Married couple from Scandinavia

[DnJ]

Good Morning Ben

The Paris restaurant run sounds like a lot of fun. I do hope it goes well, and you tell us about it. Yeah, the chances of me going to Paris, from the other side of the globe, to go to a restaurant are pretty darn slim.

I know this all sounds good but I don´t feel any excitement at all let alone any hope that our marriage could be rekindled. I don´t trust her anymore. Before all this happened I had 100% trust in her.

What´s odd is that I am more excited about the upcoming restaurants in Paris than enjoying quality time with her. But I still love her and would be happy if she came out of this some day.

Detachment and indifference took time and an asserted effort to achieve. It takes time and an asserted effort to roll them back.

When you were striving for detachment you wanted it, needed it. You were working towards that goal knowing it was the right thing to do, the right thing to get to, and there was no doubt of the value or requirement of achieving it. You felt horrible. You knew and felt that detachment was so very needed.

At this point with indifference and detachment, there is no horrible feeling, no pressing need or desire to find your way to an other place. Feelings cannot drive this process; indifference with the absence / lessening of feelings removed any need or pain so that cannot propel you.

Thoughts and feelings will not work here, dig deep, your beliefs, values, and convictions are the force you need to tap into. Those slowly changing core attributes that make up Ben. All that inner work you’ve done. All the self discovery of your beliefs - what you can will accept, what you can’t won’t accept. If you remember from a while back our discussion of accuracy and can vs will and can’t vs won’t.

...you will be surprised at what you can, will, accept.

You’ve come very far Ben, and done very well. Now find your core beliefs. Strengthen the ones you like, change the ones you don’t like. Become the BenB you want to be.

Very few things are “can’t”, they really are “won’t”. And won’t is a choice and it can be changed. Can’t is permanent - use it sparingly and appropriately.

I pass on this advice to be accurate in thought and heart, especially when digging around in your core values - see them clearly.

Your lack of excitement is normal considering how indifference you had to become. The lack of trust is also normal. She broke your trust, it will take time and consistent actions from her to regain it. Don’t worry that you feel you cannot ever trust her again. First that is a feeling, and those change. Second make that “will not” instead of “cannot”. The sentence is much better and accurate.

Don’t worry that you feel you will not ever trust her again.

That difference is huge. With this mid set, regaining trust is possible. Dig deep Ben and see which way you currently and truly see this matter of trust. Is it cannot or will not? There is no right or wrong; I am not going to jump all over you.

This is a starting point. Finding out where you are is important. Once you know that you can chart a course to where you want to get too.

I´m still worried this is all cake eating and throwing crumbs.

Yes, this is a valid concern. Let’s consider it.

There is no real way to assuage it. Asking her will lead to problems, and the whole lack of trust - well - that makes any answers not trustworthy.

So you need to find an answer or an acceptance irrespective of her.

Let’s get the big one and the big fear out of the way first. If she is caking eating, and you don’t know about it, or even if you did know about it - you cannot control her. You can only control you - and you fear your action or inaction in this matter. For now, as difficult as it is, let this go. You don’t need or want to upset the apple cart looking for proof that may or may not exist. She may be throwing crumbs - so what. Have faith that she is working through whatever she need to. You keep doing what works.

What if she is not cake eating? These aren’t just crumbs, she is actually make progress. Again, have faith that she is working through whatever she need to. You keep doing what works.

She is apparently working through some stuff in MC, making progress, spending time with you, going on dates / restaurant trips with you, and actually enjoying herself around you. There is ample indication of her making positive movements, small steps. In the midst of all this, don’t lose your path.

It took time for her to get to this point, and it will take time for her (and you) to get to a better place. Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t. Go slow and at her speed. Let her set the pace. Like you have been doing.

...but I don´t feel any excitement at all let alone any hope that our marriage could be rekindled.

Indifference takes time to unwind. Don’t rationalize or justify based on feelings.

But I still love her and would be happy if she came out of this some day.

It is ok to take your love down off the shelf once in a while and enjoy her company, like a date. And then put your feelings back into storage. You were hurt and understandably your guard is up. Let her show consistency in her actions to help you find your way.

By the way. The usage of “but” is justifying something. Your feelings, your lack of hope, your beliefs, your path. “But” gets in the way. It legitimizes where you are and what you feel or don’t feel, and prevents you from digging.

Read both of those sentences sans “but”. Those are now good starting points. I am sure you have a belief regarding them. One to alter and one to strengthen - each of those sentences / thoughts. I’m pretty sure you can see which is which.

