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Originally Posted by Davide
Good on you for picking up and trying to check the passive aggressiveness. That is never helpful. Remember that you can't control her or necessarily the situation, but you can control your own responses. It's normal to be angry about the situation, you just need to find the right place-time to let that anger out, which is not anywhere near her. Don't deny the emotions, but don't let them control you either. They will pass.

That said, I think the fact that you can't speak openly about the fact that you know BD is coming and that she wants a D naturally pushes these things down and they are going to keep coming up until you can openly talk with her about the reality of the situation. I give you much credit for your patience. I pushed and had that talk with my EW right away and moved out the next day because I couldn't handle living in that limbo. You are much more in control of your emotions.

You are doing great!

Thanks Davide - I was reading through your sitch history last night. I really admired your personal growth. It seems to me like you became really in touch with your emotions and internal experiences, which helped you then make decisions in accordance with your values. You seem very level-headed and balanced.

Honestly just understanding and starting to label my emotions ("I'm feeling angry right now, interesting, I don't need to act upon it, I can just sit and be with it") is helping alot.

My W and I have been exchanging e-mails with my S7's school about his situation next year. Last night my W jumped the gun and asked the school to modify something that we had not discussed together yet. In the past I would have either (a) let it go unmentioned; or (b) said something passive-aggressively. Instead last night I just said, "Although I agree with your e-mail, I would have liked to discuss this together beforehand." She tried to brush it off but did give me a "sorry".

I wouldn't say I am necessarily patient. When I had the unofficial "BD" in March I pulled the car over on the side of the road and scared the hell out of my W. Then I wrote 3 lengthy apology letters which probably further scared her. I also have 3 kids to consider. My fear of my W acting out of fear helped me be patient. Now I am more level-headed.

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I have a different take on the being 'in limbo' in this particular context. As far as I can see, there really is no limbo because the intentions of the W are very clear. If you want the 'actual' BD to happen, then that is your preference at this point. You can get out of this stage by taking control of your life and moving forward regardless of what W wants to do. This is a rare case where the LBS has the opportunity to tackle BD head on and not after the fact.

From a character point of view - do you want to be with someone who can't even articulate what they're thinking without having a third party manhandle the situation? Clearly communication is broken down and if you're not thinking about what you want from a partner to have a good relationship, then you're going to feel stuck.

Does your W have the character traits that you would want in a partner? If not, what would be required on her end? You know what's required on your end, I hope.

There was a poster here called Txhubby. His W was blatantly disrespecting him and he wallowed for 2 years. And then he woke up one day and said he's not going to take any of it. He shut the hell up, took control of his life - went dark as much as he could, started improving his health, got a promotion at work, and became the man he wanted to be. All whilst still living in the same house as his W. He pretty much stopped giving a f#$k. Guess what happened - his W had a meltdown, and I mean a full on tantrum where she was flailing on the floor because she couldn't deal with how strong, resilient, and amazing Tx had gotten. They were able to salvage their M at that point because she became remorseful, apologetic, humble, and gave up all entitlement. He thought long and hard about working at the MR at that point and he had his reasons to try and give it a shot.

But all of this happened because he stopped giving a f#$k. And that is the kinda attitude that needs to be taken, whether BD or pre-BD in this case. Limbo is self-imposed and you have the power to decide when to end it.


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Originally Posted by MLCxH
Originally Posted by unchien
OK unanimous feedback here. I love the push back and forcing me to challenge my thinking.


Not unanimous because I was a lone dissenting voice here lol. I agree with the reasons everyone has mentioned here for canceling MC. But I having been reading your posts from the beginning and I just feel like you will be better off out of limbo even if the BD is painful. I see you hurting thinking of a 100 possibilities and I am hoping the MC sessions narrows it down to a few paths forward.. This will really help you with your DB.

I could be wrong but if I were in your position I would make the decision you are making. I recognize it could be the wrong decision since the vets have more experience but limbo is hard and in my sitch I felt getting out of limbo helped me keep moving forward for myself even if my MR went backward.

Originally Posted by unchien


Of course I’m not prepared for BD but I’m more fortunate than most here in that I’ve had months to steel myself. How can you ever be fully ready?


You have an advantage most of us did not. You had time to mentally prepare yourself. Will be praying it goes well for you

Thanks MLCxH - I feel like I am in a good place and ready to proceed. I didn't mean to slight you by calling the feedback "Unanimous" either, it was great to hear so many voices so quickly with feedback.

In all honesty I could probably continue to stay in limbo for awhile. One of my primary motivators to move ahead is my kids. It is summertime, if we are going to S/D I would like to plan some time alone with them. Of course I could do this anyways, but for example I wouldn't normally take a week of vacation from work to take a trip with them.

My second motivator is that I no longer recognize my W as someone I want to spend my life with. Not the current version. I'm not racing over to the courthouse to file papers, but I also feel a complete lack of emotional support from her. That is not grounds for a healthy M, nor do I want my kids to experience that.

