- W wants to try a 6 month trial separation where I move out. Including continued MC. - W said she was surprised I wanted to stay married. - W said she needs space from me and my emotional issues for awhile.
We talked after MC and dug into a lot of other stuff. I mostly listened and validated and appreciated the feedback. I haven’t determined what I think about all this right now.
Obviously lot's to think about. Right out of the gate she's not being honest. Her being surprised you still want be married is manipulation to shift blame. After 3 letters she knows where you stand.
You're kind of in a tough spot right now. I will give you my opinion based on how I see this playing out.
If she really wanted to work on the marriage you would attend MC while living together.
If you don't agree to this she most likely files for divorce.
If you do she most likely cake eats while she gets her ducks in a row a says "we tried".
The DB alpha move would be to tell her that you understand that she feels you need to separate but you are not leaving your kids and the house. If she wants to move out you will not stand in her way. You would like to remain living together and work collaboratively with MC to fix your marriage.
From what I know about you U your mind is going to be spinning based on her statement " I'm surprised you still want to be married". All part of her master plan.
Think about you as being the captain of the Titanic and you just hit the iceberg. You going to try to get a seat on the life boat or are you going to dig your heals in and go down with your ship.
- W wants to try a 6 month trial separation where I move out. Including continued MC. - W said she was surprised I wanted to stay married. - W said she needs space from me and my emotional issues for awhile.
We talked after MC and dug into a lot of other stuff. I mostly listened and validated and appreciated the feedback. I haven’t determined what I think about all this right now.
Lots to think about more tomorrow.
Hey U -
I'm sorry you're in this position, but it actually could have been way worse. Perhaps that's little consolation, but I'm all about trying to be as positive as possible.
I would caution that these statements were what she felt in that particular moment, and are not concrete unshifting entities. This took me a long time to figure out in my sit and it is why I was so puzzled by W's sudden shifts in topic and emotions.
One of the reasons I was advocating for no MC was because this was a temp check. That's ok though, at least you know where you stand right now, and you know what to apply in order to protect yourself.
Up in the middle of the night here, more bits and pieces. Rambling. This is a disjointed mess typed on my phone in the middle of the night so it will mostly sound nonsensical and disorganized.
At MC office W went right into the abuse narrative. She doesn’t trust me. Emotionally. I believe at face value she does not trust me and needs space. I pressed how we could rebuild trust if We are not living together. I’ll have to post more later on this.
W and I talked later at home. The way we should have talked the last several months. She was really hurt when I stopped IC for a month awhile ago in February. I just can’t type everything out on mobile now. It wasn’t all negative. She said she prefers we stay married and work this out more than anything but she just needs some space. She stressed she does not want to take the kids away. I said I need some time and space to consider all this.
I feel like I have limited options here. I can accept separation and we work out a schedule where I see the kids most days. She’s on board. We continue to go to MC - something I made clear as a requirement in this case. No dating. I told her complete honesty, we need to stop the mind reading. If either of us (if I accept this) wants out then we say it.
Or we divorce. W said she has no interest in a legal battle. I said neither do I but if you claimed full custody we would be in a legal battle. And if we divorce I don’t think IHS in the short term is workable anyways. Too much tension for our kids. I won’t have it.
Honestly if I step back... if I maintain my custody rights (I.e. W cannot claim that by separating it changed things) then whether we divorce or try this separation my life will look very similar in the short term.
I know the advice here is going to be to stay in the house. I know my head is spinning because so much was discussed. And I should not take it at 100% face value. But I will end up getting served.
W was very coy about what she wanted until the MC pressed her and she asked for separation. She acted as if she was open to me proposing drastic changes that would not require separation although couldn’t really say what those were. I think she’s confused and just wants space. Or it’s a soft way to D me eventually. It doesn’t matter - I need to think about what’s best for me.
Lots to think about... trying to center myself and think what do I want? Now that W has spoken to me for the first time in 3 months, do I have faith? Can this be fixed for both of us? She was clear... she does not trust me. My stance is... if she can’t trust me there is no “us”. I am willing to work on it if I see commitment from her, commitment meaning going to MC and listening to me and showing me that she also is committed. I’m so guarded right now though.
My instinct is always to cave. Right now my instinct is to work out a reasonable separation agreement and just do it. And if I feel the M is completely lost then I can just file. Right now it feels pretty lost. The momentary euphoria of actual communication happening has waned - I know it’s common for things to seem better post BD because the WAS is relieved.
One of the weirdest pieces is that W mentioned being hurt again by my distance lately. That I don’t ask about her and about the kids. I had to bite my tongue while thinking she rarely asks me how I’m doing. But hey... this was amazing feedback and I told her I appreciated that. I had no clue. My GALing has her super confused.
It’s so easy to get sucked into her head. There is value in understanding her narrative, even for my personal growth. She wants me to be there for her consistently, ask about her day. What I want from her? Commitment to MC and working on communication and treating me as an equal parent.
It’s all a mess because it’s mostly my fault in her head. Or I should be more clear... things I did eroded her trust in me. She is not sure I can regain her trust. When she did trust me in our M, yes we both were happy.
So much confusion. I need to let things settle so I can think clearly. Right now I’m not seeing things clearly. I don’t think living together right now would be healthy, so it’s mostly a question (to me) of what is best for the kids. Unfortunately with our FT/SAH split it makes no sense for me to stay and W to move out.
We agreed for our upcoming anniversary our gift to each other would be committing to our relationship (M S or D) for the sake of the kids. We may go grab a drink somewhere nothing fancy.
I have a week (until next MC session) to think and post so Hopefully my successive posts will be more clear and focused.
