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The forums on Divorce Busting are filled with so much great information. As I read through the posts, I like to grab the nuggets of gold and share.

I wish everyone well during these difficult times. Remember that everything will be OK no matter what the WAS chooses. Keep doing the right thing. Get in alignment with your core values. Stop doing what is not working. Try new ways of interacting. Let go of the past and do not fear the future. Be in the present. Commit to personal growth. Set goals for the future and keep taking steps to get there. Read about boundaries and learn how to set and enforce them.

As far as the wayward spouse, always assume the wayward spouse is in an A (Hint:This is your first 180). Do not reveal anything about what you know and how you found out. "We both know that is a lie." is a great way to deal with any deception.

Previous quote threads:
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (7)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (6)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (5)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (4)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (3)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (2)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (1)

Link to a recap of my sitch


My Favorite posts:


Originally Posted by Coach
Confidence by and far is the key in being attractive to women. . Women want to feel safe. A man that is confident projects that magnetism. A confident man is busy taking care of his home, career, body, cars, spirit, finances, mind and kids. When a woman sees her man handling his business and taking care of things it's attractive. Women nag when things aren't being taken care of, it's her way of letting you know what is on her mind. The problem is if you are a "nice guy" or pleaser you don't want to burden your wife with your problems because it might upset her. This makes her feel unsettled (not safe) because you are not being honest with her and you are avoiding her feelings. How can she feel safe if you can't stand up to her feelings?

One thing that was a huge 180 for me was how I reacted to my wife's worrying. I used to try and fix it, explain to her why she shouldn't feel that way and then tell her what I would do. (Women do you understand why men have this desire to fix things for you?) So the solution now is to really listen to her, try to understand her POV and then ask a probing open-ended question: "How can I help/support you with that?" It was eye-opening to me to find out alot of times that I wasn't expected to do anything except listen.

How to build confidence- get busy, take action, do something and talk about it.

Physical- strength training (it works wonders on the young men I coach), look good, dress like a man, walk tall, join a team

Mental- keep learning, read, take a class

Emotional - love yourself, know yourself, accept yourself, forgive yourself, let go of fear, be a good partner, become intimate

Spiritual - understand your light and dark sides, challenge your view of God, embrace quiet, pray, be grateful

What else is attractive? Make goals and plans then share them with your spouse (intomesee). Have a sense of humor and know when to use it. Build excitement into your life. Don't be to predictable. Be responsible for yourself. You define your legacy.

When you become responsible for yourself you have the confidence to "set them free." Your happiness and your life is all about you handling it the best for you. When you let someone else dictate how your life will be run then you are a victim and that isn't attractive. The DB techniques are all about doing healthy things for yourself. You are in control of your thoughts, feelings and actions. So when your world is collapsing around you, how attractive is it to be in control and moving forward? That's the calm, assertive energy you want to give off. It's powerful.


You can handle it. Strength and Honor.
Originally Posted by R2C
This is my list of how to attract a female.

1) Start off by living a healthy lifestyle. Make healthy choices when eating. Drink plenty of water. Get good sleep. Exercise regularly. Take care of your body. Alcohol in moderation. Set a goal to reach, and then maintain, your ideal weight.

2) Make good grooming and hygiene a ritual. Accentuate the differences between the sexes.

3) Dress with style - fit, compliment, cohesive, unique, personal touch

4) Attitude (state of mind) – Happy (smile), Cool (Open and relaxed body language), Calm (slow), Confident (eye contact), humorous, seductive (ozz sex), Depth (mysterious, surprise ), Sincere , Interesting, Engaging

5) Awareness/Flirting ( 93% of communication is non verbal (body language) – study and enjoy what you find attractive and your body will naturally follow your thoughts. It is the ladies job to catch and hold a mans eye, several times if needed. This signals it is OK for him to approach. It is the mans job to approach the woman.

6) Social proof - Enjoy interacting with everyone, especially attractive members of the opposite sex. Maintain your personal boundaries with everyone.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47467&Number=2057224#Post2057224

Change how the think of you:
Originally Posted by Coach
Too many people here are fighting a emotional battle with their WAS. You have to realize that your logic will not change their feelings whether there is a A or not. Your words won't do it, your telling your WAS how sorry you are, how you will change, rubbing her feet, and pleading. These things reinforce how they already feel about you. To change the way they feel about you, you must change the way they think about you.

How do you do that? Most of us vets give the same advice in different words. The easiest and very productive way of changing the way your WAS thinks about you is to - agree with them (validate), drop the rope (let them go), and GAL (take care of yourself, become interesting). When someone comes in my office and is upset about their account the easiest way for me to calm them down is to agree with them. Now they can't be mad at me because we are on the same side of the table. If I try to tell them why they shouldn't be upset (logic) how are they going to respond?
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=46578&Number=1998146#Post1998146


Agree with them:
Originally Posted by coach
Why would you not agree with them? It's how they feel, it's real to them. You defending your position is not going to change how they feel. It's just going to frustrate them more that you don't "see" them.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2054770

Detach:
Originally Posted by coach
To me detachment means letting go of outcomes. I don't control the outcome so I shouldn't place my worth on the result. Doesn't mean stop caring, not trying, not having a plan, or giving up. I am solely in control of myself. If I do my best, I did all I could at the time then it has to be enough. I can learn from the experience and improve the process for future experiences.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=44595&Number=1852615#Post1852615

God bless you all



"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by LH19
Remember back when I told you told you to ask her not to text you unless it involved the kids and you ignored my suggestion. This was to help you detach and stay out of the friend zone. You have to make it clear that you are her lover not her friend.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by si13
I said if it's ok with you I'm going out, told her I didn't know where just was.
Originally Posted by Steve85

Remember, you are getting your respect back. The guy that commands respect doesn't ask for permission. Next time:

- Get ready.
- Be ready to go OUT the door.
- Pass by her and say "I am going out for a bit."
- Leave without saying anything else.
- If she protests, follows you, continues to ask questions, listen and validate.

She is testing you on all of this. To see your resolve. She wants to see how easy it is to reestablish control over you. You are the one that needs the eye opener, not her. You need to open your eyes to the fact that the more you focus on her with your DBing activities the less chance of success you will have.


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Originally Posted by LH19
W I understand that you need time and space but I am not moving out and abandoning the children. You are welcome to comeback if you so choose.

Don’t bring up the logistics unless she asks and then make it clear you are not leaving the master bedroom.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Gekko
I am as cool and matter of fact as can be in response.

Never get sucked into an emotional debate with the W, let her rant, threaten, stomp her feet, etc etc. It's sounds like Charlie Brown's schoolteacher to me. Never fear what W will do - in fact don't fear anything. Accept what is happening, DB, GAL, stay calm, cool and in control at all times. Sure there will be times when the emotion starts bubbling up inside, but keep it there. Vent to a friend or IC if need be. W doesn't control you, you control you. Who cares if she gets upset? She wants a D, this is a D. But don't be vindictive, be fair and reasonable, know when to compromise and when to hold firm. These are some of my many mantras as I navigate my sitch.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
I've read all that stuff like The Game by Strauss, Robert Greene, etc years ago. I need to revisit it.

The second part is what I couldn't understand or get, is how do I apply to this situation like mine or Wolfie's, when somebody knows you from the inside out for several years. That's when it hit me just now, and I figure it out the dynamics of why you have to have them think differently about you. Because that is the excitement and the dynamics of when someone first meets you, like a first date. So if you are perceived as new, changing, mysterious, exciting, etc, it's almost like learning about a new person. If you aren't attracting them back, then either they have moved on or you are not changing.

I have these little blips of moments in my thoughts as of recently where I'm starting to see the whole DB process in synopsis, steps, processes and checkpoints. I think I'm starting to see the forest for the trees.

Step 1 is to accept the current reality. Make goals, changes, adapt, and conscientiously stick to them.
Step 2 is to detach and GAL to boost happiness, purpose, self esteem, etc.
Step 3 is to set boundaries to regain self respect, trust, intuition, confidence, etc.
Step 4 is to develop independence and eliminate codependency and control.
Step 5 is to redevelop your wants and needs.
Step 6 (If applicable.) Is to put yourself and your children first.
Step 7 is to allow time and space to heal.

Step 8 only comes, and revolves around attraction, once respect and trust is re-established if it ever is? Only then can you proceed to re attract, conscientiously and willingly.


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Originally Posted by sandi2
You don't bring up other issues when you state the boundary. LBS's should not approach the WS about more than one subject at a time. So, make it your rule of thumb to stick to only one subject whenever you need to address or confront her about it.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by sandi2
You can have the boundary in your own mind, but you don't have to say it to her. You just do the actions if she dishonors your boundary.


I think you were busting to use these statements you've read in DB threads. If you had said it earlier, it would have been more effective than coming in at the 11th hour to tell her. ... Do you see how your timing was way off? Timing is everything.

Your timing was way off. You went after the separation. You went to her house, and you went late in the evening.


Your place and time was bad. You chose a place where she could kick you out.... You wanted to use these "statements" you've read on the board. There is nothing wrong with those statements from the board, but if not said in the right place in the right time frame.......they are not very effective, IMHO. ...Let me explain something about those statements on the board. For the most part, they are examples you can use when confronting the WW, or when telling her your boundary, or when she is telling you lies. However, you can't use them with the expectation it will change anything in the sitch. They are examples how to respond to a wayward or to confront........but they are not solutions. If you saw them as some way of making her come to her senses, then I'm afraid you will be disappointed. Yes, they sound strong and maybe have a punch to them, but they were not meant to use to pull the WW out of her fog.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
You may not be familiar with 25 as she hasn't posted on here in the last few months, but one of her gold-plated pieces of advice was that it's the LBS's job to "keep the way home paved and smooth." That's really it, that's what DB'ing is all about. It's not to throw a hook into her and drag her kicking and screaming back home. It's not to dig potholes and set up roadblocks making it harder for her to drive home. It's not to put your front bumper against her back bumper and shove her farther down the road. It is simply to live your life and leave her alone, to be the rock and the lighthouse so that when she looks back she sees someone she WANTS to be with. If she chooses to drive home, then your job is to make that drive as easy as you can. BUT SHE HAS TO WANT TO MAKE THE DRIVE, AND SHE HAS TO DRIVE, NOT YOU.

So with this in mind, ask yourself if you are keeping the way home paved and smooth. .... You can't "nice" her back, I think you've already learned that. But unfortunately you've made the classic LBS mistake of then trying to "mean" her back, but that is equally ineffective. It's time to drop back, regroup, focus on you and the kids and well and truly leave her alone.



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Originally Posted by Hurt213
Stop using your mouth for anything but breathing and eating.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Despite what you are going through, you have got to remain mindful of how important your parenting responsibilities are.

No matter your differences, you should make every effort to unite in love behind your children and offer them unconditional support. And if your WAS is not willing to be a proper parent, then you should double down on being the best parent possible, because your kid/ kids need it now more than ever.



