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#2856817 07/12/19 08:06 PM
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kiro Offline OP
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Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2856818 07/12/19 08:17 PM
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I extracted the following quote from an article about women choosing to not have kids:

ę†In order to argue ďreligion,Ē you have to believe in it, and people who believe in it arenít undecided on kids, so donít need this post. Itís for everyone who doesnít use religion, and needs discussions outside of it.†Ľ

It struck me that this quote also applies to marriage.

I think it really sums up the whole problem. Theyíre all tied together. Belief in religion, marriage, stable family, and having kids. Once this chain is broken, it all falls apart.

Last edited by kiro; 07/12/19 08:18 PM.

Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2856821 07/12/19 09:08 PM
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I agree with this, Kiro. Without religion people tend to have no true values to get them to do the right thing when they want to rebel.


M: 22, T: 27
Three Children
BD: 12/15/18
Destroyd #2856827 07/12/19 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Destroyd
I agree with this, Kiro. Without religion people tend to have no true values to get them to do the right thing when they want to rebel.


This goes for ourselves as well as our spouses. Sometimes we even BS ourselves. That a person is right for us clearly when we know that all that they are and do are all wrong for us. This is why the Bible clearly says that feelings can be deceived. It's nature to act on feelings and been that way since Adam and Eve. You need biblical principles to follow for God to guide you through your life rather than you doing it on your own "self independence" I freely admit though I am somewhat of a hypocrite because even though I know this I need to practice more of what I preach. I struggle a lot between the natural and the spiritual. I've been throwing this Dynamic out here and everyone for weeks now. You subtly see it movies like Fireproof. A man wants to be respected and trusted before he is loved. A woman wants to feel cherished and valued as well as respected and loved. Well what happens when you break your word, you disappoint, or you don't follow through. You are no longer respected. What happens when you rebell, disrespect, strive for self Independence and false confidence. Yes you grow and you empower yourself. But I'm willing to bet the next relationship won't last for the very long whole maybe short-term? Confidence income from two places either God himself, or from experience in the world. Otherwise it is self-inflating, And over compensating for some hidden insecurities. The heart can be deceived and feelings can lead us to all the wrong places even though we think it's right in pursuing them. It may also by chance lead us to the right places as well. What God is the creator Who would know better than him and his patrons that gave testimony to him and Jesus Christ. When we think we can do whatever we want that's when we feel the most pain whether five years from now or ten years from now. We have to learn to stay on the steady course. There is one for you. God reconciled himself to man for their sins and their nature who died for us to save us. I understand that people should leave if they are in a very bad in threatening situation. But IMO, not to reconcile yourself to your spouse or even make an attempt to because of all of your conflicts disagreements resentments feelings excetera and lack of understanding, cannot reconcile yourself to what Corinthians in the Apostle Paul says about marriage. But even with the horse he clearly says that he wants us to go in peace. So sometimes it is a better option. Speaking of options isn't it funny how we always compare our options outside of our own relationship and marriage? That we want to happy for filling life and that moment All That season for a Time, but we have no idea what could happen in the future for us whether we split or whether we try again. People might grow or people might change your people might fall apart. Something profound that I realizd is. Yes we have to self differentiate codependent, but do not keep a lifetime commitment means we couldn't keep any commitments to ourselves in the first place, as far as always working and improving on ourselves as individuals

kiro #2856916 07/13/19 03:41 PM
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Thanks IHCLACS for your post. I didnít understand everything you wrote, but I do agree with the overall meaning smile

Last edited by kiro; 07/13/19 03:42 PM.

Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2856919 07/13/19 04:26 PM
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Change of topics a little...

Record of my state of mind 2 years after BD and waiting for final D:

Zero bitterness. Zero anger. No bad feelings toward ex at all.

Although I still believe in family values, I accept that some people may prefer to be single or to have more freedom. Nothing wrong with that. Unluckily for me, my ex bought into that idea. Itís her right and her choice.

For the first time, I think Iím ready to be just a friend with her. I donít feel jealousy if she has a new relationship. I donít feel any need to prove anything to her.

Also, more than any time before, Iím starting to plan for my life going forward without fear of losing her forever and without regret for what we had before. E.g. Iím thinking of selling the house, moving closer to my work and to university campuses.

