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Originally Posted by SteveS
Originally Posted by LH19
Yes only attend if your W is working on the marriage. How do you know? She reads the 5 Love Languages and learns yours and actively try’s to implement them. She does the homework given. She speaks positively about you in MC.

Anything less is a complete waste of money and time but of course MC is not going to tell you that.


So that basically means (if I'm hearing you correctly) that any couple that is currently S should not do MC, right? My WAW certainly knows my love language and to her credit, speaks positively about me but since we're S, we don't have much of a pathway to implementing them.

Forget about the separation.

Couples go to MC all the time and get nowhere. Misalignment of goals. They can both think they are "working on the MR" but what is really happening is they both view the MR so differently that progress cannot be made.

I had decided 2 weeks ago to view MC differently, but I got pulled off-track. Here is what I was thinking:

I could care less about 5LL right now. My W has significant relationship issues:

1. Overwhelming negativity (read Gottman on this, 5:1 positive:negative ratio in a healthy relationship)
2. Mind-reading and poor communication skills
3. Lack of empathy

For me, evidence that my W is working on the MR would involve her working on those 3 points. I don't need her to say "I have a lack of empathy" but I need to see evidence of movement or I will continue to feel that R is not healthy or possible.

This is why I advised you (Steve) to think about your W's issues. Use MC as a forum to show your "reformed NG" side. I brought up some conflict we had last week, stood my ground, and my W actually came around a little bit yesterday. I was proud of myself, didn't really see it as an evidence of movement in our MR. But it is a necessary step if we are ever going to work out, and also necessary for me in any future relationship to assert myself more. I cannot be in a MR if it depends on me continuing to be a NG.

I think there is a huge NGS trap here. It's easy to skip the hard work step and jump straight to traditional MC steps. All that stuff is meaningless. Use MC as an opportunity to assess if you think this MR can work first.

Or maybe I'm just rationalizing why I continue to go to MC...

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The thing about separations are it’s almost impossible for the WW to not love it. After living with someone for decades of putting up with their annoyances etc to have complete freedom is liberating. On top of that knowing that if doesn’t work out that the LBS has their nose so far up their ass that they can end it at anytime.

It’s like walking a tightrope with a giant net underneath. No risk with lots of reward.

As far a MC goes I would start by no longer calling it MC. Call is Child Safety Class which is bs anyways. You’re no threat to your kids.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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Originally Posted by LH19
As far a MC goes I would start by no longer calling it MC. Call is Child Safety Class which is bs anyways. You’re no threat to your kids.

I was just thinking about calling it something else!

For some reason I am super triggered today. It's probably the kid safety issue rearing its head again yesterday. There was so much other stuff in that one hour session to unpack also that I haven't even mentioned. I think I'm in heavy Negative Sentiment Override with my W right now (Gekko brought up this term in his thread).

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As long as you are in MC, it will be difficult to drop the rope and detach. Not saying you need to stop MC if it is benefiting you in other ways. But you need to expect to have emotional ups and downs. Try to keep any R talks in MC confined to MC and not think about them at other times. Drop expectations of any progress on R as a goal for MC. As long as R is a goal in MC you cannot really detach

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Get out of MC. Get into IC. MC is useless right now. LBSs think MC gives them hope But if the WAS isn't invested it just gives them a place to attack the LBS, and then later say "we even tried MC".


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Originally Posted by MLCxH
As long as you are in MC, it will be difficult to drop the rope and detach. Not saying you need to stop MC if it is benefiting you in other ways. But you need to expect to have emotional ups and downs. Try to keep any R talks in MC confined to MC and not think about them at other times. Drop expectations of any progress on R as a goal for MC. As long as R is a goal in MC you cannot really detach

MLCxH - We definitely have no R talks outside of MC. We sometimes don't have R talks inside MC.

I think MC is actually helping me detach. Just not sure it is healthy for me or my relationship with my kids.

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Originally Posted by Steve85
Get out of MC. Get into IC. MC is useless right now. LBSs think MC gives them hope But if the WAS isn't invested it just gives them a place to attack the LBS, and then later say "we even tried MC".

Already in IC, and making some huge gains lately focusing on NGS.

MC does feel hopeless to me. But I feel stuck going - we are a month into the separation, and just settling into our timeshare routine. After another month or two, once that is established, if MC continues to be "Child Safety Class" I will stop going.

If you took child safety out of it, I would suggest today we stop going to MC for awhile

However blame is assigned to the failure of our MR is not really my concern. I can't control that. I am secure with my relationship with my kids. They love me, I love them. My insecurity is that my W will cause a stir and try to withhold the kids from me via legal means.

Friends and family may decide to judge if we end up D'ing - going forward I will surround myself with positive and supportive people. Life is too short for toxic negativity. I really don't care what other people think. I worried about that for way too long, and it got me nowhere.

I shouldn't project into the future and worry about outcomes. But I do. I foresee my W willing to continue in separation for a long time, perhaps even years. It is a setup where I would have to be the one to file for D, or continue in perpetual limbo. Not ready yet, but we'll see where I'm at in 2-3 months if there is no progress.

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Originally Posted by Steve85
Get out of MC. Get into IC. MC is useless right now. LBSs think MC gives them hope But if the WAS isn't invested it just gives them a place to attack the LBS, and then later say "we even tried MC".


I agree 100 percent.

I know you're in a tough spot, U, and I'm not trying to pile on, but Steve is right.

I think as long as you are in MC you will continue to get BD'ed, every time. Sometimes by the MC as well.

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IW - I certainly feel ganged up on at times.

The threatening undertone of a custody battle is ever-present. I can't just drop MC right now. I think it would be unwise.

However, I can go into it understanding it is what it is. It is not MC. As LH19 put it, this is "Child Safety Class" for now until my W shows me otherwise.

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I was in limbo for 8 months and while I did get pretty detached you always know that technically you are still married.

Just know that if your w is out dating while you are still married it says a lot about the quality of man she is with. Unless that poonannie is amazing smile. Any man that I would have respect for would not be dating a woman that is still married with young kids at home.

If you stick to your guns, carry yourself with integrity, and run your own race eventually you will feel the power shift. You will get your confidence back, your swagger, you won’t care what she is doing, and over time she will notice. I am not saying you will recon but she will notice.

I still DB my Xw to this day. Yesterday she sent me a picture of herself, with some co-workers on a scavenger hunt at a famous athletes house. I have no clue what possessed her to share that with me.

It just takes time bro.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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