Keep at it Ben, you’re doing good.

DnJ

[BenB]

Thank you DnJ,

For us, Paris is only a 2 hour flight and quite cheap

You are absolutely right. I took a while to get to where I am today. It will take time for me to get to a better place as well.

So this is what happened in Paris -

We had several dinners and lunches booked. The only thing I perhaps regret is that there was too much good wine so we were both quite intoxicated. So I don´t remember everything as clearly as I would have liked. We had R talks Friday evening during dinner and Saturday lunch, I´m not sure who initiated them but I think it was her.

Here´s what I do remember. She said that she doesn´t feel like she felt last month and the previous months before that. She said she is very happy we didn´t make hasty decisions and she is very happy she didn´t move out like she suggested a while ago. We spoke for a while and I don´t remember what I said that made her answer "I think that´s unnecessary to talk about because I don´t see us breaking up anymore. At least that´s how I feel".

I didn´t agree with her nor did a disagree. I think I basically just nodded my head when she said this. After the Saturday lunch I felt like it´s enough of R talks so I avoided it and only talked about light subjects. A few times as we were walking around the city, she held my hand, like before all this happened. I pretended like I wasn´t affected by it but it felt so good. I realized how much I have missed touching her. We weren´t intimate with each other during the trip and I didn´t expect us to be either, especially not since she just got her period the day before we arrived. When we got to the park by the Eiffel tower she took several pictures and then wanted to take a selfie with us. She used to do this all the time when we traveled but this was the first times since all this started she´s wanted to take one. She hasn´t posted the selfie online though.

Other than that, things were great. We laughed, made inside jokes so the entire restaurant was looking at us on pretty much every lunch and dinner. Another older couple were looking at us, smiling and raising their glasses of wine. She talked several times about other places we should go to.

I know this all sounds great, but I am terrified. I am so afraid to let my guard down and get hurt. But I am also so thankful for everyone at this forum. To think I was seconds away from ending this relationship and you guys talked me out of it.

On Thursday we have our next MC session and on Friday her parents are coming to visit. I´ll let you know how things go then.

[BenB]

I wish Sandi could read my thread, I´d love to hear her thoughts. Can anyone give her a nudge? Is there anyway I can message her?

[AnotherStander]

Ben, that sounds really great, congrats!! Keep up with your DB'ing, that's for life. Get out, GAL, give her time and space when she needs it.

I know this all sounds great, but I am terrified. I am so afraid to let my guard down and get hurt.

Completely understandable. No need to let your guard down right away. She needs to EARN your trust again. Give it time.

[BenB]

Ben, that sounds really great, congrats!! Keep up with your DB'ing, that's for life. Get out, GAL, give her time and space when she needs it.

I know this all sounds great, but I am terrified. I am so afraid to let my guard down and get hurt.

Completely understandable. No need to let your guard down right away. She needs to EARN your trust again. Give it time.

Thanks AS, even if I should always keep this in mind, it´s nice to be reminded so I can stay on track.

[BenB]

Journal -

Had another MC session today. Therapist asked W if there is anything she would like to talk about on today´s session.

W: Nothing that comes to mind, everything feels well at the moment. Perhaps I´ll think of something as we start talking.

Therapist then asks me the same. I answer that pretty much the same, I mention that we went to Paris and a little bit about what we talked about. I did mention that we had a lot of R talks and they seemed good although I had so much wine that I wish I remembered more. This seemed to surprise my W at first, she added that she remembers everything. She almost looked slightly concerned so I added that I remember most of it. I do remember that no conversation was bad in any way and I mentioned this as well. W looked less concerned after that.

Then I added that lately I´ve started to feel happy about things, non relationship related things. For months I felt no joy about anything even though great things were happening in my business life so I told the therapist that I´m happy to feel happy again. I also mentioned that W had said in Paris that she thinks things might work out between us now, that she feels more positive about that. But that that´s the one thing I didn´t feel anything about.

Me: It´s positive that she is saying that of course but that doesn´t make me happy like I thought such a statement would when this all started.

Before therapist answers, W jumps in -

W: That´s probably because you don´t want to get hurt, you probably have your guard up subconsciously.