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Originally Posted by Adam04
For Mother’s Day weekend it’s my week to have the boys. I told W they can spend mother’s day with her. She did invite me over to the house since her side of the family is doing a crawfish boil. I declined. I asked my S6 and S11 what they want to get mom, and S6 said chocolates and S11 said flowers. We will spend Saturday creating something personal for her like a thank you card from them for all the wonderful things she’s done for them. I might encourage S11 to make a poem or S6 to draw a picture. Whatever they want to do for mom I will encourage.



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Originally Posted by Gekko
Regarding dealing with criticism from the W...The first thing I would say is never get emotional in response to criticism. The reason you don't get emotional is because W does not have the power to get you riled up with her commentary. Understand this - she is not in control of you and does not have power over you. She can't make you feel bad about yourself. You seem to be doing a very good job of staying calm, keep it up. Don't let her get you worked up or suck you in, EVER! Stay strong in this effort.

Second thing would be never get defensive or justify yourself or your actions/in-actions to her in response to criticism. Don't try to explain or use logic because you are dealing with someone who will not connect with that, and more importantly if you try and explain or rationalize you are giving credence to W's criticism and attitude. Not defending yourself can be really hard sometimes as this is a natural tendency, but what you are doing is playing into her game and operating in her frame instead of yours, and that is not where you want to be.
Originally Posted by Hallzy9
W walked in later and started nitpicking and criticizing the way I had washed the baby bottles. She even complained that I was shaking the bottles the wrong way. Looking for everything and anything she could criticize me about. To this complaint I responded calmly "thanks for the advice but my way works just fine too."

Originally Posted by Gekko
You handled this well in my opinion. I call it the "thanks for the input, but" response, which is a good one. Another option in this circumstance is to say nothing, just look her in the eyes for 3 or 4 seconds while you continue to shake the bottle your way. You can do this with a smirk and raised eyebrow, or just with a blank stare.
Originally Posted by Hallzy9
She texted me later a picture of a tiny cut on our sons hand. I replied "oh no he must have gotten that from holding the open can." She replied "cuz you grabbed it out of his hand" implying blame. I had had enough of the criticism for the day and replied, " I am tired of your criticism and blame. Yes I took the can from him because it isn't safe for him to be holding that".

Originally Posted by Gekko
This one is a little trickier because it's a text and not face-to-face. You could consider not even responding to the picture text as you know what W is trying to do by sending it. You know the blame game is on. I have used a couple different approaches in similar circumstances - one of which is ignore, another is "OMG do you think they're going to need to amputate?!", another is "thank God I was able to get that can out of his hand so quickly and he only has a tiny cut".

My W has hit me with some crazy blame-game stuff, I will take anyone's challenge on this site as to who has endured crazier blame tactics, I'm going to win that one. My #1 response is "YOU think THAT was MY fault?!", with a smile or smirk. When W of course says "Yes", I just laugh. It's great.
Originally Posted by Hallzy9
Venting: I haven't mentioned it in my sitch much but W is highly critical and controlling. She wants everything done her way and if i do something a different way from her she lays on the criticism and blame. Things as insignificant as how to shake a bottle.
Originally Posted by Gekko
Your W may have anxiety issues that are the basis of her controlling behavior. Do a google search and youtube search on "anxious wife" and similar terms and you may find some helpful information.

I also think you should do a google search on "sh_t tests", where you will find lots of helpful information and insight. It sounds like you are a lot like me, in that you do not put up with much BS, and you have a good foundation to build on when dealing with BS from the W, so a lot of the tips you will find will come easy to you to employ.

Harsh criticism is a relationship killer. It starts a domino effect or chain reaction of bad interactions that much of the time leads to D unless the cycle is broken. All you can do is your part. There are lots of resources here and on the web that you can tap into to get more ideas on how to deal with your W's constant criticism. Pretty much everyone agrees - don't get emotional and don't get defensive, explain or rationalize. Do ignore, or act amused, smirk or laugh, or agree and amplify to a ridiculous level.


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Originally Posted by LH19
Don't beat yourself for thinking that is progress. It is, just not to the extent that you think. Below is a post I have saved and I think will beneficial to you.

Your wife believes you are the reason she is unhappy. As you probably know, the only way she's going to overcome that deeply held belief is for you to open the cage door and completely cut her free. If you engage in a relationship with her again it should only be under the conditions that:

1) She sees you as someone of extremely high value
2) She views a relationship with you as something much better than a life with someone else or a life alone
3) She's willing to work to win you

Without those three things, she's going to walk again down the line, because she really doesn't have the motivation to work with you to change anything, your relationship will keep seeking the same equilibrium it has had because of how your personalities and issues come together.

Given that you have to make things worse before they can possibly get better, separation may not be a bad choice, but I would advise pursuing a separation with the same rules you would have if you were divorced, which is to say that you don't continue to co-mingle your lives (aside from the kids) and you are free to live your own lives without social accountability to the other person.

That way she can really see if that way of life is better or worse for her. Prepare yourself that in the beginning she will view it as better, mainly because she'll find new found freedom and has convinced herself that it’s what she wants. It may take six months or two years for reality to set in, but it certainly will.

My advice would be to lean in to what she wants, agree to separate, and work productively with her on the plan with the presentation that you're on board and plan to enjoy this change also. That's going to make her wonder. You want her to wonder what you're thinking, and from this point forward you shouldn't tell her anything about your frame of mind -- nothing at all.


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Originally Posted by LB55
I'm getting closer to the point of not having a reaction when she tells me things like 'I have plans Friday night, so make sure you pick up the kids on time'. I have my reaction in the truck, and I yell at her there, by myself, and get it out, but she can't get a rise out of me anymore on much of anything, she keeps poking and prodding to see if she can. Picking a fight with me has been her way to keep power over me, since I would apologize for whatever she blamed me for every time.

Ready to be done with the process, so the proverbial noose around my neck can be removed. She likes having that power over me and controlling my finances via the court. It will be over soon enough.

Starting to get interest from other women. Hard to not cave and just start a new relationship, given that its been 18 months since I lived at home, even though its only been 5 months since she filed.


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Originally Posted by sandi2
Confrontation:

Some people get the idea I am not in favor of confronting the WW about her affair. That's not true. I'm not in favor of confronting her when the H doesn't have a plan of action, with swift and harsh consequences if necessary. He has to be ready to physically separate, b/c telling her how much he wants to work on the M, etc., is the weak. She needs to see him standing up to her and being disgusted by her actions. She needs to wonder what he is going to do next. The last thing he should do is plead for the MR, and ask her to work on the relationship, yada, yada, yada. She'll see this type of reaction as sniveling, disgusting, and pathetic. She may not show those feelings on the surface, but it's b/c she is playing him for more time.

He should not "ask" her what she wants. He should not "ask" her what she plans to do. That gives her a sense of power over him. He cannot show emotion. He must stand straight & tall, and speak with a voice of confidence. Don't yell, lose control, cry, beg, start naming all your faults (she sees it as justification for her actions). Don't start apologizing for your part in the breakdown of the relationship, and don't take this time to start trying to validate her. Don't tell her you've already forgiven her!! In other words, this is strictly about you informing her that you know she has been concealing an affair.......and that you won't remain in an open marriage. (If you aren't ready to enforce that boundary, then don't say it.) As the man, and faithful spouse, you are the one who call the shots at this point. She may say she wants a divorce. Okay, don't argue and say that's not what you. B/c she has to see you being "done" at this point. I know it is scary, but her wayward mind will be doing cartwheels. Don't waver if she says ANYTHING other than she was wrong and wants to make things right and save the M. This scenario doesn't happen often, but it happens sometimes when the timing and approach is right.

One of the biggest mistakes I see H's make in the confrontation is them letting it spin into a long discussion about their relationship. This is not the time to engage in a relationship discussion. You don't sit down and start discussing everything wrong in the MR. Understand? This is not the time for all that talk. If you give her a crack, she'll use it to slither away from the purpose of this confrontation, and she'll twist things around until you won't know which end is up. This is the time she needs to know she has been caught. You have her number, and you don't intend to play along any further. You keep it short, on point, and then you leave the house without telling her where you are going or when you'll be back. You ignore her texts (b/c she will text you the minute you leave), and in fact, turn off you phone. You want nothing to do with her. She needs to panic!! She won't panic if you are assuring her that you want to save the M.

Confrontation merely let's her know that you know enough......and she'll either go further underground, or play games. Most WW's want to know exactly how much the H knows and how he found out. Don't tell her everything you know or how you found out. This is very important. Don't get into guessing games with her. You are the one in charge here.

Where I disagree with some H's and how they confronted the WW, is that the majority of H's seem to think this confrontation is going to shock the WW and she'll immediately show remorse for the affair. Some H's want to use the confrontation to find out more about the affair. And, a lot of H's seem to think the WW will end the affair after she's confronted. I have to say this rarely happens, but it's possible. I mean, even if the WW shows certain responses the H is hoping to see.........it is seldom genuine. Actually, the confrontation puts the W on notice. She usually temp checks him, secures her Plan B, takes her affair deeper undercover, and continues the game playing. IMHO, the H should be so convincing in his approach that it sends her into panic mode to realize she has been discovered and now she could lose her family.....for real.

It's difficult to give a mock confrontation with what to say, etc. Let me share some of my opinions, and some that I found in an article.

Before confrontation:

Have plenty of proof she is cheating. Don't go in accusing, if you don't have the proof. You don't have to have this confrontation right away. Take plenty of time to observe her stories or accounts about her activity.....so, if she tries to lie her way out.....you recognize it and remember what you observed. Based on your evidence, think ahead of what she might say to convince you it's not what you think and she's not really cheating. You have to be prepared by thinking how you will respond to her denials. Don't argue with her, just remain calm and in control. You know what the intell shows.

If you have one very trustful friend (not any mutual friends), you can show the evidence that friend to get an unbiased viewpoint. I don't advise asking relatives, or putting it out on social media, but that's MHO. Having a solid longstanding friend can give you moral support, but be careful.
Have a sense of your game plan before you approach her. Know what you will say/do should she confess, and should she continue to lie & deny.

Don't confront if either of you have been drinking.
Don't have the confrontation late at night.
Don't confront in the presence of children, or where you'll likely be interrupted.
Choose a quiet atmosphere, with only the two of you.
Don't confront if either of you are already having a high stress day, showing anxiety, impatience, anger, etc.
Make sure there is plenty of time for this confrontation. Don't do it right before some appointment, going to work/school, etc.

The confrontation:

You may say you need to discuss something serious with her. Once you have her attention, you can something like, "I have reasons that suggest you might be having an affair".

She may immediately want to know how much you know....and especially, how you found out.
Say that her behavior led you to become concerned and that you felt it was warranted to a find out what was going on....... given how serious cheating is.

She'll probably get upset about you invading her privacy, or try to turn the conversation around to focus on your faults, even blame you for her affair. She may tell you that you're crazy and/or imagining things. Calmly bring the focus back by re-affirming it was her behavior that has given you serious concerns.... and that this conversation is about whether or not she is cheating on you.

