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Journal -

Tonight was our "once every 2 weeks" (bi-weekly?) call to go over logistics. We set an agenda ahead of time.

I'm only going to note the items of interest that came up:

1. Finances - We are going to talk to a financial advisor about the S. Lots of talk but the option of splitting finances was mentioned. I don't think my W realizes how financially screwed up this deal is, so I'm happy for an advisor to point it out. I think I prefer separating finances if it comes down to it - less back-and-forth conversations about expenses, budgeting, etc.

2. School - The house I moved to is in a much better school district. W mentioned if the kids have trouble at current school, maybe they could switch. I pointed out I don't want to mix up school with our S -- what if I move back to the house, for instance? -- to which she replied, "the school will never know you changed addresses." She even mentioned possibly pulling them out and homeschooling them, which would continue to be a financial disaster because she would end up working less. Another sign she is on an indefinite timeline.

3. Work - W seems to be dragging her heels a bit going back to work. Some of this is justifiable due to reasons I won't go into. I used to never mention it, trying to avoid pressure, but I brought it up in the context of finances (the advisor will want to know both of our projected incomes).

All in all, same old story. Indefinite timeline in her head, she seems in no rush to file for D either. We were cordial enough, while at the same time I stood my ground on a few things. Some stuff that would have triggered me in the past did not. It seemed a lot like a conversation that a couple going through an amicable D would have. I still want to see some indication of working on the MR in MC.

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U,

I'm not surprised she is dragging her feet on going back to work. Right now she has the best of both worlds. She has her freedom and you're footing the bill. It will be financially beneficial to her if she decides on D and she is a SAHM.

Not to beat a dead horse but this is why we don't recommend leaving the house. Everything is too easy and comfortable for her and she has zero incentive to change anything.

Continue working on you and let her sort all her $hit out on her end.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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Originally Posted by unchien
All in all, same old story. Indefinite timeline in her head, she seems in no rush to file for D either. We were cordial enough, while at the same time I stood my ground on a few things. Some stuff that would have triggered me in the past did not. It seemed a lot like a conversation that a couple going through an amicable D would have. I still want to see some indication of working on the MR in MC.


Yep, we're definitely in the same boat. No timeline, no structure, no clarity on what we're supposed to be doing or working on - just that WAW needs space to figure things out.

I'm sure the veterans will say that space in this context almost 100% means EA or PA.


Me: 37, WAW: 32
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LH19 - I'm also not surprised. Couple things I will stress up front:

1. She is going back to work, just not with any alacrity.
2. I am not allowing fear of EA/PA into my decision process. If I discover it, I file. No suspicions or evidence through this whole process.

Everything *is* too easy for her. This is a setup for indefinite limbo. My W may be completely okay with this lifestyle indefinitely. But I am not. I'd prefer to move on and forge new relationships eventually.

I need to be aware of my triggers. Right now my primary trigger is that my W continues to suggest that I was the one driving us to D or S -- whereas I went months trying to communicate with her to work things out. I need to let this go. That's her story, I can't change it.

I'm trying to sort out my plan of action going forward. There is the "MC needs to include working on the MR" piece which I have talked about before.

I also am considering pressing for financial separation, but we will first talk to a financial advisor soon. I don't want money to influence my W's feelings towards me, but I also think she needs to face the financial reality of what is happening here. If she wants a long-term S then she needs to contribute to making it work.

My W used to always use the phrase "We'll figure it out" when a problem came up. It drove me nuts. That's just kicking the can down the road and ignoring the problem. She seems to be operating in "We'll figure it out" mode right now.

Looking forward to a weekend of GAL

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Originally Posted by SteveS
Originally Posted by unchien
All in all, same old story. Indefinite timeline in her head, she seems in no rush to file for D either. We were cordial enough, while at the same time I stood my ground on a few things. Some stuff that would have triggered me in the past did not. It seemed a lot like a conversation that a couple going through an amicable D would have. I still want to see some indication of working on the MR in MC.


Yep, we're definitely in the same boat. No timeline, no structure, no clarity on what we're supposed to be doing or working on - just that WAW needs space to figure things out.

I'm sure the veterans will say that space in this context almost 100% means EA or PA.

I am going to sound like a goober and say I am convinced EA/PA is not part of my sitch. At least right now.

Even in good times, my W over-committed to friendships, kids activities, house, etc. Just not our MR especially with the kids. She's been running around all summer with the kids. Unless she's very clever about hiding things, it just isn't happening. And I know she isn't clever because pre-BD I found so much evidence about her intentions to BD me.

