Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Quote
I filed a response to his petition that asks for a separation working toward reconciliation.


Why? (Oh and welcome to the board and sorry you are here.) Have you read DR? How does filing this petition fit with DBing?

Here is the thing, you have to let him go to get him back. Trying to coerce, control, or manipulate him back will not work. If you detach and GAL (IE move on) he might come around. No guarantees.

Last edited by Cadet; 05/14/19 04:29 PM. Reason: fix quote html

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Threads merged - please stick to one thread until 100 posts


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 47
I
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 47
My therapist said that I should do some of the techniques but give plenty of affirming statements because he seems to respond to them. I guess I don't understand divorce busting. I am still reading the book.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
IL, please don't start a new thread until your old one hits 10 pages. It is easier for us to track things if you stick to that. I've asked Cadet to combine this one with your old one.

Originally Posted by InLove42
I don't know his phone number, so I emailed him asking him to unlock the controls on our AC and to deposit money in the account where our bills are coming out. He ignored both messages over the weekend.


You need to protect yourself financially. If this keeps up then contact a L. It sounds like he's trying to "teach you a lesson".

Quote
He started railing into me about how he was glad he was getting the divorce, how I am out partying with my friends, etc. (I hang out with my girlfriends and went salsa dancing a couple of times), how I spent the weekend away, and how I am trying to pick up men. I told him again that I am not wanting a divorce. He was angry and yelling at me. I said again, "I am not looking for another man, but you can't expect me to stay home. I do not want a divorce. I would prefer a separation. I love you." He slammed the door and took off.


Don't engage when he's in a mood like that. If he keeps it up then establish a boundary- say "I will not be spoken to in a disrespectful manner, if you can't stop this then you need to leave." If he doesn't leave then tell him you will call the police. If he still doesn't then call them. DO NOT PUT UP WITH THAT.

Quote
I said it's so stupid. There's no reason we can't reconcile.


Quit saying things like that, you are putting pressure on him when you do. He knows you want to work on things, but he doesn't. So when you tell him you do you are basically saying "I don't care what you want, I want to work on things." That just increases resentment. Instead tell him "I don't want a D but I know you do and I will not stand in your way. I will respect your wishes on this."

Quote
He gave me a hug at the end of the night and said he had a lot of fun, and he was glad we could hang out like this. (mixed signal).


Not really, it's just cake-eating and trying to "dangle the carrot" to make the D go smoother. Just work on your detachment and give things time, right now he's done but many months from now he may change his mind. Until then don't fall for all his silly games.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 47
I
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 47
Really, he broke down crying twice. He didn't seem to be playing games. Has anyone else encountered this? When I pulled back too much, he became angry and thought I was out looking for guys. I want to stand firm, but I don't want to make him think I've just completely moved on.

He said he missed our life together and he missed how we were together, but he was afraid he couldn't go back. He said he missed our Friday night dinners, and he missed the songs we sing. He spent the whole night with me, laughing and talking, watching a show together. He had coffee with me in the morning and gave me another big hug, held me for a long time. Has anyone seen this before?

I do agree that I still need to say I don't want the divorce, but I will do what you want. I did sort of say that. I said I wanted a separation, but obviously it would be up to him in the end.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Do you feel everything was fine in your MR until his biological mother come into the scene? Did he ask you to search for her?

It sounds as if he, his mother, and you were not prepared to emotionally deal with this new dynamic. Based on what you've written, it seems that all three of you made mistakes that affected your relationships. It can be resolved, if everyone wants it resolved. If everyone doesn't.........then you will have to give him time to sort these issues. I suggest you not discuss divorce or separation if you can avoid it. Don't initiate relationship conversations, b/c it causes pressure for him, which isn't good when he wants out. As much as you may feel the need to talk and try to persuade him.....he is not in the right frame of mind to do what is best. Although it is scary, you just have to let off the emotional pressure, and when he applies pressure......don't react emotionally.

Was he adopted? Did he have a good relationship with the woman who raised him, and how has that relationship been affected since finding his biological mother? He may fear losing his biological mother, and if his W and new found mother are at odds.......he will feel he has to pick one of them. He may feel he has to chose between his adopted mother and biological mother.
Listen, I married a mamma's boy, so I understand what comes with that situation. Right now, your H is a mamma's boy! Apparently she is influencing him in not so positive ways. However, he is focused mostly on their relationship. That may be very painful for you. As the wife, we are suppose to be......and want to be number one in the life of our man, but for some guys it is really difficult when they love their mother and wife who don't get along. It gets really complicated for them if they have to choose allegiance over the other one. It's like if the wife throws her father in the H's face. If she compares the H with how wonderful her father is and how the H will never measure up to the man her father is.......or if she's a "daddy"s girl" to the point of acting like a spoiled brat, she will lose a lot of brownie points in how her H feels toward her. A mother or father should never be competition for one's spouse. Unfortunately, it happens, and most of us did not take classes on how to deal with it when faced with that problem.