"I knew there were problems in our MR, and I had hoped we could work through it. However, I feel you've completely disrespected me with this affair".

"We can choose to get help in healing our MR, or we can end it". "I won't stay in an M while my W has an affair". So, we both have a serious decision to make".

Understand there is no way to completely predict what your W will do. She may shock me and burst into tears begging for forgiveness. But, I don't think she will. Her heart is hard & cold.

If she should show remorse and says she wants to save the M, then be prepared to tell her you need a few days to consider what it would take for you to remain in the M. IMHO, you need to tell her this b/c you don't want her thinking you are jumping at the chance to be with a cheater. So many H's are too eager and accept the WW back too easily. She has to really work hard to get out of that wayward frame of mind.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I've been working on a novel that explains why WAS's do what they do and you might find it helpful, here it is:

"____________________________________________"

Yup that's it, nothing they do makes sense, LOL! There's really no figuring it out.


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Originally Posted by Steve85

When they want to reconnect you will know. If they don't, you'll be confused.


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Originally Posted by Living
Know this...this stuff takes time. That was a tough pill to swallow for an impatient person like myself. However there is no way to rush it. Try to take things one day at a time. You’re going to fall, dust yourself off and get back up. You’re going to make mistakes, be kind to yourself.

I think I’ve broke all the DB rules at least once. Lol! I can totally admit it. However what I will tell you is DB techniques really do work.

This isn’t an easy road to walk. However, we must have faith that we will come out of this stronger than we were when we started this journey.

Please know that I still slip up. There are times when I still let my H upset me. I’m better at controlling the need to react. I’m learning that not every action deserves a reaction....Take time for yourself. Self-care is essential during this journey. And again, just know healing takes time. This too shall pass.

Sending you encouragement and love. You’ve got this, just keep the faith!


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Originally Posted by sandi2
Don't let anyone scare you into doing something you don't want to do. People here can warn you about some incidents they know happened, but at the end of the day......it's easy for us to tell you what to do. Know what I mean? If you get charged or penalized in some fashion, who has to pay? Not us! Read the pros & cons, and get the legal advice of your lawyer, and do what you feel is best. Just be aware! I think that's what everyone is trying to say.


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Originally Posted by uRworthy
Hello all. I am an old timer....11 years post bomb drop. Man, how did that happen?LOL!

I haven't posted in a while and I am not sure what prompted me to post today, but here goes.

You will not die. That's the truth of it. I thought I would. I really did. I did not think I would survive it. For a lot of reasons.

But i did. Mostly because of the generous, loving people I met here, my wonderful therapist and my son. But also because of me. The work I did. The strength I found.

I came kicking and screaming into DB. I could not get it for the longest time. It made no sense to me. Detach?? Let him go?? Find me? What??? My marriage was ending. The life I knew was gone. How could doing all of that help?

So, I kept making excuses. I kept fighting the idea of all of this.

Until one day....I didn't.

And that is when I had to roll up my sleeves and do the work.

It isn't easy this. I had set backs and I ran into my hole. The people here...my people... wouldn't let me do that for long. They challenged me and consoled me and pushed me. Held me up when I couldn't do it myself. It was a long journey...mainly because of my stubbornness...Be quiet, Mach. smile.

I can promise you this: Once you decide and I mean really decide to let go....your life begins anew.

You see, they cant move through their stuff, while you are hanging onto their pant legs. And you cant move through yours either. How can you see forward when they are in the way? You way down there? They are running towards a life they think they want while you are weighing them down.

The only way to do this...is to leave them to do their thing. And it will be ok. You will be
growing and changing and becoming who you were always meant to be.

Leave them to their journey. You walk yours.

You wont die from this. You will be reborn.


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Originally Posted by LB55
She decided to start some R talk once we were done with the kid discussion. I didn’t ask questions, just listened and validated her feelings. There was less blame and finger pointing so that was good. She talked for about an hour. Dinner was ready, so it was time for me to go. She kept asking me if I had something I wanted to say. I simply said I’m here to listen. Before I left she said that when she is ready to hear my feelings she will let me know. I’m good with that.

I had never listened that intently to her before. Eye contact, repeating portions of what she said, etc. At one point she asked why I was looking at her like I would have a couple years ago. I had read that one can reduce defensiveness by remembering a good time from the past during a tough discussion. So that’s what I did.

I was happy with how I handled it. No arguing, just an hour of validation.


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Originally Posted by LH19
I’ve got news for you, this has been going on for thousands and thousands of years. Women leaving betas looking for alphas. Google “hypergamy”.

That’s why leaving the house at the first sign of trouble was a bad move. Women are hard wired to look for strength and protection. First sign of trouble you fled from the home. Now she thinks you can’t protect her.

Not just attacking you I did it too. Learned and moved back in. Refused to give up the house in D. Best move I ever made. My posts are always my opinion on what I know now so other people don’t make the same mistakes.


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Originally Posted by Gekko
I have moments from time to time where I think "is this really happening?" I am thinking that as I type this. And now I have a smile on my face as I say "yes it is really happening, this is real life". Smiling not because it's a happy thing, but because smiling makes me feel better. And despite my sitch I do have a pretty great life and a lot to be very happy about. And I am ALIVE and get to experience life, whereas I have some good friends who are not alive anymore. I believe they would trade places with me if they could.

Life is beautiful and W cannot change that for me, she does not dictate my happiness. I am going to continue to enjoy everything that life offers, navigate shytty times like this with as much grace and calm as possible, keep my eye on the bigger picture, and continue to work on self-improvement and being a better man, father, son, brother, nephew, cousin, friend, employee and relationship partner. This is my life, I don't believe in reincarnation so this is my one shot at living on Earth, I will not waste any precious time letting W or the D bring me down. The future is wide open.


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Originally Posted by LB55
You should be doing something that gets you out of the house.

Go for a walk. Go sit at the beach and smell the air. Go to a park and read some DR. Breathe in deeply. Exhale slowly. Volunteer an hour at the humane society. Volunteer at a homeless kitchen. Volunteer at the local food bank. Go to church and speak with a minister. Total cost. $0.

Make a plan to do something with friends over the weekend for a couple hours.

Do ONE THING this weekend that YOU want to do. Not what you think she wants you to do. Doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. Don't go on a drinking binge. Don't start a relationship talk.


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Originally Posted by ozman
But I don’t even know why she is unhappy!!! Shouldn’t I ask her?!?
Originally Posted by Steve85
Do you like getting kicked in jewels?

If so, ask away. But trust me, that conversation WILL not go the way you want it to.

WASs will rewrite the entire history of your relationship. Something like:

"I never loved you. I was never happy. Even when we were dating. I just thought you were a good guy and that I could learn to be happy and love you. For all X years we were together I tried, and I am just done trying. I don't want to argue about it. I do not want to discuss it. I do not want to give you false hope. I just want to D, and go our separate ways."

We've all heard a variation of that.

My advice, let it lie, take our advice and pull back, give her space. No pursuit. No pressure. GAL, Detach. 180.

Become the best you can be, not for her....for you.


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Originally Posted by BluWave
Time is fascinating to think about and talk about because while time has passed (the past), there is still more time (the future) that has not yet happened. The known verses the unknown. While everything we do (our actions, thoughts, feelings, ideas) influences and thus creates the future, there is still no way to know what will ultimately happen. It is also impossible to predict the outcome or what our perception of it will be when it happens.

This is important for all of us, and particularity important in piecing, because we are going in on a leap of faith. We are trusting that if we keep choosing to work on our M, that over time, we will feel better about it. One thing to know is that when our S comes back to us, there is this initial wave/flood of relief and positive emotions, however they do not remain that way. There are so many other challenging things that can get in the way of the process. In order to stick it out, we have to believe that in time over the months (or in my case years), it will get better.

We cannot control the time that has passed but we can control the way we move into the future and how we influence it. That is something I have been reminded of recently and that I posted about in my own thread. The way I think about my H, my M, and how we interact definitely molds and shapes the outcome. When I was DBing, I didn't feel as if I had control. I actually did; I couldn't control him or if he came back, but I could control how I took care of myself and how I allowed him to treat me. I also can control the way I move froward now. I can't ever be 100% certain, but I can believe.

I am finding that I can move forward in a more positive way, if I allow more positive thinking. I cannot let triggers or negative thoughts control my emotions. I can see what is in front of me and accept my reality. I can choose to be loving, kind, patient and forgiving. I can also trust the process that this may actually work out. By allowing that trust in, over time, I am far more likely to have success. And if I don't have success, I am more likely to feel better about the failure because I will feel better about my efforts.

Most importantly, I have to trust that time really does heal all wounds.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
If she wants to cling to the notion that you gave her some kind of promise, then politely remind her she promised to stick with you "until death do us part."

She can't violate the biggest marital agreement of all and expect to hold you to a secondary marital agreement.


Originally Posted by AnotherStander
If she asks, just remind her that that was pre-marriage and is not subject to division. If she rants and raves and complains then just listen and validate. "I understand this must be very difficult for you."


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Originally Posted by LB55
I'm gonna challenge you to something. Get off this board for 24 hours this weekend. Go do something else. Anything else. Don't come here, don't read, don't post. Leave your phone at home. Take a break. I'm not being rude or trying to send you away; it really helps to do something else and get your mind off this for a bit. I do it regularly, check out for a few days or even a week; it helps me to think about things other than my situation.

You are just spinning like crazy. Its not healthy; take a break brother. Rome wasn't built in a day, your M wasn't screwed up in a day, and you aren't going to fix it in a day. Or in a single conversation, interaction, or otherwise.

What is something that YOU like to do? Not what you think she wants you to do; what do YOU like to do?


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Originally Posted by Destroyd
I have always wanted a motorcycle, but my W would be so pissed. She thinks they are so dangerous, and it is irresponsible since we have kids.
Originally Posted by LB55
Take a safety course. That is a responsible thing to do.

W would be pissed. Sounds like a tough thing for her to deal with. Must be so frustrating for her.
If you want one and can afford it, buy it. Validation at it's best!


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Originally Posted by curtis7
Greetings, this post lays out the potential plan and options I’m considering to follow in the coming weeks and months. This is the culmination of my research reading relationship and self-help books, listening to podcasts, watching videos on cheating, following advice from vets on my thread and others, and scouring countless sitches here to find what works and doesn’t work.

I have given a lot of thought on whether to stay or go due to the Infidelity and chose to stay for a period of time. I accept that BD and the A’s mean the end of my first MR, but I still would like to start a new MR with my W. I have chosen to love and forgive. I have recovered, worked on myself, and am ready to extend this choice to her.

I have listed these in the sequence I would intend to follow and the likelihood that WW would go ballistic by me taking these steps.

1. Ask W to attend RetroV

Simple question to WW, without much pressure. Gives her the opportunity to look at the program info and decide if our 18 year R is worth 1 weekend of participating. The hope is she would attend, listen to the presenting couples, really start to communicate with me, and have a life changing experience to realize that our MR isn’t that bad and can get better. I know that many don’t recommend RetroV until the WAS has expressed interest in R, however, I don’t see much harm in asking if she’s willing to attend. My expectation is low that she would agree to go.