And anyways... if there was an EA/PA, I would absolutely file for D.

So... SteveS... no timeline, no structure, no clarity... how do we get that back? And I suspect you feel the same way I do... am I just being impatient?

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One other random thing - I like to periodically throw in some humor to throw my W off. Thanks to R2C for advocating this.

She was telling me about her D'd friend coming to visit this weekend. This friend had a nutty H who would insist she send pictures wherever she was, because he was convinced she was cheating. Actually maybe she was, I have no idea, she denied it but what do I know? I remember W's friend telling me this one day at our house several years ago, and I thought "Yeah right," and at that moment my phone started blowing up because her H was texting me to make sure she was at her house. I said, "Yes". And then he asked me to take a picture of her as further proof (as if I was in on the lie).

So last night:

W: "D'd friend is coming to visit with her daughter this weekend. I just wanted you to know that."
UC: "OK. Please take a picture of you two together at the house and text me."

I couldn't help myself, we both laughed.

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Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by SteveS
Originally Posted by unchien
All in all, same old story. Indefinite timeline in her head, she seems in no rush to file for D either. We were cordial enough, while at the same time I stood my ground on a few things. Some stuff that would have triggered me in the past did not. It seemed a lot like a conversation that a couple going through an amicable D would have. I still want to see some indication of working on the MR in MC.


Yep, we're definitely in the same boat. No timeline, no structure, no clarity on what we're supposed to be doing or working on - just that WAW needs space to figure things out.

I'm sure the veterans will say that space in this context almost 100% means EA or PA.

I am going to sound like a goober and say I am convinced EA/PA is not part of my sitch. At least right now.

Even in good times, my W over-committed to friendships, kids activities, house, etc. Just not our MR especially with the kids. She's been running around all summer with the kids. Unless she's very clever about hiding things, it just isn't happening. And I know she isn't clever because pre-BD I found so much evidence about her intentions to BD me.

And anyways... if there was an EA/PA, I would absolutely file for D.

So... SteveS... no timeline, no structure, no clarity... how do we get that back? And I suspect you feel the same way I do... am I just being impatient?


FWIW, I feel the same way - zero evidence of a EA/PA, My WAW simply threw herself into activities and friendships - so yeah, exactly the same boat as you.

I don't have the answers either right now. I do think about it the same way I think about when I was raising venture capital for my company: I needed the money more than they needed to invest in me, and therefore I had very little leverage to negotiate. In that situation, the easiest thing for the more powerful actor to do is to follow the path of least resistance. In the case of my fundraising, it would be to walk. In the case of WAW, it's to file for D.

And I get it - that's a defeatist, powerless mentality. But I think there's a middle ground: to set boundaries and timelines without necessarily pushing for a resolution. I think it's reasonable to account for the possibility that WAW in both of our cases really is confused and ambivalent.


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Originally Posted by SteveS
I think there's a middle ground: to set boundaries and timelines without necessarily pushing for a resolution. I think it's reasonable to account for the possibility that WAW in both of our cases really is confused and ambivalent.

I like this mentality - I think pressure is required in both of our situations, because our WAW's feel zero pressure. In fact, any standard advice on trial separations will say that timelines are necessary.

I'm curious what are your boundaries and timelines.

I have some obvious ones (no FZ talk, no intrusiveness into the other's time with kids, possibly financially separate, need MC to transition to working on the MR and not co-parenting coaching).

The harder one is setting a timeline, and whether to make it explicit. It would be great to say, "If X does not happen by this date, I will Y" but I just don't know what X or Y should be right now, or whether I would keep that to myself.

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Hey U -

Not really in any shape to offer support or arguments right now, but I would maybe revisit the timelines idea. It's pressure.

Trust me, I know.

Have a great weekend smile

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Originally Posted by IronWill
Not really in any shape to offer support or arguments right now, but I would maybe revisit the timelines idea. It's pressure.

It's definitely pressure.

I don't think pressure is always bad, but it's something I definitely need to reflect on more as I am not feeling very decisive. We did originally agree to a 6-month separation, but it's clear the way my W talks that is not her intent. Do I hold her to the 6 months? Would that be unnecessary pressure? I honestly don't know, and it's not something I feel I need to resolve immediately, but if I let it go things will likely drag out.

At some point in the DB process, the LBS ideally can accept any MR outcome. At that point, if the LBS feels in limbo, I don't think pressure to move in some direction is necessarily a bad thing. The trick is that the LBS can be fooled into thinking he/she is okay with any MR outcome... when reality says otherwise.

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