I can tell you a six month separation is not going to work in your favor. With your anxiety it is just prolonging your limbo. She gets the best of both worlds in living alone and you paying for everything. Feelings only change with time and space (usually 1.5 to 2 years) and or feeling a loss. Neither happen in a six months separation.
Uni I'm willing to bet an article, or the MC pushed the idea of a 6 mo. trial seperation. W goes looking for justification, or solution, MC reccomends it. W secretly goes "Hey that's a great idea." It further justifies her actions. Whether she is actually using it to cement her position, or she actually needs the time and space to emotionally figure things out is irrelevant. Give her as much space as you can afford, give her the whole universe of space as far as I an concerned. Then when she asks.. "Why are you so distant and not paying any attention to me?" Just tell her like it is. "I thought you wanted, and was taking your're space, so I am giving it to you. LH19 is spot on his assessment. She is staging to get her ducks in a row to plan out how to seperate, who moves, where to go, what to do, how to live, etc. Post S or D.
Here is a thought. Something that dawned on me last night after reading a few other situations here as well as my own introspectiveness, and mental states during therapy. FlySolo kind of got me onto this. (Shout out) If you step back far enough to relax and see things for what they are, rather than what your perception is or what the other person's perception is. You will see things a lot clearer. Wolfy here mentioned too, how it's silly how some people leave their marriages because someone didn't do the dishes enough for someone didn't pay enough attention to someone or someone left a pile of clothes in the corner. Yada yada... it sounds silly as a reason and justification for leaving. But what I think is actually going on and why people leave for these reasons is because of the double standards between two people. Or not seeing the change that we want in the other person is what causes either to leave.
Where I'm going with this for you it is... If W says "I am surprised that you want to stay married" she most likely is projecting her own thoughts and beliefs and perceptions not yours. She does clearly know where you stand by your previous letters. I would suggest challenging those kind of statement like an MC would. DONT ARGUE WITH IT. DONT DEBATE IT, ABD DONT TAKE THE BAIT IN EXPLAINING YOURSELF , or why you think your perception is different or right from hers. Just listen to it, nod, and smile. Only if and when you catch her making these kind of statements. I would challenge her thought process on it. I would ask her specifically why she thinks, or what gave the impression perception or incident, that recently made her think that? Find out what it is, nod and smile, thank her for revealing such if you want, write it down and walk away. If you wants you to better yourself for a 180. But I'm willing to bet most likely she's going to be projecting them and blame-shifting a lot of her perception of what she thinks of you and why. She has an end goal and that's to get away from you. The more you take the bait in discussion of why. The more it cements and validated her justification. While you are at it as good practice try and challenge your own thoughts and beliefs and what are they add up to reality. I know that we all have tend to have convoluted thinking going through all of this with our emotions, and sometimes they don't stack up to reality unless someone's challenges us. We have to go about a different way of thinking about things sometimes to see improvements in ourselves and change.
I think that they have to slowly realize on their own, without you or anyone else telling them, Is that their perceptions and feelings are being misled and are skewed and your actions have to demonstrate such over a long period of time. They are in fight or flight mode most likely fligh're
U, just take some time to process it all, it's a lot to handle all at once like that. I would not under any circumstances leave the home. That should be a non-negotiable point in my opinion. She's trying to make you out to be the bad guy, but she is the one that wants to wreck the marriage. She should be the one inconvenienced by her actions, not you. I've seen so many LBS's leave the home and they are living on someone's couch, or in a basement, or in a crappy little apartment while the WAS is living it up in the family home with the kids and sometimes even OM right there under the same roof. The WAS will not respect you more for leaving, she will respect you LESS.
Originally Posted by LH19
The DB alpha move would be to tell her that you understand that she feels you need to separate but you are not leaving your kids and the house. If she wants to move out you will not stand in her way. You would like to remain living together and work collaboratively with MC to fix your marriage.
^^^This^^^
Originally Posted by unchien
I feel like I have limited options here. I can accept separation and we work out a schedule where I see the kids most days. She’s on board. We continue to go to MC - something I made clear as a requirement in this case. No dating. I told her complete honesty, we need to stop the mind reading. If either of us (if I accept this) wants out then we say it.
You can and should choose to stay put, keep the kids there and let her move out if that's what she wants so bad. DON'T HELP HER. Also do not continue to go to MC, she's officially a WAS now and the ONLY reason she'll keep going is to check it off her list of "things I did to save the M but only proved it really was over". As far as the no dating rule, don't expect her to honor that. If I had a dollar for every time a WAS has agreed to that and then had an A anyway I'd be driving a lambo.
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W said she has no interest in a legal battle.
What she means is "give me exactly what I want because I don't want to have to fight for it."
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I know the advice here is going to be to stay in the house. I know my head is spinning because so much was discussed. And I should not take it at 100% face value. But I will end up getting served.
If you're going to get served then it's inevitable, it will not be because you took a stand to stay in the house.
It's time to change your mindset. She's not your loving W that you need to buy flowers for to soothe an argument. She's a full-blown WAS. You've done enough research to know what that means and what you should do and not do. Take some time to absorb this and then get to work.
Uni it makes every bit of sense for you to stay. Granted the limbo and the in-house separation is going to make you emotionally screwy. But you have to get comfortable with yourself with it. You have to get comfortable with being quiet to yourself and around her. Almost stoic. It makes sense for you to stay because you are not the one who's leaving she is. Everyone here is right they try to push us out of their lives so that they can stage and benefit from it don't allow it. People who leave do exactly that they leave they don't tell you to leave because they want to leave. Its manipulation. Completely blaming you for all the problems in the marriage is also manipulation. it's also a double standard and they won't see any of this even if you tell them out right. They have to realize it on their own through time and space. Just don't allow them to manipulate you.