2. Ask W to attend MC

Honestly, I’m not a fan of this option based on her mindset and active A’s. Even if she agreed to go, I don’t know that I could actually find a pro-MR C that would be able to get her to look at us from a different perspective. I have much higher hopes with RetroV based on the format and environment. I would probably skip over this one in the short-term.

3. Ask Sandi2 to talk sense into WW

Mildly joking...but seriously Sandi, I would pay for your flight to Florida and I have a nice guest room in a pool home. How does that sound?

4. Continue giving W time and space

I’m really at the point where I’m over this. Patience is hard, especially when you know the betrayal and lies continue. First known PA was over 7 months ago and she’s had multiple APs, I’m not a martyr to wait forever for her to come out of the fog / valley on her own without action.

5. Confront WW on what I want, reinforce boundary, give her the choice, and move forward.

This is the option that I have researched the most and is coupled with letting her go and tough love. I have read dozens of sitches that addressed confrontation followed by a hard stance of enforcing boundaries with consequences, going dim/dark, moving forward, and/or filing for D. Obviously, each sitch is somewhat unique and this approach has varying levels of success. Timing is critical.

I’ve read many posts from PuppyDogTails, RobX, Sandi2, R2C, AS, Steve85, LH19, TxHubby, Joejoe1, Coach, Greek, Wonka, TimeHeals, FightingFit, GH31, Rockedworld, Theoden, SmileysPerson, Zues126, CDBear, Pinhead, etc. containing scripts and outcomes on confrontation. I highly recommend newcomers read sitches of the DBers listed above when considering whether to apply Tough Love.

I’m still working on scripts and the strength of the statements to make. I have a few different versions that I’m refining. The basic message is to say that waiting for her to makeup her mind is no longer working for me. As long as she’s disrespecting me, our MR, and our family by having a relationship with someone else, that she cannot have a relationship with me. If she continues to contact OM, I will consider all of my options, including D. I tell her that I’m moving forward with my life, then go dim/dark, stop feeding cake (try to get the horse off my property), and only communicate logistics regarding kids.

The goal here is to regain some respect, open the cage door, and let her go to maybe hit rock bottom.

6. File for D w/out notice

Self explanatory. My beliefs and morals have been compromised far too long as it is. Start moving down the path to restore a life that aligns with my moral compass.

7. Let her know we won’t be friends

This option follows one of PuppyDogTails confrontations with his WW. Here is the script:
”I should be clear with you about something. I have absolutely no intention of remaining 'best friends' with you if you choose to end our marriage this way -- by having an affair, running away, and lying to your parents and our children about it. We'll be civil, and we'll co-parent effectively, I'm sure, but we won't be friends. If you decide to end your affair now, however, and come back and work on this with me, going to marriage counseling, each of us addressing our issues, and it doesn't work out -- say after a year -- and we choose to divorce, then yes, I could see a time where eventually we could become good friends again, even though it won't be the same. But not what you're doing now, I'm sorry. This is NOT how friends treat each other, and I respect myself too much to put up with a so-called 'friend' who would do that to me."

I share Puppy’s sentiments regarding how my WW chose to BD, lie, cheat, and separate without ever giving me a chance. If my sitch continues down this path, I have no problem delivering this message.

8. Send group text to APs

Tell the multiple OM to stay away from my W and stop destroying a young family or possibly better yet let them know about her lies with multiple partners and let them battle it out. Unlikely that I would take this step, but rather take the high road as opposed to these predators.

9. Expose the A’s to her family and friends

AllenA was a staunch supporter of exposing the A to everyone. Puppy is another that applied this approach.

Here are some excerpts from AllenA’s posts:

“Publicly expose her choosing an affair over her family and her home... make sure all her friends and family KNOW and that they also know you want to save your marriage. Educate them that you want to save your marriage and that you have invited your wife to work on the marriage and she is choosing to pursue her affair instead. SAY it like that. You putting all that pressure on her is what forces her to make a real tough choice...This is the best way to end this for you... Cut her OFF at the knees and see if she comes to her senses...Not all do, but its the best chance you have...Choosing
a. Marriage
b. infidelity.
These are the choices...”

“It’s also your job to protect your wife from the "grass is greener mentality" and momentary infatuations - these aren't MEN she's cheating with, they are PREDATORS.. they are exploiting her emotional vulnerability, it is your responsibility to protect her from THEM. Pursue no, PROTEST and EXPOSE -- YES. Educate your wife, get her into family therapy and teach her what marriage means in relation to an affair... and the dangers of infatuations and fantasy... she will just get used and hurt in the long run... my wife got used bigtime.”

I know that MWD is not an advocate of exposure:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2238652#Post2238652

AS and others currently posting regularly don’t seem to be either: “I think most LBS's are hoping it moves them from Plan B status to Plan A, but it never, ever does. It just creates a lot of resentment in the WAS, and usually the A will continue but go even deeper undercover (their attitude usually becomes "it's us against the world"). The thing is, she's separated and most WAS's don't consider it an "affair" after separation, to them they're just moving on to a new R. They think they're only "married" in the sense that some pesky piece of paper filed somewhere says so. I know you don't agree with that but that's her point of view right now.”

Highly unlikely that I would take this step as it doesn’t seem to leave the road home paved and smooth. I just view this approach as causing far too much damage that kills any will to return. Not going to spend many calories on this option.

Ok community, that’s all I have right now. Feel free to weigh in with your comments, feedback, recommendations, 2x4’s, etc. I do appreciate everyone taking the time to read my sitch and contribute. It has helped me immensely in taking positive steps emotionally and with my life in general since BD.


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Originally Posted by Tryhard
You want answers and all that is offered is GUIDANCE, if there was a sure fire way to do this we would say do these 7 steps and you will get your spouse back 100% .Life isn’t like that , everyone is different and everyone’s sitches are different and in different stages .

For me about 90% helped me immensely, I had to choose the bits that I was sure were not right .

For example Sandls 37 rules , 30 worked for me 7 didn’t. ) was actually less than 7 but I’m keeping it simple .

Work on being the man only a fool would leave. R2C has posted some EXCELLENT advice on this site go through it and use the ones that work for you , after you have got your set of sandis rules buttoned down solid .

Cool , calm , collected and CONFIDENT ( the no. 1 attractive quality for men )

You can do it


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Originally Posted by joejoe1
Everything you are saying is about her accepting you. But, be honest with yourself, do you accept her actions at the moment. You mentioned you don't know how you gain your respect, but you do, you are scared of how the encounters with your W will turn out. You know it will be a battle. Guess what, it always is. But it's not about the reaction of your W. When a person respect themselves, they don't care how people react when they make their decisions. For too long you have been making decisions based off of how your W will and won't react.

Now it's time to make the decisions that a best for you. That's how you gain respect.

I wrote this a while back

Can a person truly pay respect if they don't have any?

Respect cost, does a person with no respect for another truly love another. IMO, NO! Respect is not something that is just handed over freely, it's earned. It's action oriented. If a person is disrespected and the person who does the disrespecting is not confronted then respect is lost.

In order for a person to once again begin to love they must first begin to respect. In order for another person to respect another, that other person must respect themselves first. The longer the disrespect continues, the more the respect currency is lost.

But, in order to gain respect, it only takes one brave act, one act to show that disrespect won't be allowed. That act doesn't care what the reaction of the person doing the disrespecting is going to do. The only thing that matters is that the disrespecting stops. Once the disrespect is stopped, there are only two options, to respect or to distance ones self. But guess what, the distance option is a form of respect as well.

When faced with disrespect the right decision to be made, is first am I being used/disrespected. Why am I saying No or Yes. Am I saying "NO" to be mean or am I saying no because it's not conducive for me at the moment. Am I saying "Yes" because I think it will get my Spouse back or am I saying "Yes" because it's actually the right thing to do?

See, respect has nothing to do with being mean or nice. Has nothing to do with hurting another. It's all about a person, not crossing the clearly stated boundaries you have set. Repsect is one person acknowledging that they won't cross your LINE, because they understand you won't TOLERATE them if they do.

Most LBS allow line crossing/disrespect because we don't want our WW/WS to leave us, but the irony/rub is the more/longer they line cross the further away they go. If you want them to ever come back and STAY, STAY is the key word, Respect must be there. The more respect they have the less likely they are going to leave.

So the first steps in winning a Spouse back, is stopoing all the actions that show lack of respect and love for oneself (begging, crying, pursuing). Next start loving and respecting yourself. Next GAL, 180s, and detaching (not to escape, but too heal). Lastly allow no other to disrespect you and for all those that do, show them with action what doing so entails.

The purpose of DB or hope for a WW isn’t ruining their life, it’s leaving them alone and letting them see you grow and become stronger. It's Karma job to teach lessons, it's a LBS job to heal themselves.

Joejoe

Onward and upward


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Originally Posted by sandi2
I can understand how you would be eager to approach your MR with a better sense of the man you should have been all along. Sadly, your W feels the results of your nice guy syndrome. After ten years, she has a lot of anger. I'm not sure if you really understand what it does to a woman who does not have her emotional needs met by her H, but it usually turns her into an unattractive person........unless she happens to be exceptional. Even if there are no personality disorder or some other mental issue, just being a W with a somewhat strong personality can cause a bad dynamic when she has a H with NGS.

She has a lot of anger b/c she feels you neglected her emotional intimacy needs.
Now, maybe some guys automatically assume when the word "intimate" is used it means "sexually", but that's not always the case. Being the complex creature that she is, it has more to do with how you make love to her by communicating how she is valued, special, feminine, sexy, smart, beautiful, loved, etc. It is, also, you communicating how she makes you feel like a confident man, fulfills you sexually, inspires you, etc. These are expressions that make women feel great, and I would think it makes the man feel pretty good, as well. This is another way of making love, and I think every spouse has certain emotional needs they want their mate to fill. A lot of men simply don't know how to express these things, or don't understand how important it is to a woman for her H to communicate these messages in a loving, intimate manner. Maybe she never told you what she needed. Whatever her emotional needs were, she felt they were neglected for a long time, so now........she's fed up and feels done. Let me add something else. It's natural for a wife to look to her H to fill these needs, just as it is for him to want her to fill his EN. The trick is to learn what she needs. If she won't tell you, then you have to try different things, and watch her response.

It's unfortunate that the two of you are currently in different emotional time zones. Just as you feel "reborn", she feels like she's dead. You want to show her affection, but she is not in the same time zone. The harder you try to show her how much you love her and want to make up for lost time.......the more you'll push her away. So, you will have to deal with things in different approach than you might have originally thought.



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Originally Posted by luckeee
I don't think people are saying "don't care" because clearly you are not at that point. They are saying "fake it til you make it" then it will start to get easier. The point is not to dislike, not care about, or kill any feelings you have for your wife. The point is to back off and detach so you can get some perspective on what you want in your life moving forward and demonstrate that you are not always going to be waiting in the wings as a "Plan B"


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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Maybe this will help. There is no one on earth, not even your W or S ( well children are debatable) that is more important than yourself, your well-being, your security, your happiness, your future, and your confidence. No one..... I've realized it after reading so many stitches here, all these issues within all these marriages come down to self-respect healthy boundaries wants and needs communication validation compassion self integrity core principles and values.


