So you separated without something formal, but wish in retrospect that you had something formal?
What factors do you think allowed you and your XW to stick to your informal agreement? Did you end up going through mediation?
My W and I have committed to going to MC (probably should call this "couples" or "co-parenting" counseling at this point). I think this is a critical piece to maintaining trust in each other. I know things may change along the way.
Financial - my W told me the other night that if we D she would rather have ME split up our assets than the lawyers. That she trusts how I have managed our money in the past. Obviously, this is informal. I thought she was nuts. Even I wouldn't trust myself to do it correctly.
Custody - written or not, if we trial separate and let's say we have a 50/50 custody arrangement (informally), that plays when it comes to the law. As long as that's what we're doing during the trial separation I am not really concerned.
The bigger piece in support is spousal support in my state. As much as I don't care about money right now, and it sounds cold, it will only benefit me to assist my W in getting back to work during the separation.
Based on how my XW and I communicated we did not put anything formal into place but when she moved out we came to a financial agreement on our own and custody arrangement. If my XW and I could not come to an agreement or I felt like she was not considering my best interests as well then I would have pursued something formal.
We did not go through mediation. My XW and I sat down at the kitchen table and hammered it out with no mediation or lawyers. We only paid a lawyer to write up what we agreed upon. In the end I got 50/50, kept our family home and pay my XW $850/mth until my kids are 18.
It all depends on the ability of you and your wife to agree with each other. If you both can truly work and be considerate of each other it will save you thousands of dollars. That said if either one of you feel like you are being taken advantage of or if she gets outside council from her parents, friends, etc. she could do a complete 180.
My XW and I did not have anything major to divide up outside of retirement, savings, and a couple of other things that was done pretty easily. No joint businesses, property or anything major like that so it was pretty cut and dry.
I know you want to assist your W, etc. but remember this if you don't listen to anything else. WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING UP FOR WILL IMPACT YOU FOR THE NEXT 15 TO 20 YEARS AFTER YOU HAVE MOVED ON AND ARE COMPLETELY DETACHED FROM YOUR WIFE.
U, Fade is not being alarmist at all. He is offering good, sound advice based on having seen many similar situations play out over the years. As you'll recall many of us suggested not moving out in the first place, but I completely agree with him that if you do move out, you should put an agreement in place because once you move out you have zero negotiating leverage and will have to live with whatever scraps your W decides to throw your way.
I am not sure why you see a written separation agreement as divorce. That's not it at all. It is simply an agreement working out the details of the separation. It's common practice. I did one with my XW when she moved out. We didn't get D'd until nearly 2 years later. You need to quit looking at everything emotionally and detach and look at it like a business transaction because that's really what it is.
I think J9 just elaborated on what you were asking U. I understand that you're aware of not confusing 'trust' with 'hoping for recon'. If there's that 'trust', then there shouldn't be a big problem hammering out the details in an amicable manner. the details have long term consequences. This is separating your emotions from what practically needs to get done.
Based on how my XW and I communicated we did not put anything formal into place but when she moved out we came to a financial agreement on our own and custody arrangement. If my XW and I could not come to an agreement or I felt like she was not considering my best interests as well then I would have pursued something formal.
TBSakaJ9 - Thank you for your feedback. It sounds like you went through a process which I hope to do as well, but need to tread carefully.
What did you have to agree on financially during your separation?
Custody is my priority right now. If I feel like she is not considering my best interests on custody, it will be a huge red flag. So far this is a work in progress. It's complicated.
During the 6 months, we have summer (kids out of school) and fall (S7 and D5 in school, D3 in pre-school 2 0.5 days a week where the parent has to go). W is planning to go back to work PT.
I want to come up with something that accommodates her work plans, my D3's pre-school schedule, and D5/S7's after-school activities, and yet meets my custody goals. W has agreed to share her detailed schedule plans so we can discuss this in detail. She also agreed to my request to take the kids on vacation this summer, which helps with the natural imbalance because they are at home all day every day this summer. It also depends when I move, I may take some Friday's off, etc. At least as of today, I think we can work something out. But it needs to be done before I move. I've been quite clear that I need to be comfortable with our plan for the kids in order to do this.
Financial I don't really worry about. We agreed to run large expenses (above a fixed dollar amount) by each other. We don't plan to split accounts, etc. Not to be crude about it, but we are both saying we are willing to spend a large sum of money to attempt this separation. Financially it's bad for both of us. She would be better off today if she went straight to D. She could demonstrate more custody, and zero income. So again not to be crude, I'm fairly trusting on the financial stuff. Money is traceable, etc.
