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Thanks guys for your words of wisdom. It makes me feel better when you say itís ok to let those emotions out. I always feel better when I do. Yes I do it when no one is around.

LH she is definitely not thinking about the consequences of divorce. I just got a nasty phone call from her. She text me first about activities about the kids. So when she called I thought it was about that. WRONG!! She called because she is crashing and burning with money. My w was always a big spender. No joke we would spend about $30-$35k a year just on vacations. We would go out to dinner all the time. She buy brand name bags and clothes, you get the drift. Now that she doesnít have my money she is putting herself into serious debt. And of course who is she blaming... yup me. How she has no money, she canít keep paying for all these things, that I am screwing her with the house that she has to keep it and take care of it by herself. Duh what did you think was going to happen in d? That I would still go over there and take care of the house? Iím sure thatís what she was thinking.
We put money into a joint account every month but because of her spending and normal bills she is racking up serious cc debt. I told her I could not speak to her at this time, I am working. So, of course I get a nasty text how she didnít go for the full child support how nice she was in doing that. Then when I pay for things and itís something we have to split she gets mad that I ask her for the money and says Iím penny pinching. The best part of the text she complains how I can come and go as I please because I donít live there. When she didnít want me in the house anymore, yet she is now throwing that in my face. I responded back to the text with:
Look I know you are frustrated with everything. I appreciate that you brought it down. If you would like we can discuss this further later when I am done here.
I think her new reality is setting in and she doesnít like it. I donít know what she was expecting. Wait I know to keep doing everything for her while she goes out partying. Lol nope not happening.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
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Moved out: 4/22/19
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D final 3/18/20
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They don't think about any consequences. They only think about what they feel is going to make them happy right now. My EXWW literally thought that she could just DB me, I would just sleep in a different room than her and be her plan B in case her new R fell apart. She had no clue or idea that I would hire a PI to follow her around and find out the truth.

My EXWW only now sees her consequences. One of them is a huge financial hit on her part. She had to pay me a large sum of money when D was finalized. She has to refinance the house out of my name and pay me half of the equity. Our interest rates were really low when we bought this house. They are up since then and the value of the home has increased. So she is going to significantly increase her monthly costs by having to buy me out.

She thought she would just take all of her money away from me and that I would fall on my face. I never did and I am fine financially. She is losing a man that truly loved her and was there for her and who tried to be a better person for her. But she didnt pay attention, so now I am moving out and moving on from her life. Her family is torn in two and she will have to spend a week at a time without her kids.

She didnt think about any of this while she was in la la land falling in love with OM. She even gave me some crocodile tears and said to me that we can still D and I can stay living here. Nope, I am gone. She swore to me that I would never qualify for a nice home to rent. I found a nice house. She just knew I would lose my car. I still have it. She just knew that when I joined the gym last year that I was going to not go and stay fat. I lost 100lbs.

Everything she expected didnt happen and everything she didnt think about happened. On the other hand, I am way far ahead of the game financially and emotionally. I am looking forward to not being held back by this selfish person my EXWW became.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
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W,

If she is racking up serious debt you may want to push the D through because you will be responsible for half the debt.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
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Originally Posted by LH19
W,

If she is racking up serious debt you may want to push the D through because you will be responsible for half the debt.



This, or at least confirm with a lawyer that the separation date counts in court. Here where I live, the separation date is what counts. Even living IHS, our separation date was September 24, 2018. The courts considered all debt and income prior to that date. But its different in every state.

Protect yourself.


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WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
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I agree with ST and LH, lawyer up ASAP and make sure you are protected from all the debt she is accruing. Does she have her own CC or is it in your name as well? If in your name then FULL STOP on that right away. WAS's and especially MLCers can rack up debt at an astonishing rate and more than one LBS has been shocked to find they are responsible for half of it in the D, sometimes even after S. And of those, many of them also got a cold slap in the face when they found out the debt was way, WAY more than they thought they knew.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I donít know if anyone can answer this question, you said with Lots of space and time you said she may find me attractive again? What is it about the space and time that will do it?


R2C covered it well but basically she blames you for everything from her current unhappiness to why she made a D on a math test in the 2nd grade. You've got to "remove yourself from the equation" before she'll start to realize that her problems are following her wherever she goes. The more you can distance yourself then the easier it will be for her to figure this out. With time she'll start remembering that maybe Wolf wasn't so bad after all, and we did have some good times, and then when she sees you looking confident, stronger, happier, better dressed she'll think "oh wow, what am I missing out on?" That's the point. You give her time and distance and you go about the business of making yourself Wolf squared. Super Wolf. Make her kick herself for leaving. As the saying here goes- "make yourself the spouse only a fool would leave." My addition to that is "...and if she leaves, well then she's a fool and do you want to be with a fool?"