This is going to sound counter intuitive but I want you to try being so miserable to the point where it's pathetic to where you no longer want to choose misery anymore and choose happiness. Choose it first and foremost for yourself in every moment and everything that you do and then go and pursue your GAL activities with people that you care about and care for you.


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Originally Posted by Rose888
One of the msot helpful things I learned in therapy is that human brains love stories and they hate to be bored. So my brain (and it sounds like yours too) will make up stories and then we get all worked up over something that hasn't happened yet and might not ever happen. Our brains don't care if the stories make us unhappy, they are just glad to be entertained.

I learned to get a lot better at stopping my brain when it went off on one of these stories of things that hadn't happened yet but might happen. It helped me a lot.

This is one of the reasons GAL--especially if you are doing new things--is so helpful. It gives your brain some entertainment that doesn't involve raking you over emotional coals.

Don't worry about board statistics. In your situation, you don't know your wife is having an affair yet. If she is, you will eventually know for sure, but until that happens, don't go borrowing trouble you don't have yet.

Focus on GAL, becoming emotionally healthy, being a great parent.


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Originally Posted by Gekko
One of my go-to quotes right after BD was from the end of the movie Castaway when Tom Hanks said

"And I know what I have to do now. I gotta keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"

No one can know the specific details of their future, but you can know that no matter what, life will be beautiful if you make it so. Incredible things are on the horizon, though maybe you can't see them at the moment.

Just thinking about this now as I am reading through a lot of sitches here where people are understandably really struggling with mindset. PMA and GAL are so critical. And understanding that no, You Will Not Die. To the contrary, you will have a fantastic life, if you want one and make one for yourself.



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Originally Posted by Gekko
Still trying to get a handle on my 180 to be less frosty to the W. I was just reading back through my threads - I think this is a good exercise - and pulled this timely nugget from AnotherStander:

It's never too late to do a 180. Whether you do a 180 the day after BD or 10 months after doesn't really matter because brother, you already got BD'd. So ANY 180 is an improvement, right?

I can and will get to where I need to be on this issue. Every interaction is a new opportunity to get it right. The only thing stopping me is me.


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Originally Posted by TBSakaJ9
Women love men that call them out on their [censored]. The good women will make it easy on you, the will help you be the MAN. The crappy ones will test and test and test, never giving an inch, they will make it very hard for you, constantly challenge your boundaries, the decisions you make, etc.

Really anything you do now is going to be considered pursuit.

IMO you have to work on building her attraction levels, getting her respect, and getting her to a place to where she can't resist you. Get her in a position of chasing you vs you chasing her.

In general though you should always be gauging and taking inventory of your W's or GF's attraction levels. Taking inventory of her complaints and how she is acting towards you. It never ends and when you put it on cruise control is when crap like this usually happens. It happens because you deviated from what caused her to be attracted to you in the first place.


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Originally Posted by LH19
No more whiny posts from you about your spouse. Start posting your GAL activities, goals, plans for the future, how you're improving your relationships with your children.


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Originally Posted by unchien
My thoughts on communications:

- Assume any and all comms are being documented. Especially anything in writing (text, e-mail, letters). Calls may be recorded for quality assurance purposes =)
- Assume anything you say will be twisted and distorted. Do not get upset or triggered by this. You have no control over it.
- Text message is the single worst form of communication. Any type of communication that requires a back-and-forth exchange should be done over e-mail or voice.

I also think it is wise to keep a journal. Facts only. Dates, times, events, what was said, what was done. Unfortunately I am guilty of dropping the ball on this myself the last few weeks. I need to get back on it.

When I feel like communicating something to my wife via text or e-mail:

- STOP. Don't take the bait. Don't let the trigger start a chain reaction.
- Understand that I tend to be overly wordy, give explanations, justify, defend, etc.
- Think about what the vets at DB forums would say.
- Think about what is true to my own values.
- Breathe.
- Calm down.
- Wait an arbitrary amount of time.
- NOW... craft a response.
- Take that response, and cut out 90% of the words. Remove anything that involves reasoning, logic, explaining, etc.
- Re-read response, loop back to step #2 above. Repeat loop 3 times.
- Add a simple "Hi W" to make it sound more friendly.
- Hit SEND.

Our MC had some good points about why text communication is so awful:

- On the screen it looks like a back-and-forth conversation. In reality, often both parties are typing furiously responding to something said 3 texts prior.
- No ability to read facial expressions or gestures.
- No ability to hear inflection of voice or tone.
- Mind-reading takes over.
- There tends to be no conversation, it often becomes 2 parties spouting their POV into an empty void and the other party not listening.

Think about listening and validating... it works because you maintain eye contact, have a calm demeanor, etc. None of those things are possible over text. So easy to assume the worst about the other person.



I always end the email with

Quote

Regards,

R2C


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Originally Posted by LB55
I'm not pushing a D right now, even though I've wanted to do so repeatedly the past 3 months. I realized the only reason i wanted to push it was to try and get a reaction from her to wake her up. I'm not ready to just go push it through because i still believe we can have MR2.0. She has literally done nothing to move forward with D. I struggle with the concept of just pushing it through, probably because it isn't what I want. One thing that has hit me recently with the saying "believe nothing they say" can be applied to things in a positive way for my mindset to get through this too.

Example: She says "there is no future for us, I never loved you, and we are best just parting ways forever" I'm just putting it in the file of 'believe nothing she says' because i don't believe that stuff just as I would if she told me I'm worthless and a failure at everything I've every tried. I don't really believe anything she says anyway, but I was choosing to believe things she did say that benefited my situation and then she would yank the rug out from under me.


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Originally Posted by firemann
What's the detachment key to stop worry about what (or who) she might be doin' this weekend away???
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
For me the key to finally being free of all the worry was to assume the worst. She's probably having an A, the signs point to it, so you can either expend a ton of energy and mental health trying to figure it out if it's happening and where and how often and with who, or you can assume the worst and decide for yourself what that means to you. My XW had an OM and I didn't know (and in fact to this day still don't know) how far it went, but once I started assuming the worst then I quit worrying about it and got about the business of detaching and letting go. It worked really well for me. Because when it comes down to it, they ALL engage in some type of affair even if it's imaginary. ALL affairs mean the same thing- they are DONE. And that's the message the LBS has to learn and understand before they can finally let go. And paradoxically, before their M has a chance to turn around.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
What you should be doing is enjoying this beautiful weather we have in town right now. GAL GAL GAL!!!! When I didn't know what else to do I'd go to Main St in St Charles and run and run and run and look at the pretty river and pretty girls and read a book and get good food and just soak up life.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior
A conversation I had backpacking with my partner.

Me, stops to enjoy the sound of a waterfall.
Her, wants to continue
Her: You always choose the pace. I feel like you're controlling us, you're holding the trip hostage.
Me: You're free to go ahead. I'll catch up. I control me. You control you.
Her: But I want to hike with you.
Me: I gotta do me. You gotta do you.

This simultaneously asserted my control over me while making no attempts to control her.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander

As far as "keeping the way home paved and smooth", that doesn't mean to be her bestie. It doesn't mean be out there paving and repaving and paving again every day, what it means is you don't set up any roadblocks and you don't dig any potholes. See the difference? You're not actively trying to pursue or pull her back in, but you're also not doing anything to sabotage a future recon. Don't be mean, don't pick fights, don't be catty, don't talk to her friends and relatives about how "crazy" she is. Just live your life and let her live hers. Most recons I've seen come after a long, quiet period of little to no interaction.


Originally Posted by crdcheck
The message is coming in loud and clear, better that she feel the loss rather than enjoy the benefits without investing.


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Originally Posted by Yorkie
I looked for remorse and a sign from my husband that he was strong and prepared to roll up his sleeves and fight for the marriage. Helping me divorce / separate would not have done that. Instead he ran away and looked oh so weak. His continued weakness in the face of adversity was what ended our marriage.


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Originally Posted by unchien
I'm going to press you a little harder on something, and I hope you don't take it as some sort of a judgmental attitude, because it's not. Your W is giving you a gift - she may never trust you or accept you back. This is the time in your life to pull yourself together and address all of your baggage. I'm not saying take her at her word for all your flaws, but also don't dismiss everything as "just an issue with the porn."

There are two levels to addressing your issues. One way is the surface way. Stop with the porn. Go to IC. OK. You are doing this. You could move on with your life.

The second way is deeper. Can you connect this to underlying issues, maybe from your childhood? Can you really feel it deep down and understand how you absolutely have to change, not for your W, but for your own happiness. Can you get to a point where you can have 2 coexisting and conflicting thoughts in your head:

1. My W may have overblown her accusations.
2. I have issues which drove my behavior, and if I don't address them at their core, I will be leaving happiness on the table.

When you make deep and lasting change, it becomes evident to other people. It may become evident to your W. Through consistent actions and integrity, you will have opportunities to earn back her trust. There is no guarantee this will happen. But it will be 10000 times more effective than a letter.

This stuff is a mess. You have to balance a lot of questions. You want to take your W's input seriously, and not minimize it, but also stand firmly with your core values. This is not easy.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
WAS's often feel like their LBS has been controlling and manipulative. Telling her to move out is a huge controlling move, so it just bolsters her case that you are controlling. Giving her time and space means letting HER make ALL the decisions about her life. You have to SHOW her that you are not caging her in and trying to control everything.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Definitely make it her choice. You could say something like "I've thought about this and looking back I feel like I coerced you into moving out rather than letting you decide if it was what you wanted. I just wanted you to know that if you decide you want to move back in at some point then I am open to discussing that when the time comes." In other words, don't just roll out the red carpet, but let her know you're open to it and that it's her decision one way or the other.


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Originally Posted by hoosjim
Also remember, the truest and most helpful words I have ever seen on here are these:

"You will never look more attractive to her than when you are walking away"


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Originally Posted by crdcheck
I've moved to being cordial and pleasant but I'm not communicating anything more than logistics...

At a higher level, I'm not proactively informing her of D3's activities (e.g. if she wants to know that D3 had a bath last night she can ask me, I'm not telling her). I do inform her when I will be taking D3 out of town but it's this: "FYI, I'm taking D3 to [hometown] this weekend, she'll be there Fri-Mon". I'm not even acknowledging TMs from her that I don't need to (FYIs, etc.).

All that to say that you should make this as easy on yourself as possible - if in doubt, don't communicate it out. Unless it's something your W needs to know for logistics then don't send it. Keep all messages brief. Don't tack on any personal stuff. Don't even put in small talk ("House is locked up. Crazy weather, huh?"). If you want to communicate with someone, do it with other friends, coworkers, or at your new hobby (you're getting those, right?).


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Originally Posted by Steve85
I think it is important that you make sure they understand two things:

1. That you are willing to walk away and end things. As quoted earlier in my thread (s), "they will never find you more attractive than when you're walking away". So true.

