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Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 #2856505
07/10/19 04:33 PM
07/10/19 04:33 PM
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crdcheck Offline OP
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Original thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2853370&page=1

Quick background: Wife of nine years told me in early May that in no uncertain terms we are getting a divorce. We started counseling about a year ago where I came clean about my infidelity (serious, long-term). Changed from a road warrior job to a local job (same company as her) 4 weeks before the announcement. At this point she says she can't trust me and that I always put my needs first. We have a three year old. We were seeing a therapist for that year who wasn't pro-marriage and just switched but after the announcement (discernment session was a bust). He recommended DR and "Should I try to work it out".


M(35), W(35), D(3)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
Separated Aug 13 (W moved out)
In mediation with intent to dissolve Sept 2019
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2856508
07/10/19 04:41 PM
07/10/19 04:41 PM
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Posts: 157
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crdcheck Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Steve85
crd, agree to her wanting her own apartment. But insist that the joint account is liquidated (50/50 split) and that you both handle your own finances from this point forward. I assume you can afford the house on your own income?


I could afford the house but it would be a significant financial burden. W and I have equal salaries and our standard of living is based on dual incomes. If the house doesn't sell in a month or two it would be a problem.

I'm also of the mindset that there really isn't a benefit to paying for two homes at this point - we aren't fighting, D3 isn't aware, we still do a lot as a family, W has her own room (i.e. we don't have to see each other after D3 goes to sleep if she doesn't want to) and, because of DB, she's getting virtually no pressure from me. I'm not suggesting that she won't get the emotional space that she wants until she's physically out, but I don't see why I (and D3) should have to pay for that. Not to mention that she has a friend who she can stay with for free.


M(35), W(35), D(3)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
Separated Aug 13 (W moved out)
In mediation with intent to dissolve Sept 2019
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2856509
07/10/19 04:46 PM
07/10/19 04:46 PM
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Steve85 Offline
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Doing anything but going along with her plan will be seen as pressure and pursuit in the way of controlling. Your lives are about to change dramatically in all ways, including financially, no need to delay it. Fact: two incomes afford a higher standard of living than single income. That is a reality you both must face.

And as far as you and D3 paying for that, that is the way life works. Our decisions are not made in a vacuum. They affect other people. No way to get around that.


M(50), W(51),D(15)
M-20, T-22 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2856525
07/10/19 05:42 PM
07/10/19 05:42 PM
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Posts: 6,425
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Ready2Change Offline
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Read this and understand why I think you should make this statement:

H:"I have been thinking about what you said last night. I believe you are right. I don't think we should prolong this any longer. I think it is best if we get you setup in an apartment. I also think we should drop the price of the house so I can get a place I can afford"

I wish you well during this difficult time

R2C


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2856548
07/10/19 08:05 PM
07/10/19 08:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
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AnotherStander Offline
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Originally Posted by crdcheck
Originally Posted by Steve85
crd, agree to her wanting her own apartment. But insist that the joint account is liquidated (50/50 split) and that you both handle your own finances from this point forward. I assume you can afford the house on your own income?


I could afford the house but it would be a significant financial burden. W and I have equal salaries and our standard of living is based on dual incomes. If the house doesn't sell in a month or two it would be a problem.

I'm also of the mindset that there really isn't a benefit to paying for two homes at this point - we aren't fighting, D3 isn't aware, we still do a lot as a family, W has her own room (i.e. we don't have to see each other after D3 goes to sleep if she doesn't want to) and, because of DB, she's getting virtually no pressure from me. I'm not suggesting that she won't get the emotional space that she wants until she's physically out, but I don't see why I (and D3) should have to pay for that. Not to mention that she has a friend who she can stay with for free.


So she wants to move out before the house sells, and what, thinks she can quit paying half the bills and mortgage but still reap half the profits if and when the house sells? Here is what I would tell her- you don't care when she moves out, that's her decision to make. But she WILL have to continue paying half the bills and mortgage until the house sells AND pay 100% of her bills and rent on her new place. She can't afford that? Then tough, she has to stay until the house sells.

As far as cleaning up the kitchen, I agree with LH that you shouldn't argue about it but tell her to ask politely next time, that you don't respond well to demands but you will consider polite requests.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: AnotherStander] #2856551
07/10/19 08:19 PM
07/10/19 08:19 PM
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Steve85 Offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander


So she wants to move out before the house sells, and what, thinks she can quit paying half the bills and mortgage but still reap half the profits if and when the house sells? Here is what I would tell her- you don't care when she moves out, that's her decision to make. But she WILL have to continue paying half the bills and mortgage until the house sells AND pay 100% of her bills and rent on her new place. She can't afford that? Then tough, she has to stay until the house sells.