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AS that makes me feel good that you found someone that really makes you happy. I look at that as a success story. Sorry if I made it seem like anyone who got divorced not a success. Like I said in previous posts for me itís just the fear of the unknown, the fear of starting over and honestly speaking just pisses me off what I dedicated to this family to end up here!!


I totally understand that, we were all there. Fear of the unknown is very real, and very frightening. Eventually you will cross that boundary into the unknown, and it won't be as dark and scary as you think. Maybe at first, but eventually it'll be your "new normal" and you will find peace, and beyond that even thrive. But right now it's dark and scary looking there.

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The part I want to talk about though is my kids. I miss them dearly when I am not with them. I try to keep myself busy and GAL as much as possible. But there are still periods when I am not busy every second. Those are the moments I want to just breakdown and cry. My kids have always been my world!!! As I write this I am tearing up. How do I deal with the loss of my kids? Is it just time? I try to fill my days up but itís hard to fill every second.


Don't be afraid to cry, just try not to around W or the kids. I've relayed this many times but I grew up in a "boys don't cry" environment. In the months after BD I quite literally cried more than I had in the first 50 years of my life added together. I cried on the 30 minute drive to work. I cried on the drive home. I cried in my closet. I cried in the backyard. I cried at how helpless I was to stop the crying. Eventually I cried less and less until it finally, blessedly stopped. But you've got to let it happen, don't try to stop it or it will just come out worse later. Interestingly I don't think I've cried once in the years since then, since well before D. Anyway your feelings are real, own them.

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AS you said something (sorry I donít know how to do those quote boxes) about how in her mind the m was that bad that she needed to get out. But how does someone do that knowing they wonít be with their kids all the time??


It's their rationalization hamster. They will rationalize it like this- "I'm not happy and the kids will see that and they will not be happy either. If I get out of this M then I will be exceedingly happy and the kids will see that and be happier too. Therefore separation and divorce are GOOD for the kids." You can send her reams of data explaining otherwise, but there is NOTHING that can trump the rationalization hamster. He is busy running running running in that wheel all day and night.

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Is it normal for me to feel disgust for her doing this??? Or a sense of real anger that she is putting our family though this?


That's your POV. Hers is that this is all because of you. The truth is probably somewhere between those two extremes.

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She called because she is crashing and burning with money. My w was always a big spender. No joke we would spend about $30-$35k a year just on vacations. We would go out to dinner all the time. She buy brand name bags and clothes, you get the drift. Now that she doesnít have my money she is putting herself into serious debt. And of course who is she blaming... yup me. How she has no money, she canít keep paying for all these things, that I am screwing her with the house that she has to keep it and take care of it by herself


Listen and validate.

"It sounds like you are frustrated, I can certainly understand why you feel that way."

"So you will send me more money?"

"No, we're both on very tight budgets now. I am having difficulty getting by and really need to watch things closely."

"BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEE IT'S ALL ABOUT ME I NEED A NEW PURSE"

"I am sorry you are struggling, it must be very difficult."

"HOW DARE YOU BLAH BLAH BLAH"

"I will not be disrespected, if you can't discuss this calmly I am going to hang up."

"WHAT???? WHO DO YOU..."

-click-

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Duh what did you think was going to happen in d? That I would still go over there and take care of the house? Iím sure thatís what she was thinking.


It doesn't matter. Don't expend energy on this kind of negative thinking. Around her- listen and validate. That's it. When not around her- what can Wolf do today to make himself a better dude?

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When she didnít want me in the house anymore, yet she is now throwing that in my face. I responded back to the text with:
Look I know you are frustrated with everything. I appreciate that you brought it down. If you would like we can discuss this further later when I am done here.


Very good. Keep your cool. Listen and validate. Nice job!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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My EXWW literally just said "The kids will be fine".

So she decided the kids will be fine, she didn't actually ask them if they would be fine or consider their needs or if they would be ok with living with each parent 50% of the time. She just made a determination that they would be "fine".

They don't care about ANYTHING but themselves. Its all about "me me me me me" with them. Thats it, nothing else. Pure unadulterated selfishness. They will also have no problem telling you how selfish they are and that only they matter.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
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These statements from AS and SoTorn:

"It's their rationalization hamster. They will rationalize it like this- "I'm not happy and the kids will see that and they will not be happy either. If I get out of this M then I will be exceedingly happy and the kids will see that and be happier too. Therefore separation and divorce are GOOD for the kids." You can send her reams of data explaining otherwise, but there is NOTHING that can trump the rationalization hamster. He is busy running running running in that wheel all day and night."

My EXWW literally just said "The kids will be fine".

So she decided the kids will be fine, she didn't actually ask them if they would be fine or consider their needs or if they would be ok with living with each parent 50% of the time. She just made a determination that they would be "fine".

