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Yes I’m assuming this is a soft divorce. I have enough legal advice and understanding to be comfortable with the murkiness. It adds to my stress but I don’t see filing for divorce as a “less stressful” option,

I don’t see signs that she is working on the M. Yesterday was pretty awful. I don’t want to get into the details because I have so much to deal with right now. And I’m not really looking for advice, just some support,

We did talk last night and I said we need to separate as soon as possible and maybe tell the kids this week.

MC this week will assuredly be more of my W being concerned with me around the kids. Yesterday I needed a little break to go for a walk and she told me she was worried about my safety. It’s going to be this way for awhile, addressing her worry about my emotional state. It’s true that I’m a mess, and it also feels unfair. I’m trying to be as unreactive as I can and just listen and validate . I know... it’s not MC it’s basically coparenting counseling. And I’m going to feel really ganged up on for awhile. My w will say she’s not trying to make me feel like it’s all my fault but then she hammers on everything that I’m doing wrong. We need to be apart. I need it for my own emotional recovery and she needs it too.

It is hard to be a rock right now. All the reasons my W wants to separate are due to my emotional issues. Being around my W worsens them. And going to MC is going to involve having all these issues brought up over and over and over for awhile. We NEED this counseling to parent better. I NEED my W to communicate with me, not for recon, but because my kids need it. The easy thing to do would be file tor D and cancel the MC to avoid the pain. I think MC will drive us towards D more quickly. The pain is going to worsen for me for awhile.

The one lesson I’ve taken to heart here is don’t act on emotion. Play the long game. I need to pull myself together here, for myself and my kids. I worry I am depressed. I’m fighting hard. I’m trying to keep a FT job. All the GAL and 180 stuff is taking a back seat. I need some short term strategies. Meditation I’m holding onto. And validation as best as I can although It feels sometimes like my W is hammering away. The more I tolerate feeling beaten up she eventually reveals something useful. When I took a break she said she was worried what I would do on my own if the kids were being crazy. I said I wouldn’t take a break obviously. She said sometimes S7 hits, what will you do if he does that? I said I’m trying to both reassure you and not be defensive and that feels impossible. Eventually she said “what I need to hear from you right now are 3 other things you could do in that situation if you are alone with the kids”.

It was just overall not a great day for our MR. I expect things to only get worse for awhile. I feel hyper emotional (sadness) around the kids and need to stifle that.

IHC you said it about the thousand paper cuts. Offer to help me pack up stuff? Offer to help with searching for places? Even the request for trial separation instead of a divorce... every interaction.

Somehow I need to pull it together and just accept all this s%#* is happening and not be so sad and anxious. Just deal with it. I need to find a way to reach acceptance and turn things positively, some strategy or coping mechanism that will work for me minute by minute.

I should end with some positive stuff. We have agreed to try to share the kids as close to 50/50 as we can. I’m going to take them for a week by myself somewhere this summer. Financially my W said she trusts me more than anyone else - implying if we D she would prefer to just have me come up with an asset split plan and she would trust me. We agreed to just run large expenses by each other during the separation. She said I could come to the house for dinner sometimes and I suggested we instead have a family dinner at a local restaurant. We had a great Father’s Day dinner at home.

I endeavor to reach a point where this doesn’t feel devastating. All this “woe is me” stuff does me no good.

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U,

I'm really sorry you are going through this right now. I promise you it will get better. Excercising and walking are the best things to help you through it. One day at a time.

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So you are moving out, and she doesn't work and is home with 3 small kids?

Even if you talked to a lawyer about this I would strongly, strongly, strongly advise you to go ahead and file for legal separation or divorce with custody and support agreements in place BEFORE you move out.

The issue is that right now you actually have some power because she is desperate to get away from you and will give up long-term outcomes for this short-term goal. BUt as soon as you move out you are trapped and she is sitting pretty. She will have every motivation to keep this the status quo forever, so you can expect that she will never get a job, she will block any attempt to sell the house, eventually OM will move into your house and you will be paying her and OM through the nose forever, even indirectly as you will end up paying for all your kids college tuition while they are traveling the world. I have seen a ton, ton of guys come through years after their separation/soft divorce trying to extricate themselves from this type of situation and there is usually nothing they can do because they agreed to this years earlier in misguided attempts to placate their WW or WAW hoping to nice them back.

You need to accept that you cannot control whether you get divorced or reconcile. But I can tell you that either way, you can and will be happy again unless you allow yourself to be trapped into a bad situation with custody and finances.