Here's the thing I've learned. You cannot make him "see" by talking about it. You can't persuade him to see your side by talking about it. Not in this particular situation, it just does not work. You cannot take your anger out on him. It will only hurt you in this situation. You cannot control what he does or how he feels. As his W, you have influence in how he feels about you.......and that is a power many women fail to recognize. You can influence his feeling towards you in a positive or negative sense. It's just like before you were dating and you wanted him to like you......so you showed him your best side. You knew you would not win his favor by whining, pouting, threatening, pleading, having a temper tantrum, giving the silent treatment, or the cold shoulder, (at least, I hope you knew better). The same applies after marriage. Those type of actions will only push him further away. You need to be the girl he fell in love with back before the wedding. I'll bet you showed him your sweetest and prettiest side, b/c you wanted him to love you. Is he seeing your sweetest side now? It's tough when you are upset, and I get it.

Another thing I've learned is that in order to win his heart, you must not pressure him. As women, we are inclined to tell our H what needs to be done around the house. We tend to get into a habit of telling our H's what to do.......and sometimes he may be justified in feeling as if he is being controlled. I hate the term "nagging", don't you? Do you know that if we tell our H something more than once, he sees it as nagging? shocked

How I wish I could go back in time and do things differently! Maybe you will consider the things I'm sharing and one day your H will see that he can love his mother, but that he loves you in a totally different way. Even if his mother is a b'tch, you can influence how your H sees you. However, you can't do it by explaining to him. You can't do it by making his mother the enemy in his eyes......even if she is. He has to discover it for himself, and that may take longer than you can tolerate. How do you combat it? By being the sweeter person. She may be his mother, but she's not his wife and can't give him the affection of a wife. That's the hard lesson I had to learn. I would get mad about my MIL and take it out on my H by b'tching, pouting, silent treatment, even withholding sex b/c I was not a happy camper. Why on earth did I think that type of behavior would make him adore me and want to spend his time with me, rather than his biggest supporter......which was his mom. I am a talker, and I use to believe that's how you resolve everything. When it comes to our H's, we have to be careful about preaching and b'tching. Know what I mean? If the conversation gets one-sided, we need to stop. When we start getting emotional (angry, crying, raising our voice, etc.) then we lose what we truly wanted when we first started the talk. I mean, he may say he'll try......but if he feels pressured to do it in order to keep the peace.......won't he just silently resent his W? And how guilty are we about punishing our H with bad behavior?

When I read your story, I could help but feel that there was something you were leaving out. When did he start complaining about you partying? Was this before or after finding his mother? When you go out with your girlfriends, do you go to bars? Are any of these friends single or divorced? How often do you go out with them? Did he ever have trust issues in the past? If you know it upsets him for you to go out with them, why do you continue? This is not a judgmental question, I just want to see where you stand.

Before his mother came into the scene, was he going out as much as you were? What would he do while you were out with friends? When did this really become an issue? Is he type that is concerned about how others see you?

Are you currently employed or do you solely depend upon his income to pay the bills?

You have to let go of your controlling ways. That is essential. I suggest you give him all the space he needs. Don't talk to him about his mother, and never try to make her the bad guy. Trust me when I say it will not serve you. He has to see it for himself, and right now he doesn't want to see anything imperfect about her.

Don't initiate contact unless it is extremely important. If you need to relay something of business, I suggest you do it by text or email. Don't text or email about the relationship. If he contacts you, then respond. Be professional and polite.
Control your emotions when interacting with him.

Speak softly and tenderly. Don't try to act pitiful or turn on tears to make him feel sorry. Don't accuse and blame, b/c that will put him on the defense and make you look like the bad guy. Don't pursue him, b/c that is pressure. If he comes to the house, be sweet and friendly as if he was a guest. Don't talk about any sore subjects. Focus your attention on him, as long as he is being nice. If he tries to push a conversation about divorce, just tell him that's not what you want, but you won't stand in his way if he wants it. We can't force people to love us. Know what I mean? If he loves you, he will eventually find his way back to you, if you let go of the reigns. Many couples remarry after a divorce, so who knows how the future will turn out. I just know that the more we try to control people and/or situations, the more destruction we do to ourselves and our relationships.