They don't care about ANYTHING but themselves. Its all about "me me me me me" with them. Thats it, nothing else. Pure unadulterated selfishness. They will also have no problem telling you how selfish they are and that only they matter.

These statements are right on the money. I had a conversation with W last weekend about this, about how our S1 will never know an intact family, how sad that is, how he may or may not wind up screwed up later in life because of it, (and I know from experience because I have seen it first hand from nieces and nephews from divorce and seperation.) I'm not advocating we stay together for time being, but they really don't think about the long term affects. Even though not advisable, I did point out how selfish this was. Her justification was that it would be better for her as an individual and parent, to be happy, find her happiness, find her tribe or whatever. That in her mind, the risk vs reward of seperation and divorce far outweighs and benefits her and S1 more than staying and working out things together. So I told her then you better be prepared and willing to have that conversation when the time comes, and your justified reasons, because our S1 is going to get an entirely different story from me. She's convinced that its good that he is young so he won't remember or know any better, that its better to break up the family when they are this young. She thinks she is doing him a service.

I asked my W what are you going to tell our son when he is old enough to ask, and has questions about S and D.

And...This is from the horse's (I mean WAW's.) mouth and I quote....

"Just because we have a history together, doesn't mean we should stay together"

"Our issues and our situation are unique"

"I looked five years down the road and it made me cringe"

Me: "How do you think separation, and co-parenting is going to look like?"

"Well that's the thing... I'm doing this for him. We are separating because I feel that me being happy is more important, is and being a better example for him, is being better parent for him, rather than doing the right thing."

"I am still having trouble seeing the downfall and the role that I played in the failure of the marriage."

There are many more irrational quotes that I haven't included that sound insane, but scripted, common, and normal to us here going through it.

Even though i remained calm in front of her, that conversation pissed me off so much, realizing just how selfish, my once very thoughtfull, giving, and kind W has turned. This is not someone I want to remain married to, and started getting all my papers and affairs in order to push through the D. I have yet to file. I do understand partially her side of it though. This is coming from someone and is the result of someone who has been people-pleasing, and has been the caretaker for over 30 years, and is taking the time to make herself happy, find herself, work on herself (I think?) So even though I don't agree with the selfishness I can understand why, when is if someone's perception that they've been putting everyone else first than themselves last for so many years, and how they can lose their identity.

My perception is I would rather be unhappy in a certain area of my life and happy in the others, work on things and figure things out, learn better coping skills and mechanisms, and make sacrifices for children. They don't see it this way. Their happiness comes first, for the benefit of the children, or so they portray. I think there is a different way of thinking with this between a man and a woman and the sexes. Still selfish though IMO.

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I just feel like with my w I need to pursue, I wonít by the advice on here. Itís so hard to imagine attracting someone without pursuing. When I think how I won my w back in college I had to pursue.


Of course you pursued her before you married her. That is a natural instinct for men. But once she loses respect in you as a man/husband.......everything changes.

I don't think your W is having a MLC. Some of her actions toward having more youthful appearances might cause you to think so, but the same can be said for a WW, too.

I think you M a very spoiled, self-centered, manipulative woman. You picked up where her parents left off and spoil her even more. And the entire time, you resented having to do all the work while your spoiled W wouldn't lift a hand. It seem no matter what you tried, she would not share in the responsibilities that come with having a home and raising children. She's not going to change with you as her H, b/c you can't understand & accept how she is......and she expects everyone to treat her like she's special. I mean, she has the audacity to ask aren't you going to clean the floors (or whatever)? This is the type of female that only a very Alpha male would know how to put her in her place, and she would NEVER try to pull that cr@p on him again. He would get that little spoiled brat straighten out the first time her sense of entitlement surfaced. There are two types men you'll find in this kind of MR. He'll either be a strong Alpha, or her victim.

You have a serious situation that I don't know if you are really aware, and I'm talking about the dynamic between you, your W and your daughter. Maybe your son, as well, but you just haven't written much about him. Here's the thing. Your daughter has some unusual attachment issues tied to her mother. And mother expects you to show up and take care of any discipline if she has a problem with daughter. So, guess who the bad guy is? Also, I think there are little things that happen you don't catch. Like when you saw daughter whisper something to your W, and the W says little D is worried you will use her drinking and use it to take the kids away. That sounded very staged, IMHO. I think your W sets you up, and you don't see through it.

The night she started throwing her tantrum and overturning tables.....acting like Real Housewives of NJ, is when you might have prevented future violent behavior, by keeping the evidence for the authorities. She knew the second she saw you grab your phone that she had messed up big time. But as always, you were busy going back & forth between child and wife, trying to calm everyone down. I think the biggest problem for you is that you desperately want to believe your W will respond like a normal, loving, rationally-minded wife. Maybe you have lived in denial all these years, while she steadily grew worse. She is very manipulative, and I wouldn't be surprised if she had a lot to do with your D's problem.........and especially, in how your D feels toward you. I think there is much more that you haven't shared, which is understandable. ((hugs)) Frankly, considering how easily your W comes unhinged, I would be concerned about how it affects, and will continue to affect, the kids.

