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Hey Steve great to hear from you!! You really felt in your situation it helped her wake up? I hope that I am a little lucky and it helps her to wake up. Obviously this is not a punishment this just happens to be her new reality. Itís not about her wanting me back to help her pay for things but appreciate what I did and that there were times she I said ďnoĒ we canít do something it wasnít because I didnít want to but I did it because of financial reasons. All I know is my wifeís ďfogĒ is real thick and itís going to take time for her to get through it, if she ever does.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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W,

I am going to challenge you again here and I want you to think about this before responding.

If your W is an emotional bully, a narcissist and treated you mostly like a servant. Why do you want her back?


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ÔŅĹHappiness equals reality minus expectationsÔŅĹ- Magliozzi
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LH I have an answer for you. Itís a 2 part answer.
1. When I was little I was an absolutely ugly kid. No girl would give the time of day. So in high school I started to work out and eat right. By college I started to attract women and it was great. Then came along my w, when I saw her I was in love right away. She is absolutely gorgeous and when we started dating I couldnít believe she went for me. I was in awe that I went from this ugly ducking to an attractive guy but forget that I got this beautiful woman as my w. So, yes shallow I feel like I will never get another woman like that again. I know stupid!!! As I type this it makes me think why am I so upset if thatís the only thing that I like about her?
2. I just fear change. I am a simple person and can wear the same sneakers for years as long as they donít look disgusting. To think I have to find a new house, a new woman, get use to only see my kids half the time stinks. I know my reasons are horrible why I would want to stay with such a woman, but you asked. I know the minute I get my own house settle in and start dating, things will work out. Iím just not there yet.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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Hi Wolf, I have followed your story as it's similar to my own just a couple of years later and I see similarities in our wives.

LH's question is a good one and one I have asked myself many times over the past few years and your answer is also similar to my thinking. The reasons are not horrible, like you said it's that fear of change.

It's a hard thing to see right now but in my case having had my own place, doing what I want when I don't have my kids and doing many great things with them when I do have them, away from the toxic environment where I never felt I could do enough, where I just felt like someone's slave, I have realised how much better a father I am first and foremost.

If your W is a narcissist/emotional bully, it's likely that it will get harder before it gets easier. Mine gets in touch when she isn't getting her supply especially if I have been NC for awhile. She is also great at playing the victim, I have heard most things over the past few years since I having been moving on with my life.. "I am punishing her", "I am teaching her a lesson", "I am selfish and nasty", "I am a awful father", "I will go to jail if I don't give her money" (this one she told our kids which put them in tears and her response was that they didn't understand her).

It's all about trying to lower your confidence, guilt trips, anything to keep that supply.

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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Hey Steve great to hear from you!! You really felt in your situation it helped her wake up? I hope that I am a little lucky and it helps her to wake up. Obviously this is not a punishment this just happens to be her new reality. Itís not about her wanting me back to help her pay for things but appreciate what I did and that there were times she I said ďnoĒ we canít do something it wasnít because I didnít want to but I did it because of financial reasons. All I know is my wifeís ďfogĒ is real thick and itís going to take time for her to get through it, if she ever does.


It is funny because my W, when a WW, would say things like "I don't want to stay for the wrong reasons". IE because I make good money and she enjoyed the fruits of that labor. Really what she was saying was "I really like all you provide but I want to sleep with other dudes."

I told you that above not to get your hopes up, but to encourage you to keep doing that. Regardless of whether it wakes her up or not, it was the RIGHT thing to do. So many LBSs, LBHs especially, would have ponied up to try to "nice" her back. That never works.

She huffed. She puffed. But she respected you for not just whipping out a credit card.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Unfortunately I have two friends like you. Their Ws trip them like $hit and they are so fearful of change they put up with it. The more they try to please the more they get crapped on. In my personal life I do not give out unsolicited advice so I just validate their feelings. One time I asked told my friend he should ask his w for his b@lls back and he just rolled his eyes at me.

Wolf you will get through this and realize you deserve better.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ÔŅĹHappiness equals reality minus expectationsÔŅĹ- Magliozzi
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Steve thank you for your input. Iím glad I made the right decision. That was not easy for me since I usually give in. I felt better later on that I made a stand.
LH. I am working on getting my ďpartsĒ back. I know I still have a ways to go, but I am working on it. My emotions are still very much a roller coaster. I wish they werenít. I know it takes time. It just hurts while I am in his mess.