May I ask why you are in counseling and how long you've seen an IC?

BTW, I don't give the same exact advice when the roles are reversed, so if you read posts from LBH's.......they will be different from what I'm telling you here. Just saying that so you won't get confused.

I hope to talk with you more about your sitch. Although I have not been in this exact situation, I've been in similar shoes to where I can empathize. Post often. The more you will share, the more we can see the overall picture, and hopefully, be able to help.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by InLove42
Really, he broke down crying twice. He didn't seem to be playing games. Has anyone else encountered this? When I pulled back too much, he became angry and thought I was out looking for guys. I want to stand firm, but I don't want to make him think I've just completely moved on.

He said he missed our life together and he missed how we were together, but he was afraid he couldn't go back. He said he missed our Friday night dinners, and he missed the songs we sing. He spent the whole night with me, laughing and talking, watching a show together. He had coffee with me in the morning and gave me another big hug, held me for a long time. Has anyone seen this before?

I do agree that I still need to say I don't want the divorce, but I will do what you want. I did sort of say that. I said I wanted a separation, but obviously it would be up to him in the end.



If you are afraid of him thinking you have completely moved on, then you are doomed to failure. As I said earlier, YOU HAVE to move on. He has given you no other choice. That is why telling him it is stupid not to reconcile, or petitioning the court for an agreement to work toward reconciliation is not going to get you where you want. The fact he gets angry at you pulling away should tell you something: he wants you has his safety net. "If A doesn't work out, then I want to make sure B is there to catch me." How does it feel to be someone's backup plan?

Move on. Leave him behind. Give him the space he has asked for to figure out his crap. If he figures it out before you are no longer interested, fine. If he doesn't then that is fine too.

The harder you hold on the more he will try to break that grip. Let go and he just might realize what he is losing. But if you don't let him see he is losing you he will never realize that.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
sandi2 #2849224 05/14/19 07:11 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 47
I
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by sandi2
Do you feel everything was fine in your MR until his biological mother come into the scene? Did he ask you to search for her?


Everything was okay. He was going through a bit of a stage where he was staying at work later and telling me to deal with it, but he only did it a couple of times. We both looked for his mother because he had an anomalous ECG, which eventually turned out to be nothing.

Originally Posted by sandi2
It sounds as if he, his mother, and you were not prepared to emotionally deal with this new dynamic.


Not at all! We were not prepared to deal with this. I had no clue and thought they were being obsessive. I kept telling him to establish boundaries. I was overbearing and demanding. A huge mistake.

Originally Posted by sandi2
Did he have a good relationship with the woman who raised him, and how has that relationship been affected since finding his biological mother? He may fear losing his biological mother, and if his W and new found mother are at odds.......he will feel he has to pick one of them. He may feel he has to chose between his adopted mother and biological mother.


His dad says his biological mother left him at his grandmother's house. After finding his mom, she claims she always wanted to get in touch with him and that his father kidnapped him even though she had custody but she didn't know where he was. I told him I didn't think that was plausible, but he became angry so I dropped it.

He was raised by his stepmom and she said he texted her happy mother's day, so he obviously is still in touch.

Originally Posted by sandi2
You need to be the girl he fell in love with back before the wedding. I'll bet you showed him your sweetest and prettiest side, b/c you wanted him to love you. Is he seeing your sweetest side now? It's tough when you are upset, and I get it.


Yes, I have a hard time with that one. I was that way last night, and he was very receptive. I'm making an effort, but I am scared of him hurting me all over again. This feels like an emotional rollercoaster.

His mother definitely supports and validates him, which I must admit is hard to do when he is leaving me, but I understand where I went wrong.

Originally Posted by sandi2
When I read your story, I could help but feel that there was something you were leaving out. When did he start complaining about you partying? Was this before or after finding his mother? When you go out with your girlfriends, do you go to bars? Are any of these friends single or divorced? How often do you go out with them? Did he ever have trust issues in the past? If you know it upsets him for you to go out with them, why do you continue? This is not a judgmental question, I just want to see where you stand.