So, my firm advise is to put yourself in the strongest possible position for either outcome. Get a legal 50-50 custody and financial agreement in place before you leave, and make that a condition on leaving. Impute full time income for her (if you are gone, she is working!), standard child support, limit any alimony to a couple of years, future costs like sports, cars, college are specified as 50-50. I would also strongly, strongly suggest you sell a house immediately even if you take a hit in doing so. Again, far cheaper in the long run to take a hit now than to pay indefinitely and then take a hit later.

Depending on your locality, this legal protection is going to be either strong legal separation or filing divorce. That is really just semantics. I will honestly say that filing divorce does not really make it any less likely that you would reconcile, but it does reduce the chances of getting stuck in limbo purgatory.

If you do this, you will be able to move on and I would say there is a 90% chance that in less than a year you will look back at your posts and not recognize this beaten down guy who put up with this treatment.

And, even if this sounds terrible to you now and you can only think of reconciling, what do you think is more likely to happen? She decides she doesn't like taking all of your money, and using you as a convenient babysitter for her new, fully financed single lifestyle? Or, she has to support herself and learns the hard way that single motherhood isn't really all that great.

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LH19,

Thank you so much for the kind words. I really needed that. I thought having a couple months pre-BD to prepare would help. But this still feels like a new low.

I'm fighting the urge to make a knee-jerk emotional decision. I know emotions cloud judgment. I know it's not fair that 100% of the blame is focused on me right now (or it feels that way). I'm hurt.

Forget recon. I am fighting my urge to make decisions that are entirely based on avoiding pain or anxiety:

- File for D
- Ask W: "Do you really think you could ever recon with me?"
- Ask W: "Are you making this a two-step process to let me down easy because you are scared?"
- Ask W: "Are you making this a two-step process because you are worried how I will parent the kids and you want to observe and document me?"
- Ask W: "Why do I feel like you are ganging up on me?"
- Ask W: "Why do we go to MC if it is all about me making changes?"

Things are just going to be very unresolved for awhile. I'll keep working at being okay with that.

I know I have some emotional regulation issues. Throughout my life they haven't been particularly severe. My MR issues have exacerbated things over the past 2 years and now life stress has hit a new high. I need to just stay calm and get through this separation process and then revisit where I am at with my W. I'm going to hear a lot about my emotional regulation from my W during MC, and I need to carefully assess what is fair and real, and what is not, because there is some of both. I figure it will take a good month just to move and get somewhat settled. It's going to be hard. It's going to be easy to sink into a depression. Maybe I'm already in one, I don't know, but I need to fight it. One day at a time.

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U -

Take time to breathe, man. I know how you feel - I was in the exact same place as you 3 months ago. The world was spinning and there were hits coming in every direction, even from other sources other than your W that you would never expect. It seems like it is all piling up on you and you dont know where to start.

Take one thing you know you need to do and do that. Even if it's just a small thing - do that. Nothing you do.right now will please your W.

That's not to be mean, that's not to be rude, it just is that way. Your W is in MLC now, or at least WAS. She is angry and full of resentment and needs reasons to justify her decision to split up. So dont give her any.

She doesnt mean to do it, but its part of the whole thing, the whole cycle. My W did it too, I see it now in hindsight. Denial first, then Anger. Right now my W is in Replay/Withdrawal with bursts of Anger.

Minimize contact as much as possible. Dont be mean or unkind - just businesslike or neighborly. Dont initiate conversations unless necessary. Start really DBing. It will help a lot.

Stay strong man smile

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U, sorry you are going through this. I know how you feel. I am a few months ahead of you in my sitch and it only seems to get worse. Sometimes I wonder if I should just give up and other times I have lost my will to DB and let W know how I feel. Makes me feel better short term, I know it is wrong to get emotional but it is hard to stay strong all the time. The one thing I have tried to do is not hold on tight to the rope even if I dont drop it. I see it slip through my fingers, grasp it for a moment and let go again. While not DB by the book I at least DB 90% of the time. It is hard to go through this when our lives have focused on putting W and kids first. It hurts a lot to see if also being demolished to pieces and not being able to do anything about it. There is no winning for anyone here

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I have to say that I strongly agree with fade's comment above. If you are considering moving out, I would heed that advice to the last letter.


No one is coming to save you!

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Originally Posted by fade
So you are moving out, and she doesn't work and is home with 3 small kids?