2. That they understand that you do love them, that you'd prefer to stay with them, but not unless there are changes and work done in their end.


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R2c just wanted to thank you for the time and effort in collating this thread. It’s been invaluable for me.


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I really want her to know I still don't want this. Is there anything I can say or do? I know everyone always says don’t talk about the relationship but I want her to know I still don’t want this!!! Even if she knows I don’t want it I feel she needs to still hear it from me

Originally Posted by IHCLACS
She knows. She doesn't care. LISTEN TO ME. SHE DOESN'T CARE SHE DOESN'T CARE. SHE DOESN'T CARE!!! THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO OR SAY TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS. She wouldn't have given all of her actions and all of this thought and planning to go through with this if she wasn't emotionally prepared to. She thinks the grass is greener. She might be wrong or right. Only time will tell. Let her live with her choices if she no longer values you. Your self respect and dignity comes first in your life. Before your XW, before your family, before your children, all of it.

LET HER GO! DISMISS HER. FOCUS IN YOUR OWN PRIORITIES, TAKE YOUR POWER BACK!


I'm starting to realize this whole thing from dating to marriage it's all an attraction game and people always want someone that's more valuable then themselves or so they're perceived to be. There will be a mix of delusion and reality in their minds from both sides. But your self worth come first before anybody's.

You two are either working for each other or not at all, there really is no halfway, and when someone has one or both feet out the door you let them go.


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Originally Posted by DS9
R2c just wanted to thank you for the time and effort in collating this thread. It’s been invaluable for me.

My pleasure. So many wise people giving great advise.


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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I really want her to know I still don't want this. Is there anything I can say or do? I know everyone always says don’t talk about the relationship but I want her to know I still don’t want this!!! Even if she knows I don’t want it I feel she needs to still hear it from me.


Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Here's the problem. She's done for now, so if you say anything she's just going to BD you all over again. But her feelings may change in a week or a month or a year, so you'll ALWAYS wonder if you should say something AGAIN, just in case her feelings have changed. But you don't need to say something, because if and when her feelings do change, SHE will seek YOU out. She's not going to change her mind and then sit at home saying "I wish wolf would ask again, because now I'm ready to reconcile." No, if she wants it she will make it quite clear to you.

At the end of the day you're probably going to say something anyway, because you can't stand not to. But you've got to have zero expectations, because it's not going to change anything. Paradoxically if you had zero expectations then you wouldn't need to ask. So don't ask, but if you ask have zero expectations, but if you have zero expectations then you won't need to ask.




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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I want you to accept a large truth in life- you don't know what she's thinking. Don't pretend you do, don't think you do, don't act like you do. If you want to know what someone is thinking then ASK THEM. That's what listening and validating is all about. Don't ever make assumptions, because I promise, you'll be wrong every time. ESPECIALLY if it's a woman you're making assumptions about.


And if you do ask while DBing, make sure you can emotionally handle what they tell you. Do not argue. You listen to understand.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I want you to accept a large truth in life- you don't know what she's thinking. Don't pretend you do, don't think you do, don't act like you do. If you want to know what someone is thinking then ASK THEM. That's what listening and validating is all about. Don't ever make assumptions, because I promise, you'll be wrong every time. ESPECIALLY if it's a woman you're making assumptions about.


And if you do ask while DBing, make sure you can emotionally handle what they tell you. Do not argue. You listen to understand.

^^^^ That is great advice. Despite everyone from there own experiences giving advice here, its just too bad that a lot of us here have to go through great losses, sometimes incremental tortue, day by day it feels like something else we had with this person we shared a life with gets taken away. Love, conversation, communication, homes, families, belongings, trust, honor, empathy, etc. It takes all this great loss to really learn how to listen, how to validate neutrally as if your own emotions were not at stake or involved. Kind of like if you were a good bartender or a friend. But once you get to that place, at least in my experience, once you are somewhat detached, you pull the pin on the F@$! IT grenade, and start living for you, start taking stock in yourself, start realizing your worth, your self respect yourself, and start rebuilding and focusing on yourself. You stop caring so much about your partner and your marriage, and realize you are going to be ok, Your life has a new chapter to write. That you can be happy for yourself again. Because you got yourself back. A new chance and a new opportunity to right the wrongs for yourself in your life, with new choices ahead.

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Originally Posted by unchien
DS -

I'm in NGS recovery myself.

I have a pretty simple mindset about it all. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours. I own my emotional stuff, you own yours.

Once you start to take control of your happiness, you may get some backlash. You must resist the temptation to cave in to the backlash. This is not "going out and being an alpha male and doing whatever the heck you want". This is owning your own happiness, just like every human being has the right to do. It helps to also have faith that this will not just help you, but it will make all your relationships healthier, including the one with your partner (even if you end up splitting).

What makes you happy? If you don't know, start with little things. Experiment. It can be really really small. I started buying cage-free eggs. It took literally zero effort or time. But the difference in taste when I have eggs in the morning is priceless. It makes me incrementally happier. It sounds stupid... I would have never started doing this until I went through my situation.

I can't remember if I saw this here on DB forums or elsewhere, but I am a math nerd:

1.00^365 = 1.00
1.01^365 = 37.78

Little changes, over time, add up
.


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Originally Posted by Gekko
I am in my 11th month post-BD and feeling really good. I continue to have zero thoughts of reconciliation. I can do much better than her. I won't ever give my precious limited time on this planet to someone who does not treat me well. I stuck with her for years and ground it out because we had kids together. She probably would say the same LOL. But what she might say doesn't matter to me at this point. I know my flaws, I know what I could have done better in responding to her shyt, I've done the work to figure that out and am still doing work on me. I'll never stop doing work on me, never again, that's my promise to myself and my kids and the eventual new lover in my life.

Even if I would have made every perfect move with my W I don't know that things would have worked out. I don't know that I could have stopped that nasty, snide, critical spew from her. She's always, according to her family, had that part of her personality. Whatever flaws I have, whatever mistakes I made, didn't create her issues. They pre-existed in her before she even knew I was alive.

So I am feeling great. I have been hitting the gym hard, which is a key element to my mindset. I've buffed up my wardrobe. Eating very healthy every day, drinking lots of water, very little sugar. Trying to get at least 7 hours of sleep. Digging back in at work, which was the one thing I was letting slip. Keeping my haircut short, getting to the Dr. and Dentist, staying on top of my health. Spending quality time with friends and getting out and about. Finances are in very good shape despite the pending D. And connecting deeper with my kids. Life is pretty awesome right now.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior
One policy I made early in my divorce (but didn’t announce), worth considering, is I talked to my ex about her concerns during her custody time. I didn’t want to feel “down” or upset or be distracted during my time. It definitely cut down on the time spent discussing her complaints and she was in a better mood those days, maybe also had time to cool down.



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Originally Posted by Phoenix9
The tears stemming from our failure of our M have not been observed for the better part of 4 months now. The horrible pain I was going through all of last year and the first part of this year have now dulled to an ache that flares up every now and then. My heart hurts during the flare up, but I close my eyes and tell myself that the journey that came of it is one of the best things to have happened to me. As awful as the experience was, I truly could not and would not be the man I am working on becoming had this sitch not occurred. I am still working on my NGS. Right now, I am working on getting the balls to turn my photography into a paying side gig. I won't go into details, but the NMMNG book tells me that the excuses I am making for the effort of my photography gig is classic nice guy behavior....

Speaking of sex
, the stuff I learned from here and the NMMNG book taught me to be more communicative and confident of what I want. I told her about the things I want to try with her upfront instead of trying to win "brownie points" in the hopes I can smooth my way into performing certain sexual acts..... the book She Comes First has been a great resource. Applying the guidelines from that book has allowed me to embrace and enjoy the moment with her. Sex feels genuine and nothing feels forced, even if it feels like our session feels fast (sometimes 5 minutes but we both end up satisfied).


I am genuinely, truly happy everyone. I would not be this person today had it not been for your love and support.



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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
You're applying way too much pressure to her. All the R talks have got to cease immediately. Quit trying to hug her and grill her and talk to her and snoop on her. Stop all of it! What should you do instead? NOTHING. Pull back. Leave her alone. Give her time and space. Find solitude and ask yourself what you want from a spouse, then look at what you've had for the last X years. No sex for 3 years? Brother if there's no medical reason for that I would have helped her pack and held the door open for her a LONG time ago. Why are you putting up with this misery? DON'T! Detach and leave her to her mess. You are worth more than this. If you effectively detach and find yourself then she may very well realize what she's losing and have a change of heart, but as long as you remain desperate and needy she is going to want nothing to do with you. Have you read DR yet? Read it, read Cadet's links, read other sitches here. Ask questions. But most of all leave your W alone for now.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior

Listening with empathy isn't easy. I often try to paraphrase (use different words) which makes me focus more on her message and tests that I really understood what I thought she was saying.

Bad active listening:
Wife: "I hate it when you do things like that."
Husband: "You hate it when I do things like that."

Good active listening:
Wife: "I hate it when you do things like that."
Husband: "It really frustrates you when I don't put the toilet seat down?"

In the above scenario:
Her: "You aren't learning to communicate because all I'm doing is repeating back what I say!"
Him: "You don't feel like I'm hearing you, because I parroted what you said."
Her: "Yes!! Could you stop that?"
Him: "I'll try!"


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Originally Posted by crdcheck
DBX, I was in a similar sitch. W was staying in another room of the house, absolutely certain she was going to divorce me, but was happy to make dinner for the two of us, watch TV together, I cleaned up. No arguments, no anger. Maybe not as many conversations as you. Two questions I had to answer were: 1) is she being my lover and partner, or is she being a friend? 2) what do I want?

For me, this was absolute friendzone, maybe a bit of her using me, too (we also maintained the illusion of family for our daughter, giving W more time and more control over the relationship). As to the second question, I want a wife, not a friend. So, I stopped being her friend. It's been a challenge to balance because I naturally like people and want to be around them. I had to force myself to limit myself to being cordial, not sharing too much. What I'll tell you specifically is that you need to GAL and do 180s. Go ahead and make dinner, but bring it to a friend's house. Or make it for yourself, not her. Eat early, eat late, whatever, but you aren't her cook. Maybe have people over. Whatever it is, do what you enjoy, and do new things.

Final thought: if you keep doing what you've always done, you can't expect a different result. Whatever narrative your W has for you, you are confirming it every time you do what you've done before. I can't tell you what the right answer is but I can tell you the wrong one: doing what you've done before.


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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
"Picking up extra shifts" at work when commonly wasn't done before definitely stands out as a red flag and potential OM to me. May not be the actual case, but is definitely a red flag. Watch their actions and not their words. New racy underwear clothing makeup products gym memberships, GGW. Any kind of unusual behavior changes. Again on this may not mean anything and I don't intend to drive you crazy, but keep an eye out for things that don't add up by their actions and behaviors. another thing and they're probably not going to get this cuz they want their way, and most likely want to have it both ways and cake eat. Do not offer up anything for free unless the favor and the expectation is understood and returned. Your time is valuable you are valuable and so is your self-respect. Some people have a hard time understanding this and may see you as being difficult or punitive, but don't let them use you for money Savers can exchanges or as Plan B backup. If things don't add up subtract yourself from the situation.


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Originally Posted by Yail
I just want to offer some support. You seem to recognize in your writing that this is not about you. Can I reiterate that for you? This is NOT ABOUT YOU. Just in case you are wavering at all.

When a S leaves like this and especially in this way they are trying to vilify you to make it "okay" in their mind what they are doing. That's why he is acting so horrid. You can't leave a lovely spouse in a peaceful fashion, right? There has to be a reason. So he is digging deep to find any tiny thing wrong with you to announce that to the world so he isn't wrong for what he is doing.

I say this so you don't internalize his hatred. That is the last thing I want to happen to you. Also it seems he is trying to gaslight you and I am SO impressed you're having none of it. Stay strong.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Quit overthinking things. You need to toughen up. That was the point of my Mencken quote from the other day. You need to get an edge to you. I'm not saying to be disrespectful, but women are attracted to men with an edge.

You can show leadership in a way other than facilitating a divorce you don't want. I would let her pick the agent and stay out of it. It's not hard and she's a big girl. If she wants to be single she can figure it the hell out. Just tell her that she can handle the home sale and leave it at that. If she presses further you say "I thought this is what you wanted". And then say no more. End of conversation, you have somewhere to be and something to do.


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Originally Posted by Gekko
As part of my self-improvement process, I have been focusing on validating. On everyone - my kids, friends, family, and the girl that cuts my hair LOL. It's so great. I am also consciously focusing on asking more questions and talking a little bit less. These "little things" are actually not so little because they yield big results that I can feel as the interaction is happening. I have always been very social and feel like I have had a pretty good skill set there, but these tweaks are really making a difference, a noticeable improvement. There is always always always room for improvement....I am back into YouTube pretty heavily, on my iPhone with the headphones, in the gym, in the car to/from work, while I am alone in the house doing tasks, etc. All self-improvement related. The great stuff, I will listen to over and over, the repetition helps it sink in. I am re-visiting vids from many months ago for refreshers. I am quick to identify the junk and move on, and by now I have a good list of who knows their stuff and I focus on them. Not just relationship stuff, but core self-improvement as well, along with health, grooming, fashion, you name it. Even though there is a lot of content that I already know and apply, it's still good to hear it anyway. It's good to reinforce what you are doing right and identify weak spots that need shoring up.


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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Here is a wise saying I heard yesterday that maybe will help with your mindset.

"When someone shows you their true colors the first time...BELIEVE THEM!"




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Originally Posted by scout12
It doesn't matter anymore what caused your spouse to leave. Spending time thinking about that will just continue dragging you down. Don't blame yourself or think that he hates you so much he'd do anything to get away. It's not really about you. Something is broken within him and HE isn't the partner YOU deserve anymore. What happened during your marriage is in the past. It can't be changed and it doesn't matter! He was willing to throw away your marriage rather than honor the vows he took - in sickness and in health, right? Is that someone you can respect and love? You've taken steps to address the issues that landed you here. That's fantastic. Keep doing that. The only thing you can control is what happens next.


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Originally Posted by ozman
You said “I want to first try to figure out a game plan to get her back and then 2nd find what makes me happy”

You have got those backward my friend. There is no “plan” that will work to get her back

The “let her go to get her back” is the only thing that has a chance of truly working. But you can’t fake it. If you do, she will know and it won’t work.

It has to be genuine let her go. A wise person on here once said “your never more attractive than when your walking away”. But here’s the catch. You can’t walk away, and then turn and look over your shoulder. She HAS to feel herself loosing you. Genuinely loosing you. And you have to be totally ok with that. Then and only then will you have a shot

Focus on yourself. What would put a smile on your face right now that has nothing to do with her. Go do that.

Focus on your kids.


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Originally Posted by LH19
Time and space will give her the opportunity to see if you are the reason she is unhappy and to see if she misses you. It will also give you the opportunity to see that life goes on and your happiness and identity isn't tied to the marriage. As time goes by and her resentment fades and your idealization of the marriage you thought you had dissipates there may come a time where you both decide that maybe the life you had was good .Maybe it can be even better with the two of you working towards a new relationship. Only time will tell.

The bottom line is you want to be with someone who chooses, respects and wants to be with you.


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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Keep remembering this. Hammer it into your heads. Happiness is a choice. Just like love marriage and commitment is a choice. The feelings are the fruits or the results of that choice. It comes from within. It doesn't come from external gratification or novelty.


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Originally Posted by SoTorn
Your WW isn't going to change in any short period of time. You shouldn't expect that there is any chance of R until you have seen consistent actions from WW over a very long period of time. These back and forths mean nothing. She could tell you today that she wants you and only you and make all the promises in the world. It means nothing. Talk is cheap. Don't feed the beast by jumping at every crumb they toss out.


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander


I think it is VERY common for LBS's who were BD'd less than a year ago to say they are ready for D, when in fact they are REALLY hoping it'll be a wake up call that will "snap her out of it". It's a horrible idea! Because right now, D is likely what she wants. So if you suggest it to her, you will find a very willing participant. And that will be a huge gut-punch to you. Then what do you do, because you don't want D, but she does, and you told her you were going to pursue it. It's a lose-lose situation for you.



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Originally Posted by Steve85


Brace yourself for the inevitable: there is someone else. I know you will deny this, we all go through the denial stage. But all of the markers are there. I am guessing it is someone he works with. I am not saying this to hurt you (though it probably does) but because you have to face the reality of the situation.

My advice? Go whole hog on DBing.

"I responded that I had been hopeful he wouldn't actually go through with this, but now that he was taking action, I needed some time to wrap my head around it. I would be willing to get together to catch up, but I wouldn't be signing anything without my own attorney present."

This response was almost good, but you should have left out: " I would be willing to get together to catch up" That is not LRT. That is more desperate, needy, non-DBing behavior. You should be pulling the plug on all social activities with him. Yes I know this is scary. Most of us that get told this start asking "but then how will I know if he wants to get back together". Trust me on this......IF HE EVER WANTS TO GET BACK TOGETHER, YOU WILL KNOW. It will be unambiguous.

We have a saying around here: When they want to get back together you will know, if they don't you will be confused.

So how are you feeling right now? Confused, right?

Let him go to get him back. Tell him you are not comfortable getting together to sign anything. Tell him to send you the paperwork so you can have your lawyer look it over. Then just stop communicating about it. If he continues to text you about it, just restate that he is to send it to you so that you can have your attorney look it over. He will get angry. He will get mad. He wants to fast track things, take the easy way out. Your job isn't to stop the D, but A) to protect yourself and B) to slow things down so he can have some time to consider what he is actually doing. Do not actively block the D, but don't do anything that helps it along. For instance, if he says "I need to X document from our files, can you find it and send it/bring it?" Your response: "I am sorry, I am very busy at the moment, you are welcome to let yourself in and find whatever you need."

In the meantime........GAL like a madwoman. Do not sit home and stew and worry. Get out and stay active physically and mentally. Join a gym. Find ladies groups. Start going to church (my favorite!). Also, get into IC for yourself. This combines GAL with 180s. We all can improve ourselves, use this time as a chance to make self-improvements.

And finally study and learn what detachment is and start detaching. Detaching in a nutshell is not reacting emotionally to what he says and does. He could come to you and tell you "I have been engaging in threesomes with 2 women at the office" and your response would be a nonplussed "oh....ok." No more crying, begging, pleading.

A certain bald-headed Texas TV psychologist likes to ask women like you "why are you sitting around waiting for this old boy?" So start deciding what you want, and start going out and getting it. (Note: saying you want HIM is not allowed, it has to be things like fulfillment, happiness, etc. IE things he can't provide for you and that you shouldn't be looking to others to provide anyway!)

Finally, realize that you can only control you. Not him. Drop the rope. Detach. Move forward with or without him.


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Originally Posted by sandi2


IMHO, once the WW has dropped the bomb or the betrayed spouse discovers there is a third party……there should be an immediate shift that makes a statement about the betrayed spouse. He is not going to be soft, tender, accommodating, available, chatty, or BFF's with the wayward spouse who has disrespected him. I suggest there that there is a noticeable crack/break in their MR. That means the betrayed spouse will not pretend that everything is honky-dory in their MR, and play happy family with the wayward spouse. I’m going to stop telling LBH’s to be polite, b/c somehow they manage to turn into chatty bagpipes that can’t find the function key to close his mouth. smirk Just be civil. Don’t be a jerk………just be civil following the period after the BD. Most men want to start showing his changes and dancing to the tune of “please pick me”, and jumping through hoops of fire if it will persuade his WW to stay with him. No, this is not effective with a wayward.

I get how the LBS wants to go into marriage repair mode and “win” back the spouse who no longer loves or even feels attracted to them....but it doesn’t work. Even if the LBS does a 180 on all their old bad habits and becomes a terrific version of their former self…….it doesn’t win back the wayward wife. I’m not against improving yourself, but the WW is not interested as long as she is in a state of limerance. It is not the time to try to impress her with improvements as her H, b/c there has been a firing and another man is filling that position (at least, emotionally). If the LBH will give the WW serious personal space, emotionally and physically, and take the time to develop bigger b@lls (him, not his WW), and lets her face some consequences that come from her bad decisions/choices………..then he’ll have an opportunity to show her what a great catch she put on the open market for all the single females out there. I can talk more about this later.

Well, some people may read today's post and think I am trying to get you divorced. I promise that's not the case.





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Originally Posted by Ginger1
I like a guy to say he just wants to be with me. Spend time with me, cuddle with me, whatever. It’s nice to know you are wanted.

What isn’t good is being jealous, or nasty and cranky when you are turned down for those things and you don’t get your way.

However, this usually works much better when you are in a good place. She will be receptive to it if she is comfortable with you and wanting to spend time with you. If she isn't feeling you, she won’t be receptive.


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Originally Posted by Caligirl
I take advice and apply it . If it works .....I do more of it . Balancing between not coming off cold or as you may think being a jerk or not caring is tough . Trial and error . ....something someone said to me on here just stuck with me "It will never get better if I do the same" .


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Originally Posted by IronWill
I see my W trying. It's like she is fighting alarm bells going off in her head. She told me that during BD - she felt like there were three people inside her head all screaming to be heard at once

That's when I knew this was definitely not about me. That's when I cranked up the empathy studies.




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Originally Posted by BluWave
I have heard it all from the other side now. I get it. Listen to the vets here. Everything they are saying is for a reason! Those times he saw me moving on, and focusing on myself, and when I didn't attack him and became more approachable, he seconded guessed himself 100 fold. But only when it was genuine, not when I was trying to trap him.

I am not sure why I decided to make an acct and post after all these years, and this is somewhat impulsive. But if you have a spouse thick in an A or fog, I just might be able to give you some additional insight. Because what they are saying and doing is often 90% based on fear and emotions. There is little rational going on in their heads. Or there wasn't in the case of my H; a lot of fear, anger, and self-doubt.