I don't party! Ha ha! Our married life was super routine. This was a huge complaint of his, that I never gave him enough space because my friends were his friends, he stopped doing hobbies and started investing more time in our religious commitments. His mother's husband does completely his own thing, so they started telling him I was co-dependent because we did everything together. I reconnected with an old highschool girlfriend who is divorced and we went to a salsa dancing class ONE TIME. It wasn't at a bar. It was an actual class. He doesn't like her because she is three times divorced and has a promiscuous past. She did try to influence me to cheat with a coworker who had a serious crush on me, and I told him. He hated her since then. But we don't go to bars! She has small children. I stay at her house and chit chat. He has no clue where I am because I leave the house. He does as well.


Originally Posted by sandi2
Are you currently employed or do you solely depend upon his income to pay the bills?


I am employed. I make more than he does, which is why he wants to live with mommy and go back to school.

I have been talking to him about his mother, but I've been being super positive about her. I am like, that's wonderful!

Originally Posted by sandi2
Don't initiate contact unless it is extremely important. If you need to relay something of business, I suggest you do it by text or email. Don't text or email about the relationship. If he contacts you, then respond. Be professional and polite.
Control your emotions when interacting with him.


I have stopped emailing him. He will not give me his new number, but he is now on his mother's phone plan, so I'm not sure if that is why. The hard part is not being emotional to him. I love him, so when he is nice and laughing and hugs me, I swoon. I can't help it. I get a little emotional.

Originally Posted by sandi2
May I ask why you are in counseling and how long you've seen an IC?


Only a couple of sessions and it's a marriage counselor.

This is all great advice. I know I need to detach more. I have a hard time with that, but he was holding out his arm for me to touch it so many times yesterday that he is confusing me a lot. I have a hard time controlling my desire to reconcile.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by InLove42

This is all great advice. I know I need to detach more. I have a hard time with that, but he was holding out his arm for me to touch it so many times yesterday that he is confusing me a lot. I have a hard time controlling my desire to reconcile.


He is controlling you. You need to read the pursuit-distance dynamic thread. When he feels control over you slipping away, he does things to reassert it. This is why detachment is so important. You need to work on getting to a place where he could tell you something shocking...something like he slept with 100 women at the same time, and it would be like water off a duck's back to you. When you react to anything he does or says emotionally, it gives him feedback about whether it is okay to run further or away, or whether he needs to give you a kernal of hope to get you back under his control.

Your goal is to BREAK that control. Again, he can't feel like he is losing you until he starts losing you.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote
Everything was okay. He was going through a bit of a stage where he was staying at work later and telling me to deal with it, but he only did it a couple of times.


Wow, is that his usual way of responding? Were you nagging him about staying late?

Quote
We were not prepared to deal with this. I had no clue and thought they were being obsessive. I kept telling him to establish boundaries. I was overbearing and demanding. A huge mistake.


Maybe at some point the three of you can attend family therapy. However, I think your H will need to realize he wants his M, before therapy will help the relationship between the three of you.

Can you expound on why you wanted him to establish boundaries? Did you feel she was overstepping, or that they were spending way too much time together?

Quote
I'm making an effort, but I am scared of him hurting me all over again. This feels like an emotional rollercoaster.


It will feel like a roller coaster if you don't stay grounded. You must stay focused on what you are doing, your goals, where you are going and how you choose to deal with challenges. If you focus on him and/or his mother, or if he is going to divorce you........it will take you on the ride of your life. We'll talk more about that later.

Here's what I know. You will not win his heart by demands, anger, accusations, blaming, nagging, and all the other stuff women do to gain control over a situation they fear they will lose. You fear losing your H to this other woman, who just happens to be his mother. Naturally, you feel threatened and jealous. Any woman feels that way when another female is getting their man's time, energy, attention, and love. We KNOW when we are not priority! Nobody else has to inform us. It's not that you don't want your H to love his mother, or spend time with her. If you had not felt threatened, you would not have felt the need to tell him to establish boundaries. You were demanding b/c you were afraid of losing him. I understand it, but I learned that is not how you win your H's heart. He does not see the beautiful woman he M when you are laying out your demands. No man thinks his W is a precious treasure when she is overbearing. He sees her being a b'tch with a whip.

Have you ever heard an old saying that a man chases a woman until she catches him? Women don't usually have trouble in knowing what to do to get a man interested, fall in love, and want to get M. It's after the wedding we change. Men change, too, so I'm not putting it all on women. I'm just talking woman to woman here. It's not easy to go back to being our best selves, when the man knows us so well. It may feel a little fake at first, but if you are determined to become the best version of yourself, you will be surprised to discover just how much power you have in changing your relationships for the better. That's not the same thing as control. You only control one person.