Even if you talked to a lawyer about this I would strongly, strongly, strongly advise you to go ahead and file for legal separation or divorce with custody and support agreements in place BEFORE you move out.

The issue is that right now you actually have some power because she is desperate to get away from you and will give up long-term outcomes for this short-term goal. BUt as soon as you move out you are trapped and she is sitting pretty. She will have every motivation to keep this the status quo forever, so you can expect that she will never get a job, she will block any attempt to sell the house, eventually OM will move into your house and you will be paying her and OM through the nose forever, even indirectly as you will end up paying for all your kids college tuition while they are traveling the world. I have seen a ton, ton of guys come through years after their separation/soft divorce trying to extricate themselves from this type of situation and there is usually nothing they can do because they agreed to this years earlier in misguided attempts to placate their WW or WAW hoping to nice them back.

You need to accept that you cannot control whether you get divorced or reconcile. But I can tell you that either way, you can and will be happy again unless you allow yourself to be trapped into a bad situation with custody and finances.

So, my firm advise is to put yourself in the strongest possible position for either outcome. Get a legal 50-50 custody and financial agreement in place before you leave, and make that a condition on leaving. Impute full time income for her (if you are gone, she is working!), standard child support, limit any alimony to a couple of years, future costs like sports, cars, college are specified as 50-50. I would also strongly, strongly suggest you sell a house immediately even if you take a hit in doing so. Again, far cheaper in the long run to take a hit now than to pay indefinitely and then take a hit later.

Depending on your locality, this legal protection is going to be either strong legal separation or filing divorce. That is really just semantics. I will honestly say that filing divorce does not really make it any less likely that you would reconcile, but it does reduce the chances of getting stuck in limbo purgatory.

If you do this, you will be able to move on and I would say there is a 90% chance that in less than a year you will look back at your posts and not recognize this beaten down guy who put up with this treatment.

And, even if this sounds terrible to you now and you can only think of reconciling, what do you think is more likely to happen? She decides she doesn't like taking all of your money, and using you as a convenient babysitter for her new, fully financed single lifestyle? Or, she has to support herself and learns the hard way that single motherhood isn't really all that great.


Fade - Thanks for the feedback. I won't deny that I am taking a leap of faith here from a legal perspective. I also won't deny that I am likely to look back a year from now and wonder why I put up with this treatment.

I do think you are being quite alarmist in this post, but trust me I have thought about all these fears as well.

A few points:

1. Legal separation = Divorce in my mind. If trust is at that point, it's time to divorce. My W and I have had several talks the last week. I am definitely working on understanding her viewpoint so I can assess my level of trust. I would not accept trial separation without some basic level of trust on the 2 primary challenges: custody and financials.

2. W has an advanced degree and is restarting work next month. I think I'm fine - imputed income, etc. would all come into play long-term.

3. Custody - it is EXTREMELY touchy to address this right now with W. But we are working on something that I think I will be comfortable with. Part of our schedule is going to be to help her get back to work, which is good for both of us. I'm going to take some PTO with the kids by myself this summer. As long as we have an arrangement that would not materially affect my custody rights long-term, I am okay.

4. Living arrangements - well, I'm moving into a short-term place. It needs to feel like a 2nd home to my kids.

I fully get that I may be confusing "trust" with "please please please I hope we can recon". I choose to trust my W. I think that is best for my kids. I think she has solid values, and would not try to separate me from my kids. She clearly wants us to work on coparenting better. I choose to believe I have the internal strength to get through this without having to legally protect myself, at least today. I know my rights, and know there is some gray area by going this route. So be it.

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Originally Posted by Maika
I have to say that I strongly agree with fade's comment above. If you are considering moving out, I would heed that advice to the last letter.

Maika - Are there any parts specifically that concern you? The custody, or the financial, or just "all of the above."

I hope I am not confusing "trust" with "hoping for recon".

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U - All of it, you should not be thinking about recon at all. If you are thinking about recon then you will allow your desire to recon over shadow what is in your best financial interests.

When my XW moved out we came to a 50-50 custody arrangement along with a financial agreement that was essentially accepted by the judge as well. I was lucky that we did not have to put any formal documentation in place as we both honored what we discussed.

Don't move out without something formal in place. I can tell you with three small kids and you being the bread winner you will more than likely be paying alimony and obvious child support. It will be greatly reduced, probably in half, if you get 50/50.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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