I have read so much on here lately and man I really gets me thinking. I read about other peopleís situation, a lot of Sandiís writing. I get what everyone is saying it just seems so counterintuitive. I read about the picnic outside the castle, the light house, sandiís advice to people. I just feel like with my w I need to pursue, I wonít by the advice on here. Itís so hard to imagine attracting someone without pursuing. When I think how I won my w back in college I had to pursue. She is old fashioned where she doesnít believe in women making the moves. One of the problems with our love life. I always had to make the moves. She never did!!! So I feel like giving her space is only creating more space.
Steve you said my Situation reminded you a lot of yours. Am I on the right path? I know she is hurting I just canít tell if itís because our marriage is ending or if she is having second thoughts, but her damn pride would never let her admit she made a mistake.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 773
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Originally Posted by Si_07
Hi Wolf, I have followed your story as it's similar to my own just a couple of years later and I see similarities in our wives.

LH's question is a good one and one I have asked myself many times over the past few years and your answer is also similar to my thinking. The reasons are not horrible, like you said it's that fear of change.

It's a hard thing to see right now but in my case having had my own place, doing what I want when I don't have my kids and doing many great things with them when I do have them, away from the toxic environment where I never felt I could do enough, where I just felt like someone's slave, I have realised how much better a father I am first and foremost.

If your W is a narcissist/emotional bully, it's likely that it will get harder before it gets easier. Mine gets in touch when she isn't getting her supply especially if I have been NC for awhile. She is also great at playing the victim, I have heard most things over the past few years since I having been moving on with my life.. "I am punishing her", "I am teaching her a lesson", "I am selfish and nasty", "I am a awful father", "I will go to jail if I don't give her money" (this one she told our kids which put them in tears and her response was that they didn't understand her).

It's all about trying to lower your confidence, guilt trips, anything to keep that supply.



This is exactly what my EXWW does. She sees me doing well and just has to start making threats and putting me down. Calling me a liar etc. She literally told me I was going to end up like her mom. Her mom is NPD and cant manage money to save her life. Her mom ended up fat old, bitter and alone.

Im already far from being anything like that. It actually made me laugh. Im about to move out. D was final yesterday. Im sad but it feels good to know I am not who my EXWW convinces herself I am.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Steve thank you for your input. Iím glad I made the right decision. That was not easy for me since I usually give in. I felt better later on that I made a stand.
LH. I am working on getting my ďpartsĒ back. I know I still have a ways to go, but I am working on it. My emotions are still very much a roller coaster. I wish they werenít. I know it takes time. It just hurts while I am in his mess.

I have read so much on here lately and man I really gets me thinking. I read about other peopleís situation, a lot of Sandiís writing. I get what everyone is saying it just seems so counterintuitive. I read about the picnic outside the castle, the light house, sandiís advice to people. I just feel like with my w I need to pursue, I wonít by the advice on here. Itís so hard to imagine attracting someone without pursuing. When I think how I won my w back in college I had to pursue. She is old fashioned where she doesnít believe in women making the moves. One of the problems with our love life. I always had to make the moves. She never did!!! So I feel like giving her space is only creating more space.
Steve you said my Situation reminded you a lot of yours. Am I on the right path? I know she is hurting I just canít tell if itís because our marriage is ending or if she is having second thoughts, but her damn pride would never let her admit she made a mistake.


W, you have to back off and not pursue because it just feeds their narcissism. They feel entitled. They feel luke they are above us and dont respect us. Not pursuing shows them that they are not the center of the world.

When we back off it gives them time to reflect on themselves. Someone with NPD cant handle that well because they need their control and that fix of negativity. They have a need to make themselves feel better by putting someone down and getting a rise out of them.

When you stand up for yourself and dont fall for the bait, all they can do is stare at themselves in the mirror. The hope is that they will actually recognize their behaviors and realize they are the ones that need to fix themselves. Unfortunately, most NPD people wont even step up to the plate and recognize their issues.

When I pulled back hard and away from my EXWW, she pursued hard with negativity, threats, attempts at control. I can clearly see that she hasnt even acknowledged her part in the failure of our M. She is the same person and I seriously doubt she would ever change herself.

Thats why, although it hurt badly, I accepted the D. I didnt push or stop it. She filed and I didnt delay. I gave her what she wanted and showed her that I value myself and that my morals and integrity mean more to me than the person she is.

My EXWW lost me. She was a fool to lose me. I know this. I am a much better man now.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
Joined: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Steve you said my Situation reminded you a lot of yours. Am I on the right path? I know she is hurting I just canít tell if itís because our marriage is ending or if she is having second thoughts, but her damn pride would never let her admit she made a mistake..


Wolf, I think you are. Ovr shared a new saying yesterday:

When they want you, you will know. When they don't, you will be confused.

WAWs/WWs are the trickiest creatures on the planet. Because from minute to minute they don't even know what they want. So how could you possibly know, and even if you did the next minute it would be different.

What I can tell you is that the pursuit-distance dynamic is truth. Pursue and pressure and she will high-tail it the other way. Back off and give her space and she will come sniffing around wondering what has changed.

WASs are like Blue Racer snakes. If you run from them they will chase you. If you stop running they will stop chasing. If you go towards them they will run the other way.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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