AS, just a followup question to this? How does he enforce this? If she moves out, and switches her direct deposit to another account, how does he enforce "you still have to pay half"?


M(50), W(51),D(15)
M-20, T-22 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: Steve85] #2856671
07/11/19 06:53 PM
07/11/19 06:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,425
Colorado
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Ready2Change Offline
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Originally Posted by Steve85
AS, just a followup question to this? How does he enforce this? If she moves out, and switches her direct deposit to another account, how does he enforce "you still have to pay half"?


Part of the divorce claims. lawyer up. Speak with a lawyer ASAP.


I was covering household bills even though I had a rental. Lawyers know the game.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2856987
07/14/19 10:40 PM
07/14/19 10:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 157
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crdcheck Offline OP
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Can't believe that it's been four days, it feels like much longer.

I've continued detaching and it honestly feels pretty good. Probably the biggest change has been that I've stopped worrying so much about how she will react and, when she explodes about something, to just calmly respond with my point of view. For example, my brother's wife invited me out for a surprise dinner with them and a couple of other friends on Friday - I accepted without talking to W (I knew that she didn't have plans - we share when we are going to be out), I just told her that I was going. She told me that she would go out Saturday night in a way that seemed like it was retaliation. That was fine with me but she didn't end up going out. Anyway, back to Friday, since the restaurant was around the corner from my house I invited everyone over for a drink beforehand. W flipped out saying that I should have asked her first and that telling her during the day was not enough time to have a conversation. Instead of arguing I asked her (this was over text) what a reasonable time frame would be, validated her feelings ("I can see how this could feel like it came out of left field") and did not respond to her provocations (W: "This is you being passive aggressive for some reason"). I also got her to agree that, before having any non-family in the house (e.g. home showings) that she would extend the same courtesy (24 hours notice, ask rather than tell).

There have been a few other "good bad" conversations (i.e. about something bad but went well) but it really doesn't matter for our marriage - I don't see any way out of our downward trajectory. Got our first offer on the house today and W is still looking at apartments. I won't say that it feels good but it's not the kick in the stomach that it was a few weeks ago. I don't really want to talk with her about it - it gives me anxiety and then I don't think as clearly (e.g. she wants to get a huge place in the most expensive part of town and I struggle to keep from saying "Good luck with doing that on a single income" rather than "uh huh" or bragging about the place I plan to get).

Overall, W seems pretty cold. We'll make dinner together and watch some TV but she's playing on her phone, basically doesn't talk (I was always the one to make conversation but I've stopped that). The hopeful person in me (ha!) thinks that she's getting some feelings and is steeling herself against them. The pessimist in me thinks that she is seeing my detachment and associated lack of yielding to her as me putting my needs first (big complaint) and is thus reinforcing her narrative.

In the DB space, I feel like I'm following a lot of the basic guidance (yay!) but missing one of the key areas - I don't have a measure for success, which means that I may be going down a "cheeseless tunnel" and not really be able to prove it. The thing is that the measures I thought about before (W back in MBR, W takes house off of market temporarily, W touches me) just aren't going to happen. Or, at least, I don't think that I have a path to these. "Never say never" and all that, but I think that that it's the right move to lower my expectations, focus on myself and my dignity. I'm not cheating, I'm "GAL-ing", I'm spending a lot of time w/ D3... that feels right to me. Thoughts?


M(35), W(35), D(3)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
Separated Aug 13 (W moved out)
In mediation with intent to dissolve Sept 2019
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2857256
07/16/19 04:12 PM
07/16/19 04:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 157
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crdcheck Offline OP
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Sent W an email yesterday with some proposed topics to cover, far more than could be done in 20-30 minutes (our new time limit for tricky conversations), bolded the ones important to me and asked her to pick the ones she wanted to cover. We talked about:

Timing/paying for her to get an apartment. Her view is that the longer we are under the same roof the more likely it is that there will be a blow up between us, that D3 senses that there is an issue, that she has more of a need to get a place locked down, and that not having a place locked down gives her anxiety. I validated (though I don't agree with all of her logic) and shared my perspective, that she is always welcome to leave, but that it will be on her dime. She tried to pull a "kitchen sink" approach (bringing in all kinds of random stories and issues) and I held to the home topic. We eventually agreed that no lease would be signed until we had a temporary custody arrangement on paper and an approach for paying for it. I didn't want it to come across as a threat but I did share that any big unilateral expenses would not be viewed as wanting to work together in D3's best interests.