Actually, once the D is final, I think your W will depend on you to keep the kids most of the time. She just has to save face with her friends, currently, and later she will make up some defense for why they are with their dad most of time. Once you are really out of the house for good, and she can't manipulate you to do or pay for the work that needs to get done around there......and the kids refuse to help......she'll start turning on them. But first, she'll get you to handle any problems she has with the kids......just as you've done in the past.

So, my advice about your sitch is to forget about working on the MR. Don't move back into the house. Do whatever necessary to protect your finances. Get whatever professional help your children need. Let go of the emotional rope you have tied to your W, b/c she will manipulate for the rest of your days if you don't get wise to her ways. You should be so lucky if she has nothing more to do with you!

Sorry if my words are painful. I have read the many posts to you from others, and it's been hard for you to follow their advice. You have a lot of fear, but I don't think you are being totally honest (maybe with yourself) about the reasons behind the fear (except maybe the child support). Like I said, maybe you are in denial about some things concerning your W. You seem like a good and decent person. It angers me to see decent human beings hurt by spoiled, manipulative people who only think about what benefits them.

My grandmother use to tell me, "Beauty is as beauty does". I encourage you to consider a woman's attitude and actions as much as her outward attractiveness.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Wow is all I have to say. I mean the advice here is absolutely golden!!! I would like to address everyoneís comments and answer some questions possibly.

LH and ST, as far as the debt we each have our own cc and bank accounts. I do have a lawyer and they told me that once she filed, everything was separated. I am not responsible for her debt. Thank god!!!!

AS that was a wealth of information. I go to a IC and am coming to grips what my fear is. Thinking I will never find someone else that I will really care for. The other is that she will get mad and go after the full child support. But little by little as I go out and see women checking me out and going to the gym a lot (which is helping my self esteem), going to counseling, Iím realizing I will find someone else, whenever that is. I am learning to just love myself and who I am. I really lost myself in this process. I havenít been on here in a few days because I have been GAL I have been so busy. Iím starting to find the old me. As far as crying about my kids, little by little I am getting use to it. I really try to fill those days up with things I enjoy that I havenít done in a long time. Or have never done and wanted to.

ST my w recently said that to me. That she hasnít been happy in a while and she needs to finds her happiness and the kids will be just fine and will move on. I could see that if there was abuse or violence in the home but there was none of that. Again I know that the ww has a warped sense of reality. I get that now and donít let her words affect me anymore.

IH I feel your pain. My w is completely selfish. And has become money hungry when her motto for a long time was, itís just money. Now every little thing she is trying to get money from me. In the past I would have given in, not anymore. Her line to me recently was, ďI donít have those kinds of feelings for you anymore.Ē I said ok. And she was shocked that I didnít really respond to that. I know I am a great person with a big heart. She is a fool for leaving me. I am getting more secure with myself and my confidence is going back up. Unfortunately I am getting to a point where I want the d to happen now. I deserve happiness. I have been beaten down for too long.

Sandi, I donít know what you do for a living but you should have been a therapist. Itís like youíve known my wife since she was a little girl. You are spot on with everything. You mentioned about how she thinks everyone should treat her like she is special. So true, she has always expected everyone to kiss her a$$, and when people donít she stops talking to them. Your words donít hurt, they open up my eyes. I know at this point the d will happen. Since I know it is going to happen, My fear was d and the child support. I no longer fear that. She got a taste of that the other night. She told me the child support # we agreed on wonít be enough for her and she is going to want more. I told her I wonít agree to more. I said I have to agree to it(again we are going through mediation). She said she was going for more, I said that fines get your lawyer again I will get mine and we can battle this out. She said you know you will lose. I said you never know but if thatís the route you wanna go then thatís fine. She then changed the subject. She was expecting me to be scared and back down. I am no longer afraid of d. She is absolutely spoiled and manipulative. I will not let my fear dictate how i act anymore. I know the next big thing she will try to manipulate, the pool. She is in for a rude awakening, she will have to pay for someone to take care of it. I am predicting it now, her exact words will be, you will do that to your kids? You donít love your kids? I know that is coming: not buying it. This is what you wanted. Welcome to your new reality. Sandi I donít mention my s a lot because he is a good boy and didnít show sides and hasnít really acted out.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
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Stand strong there Wolf. Start for knowing yourself, learning how to love and respect yourself. Then youīll find you wonīt NEED somebody else but youīll WANT someone.

The gift of time Cadet says...

Patience, perseverance, hope.

(((Wolf)))


WW H(me): 51
W: 47
T: 26 M: 21
S: 16
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
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