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Originally Posted by unchien
IW - I certainly feel ganged up on at times.

The threatening undertone of a custody battle is ever-present. I can't just drop MC right now. I think it would be unwise.

However, I can go into it understanding it is what it is. It is not MC. As LH19 put it, this is "Child Safety Class" for now until my W shows me otherwise.


I know it might seem like that, but it's only bc we see what you're going through emotionally and we all know it [censored]. Big time.

There are many sides to every individual's story. We see your side of it but I'm sure there are many nuances that are not shared here. You know what's best in regards to your kids - you seem like a great dad - and if you need to do that to secure time with them then that's what you need to do.

I would consider putting any thoughts of Recon or her changing her tune in MC (at least regarding the old MR) on the back burner. Too little time has passed. Trust me - I'm going on month 12 and it's only slightly stabilized. Sort of, sometimes.

I would recommend more detachment and getting much stronger if this "MC" is to continue. Prepare for a BD every session - you'll be much better off.

Like you told me - prevent her from sending you reeling as much as possible.

Stay strong, man! smile

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Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by MLCxH
As long as you are in MC, it will be difficult to drop the rope and detach. Not saying you need to stop MC if it is benefiting you in other ways. But you need to expect to have emotional ups and downs. Try to keep any R talks in MC confined to MC and not think about them at other times. Drop expectations of any progress on R as a goal for MC. As long as R is a goal in MC you cannot really detach

MLCxH - We definitely have no R talks outside of MC. We sometimes don't have R talks inside MC.

I think MC is actually helping me detach. Just not sure it is healthy for me or my relationship with my kids.

It is not just about having talks with W outside MC but about you not thinking about it also. As long as expecting W to work towards R in MC is a goal, detaching will be difficult.

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Originally Posted by MLCxH
It is not just about having talks with W outside MC but about you not thinking about it also. As long as expecting W to work towards R in MC is a goal, detaching will be difficult.

MLCxH - Thank you. You (and the others responding) are right.

I am too focused on the direction my W is taking, and letting it stir up frustration and anger. "Just make up your mind!" has wormed its way into my brain.

I have a question though: The advice is "only go to MC if you are working on the MR". What is the reason for this advice?

A) To protect the LBS from the same mistakes we always make (i.e., a firm line in the sand we should never cross, because we don't have the emotional resiliency to handle what is likely to happen if we do cross the line).

- or -

B) Even if the LBS is fully detached, there is no value in going

- or -

C) other

I get hung up on "working on the MR" because it feels like an exercise in mind-reading.

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Originally Posted by IronWill
Originally Posted by unchien
IW - I certainly feel ganged up on at times.

The threatening undertone of a custody battle is ever-present. I can't just drop MC right now. I think it would be unwise.

However, I can go into it understanding it is what it is. It is not MC. As LH19 put it, this is "Child Safety Class" for now until my W shows me otherwise.


I know it might seem like that, but it's only bc we see what you're going through emotionally and we all know it [censored]. Big time.

There are many sides to every individual's story. We see your side of it but I'm sure there are many nuances that are not shared here. You know what's best in regards to your kids - you seem like a great dad - and if you need to do that to secure time with them then that's what you need to do.

I would consider putting any thoughts of Recon or her changing her tune in MC (at least regarding the old MR) on the back burner. Too little time has passed. Trust me - I'm going on month 12 and it's only slightly stabilized. Sort of, sometimes.

I would recommend more detachment and getting much stronger if this "MC" is to continue. Prepare for a BD every session - you'll be much better off.

Like you told me - prevent her from sending you reeling as much as possible.

Stay strong, man! smile

Thanks IW for reeling me back in =)

My frustration is in the waffling. I feel like there are 3 paths: D, MR 2.0, and continued S/Limbo. The absolute worst is the last one. The other 2 I know I can deal with. I just want to get moving on with life sometimes.