Planning of weeks. We've been pretty good about letting each other know when we will be out (e.g. going to gym, doing open houses) but there have been a couple of gaps that I wanted to talk through. Good conversation overall, there were some miscommunications (W took D3 to the pool on Sunday and didn't tell me when she would be back, couldn't respond to texts because they were in the pool, which upset me - turns out she thought that she told me, and maybe I forgot).

1:1 interactions. This really boiled down to me saying that it's grating when people are messaging on their phones in front of me (and/or D3) virtually nonstop; I told her that she is fully within her rights to tell me to just deal with it but that, for me, that may mean that, when D3 is in bed, I go over to my brother's house to hang out. I don't mind being alone but I really don't like being next to someone who is so focused on someone else. She was definitely upset, threw up that I was on my phone more (I'm on my phone, but more browsing, which feels different than interacting with someone not in the same room), that we've had arguments about this in the past, and so on. I validated, said that I agree that I haven't been perfect with my phone either.

Speaking of the phone, as part of my "plan" put in place in October to improve trust I was texting W every time I left/arrived somewhere which I continued to do even after she announced the divorce. I figured that the possibility that it showed my continuing commitment to rebuilding trust outweighed the fact that it's not aligned with detaching. Anyway, she told me that I don't have to do it anymore. I wasn't sure how to respond because I know that I don't have to do anything, it's all a choice. But I don't want to ignore her boundaries. So, I asked "so you are saying that you don't want me to text?" and she danced around it a bit but ultimately said "yes". That's a disappointment because it is a nail in the trust-building coffin and I didn't bring it up, she did (i.e. it wasn't like I was asking if it helped, I don't bring up anything from my plan, etc.).

Last item: she has noticed that I "just leave" and she did acknowledge that she was irritated with it but that she had to ask herself why she was feeling that way, etc. So, while I feel that I am still on a bad path (i.e. divorce is all but a given) at least I can say that I tried something different. On the other hand, the fact that I don't initiate conversations beyond greetings (a very positive "good morning!" etc.) has led to little conversation at all which I think that she believes means that I'm angry with her (i.e. feeds into her narrative that I sulk and turn mean when I'm mad). It's not that, and I honestly feel better than I've felt in months (not always, of course), but it seems like she's so stuck in her head that she can't imagine that she could be a contributor to the environment.

I'm not sure that I am looking for any specific advice right now but if anyone has any suggestions for other "tunnels" to try I'm all ears.


M(35), W(35), D(3)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
Separated Aug 13 (W moved out)
In mediation with intent to dissolve Sept 2019
Re: Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2 [Re: crdcheck] #2857266
07/16/19 05:41 PM
07/16/19 05:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 5,703
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Steve85 Offline
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So when I read all of that I couldn't help but feel your desire to control. The fact that her phone use "bothers" you is on you! Why even discuss that. In our sitches, words are meaningless. This where you set a boundary........for YOU!

"When D3 is in bed, if W starts texting incessantly, I am going to tell her I am going out for a while and go hang at brothers."

So just do that, don't try to control her phone usage! Further, even if you do end up controlling that, do you think it will stop? Or will she go covert with it? She could be like my W and go into the bathroom for 2 hours so she could text freely with EAP. "Oh, my stomach is really upset. I kept feeling like I had to go!"

Same thing with the "in October to improve trust I was texting W every time I left/arrived somewhere which I continued to do even after she announced the divorce". Hmmmm really? Or was this your way of showing her what you require when she is out? crd, trying to control can take many forms. Manipulation. Threats. Guilt. Etc. I know how LBSs think about this because in my 2005 sitch I did the same thing. I gave all of my passwords for everything to my W. "Just wanted to be fully open with you." Remember, she is the one that had an EA in 2005.Admittedly, I was hoping in the spirit of building trust, she would reciprocate. She didn't.

So drop the rope. Stop trying to control. If she engages in things you can't handle, then get out and GAL!


M(50), W(51),D(15)
M-20, T-22 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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