With that said, have you ever made personal goals for yourself? I mean, seriously? I want to suggest that you do some very deep soul searching, and decide what you want to improve in yourself as a woman......and as a wife. Then decide how you can go about accomplishing these goals. Set small, attainable goals and work on them every day. Divorce Remedy has a chapter about setting goals, so you can already be working on this while waiting on your book.

Quote
His mother definitely supports and validates him, which I must admit is hard to do when he is leaving me, but I understand where I went wrong.


Men love cheerleaders! Did you know that a man's number one desire is to be admired? If the W isn't his cheerleader, there are plenty of other women who are willing to do the job. At the moment, your MIL is trying to make up to her son for her decision to abandon him when he was a baby. Naturally she's going to praise him, and say whatever makes him good. She wants him to like her, so she's not going to point out his faults. Some W's think it is their job to tell the H what he does wrong. Unless she is quite talented in how to words things very delicately, I think it backfires on her. I mean, it doesn't make you fall all over the person who points out your faults. What is the 101 in flirting? Well, I know it's not telling him what he does wrong. wink BTW, there is a thread on validation, if you need a little help in this area. Look near the top of newcomers page for Wonka's cheat sheet for validation (or something like that).

Quote
I don't party! Ha ha! Our married life was super routine. This was a huge complaint of his, that I never gave him enough space because my friends were his friends, he stopped doing hobbies and started investing more time in our religious commitments. His mother's husband does completely his own thing, so they started telling him I was co-dependent because we did everything together.


Okay, great. Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote
I reconnected with an old highschool girlfriend who is divorced and we went to a salsa dancing class ONE TIME. It wasn't at a bar. It was an actual class. He doesn't like her because she is three times divorced and has a promiscuous past. She did try to influence me to cheat with a coworker who had a serious crush on me, and I told him. He hated her since then.


Ah, well that makes sense why he would feel so insecure about you hanging out with her. Can you see how it would be a thorn in his side to know you hang around someone who encourages you to cheat on him? BTW, I applaud you for sticking to your vows. I will speak from experience when I caution you about becoming vulnerable to an affair when you feel rejected or emotionally neglected by your H. Some women can go for decades, and then some particular stressful situation wears them down......and someone comes along and says something that feeds their ego. Anyway, that's another subject for another time.

Quote
I am employed. I make more than he does, which is why he wants to live with mommy and go back to school.


Does it bother his male pride that you earn more than him? Does he have a full time job?
Some of these things are helping to see a clearer picture. I don't think it was one thing (that I can determine at this point) that weakened the MR before mommy came on the scene, but maybe putting some things together helped in working toward him running to her for comfort. Male pride can be crippling, and so far I see two things that were working to make him feel insecure in himself as a man.

Quote
I have stopped emailing him. He will not give me his new number, but he is now on his mother's phone plan, so I'm not sure if that is why. The hard part is not being emotional to him. I love him, so when he is nice and laughing and hugs me, I swoon. I can't help it. I get a little emotional.


To clarify when I speak about controlling your emotions, I mean the negative type. Yelling, crying, berating, threats, temper tantrums, etc.

Quote
This is all great advice. I know I need to detach more. I have a hard time with that, but he was holding out his arm for me to touch it so many times yesterday that he is confusing me a lot. I have a hard time controlling my desire to reconcile.


Detaching seems to be the most misunderstood subject by all accounts. It doesn't mean you no longer love him or desire to save your M. It doesn't mean to act cold, hard, rude, or mad. You can still love him, be happy, warm, validating, etc. It means that you remove yourself from his drama. You go on with your life, and if he comes to you and wants to reconcile, that's fine. If he doesn't want to reconcile, you will be fine. That's the attitude you need to adopt. You stop trying to pressure him to stay with you, or whatever. You stop pursuing the man. The main thing is for you to know it is going to take a long time for him to sort out all these new feelings about his mother and where/how to place her in his priorities. I can't imagine the affect it has on an adult to meet their mother for the first time, and try to understand why she left her baby. It compounds everything when the two women he loves most are competing for him. One day he will realize who is the love of his life, but right now, he's having to deal with too much. Maybe that's why he won't give you his number, b/c he has too much emotional stuff going on. Maybe he's going into his second childhood, IDK.

I've enjoyed talking with you, and I appreciate you answering my questions. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Page 5 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard