected onto me by her that she is just protecting herself, and I am the one playing the mind games. So its fruitless to even address it, argue about it, or resolve it. I am no longer externally reactive to it. But it does light a fire in my belly every now and again when it does occur.
I will be glad to be rid of these types of interactions once I move in 15 days as they are a huge influence on my own well being. I know... Detach detach detach. Let it roll off you like water on a ducks back.
I guess the reason why I'm writing about all this is in wondering if anyone has experienced this type of increasing dysfunction and how the cope with it, deal with it, etc. I understand why they are doing it, but that doesn't mean that I don't find it childish or manipulative.
IH, it sounds to me like you are pushing her buttons. The Magic Mike comment for example, she makes a joke and you say something back that can easily be construed as your distaste for her joke with a little "holier than thou" attitude thrown in for good measure. Now you could write a paragraph about what your real intent was and how you were joking etc. etc. but the bottom line is that is how it reads to me and more than likely she was insulted by it.
Same thing with your "better" idea on how to clean the window. She's probably thinking that nothing she does is "good enough" for you. Thus the gray rock reaction, because anything else is just going to net a lecture from you similar to the lecture you gave her on WHY your window cleaning idea is "better".
The real question here is why does her gray rock reaction push your buttons? Because she's not engaging? Grey rock is what YOU should be doing with her! Quit lecturing her! She starts cleaning the window in a way you don't like? Drink a nice tall glass of STFU and let her. She tells a joke you don't like? Smile or chuckle and go about your business.
I guess the reason why I'm writing about all this is in wondering if anyone has experienced this type of increasing dysfunction and how the cope with it, deal with it, etc.
Well..
Originally Posted by "IHLACS"
So XW went to dry erase the crayon off the window, which is a good method, (I tell her this.) but leaves a film still. I use lighter fluid or goof off to remove stuff like that because it works even better, and doesn't leave any residue behind.
Oof. Unsolicited advice.
Originally Posted by "IHLACS"
Although a short instance, XW proceeded to argue with me about how her method was better, and that mine uses chemicals
She prefers her way--your is more comprehensive, hers is more green.
Originally Posted by "IHLACS"
I politely explain..
Oof! Mainsplaining.
ICLACS, I think this was unnecessary. First, you could skip offering unsolicited advice. Second, when she disagrees, you could prefer listening, validating, and being curious to "explaining" your view. Even when you must explain your view, considering their view first often makes others more receptive.
I said "No our S2 will never be a male stripper, and that its shameful." She obviously didn't find it funny even in my over exaggerated tonality to let her know I was kidding. Ok...Then I notice XW puts on her robotic face again in front of me. Doing the gray rock thing again.
So your intent was to be silly, but your message didn't have the desired impact. If I were to wager a guess, something in that message triggered her, and the grey rock method is a means to protect herself because she felt hurt in that moment. It must feel frustrating that your once wife feels the need to protect herself. If you can intuit the trigger (e.g., AnotherStander believes she interpreted disapproval), you could avoid hitting it again. You don't have to try to avoid pushing her buttons, but it could make future interactions smoother.
I guess the reason why I'm writing about all this is in wondering if anyone has experienced this type of increasing dysfunction and how the cope with it, deal with it, etc. I understand why they are doing it, but that doesn't mean that I don't find it childish or manipulative.
Hey IH how you doing buddy?
This psych thing she's doing with ignoring you is what I got too. I endured it for weeks and weeks. Glued to the Iphone, for hours, giggling and joking with SD, SD and XW playing loud music, hanging out and laughing in the bathroom...
Let it all wash over you. Its how some XW's keep their minds busy, probably to drown out the thoughts swirling in their heads. Don't raise it with her ever again.
Nice job in moving out soon. Good place? How you going to put your personal touches on it mate?
Cheers DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Give this a read. You'll start to understand the process of how their minds got here in the first place. But more importantly pay attention to your own behaviors as well.
Im home with the kid tonight. XW was deep in her phone before not paying attention to anything around her including S2 I walked by her to go out for a smoke, and she minimized what she was doing on her phone. Then I walked back in again, and she presented like she was doing something with her thumbs while just staying on the pin lock screen. Hiding what she was looking at twice. She got all dolled up and went out.
D BIL has been living in basement the last 3 weeks. He's boffing this Colombian girl from a dating app who doesn't speak a lick of English, has kids back in Columbia, and here on a green card. He had her in the basement all last weekend. I never saw it met her. XW and I went pumpkin picking with S2 which I invited her at first, then had 2nd thoughts because she was only coming along for S2 and confirmed this. We still had fun. We had a talk about how BIL had GF over house during weekend. I didn't even know she was in the house. XW brought it to my attention during pumpkin picking. That she wanted to create some boundaries with BIL about using the garage entrance and putting a door on from kitchen to basement, and not expose BIL GF to S2. So anyway after XW left. BIL new GF showed up just now looking for him, and doesn't have a car, and is waiting for him outside.. I called XW and texted me back BIL is on his way. I have her waiting outside. I'm not letting her in the house unless BIL is here or anywhere near S2. Getting tired of these Jerry Springer drama scenarios. I need to protect myself and S2 from this craziness. But I can't because I'm moving anyway. PSA agreement hasn't been signed, and house doesn't sell until next year. Getting parental agreement in place and starting up mediation in the next few weeks. I'm calm and I'm fine and relaxed. But internally I've had it with this F@!king horse$hit. Well at least I know my moral compass is due north.
How you been mate? It does sound like Jerry Springer. I'm sorry you're going through all that stuff, but glad to hear you're keeping it calm, fine and relaxed. How long again is it til you move out? Tell us about your new place. Cheers DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