What we agreed upon was who would pay for what bills, my XW works but would not have been able to afford to move out if she did not receive any money from me. Either I pay and she moves out or I don't pay and she stayed in the house and we did in house separation. At the time it was worth me paying for things to get her out of the house, it helped me detach quicker and I knew that I would end up giving her support any way if we were divorced so essentially we were living like we were divorced.
We had to agree on Custody, debt, 401k split, cars, other retirement savings, who would claim what kid on taxes, savings, life insurance and their college savings.
You should worry about the financials it sets a precedence.
Lastly, my XW never waivered from what we agreed to when she moved. She was nice, accommodating and did not put up a fight...….all she wanted was OUT. As soon as she moved out she immediately started dating and exploring the single life. Just prepare yourself, once they are out of the house or you are out of the house the game changes!
Sorry if I sounded too alarmist, its just alarm bells go off in my head when guys are doing what you are contemplating because I see them years later and they feel like they sold their lives away for nothing. So, maybe you trust her, but I don't!
So, how about this - try to separate issues into three completely separate mission areas. You should approach each mission completely separately, because if you don't you will be overwhelmed, out of control and not accomplish anything. Guys do better, feel better, are better, everything is better when you have a mission you can tackle and accomplish!
Write down a list of specific actions you can do to in each mission area. Make schedules, arrangements, budgets for each action. This should be a checklist that you go through one by one, and at the start of each day you should have a list of which actions you will achieve that day, and then go out and nail them.
I will even cheat and give you some common actions that I have seen work well:
Mission 1 Unchien improvement: This is all about focusing on being the best you, the best father, healthy, a strong performer at work, a fulfilling hobby/social life.
Find a fun thing to do with and to teach your kids every single day, google fun, new stuff like making up a ridiculous sport, kazoo concerts, pancake decorating contests, sidewalk chalk art gallery. Document all of this in a journal. Take and share pictures. Eat well, learn to prepare healthy simple meals, cut out unhealthy stuff, get into heavy lifting and HIIT, ideally something social like crossfit. Improve your wardrobe, research or find someone other than your wife to help you dress 2 levels more formal and 10 years younger. Look for social interactions, join meetup, make an effort to be more outgoing, start conversations in line, ask people questions about themselves, smile and look them in the eye. Talk to your Dr about TEMPORARY anxiety or SSRI meds if absolutely necessary. Stuff like this.
Mission 2 Legal/business accomplishments: This is all about custody, child support, spousal support, work requirements, asset/debt division, long-term child costs. Your mission is to be a confident, financially successful, involved father. You will guarantee that you are and always will be the father figure for your kids, financially independent and secure. So, get separation agreements in writing, ideally filed, but at minimum well documented. Make sure you are not on the hook, nor are you setting precedent for anything you are not comfortable continuing from a custody or financial standpoint for 18 years. Write down long-term financial and career plans, and define what financial success means to you. Is it a fancy house, vacations? How will you pay for college, retirement. How will you improve your career? Can you take an online certification or learn a skill that prepares you to do the job you want to accomplish these things.
I can promise you that forking over your fatherhood and financial security as some sort of olive branch/trust exercise is not going to achieve anything good for mission 3. In fact, it only results in you lowering your value as a viable relationship option.
Mission 3 Relationship stuff. This includes reconciliation/divorce, regaining her trust, helping her feelings etc.
The only thing we agreed upon during separation was custody and the monthly bills (who was going to pay what). We also split our savings account immediately. I also took away our joint credit card and eventually her debt card to our joint checking account. I did that once she opened up her own checking account and had her check re-directed to deposit at that location.
I would highly recommend splitting things financially if you separate. You don't want to look in your checking account and see a debt at 2 am in the morning at a bar.
The only thing we agreed upon during separation was custody and the monthly bills (who was going to pay what). We also split our savings account immediately. I also took away our joint credit card and eventually her debt card to our joint checking account. I did that once she opened up her own checking account and had her check re-directed to deposit at that location.
I would highly recommend splitting things financially if you separate. You don't want to look in your checking account and see a debt at 2 am in the morning at a bar.
Thanks. I need to think about this. Right now all income comes from me, she will ramp up working soon but probably won't make income for a few months. We agreed to run any expense above $X by each other.