Me: Maybe

Therapist asks W what made her want to go on that trip:

W: He mentioned it first and I said I had to think about it. But the next day, he didn´t bring it up again. If he had done that I don´t know if I would have wanted to go. I like to be able to decide, with no pressure. If he would have started talking about fun things we can do there, trying to convince me, I would have felt pressure immediately. This all feels just like when I was on sick leave for burn out depression. I couldn´t say no to people because I was afraid of their disappointed reaction which resulted in taking on too much work. So when there was no pressure about going to Paris I felt like I wanted to go. Same as when we were in London last month, he asked me but said if I don´t come, he´ll go with one of his friends. That way, I knew I wouldn´t disappoint him by saying no and this made me want to go.

After this we agreed to take a months break from MC. When the session ended, I thought to myself that we have gotten something out of this but for a solution based therapist, she hasn´t exactly done much more than listen to us talk. I thought we would be hearing more suggestions from her on things to do.

On our way home, we stopped by a food court to have dinner. I asked her how her day at work was and we spoke a little about that. She then asked how my work has been lately and after talking about that for a few minutes, we touched on the subject of my next business trip. I will be leaving for Athens, Greece on July 12 and return on July 15. I don´t know if this was a good idea but I casually said "you should come". She looked at me and said "I can´t, I have work" to which I added that my flight leaves at 5pm that Friday so she would only have to take Monday off from work. I quickly moved on to the next subject and we went home to watch some TV together.

Tomorrow, her parents come to visit.

[BenB]

Quick update

I said last week that I don´t want to go back to that therapist anymore. W asked why and I explained that for a solution based therapist she mostly sits quiet and that it doesn´t seem like she has any ideas at all. W seemed to agree and that was it. I emailed the therapist that we will let her know if we need help in the future.

I have another highly recommended therapist who happens to have her office 5 minute walk from where we live but I think we´ll take a break for now. And I don´t want to suggest MC if we go again. It should come from her.

There has been zero intimacy since we came home from Paris but that was expected. The visit from her parents was fun. The day after they left, we went to see a movie and had dinner after. Everything feels just like normal, I sometimes forget we´re in a crisis but then I remember that we don´t touch each other and haven´t for a long time.

Today she is going out to an outdoor concert with her work friends. I had arranged the tickets for this many months ago, something which I won´t do anymore following the advice of others here. Two of her friends are coming to our place for drinks first so I´m meeting my brother to spend the rest of the day with him.

The vibe at home is pleasant. She seems to look forward to our time together, watching TV shows and having dinners. Yet there are still times when I feel the urge to calmly say that I am done with this and she can go ahead and move out now. I wonder why that is. Perhaps because I know that would shock her. Perhaps because I don´t like the idea of having a room mate living with me and not a partner.

Great things have happened with my work lately. As if things weren´t going well already, my business partner and I were given a great offer. Should we accept it, it would mean I am financially better off than I could have ever dreamed of. We are discussing the terms the next week but it looks like we will accept. W came home while I was on the phone with my business partner. After the call she asked what was going on and I explained it, she could see the excitement in my eyes. I think my hands were shaking when I hung up. The deal means not only would I earn a large sum right away, but 5-6 years from now I would receive an even larger sum which could be huge if all goes well.

She seemed happy for me but inside I was thinking "THANK GOD FOR THAT PRENUP!!!". I can not thank myself in the past more! Having that prenup has relieved me of so much stress, knowing that if we separate, she walks away with nothing. Not a single thing. No furniture, no cutlery, no decorations, nothing. I may sound cold but I don´t care. She did this to us, I will feel no remorse for her walking away with nothing.

One final thing: the therapist and W agreed that taking out the contraceptive implant could have caused the hormonal imbalance that helped cause all this. She took it out after the wedding so we can start planning for children. So we talked about it during dinner and that she should get a new one. She then said "if we decide to have kids, I can just take it out again". I was surprised to hear her say that since I thought children wasn´t something she wanted anymore. I didn´t respond but said she should get it if she thinks it will help her. This was two weeks ago but she still hasn´t made the appointment yet.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Ben

Congratulations on the business offer. I am guessing your business partner is equally hands shaking excited.

Glad to hear that the visit with her parents went smooth, even fun.

Have a great day.

DnJ

[BenB]

Today the relationship ended. I ended it. I can't explain my decision here unfortunately. I'm afraid she will find these pages some day.

I arranged so she can move out next week. When I said it, it was a shock to her. She hasn't spoken much the entire day. Right after, she said she needs time to process this and will probably talk later.

[joejoe1]

Ben,

We are here for you! You will need time to process your decision as well. Keep us updated. Congratulations on the proposal.

Joe