I need to refocus on meditation, perhaps increase the time. It is helping, but the last few days sent me reeling a bit and I need to regain my focus.

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U,

I feel like we have answered this several times so I am going to flip it on you and ask what are the advantages of going to MC when the WW is clearly not working on the marriage?

I think one of your problems is you get to caught up in anything you view as a positive sign from your W. Your suggested MC so you viewed that as a positive sign when clearly so far it is not the case. When your W claimed she was upset she didn't get a letter you were never able to let that go as just another thing for her to complain about.

You have to try to get to a place where you say this is BS. I'm done. I am a great father, I am a great human being. Did I make mistakes? Sure did because I'm fuching human. If you want to actively work on the marriage then I will continue with MC. If not then I'm not attending anymore. Take some time and let me know.

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Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by MLCxH
It is not just about having talks with W outside MC but about you not thinking about it also. As long as expecting W to work towards R in MC is a goal, detaching will be difficult.

MLCxH - Thank you. You (and the others responding) are right.


You are most welcome. Don't be too hard on yourself . Most of us have all been (or are) in this situation and there is a big difference in the difficulty between knowing what is the right thing to do and actually doing it given the emotions involved


Originally Posted by unchien

I have a question though: The advice is "only go to MC if you are working on the MR". What is the reason for this advice?


The other vets can probably answer this better because my thoughts are similar to yours on this. My ex-W did not want to do MC but if she had asked I would have gone. The caveat is that I would have wanted to see some benefit from it. In your case you had mentioned it helped with communication which was probably a good reason to do it. The concern I have seen in your sitch is that you have expectations from your wife in MC. You need to understand that you have no control over her actions and trying to set expectations will only drive you crazy emotionally. Being in MC and not expecting to work on the MR is again difficult to implement which puts you in a catch 22 situation


Originally Posted by unchien

My frustration is in the waffling. I feel like there are 3 paths: D, MR 2.0, and continued S/Limbo. The absolute worst is the last one. The other 2 I know I can deal with. I just want to get moving on with life sometimes.


D - the decision is final and you move on but clearly you are not at the point where you want to file and your W does not seem to be in a rush to either.

MR2.0 - this is not a path now. At least till your W decides it is a path

continued S/limbo: Since you are not planning to file for D, this is really your only option right? Yes, it [censored] but you can also look at it as a gift of time.

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Hey U, I agree with you about limbo/s it is by far the worst. Even if you make changes and take control of all other aspects of your life, we still feel powerless while in limbo.

Iím with LH here. Although my S has been only 3 months, I got to a point where I am done waiting around to see what happens and want to get past this part of my life, on to the next chapter. If W can make some desperately needed changes which are conditional for MR 2.0 great. If not no problem. I am done waiting to see and am ready to march onward. It sounds like you are getting close to the same point. Roll with the punches buddy, good luck!


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Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by IronWill
Originally Posted by unchien
IW - I certainly feel ganged up on at times.

The threatening undertone of a custody battle is ever-present. I can't just drop MC right now. I think it would be unwise.

However, I can go into it understanding it is what it is. It is not MC. As LH19 put it, this is "Child Safety Class" for now until my W shows me otherwise.


I know it might seem like that, but it's only bc we see what you're going through emotionally and we all know it [censored]. Big time.

There are many sides to every individual's story. We see your side of it but I'm sure there are many nuances that are not shared here. You know what's best in regards to your kids - you seem like a great dad - and if you need to do that to secure time with them then that's what you need to do.

I would consider putting any thoughts of Recon or her changing her tune in MC (at least regarding the old MR) on the back burner. Too little time has passed. Trust me - I'm going on month 12 and it's only slightly stabilized. Sort of, sometimes.

I would recommend more detachment and getting much stronger if this "MC" is to continue. Prepare for a BD every session - you'll be much better off.

Like you told me - prevent her from sending you reeling as much as possible.

Stay strong, man! smile

Thanks IW for reeling me back in =)

My frustration is in the waffling. I feel like there are 3 paths: D, MR 2.0, and continued S/Limbo. The absolute worst is the last one. The other 2 I know I can deal with. I just want to get moving on with life sometimes.

I need to refocus on meditation, perhaps increase the time. It is helping, but the last few days sent me reeling a bit and I need to regain my focus.


No problem, U. smile

Take a breath. Take 4 deep ones in a row. I do this several times a day when my mind starts spinning and I don't have time for meditation. It helps to center me.

I think they recommend not to go to MC with someone who doesn't want to work on the M because it protects the LBS from repeatedly getting beaten down with a series of mini-BDs spaced out at regular intervals.

It wears on a person, and if your S is truly going through a MLC or depression or whatever, then the time frame required for this to pass (if it does) is much much longer than any of us have anticipated. In order to (maybe perhaps one day far in the future) try to restart a new MR without the LBS getting fed up with being gaslit all the time, the LBS has to do all that is possible to avoid getting triggered, or letting the MLCer see the LBS in a negative light.

I'm viewing my sit differently. I'm buying time by not talking about the MR (which is dead anyway), not initiating conversations, not mind-reading, not questioning Ws actions, and basically just leaving her alone to be herself and think for herself.

Is it what I want to do? Absolutely not. Is it what i have to do to protect myself as much as possible and avoid more BDs while W works her own [censored] out? Absolutely.

If you don't want D and you can't have MR2.0, then you have limbo. It's not really a choice, it is what you are stuck with. For now.

It won't be like this forever. It's too unstable.

I recommend you take yourself out of the equation as much as possible.

I can't help with what to do with kids because I don't have any. But the vets with kids probably would know of other options than MC for securing time with them if that's what you are worried about.

smile

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I feel like those are my 3 paths as well. Limbo does stink, but only if you let it. Have fun with your kids, let go of the outcome of the situation, and be yourself.

I'm not pushing a D right now, even though i've wanted to do so repeatedly the past 3 months. I realized the only reason i wanted to push it was to try and get a reaction from her to wake her up. I'm not ready to just go push it through because i still believe we can have MR2.0. She has literally done nothing to move forward with D. I struggle with the concept of just pushing it through, probably because it isn't what I want. One thing that has hit me recently with the saying "believe nothing they say" can be applied to things in a positive way for my mindset to get through this too.

Example: She says "there is no future for us, I never loved you, and we are best just parting ways forever" I'm just putting it in the file of 'believe nothing she says' because i don't believe that stuff just as I would if she told me I'm worthless and a failure at everything i've every tried. I don't really believe anything she says anyway, but I was choosing to believe things she did say that benefitted my situation and then she would yank the rug out from under me.


Me40; W38; S12; D9
BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18
D Final 7/2020
Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
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Thanks IW and LB55.

Limbo certainly stinks.

I am much more clear-headed today now thanks to this forum. I need to stop going to MC with any expectations for now. That may mean stopping going altogether. Either way, my expectations were bringing me down.

There are parts of this limbo I enjoy. I am working out like a madman, playing basketball, I built a kitchen table, I meditate, I spend more time after work with friends.

But the parts I don't enjoy are awful: missing my kids. the financial strain. And maybe the one that is hardest to admit here: not feeling loved. On that last one I have made huge progress, but trying to "work things out" with somebody who feels no love for me is really really taxing. It is a fundamental human psychological need to feel loved. That is what we all struggle with.

Originally Posted by LB55
I realized the only reason i wanted to push it was to try and get a reaction from her to wake her up. I'm not ready to just go push it through because i still believe we can have MR2.0. She has literally done nothing to move forward with D. I struggle with the concept of just pushing it through, probably because it isn't what I want.

LB - What I am struggling with is that, more often than not, lately I feel like D is what I want.

I question myself though: Is this just my hurt feelings lashing out?

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