I have no idea what to expect in this MC round. Everyone here knows I over-analyze. I can start listing all the scenarios down, they do run in my head, but the point is: I am comfortable that I can handle any situation. I have an exit plan if I need it. I will not over-expose myself and become vulnerable. Other than that, I'm there to listen. If I need time to think of how to respond, it can wait for future MC sessions.

I've always felt uncomfortable in situations involving conflict. Over the years I became much more comfortable in workplace situations. At work, I can now approach any situation without needing a script ahead of time. I am calm and confident that I can handle any kind of situation. My job requires a lot of conflict de-escalation, getting people to work together and find a common solution. I really enjoy it actually. It is a liberating feeling not to worry. I hope to get to that point in my personal relationships at some point..

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Maika - You are one of my favorite posters. I am grinning ear to ear, this post for some reason resonated so much that it made my day.

Originally Posted by Maika
From a character point of view - do you want to be with someone who can't even articulate what they're thinking without having a third party manhandle the situation? Clearly communication is broken down and if you're not thinking about what you want from a partner to have a good relationship, then you're going to feel stuck.

Exactly. Communication is fundamental to a relationship.

For awhile I thought I was the problem. Abusers often claim communication is the issue in their relationship. I think things were blown out of proportion.

Regardless, if we can't communicate better, this MR is dead. In fact, we are going to need counseling just to communicate better for co-parenting purposes. I will insist on that.

Originally Posted by Maika
Does your W have the character traits that you would want in a partner? If not, what would be required on her end? You know what's required on your end, I hope.

I also think a lot about this.

It's hard not to think about "what I want in a partner" without listing the deficiencies in my current MR. But here goes:

- Self-differentiation: Encourage each other to GAL. Enjoy each other's individual spirit and goals and needs. This is critical to avoid the "anxious-avoidant" pursuer-distance dance of my current R.

- Communication / Conflict resolution: Be willing to understand each other's POV. Even if we disagree. When we sense conflict, WORK ON IT. Provide both positive and negative feedback.

- LL: Mine is PT. I will speak whatever my partner's LL is. But PT has to be there for me.

- Dedicate time together - this is something I repeatedly brought up with my W but things never changed. Life was always "too busy" but there was plenty of time to watch crap TV 3 nights a week.

- Attraction is self-evident.

What I need to work on: NGS, clearly stating my own needs, feeling emotionally balanced on my own (not needing another person to reassure me), not being reactive to my partner's moods, GAL.

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Looks like a good list. The more and more I go deeper into this process, what I have found that the most precious thing to me is clarity - about myself, about partnerships, about my professional career, about relationships etc. The more you can get towards that clarity in every area and develop emotional fitness and self-awareness, you're way ahead in the pack.

Appreciate the kind words. Like many here, I've been through the fire and come out the other side better and stronger. If I can impart what I have learned so that others may not make the same mistakes or missteps as me in this process, I am happy to do so.


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Good luck today Uni. Stay strong

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Maika,

Clarity. Exactly. The word of the day for me.

The trick is in achieving it. I am strangely grateful for my situation, because I think I would have never otherwise been fire-tested enough to reach the clarity I have today, let alone where I hope to be 2 years from now.

Tonight is MC with the mediation guy. I have a general plan going in. I have 2 scripts, one for my stance (We are in limbo and drifting apart) and one to respond if she says she wants a divorce.

But I have my worries... you all know me smile Here goes...

What worries me most is if W is unclear, or if the direction of MC is unclear, and we start talking about all the problems and issues in our MR. This could easily divert into "Here's all of UC's issues" territory. I first need to know my W's stance. Yes this is pressure. It's time for some clarity.

Why am I so concerned about over-sharing? Why make myself vulnerable with someone who has shut down communication for so long? I don't want to set the tone that I am going to bend over during either the D process, or even the R process should that happen. I think it's important to show my W that I am not going to be a push-over regardless of what happens. And just to be clear, I am hoping for neither D or R -- I just want clarity.

What else worries me? W may come with a script. "You know honey, I love you, but I feel...." This reminds me of an old Far Side cartoon where all the dog (in this case, UC) hears is: "Blah blah blah divorce blah blah blah". I don't need or want to hear her reasons for D. She can share those with her IC. It will not help my "healing" process. I wrote letters sharing my feelings and she didn't even acknowledge receipt! I don't know, maybe I am angry. It just feels offensive that she would choose to close herself off for 6 months and then give me some "gift" of healing which is really all about her "journey" or "process". I sound like I have no empathy -- that is not true. I do feel for my W, it must be really hard to exit a M with 3 little kids, it must be hard to handle the emotions involved on her side. I'm sure she feels guilty at times. But... I need more self-compassion than I have granted myself before. Part of that is protecting myself from an emotional ambush.