And I am now rethinking whether I really would want to remarry again. Like the guy said in the MR wheel video that someone had posted on my last thread (before being removed), it might be insanity to do the same thing again and expect a different result. Lol grin

Since I am against relationships outside of a marriage, this means I am considering just staying single for the rest of my life. Although I would miss companionship and especially the small things, like having brief intimate conversations and sharing day to day life, I am also enjoying my freedom. At my age (49 heading into my 50s), I think I can live without physical intimacy. I wouldnít have said that 20 years ago smile


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
Destroyd #2856920 07/13/19 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Destroyd
I agree with this, Kiro. Without religion people tend to have no true values to get them to do the right thing when they want to rebel.


I absolutely disagree with this. Belief in religion is NOT required to "do the right thing", in fact it seems the opposite is true. I know several couples who are agnostic or athiest, one couple is same-sex and they've all been married 25+ years. One of the couples over 35 years. Meanwhile I know plenty of "religious" couples that are separated or divorced. I think "religious" people tend to lean on their beliefs to justify their wayward behavior, using "I'm forgiven" or "God wants me to be happy" as an excuse to stray. People who don't have strong religious beliefs tend to work harder to fix things because they don't believe they have some kind of holy safety net to fall back on.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
kiro #2856924 07/13/19 05:11 PM
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AS, I don't believe that people need to be religious to do the right thing, but when they want to rebel, I think that religion helps people to do the right thing. The desire to rebel was the point I was emphasizing.


M: 22, T: 27
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BD: 12/15/18
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I absolutely disagree with this. Belief in religion is NOT required to "do the right thing", in fact it seems the opposite is true. I know several couples who are agnostic or athiest, one couple is same-sex and they've all been married 25+ years. One of the couples over 35 years. Meanwhile I know plenty of "religious" couples that are separated or divorced. I think "religious" people tend to lean on their beliefs to justify their wayward behavior, using "I'm forgiven" or "God wants me to be happy" as an excuse to stray. People who don't have strong religious beliefs tend to work harder to fix things because they don't believe they have some kind of holy safety net to fall back on.

AS, lol grin
I partially agree with you. I donít think successful marriages and doing the right thing are limited to religious people.

But I donít agree with your comment about religious people justifying waywardness the way you describe it. Itís funny blush but thatís not what I have in mind when I think religious people.

I think TRUE religious people will be more patient and will avoid breaking up their marriage. But their faith needs to be genuine and strong.

On the other hand, the risk for religious people is that they could stay miserably married instead of truly working hard together to improve the relationship. Atheists donít have this constraint. They will either fix it or break it.

P.S. As I said before, I donít see any difference between atheists and agnostics. By definition, belief is an act of faith. Despite the uncertainties, one decides to believe or not to believe. If one believes, he/she is a believer. If she/he doesnít, he/she is a non-believer. The non-believer may say ĎI am atheist and I know there is no Godí, but he/she only thinks he/she knows but isnít able to prove it. So in a way, all atheists are agnostics. The big difference between them and believers is that believers will commit to a religion with their acts.

Last edited by kiro; 07/13/19 05:22 PM.

Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2856933 07/13/19 06:07 PM
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From the point of view of a believer, life has a meaning. We donít believe in the absurdity of life like existentialists. We believe in an Absolute Truth. God is not an idea that we create in our mind. Existentialism and Relativism believe that reality is subjective and that each person creates their own world. Each person is a creator of their own truth.

Because there is a true meaning to life, as believers, we know that our acts matter to us and to others. Life is not an absurd haphazard thing. Marriage and family have a true purpose to individuals and to society.

Non-believers, on the other hand, donít have this moral foundation. They only take into consideration their own happiness and other pragmatic considerations. And since their views are relative and subjective, they also have a changing dynamic nature. Itís a pragmatic equation for them, and they follow their feelings and mind to make their decisions. But feelings change all the time. Also, as we grow older, we go through many physical and hormonal changes. I canít list all the reasons peopleís feelings and priorities change with time, but my point is that without a constant moral foundation such as the one that religion provides, most marriages are bound to fail sooner or later.

Of course, there are exceptions to that rule. And even religious people need to learn good relationship habits to have a happy marriage.


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
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