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Originally Posted by Many worries


Just tread lightly. Many people told me piecing is very different from BDing. Very. Depending upon your w, being clear honest and open is helpful. No doubt she knows of you need for affection (sex or otherwise) I think you struggle with "I shouldn't have to ask" thinking that we all get from time to time. (I had that same line of thought too many times).

But I look at it like I have no problem expressing my other needs to my wife. None. do you? Do you wait until she's hungry to ask about dinner? Do you sit in a cold house waiting for her to change the temp or close a window? if the TV was too loud would you just keep it that way without asking her about it? Do you go to bed when she's tired?

But like I said it takes a heck of a long time. I felt "stuck" for a couple of years. Honestly, I think some couples probably never get unstuck and decide to stay together for other reasons.




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Originally Posted by 44tries2
It is important to be able to identify the real areas needing positive growth, because we all have them and have not been perfect. But I warn you and encourage you, don't approach it from your W's narrative and start going down the road of believing everything she claims about you. I know how easy it is. Work on knowing and trusting yourself and identifying your true areas needing work, from the place where you know your truth and your W has not infected it.


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Originally Posted by Zip
Found myself reading the DB and DR books and now want to re read them again. Great stuff! But with that said, I am finding myself second guessing my work as well as being very confused as to what I want. I am learning and growing in areas I should have been working on for years. Although there are many areas I found myself strong in, I am angry that I continued to lack in areas which, if I knew then what I know now would have potentially been a game changer for the M. Now I find myself getting angry at myself.....Realizing slowly it’s about ME, and not her at this point.


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Originally Posted by sandi2
It begins with unresolved resentment that she's tried to push down and go on with her life, but it's still there in her heart. She may carry this unresolved resentment for years, and the H may have no idea. Since her sexual desire is tied to her level of respect for her H, sexual intimacy flies out the window pretty fast. Many couples have a SSM for years, and the H thinks she simply has a low drive.........no, she doesn't respect him, and that's the problem in the bedroom. Eventually, the loss of respect and unresolved resentment will breed and other negative attitudes are born. Selfishness becomes a big proponent, suggesting she deserves better, or this is her time to do what she wants, etc. The little signs of disrespect come more to the surface in forms of rebellion. Eventually the little signs grow into all out rebellion. She rebels against her H, the marriage.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
The vets that post here have been here a longtime, have seen just about everything, and have even been through it themselves. If you let go of your preconceived notions, and try to have an attitude of openness, even if you don't agree with it initially, you will find that this place has a lot of value.

Being confused at this stage is NORMAL. But don't let your confusion ignore good advice, or cause you to shutdown to advice that goes counter to your feelings.

As cadet said, DBing is largely counter-intuitive, but that is what makes it work.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Beyond not lasting, if you silently change for someone else, there's a higher chance of resentment. You run the danger of a covert contract, something NMMNG advocates frequently warn about. If your marriage is failing because you rarely listen and don't keep the house up to their standards--fix the listening. Pick the change that would be a positive one in your life that you'd want to make regardless of whether they return to your life or not. You'll resent keeping the house up to their standards if they don't decide to return.

(If they do return, you can always work out an explicit contract where they get more of what they want--e.g., house to their standards--in return for them putting in more of that effort or doing things for you!)


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
WAS's are masters of acting "as if". They act like the new life they're pursuing is perfect, the answer to all their hopes and dreams. The reality is she's struggling. There's a storm inside her, she's fighting between wanting to go back to her old life and thinking she needs to pursue a new one. Which will win out is anyone's guess, but don't believe the placid, happy face she's putting on, it's a mask.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
How much do you love her? Do you love her to the point that you want her to be happy, no matter what that means for you? Or do you love her as long as you are getting what you want out of it?

I ran up early in my sitch on an anti-divorce author that spent a good time up front trying to get the LBH to see that true love means wanting your WAW to be happy....even if that means she does what she is doing. She is trying to be happy. Maybe she really is, maybe she is faking it? All you can do is love and support her. Doing that early in my sitch is what helped to start turning my sitch around.

Originally Posted by DaB35
Be happy for her, even if it's not your perfect solution at the moment.

Something good will come out this, as IH says above. I'd read the sticky thread "You will not die" at the top of the Newcomers board. I read it regularly even now. You have to believe that you will be fine whatever the outcome.


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R2C, thanks for doing these threads! These are gold. And I see you started 11 years ago!! Amazing.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
R2C, thanks for doing these threads! These are gold. And I see you started 11 years ago!! Amazing.
My pleasure.


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Originally Posted by RAI
I am sure you are hurting and I am sorry that things went down the way they did. When are you going to start listening to your W? Instead of judging, you could have listened carefully. The conversation could have had a completely different outcome. You must put your ego and sense of rejection aside if you truly want to help your W. She is telling you, nay, shouting out from the rafters, what you need to do. Stop focusing on her actions and start looking at your own. It sounds like you have been neglecting her needs for a long time. Again, everyone here is trying to help you. Before acting irrationally, consult with the good folks here, please. We have no other motive than we want to help you.


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If you can't manage $1,000, you can't manage $10,000. If you're not happy on your own, you won't be happy in a relationship. You are your own foundation. If that is not solid, nothing else can stand on it.


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Originally Posted by Jack_Three_Beans
You have typed in “Divorce Advice” or “I love you but I’m not in love with you anymore” into whatever search engine you use, and you found this place.

When you first find yourself reading this board there is a certain desperate craziness and wild hope. And you read and you search and search for the elusive ‘success’* stories and in many cases you lurk, you read, you discover a few posters you identify with and follow their story or advice. You figure out the lay of the land and how to navigate around here.

You post. You story sounds similar to countless others, and I am not making light of it, it is a sad thing that it does sound similar.

And deep inside a part of you thinks you are different than countless others.

In truth you are a unique snowflake, but in the heat of a mid-life crisis, you are similar to all the other water molecules.

There are immediate problems the new comer here in MLC should realize and damn quick:

There is NO Quick Fix to this.

You CANNOT fix this.

The ‘success’* stories, do not have anything more than you do or are capable of doing. They just know the DBing rules better than you…and they had patience and luck.

Your tactics are tactics, your tricks are tricks.

YOU ARE part of the problem.

You can only control yourself.

DO NOT involve your children.

YOU CAN DO THIS.

Those things you need to accept as quickly as possible.


Things you shouldn’t do but are going to do anyway:
Do not snoop.

Do not tell them I love you.

Do not talk about your relationship.

Do not confront the OP (Other Person).


The ‘success’* stories you have discovered have several things in common.

They are:

Patience. They outlasted their spouse’s MLC.

Support. They told family and friends, to back off about their divorce advice.

Their spouse had an MLC. Sounds strange to list but it is a common factor.

They worked on THEMSELVES. They looked in the mirror and changed their crappy, whinny, entitled behavior. They saw what was weak and broken in themselves and fixed it. AND they used the time their spouse was in their MLC to do this. They made REAL changes and became better. They knew that they helped the downfall of their marriage.

They FORGAVE. Despite the hurt and pain, they forgave their spouse. And make no mistake, this is not as easy as you think it is.


Here in MLC, there is no guarantee. Some of the best advice comes from those you would not define as a ‘success’* in your narrow view point. You want only the ‘successful’* advice, and… there is going to be little difference except in your mind, about the advice.

I made it through here. I came through the hell-fire of my wife’s MLC, not because of the advice from on high, although Snodderly’s words of encouragement helped. (Thank you Snodderly) I made it through because of the support and advice from the people who were right in the same time frame as I was. Right NEXT to me. Liss, and BrandNewDay, and Jeanette and Valentine, and Smurf, and WAS, RedUmbrella. Each one of alone in our hell but right there for each other, egging us on. Worrying about each other.

I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB…not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.

I wonder, if us ‘old wise’ ones aren’t hurting you guys. By doing just that.

Birds won’t fly unless they are pushed out of the nest.



* “success” – The idea that a person is only successful because their spouse came back is ludicrous and narrow minded.
Your spouse can come back at anytime, but until YOU make changes in yourself and FOR yourself, you have failed. The REAL success are the people who came here broken, and fixed themselves, became better people, no matter if their spouse came back. And in THOSE cases, those who better themselves…their marriage is better for it. But that is not important…THEY are better for it.


Link:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1954003


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Thanks again R2C. Love the post you quoted from J3B. I read a lot of his stuff and understand that sadly this gentleman passed a little while ago?

Can you please also post some of your notable quotes too? I cant seem to find any of your short and pithy classics here mate. It's your thread after all...

Cheers DS


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Originally Posted by DS9
Can you please also post some of your notable quotes too? I cant seem to find any of your short and pithy classics here mate. It's your thread after all...
I will leave that up to others....anyone is free to post to this thread...


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Originally Posted by DS9
... understand that sadly this gentleman passed....
I found out yesterday..I was tearing up reading this thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2712601

Got me reading some of his posts...






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Originally Posted by sandi2
Don't compromise with the one who is openly disrespecting you.


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Originally Posted by Gypsy
It's not about recognition from other.. but about recognizing who I am.

His approval does not define my self worth.

Sentences beginning with 'him', 'he' are outlawed, along with 'poor me' statements.

I am no longer a victim.

I will move out of that comfort zone.

It's easier to be the one left behind when it comes to getting sympathy... but guess what.. that does nothing positive when it comes to living a full and productive life.

I will not feel sorry for myself.

I will accept the unknown, the fear.

I will trust those who are worthy.

I will take chances that lead to positive goals.

I will embrace change, be more flexible, listen without talking.

I will leave the crap where it lands and not carry it with me.

What other people say about me is none of my business.

What I say about others is my choice.

I will spend time on what brings joy, renewal and growth.

I will move to a better place in my life without worrying about should have's, would have's, could have's.

I will let go of how I let his choices disable me.

I will focus on where MY choices will take me.

I will not be perfect, the epitome of anything.

I will be a wonderful woman with heart, grace, soul and farts.

I will accept all of me, even the crap I don't like.

I'll clean my mind, unload the stuff that's been stuffing it. Just let go of the clutter I cling to.

I will remember to smile fo no reason, if only to keep that downturned line by my mouth from getting any deeper.

I will remember to wear sunblock.

I will embrace those who relish who I am, and not worry about the others.

I will not view myself through other people's eyes.

I will listen to what is said to me in love, concern, support, hate, disrespect and will make my own choices.

I will learn to separate my knee jerk reactions of emotions from what is truly good for me.

I will love me.. as wonderful, whacky, imperfect, gooky, sad, happy and however else I might be.

I will love others without the fear of the past crippling me.

I will live my life without the blanket of my fears and insecurities.

I will not scratch the wound.

I will accept and own what is mine and flush the rest.

I will heal, be happy, healthy and grateful for all that life has given and will give me.

And I will never be afraid to..


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Last edited by job; 11/01/19 10:57 PM. Reason: added link to new thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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