OK back to the main thread...What else? How about the MC saying "And how does that make you feel UC?" Honestly, I will be sharing no feelings (other than my 2 scripts) until I hear my W's stance on our MR. Maybe I would just say, "I feel uncertain about W's position on our MR."

Final one: If I hear the BD and deliver my script, I plan to walk out and never come back to this counselor. Is that being passive-aggressive? He may be really good at mediation -- but the fact my W steered MC to this guy is frustrating. I feel like she is controlling the situation to meet her needs (even if she thinks this is best for "both of us"). Or maybe I'm being immature -- I obviously know our M is for all intents and purposes over, she must have a clue that I know that, so am I stomping out like an infant here? I don't know - playing this whole game of "UC doesn't have a clue that his W has been planning an exit for months" hurts me MORE than the actual separation itself. Her comments in the past that "Maybe we could talk in front of UC's IC" instead of just sitting and talking like adults...

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Originally Posted by unchien
Maika,

Clarity. Exactly. The word of the day for me.

The trick is in achieving it. I am strangely grateful for my situation, because I think I would have never otherwise been fire-tested enough to reach the clarity I have today, let alone where I hope to be 2 years from now.

Tonight is MC with the mediation guy. I have a general plan going in. I have 2 scripts, one for my stance (We are in limbo and drifting apart) and one to respond if she says she wants a divorce.

But I have my worries... you all know me smile Here goes...

What worries me most is if W is unclear, or if the direction of MC is unclear, and we start talking about all the problems and issues in our MR. This could easily divert into "Here's all of UC's issues" territory. I first need to know my W's stance. Yes this is pressure. It's time for some clarity.

Why am I so concerned about over-sharing? Why make myself vulnerable with someone who has shut down communication for so long? I don't want to set the tone that I am going to bend over during either the D process, or even the R process should that happen. I think it's important to show my W that I am not going to be a push-over regardless of what happens. And just to be clear, I am hoping for neither D or R -- I just want clarity.

What else worries me? W may come with a script. "You know honey, I love you, but I feel...." This reminds me of an old Far Side cartoon where all the dog (in this case, UC) hears is: "Blah blah blah divorce blah blah blah". I don't need or want to hear her reasons for D. She can share those with her IC. It will not help my "healing" process. I wrote letters sharing my feelings and she didn't even acknowledge receipt! I don't know, maybe I am angry. It just feels offensive that she would choose to close herself off for 6 months and then give me some "gift" of healing which is really all about her "journey" or "process". I sound like I have no empathy -- that is not true. I do feel for my W, it must be really hard to exit a M with 3 little kids, it must be hard to handle the emotions involved on her side. I'm sure she feels guilty at times. But... I need more self-compassion than I have granted myself before. Part of that is protecting myself from an emotional ambush.

OK back to the main thread...What else? How about the MC saying "And how does that make you feel UC?" Honestly, I will be sharing no feelings (other than my 2 scripts) until I hear my W's stance on our MR. Maybe I would just say, "I feel uncertain about W's position on our MR."

Final one: If I hear the BD and deliver my script, I plan to walk out and never come back to this counselor. Is that being passive-aggressive? He may be really good at mediation -- but the fact my W steered MC to this guy is frustrating. I feel like she is controlling the situation to meet her needs (even if she thinks this is best for "both of us"). Or maybe I'm being immature -- I obviously know our M is for all intents and purposes over, she must have a clue that I know that, so am I stomping out like an infant here? I don't know - playing this whole game of "UC doesn't have a clue that his W has been planning an exit for months" hurts me MORE than the actual separation itself. Her comments in the past that "Maybe we could talk in front of UC's IC" instead of just sitting and talking like adults...


Good luck today, U. Since MC is happening, I would do a lot more listening than talking. Maybe like 85 percent to 15 percent. I would keep my answers simple and direct. I would plan just a very few things to say, points I want to make. But the rest is out of your control, so try to let it go.

Stay strong smile

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Originally Posted by IronWill
Good luck today, U. Since MC is happening, I would do a lot more listening than talking. Maybe like 85 percent to 15 percent.


Exactly what I was going to say. Just listen and validate. If you get asked direct questions by W or the MC then answer them as briefly as possible. Let W do all the talking.

Originally Posted by unchien
Final one: If I hear the BD and deliver my script, I plan to walk out and never come back to this counselor. Is that being passive-aggressive?


No I don't think so. If your W tries to get you to go back just tell her you need time to process everything. She's been preparing for BD for months or even years. It would be unreasonable of her to expect you to rush through S and or D given that. And I think it would be fine to tell her that.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Thanks AS and IW -

I think it is a good point that, should the BD happen today (or at any time), I should ask for space and time to process everything. No need to rush. I may have the benefit of knowing ahead of time this is coming, but I can tell even from the little emotional ripples I feel today that this is still going to be a massive gut-punch when it does come.

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