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Another thing to note, is that not all WHs do return, and in fact most do not. Sadly, I think for some it's just too late, or for some their pride (or shame) prevents them from ever trying to return... Of the ones that do return, there seems to be a pattern of the LBS finally letting go, detaching, and starting to move on. She sends the message that she doesn't need him to be okay in life. He starts to feel that loss as she removes herself from plan B. She is simultaneously "paving the way home," in that he is no longer afraid of her hurt/anger - meaning she is approachable. And yes, it IS contradictory, which is another reason it is so hard. It is also hard to keep your emotional process private from a person that is no longer safe, but also send the message that you would possibly, maybe still be open to reconciliation. This also has to be done more with actions than words. So yes, it feels contradictory and it feels impossible.


That's such a great insight. It is about balancing two very opposing ideas and that just creates the environment and opportunity for the WW/WH to make their way back if they choose to do so.

I also want to add that creating this environment doesn't necessarily guarantee a return or a desire to piece. I know you didn't mean to say that if you do this, the other person will come back. You're just creating the environment for something to happen if the other person chooses to do so.

It's also important to realize that the WW/WH needs to have the capability to engage in the recon process. Some are just not cut out for it. My exW has high anxiety issues and is hugely conflict avoidant. For her to have engaged in the recon process meant that she would have to confront everything about her as well, as well as the marriage. She just doesn't have it in her to do so. She'd rather be someone new and try it the second go around than face her demons. As much as I kept the path paved, there was no inclination on her part to do any of the hard work.

I hope she's happy and life works out for her, but she is not the piecing type. There would have to be a lot of personal growth on her part and getting professional help to address her issues, which she's not willing to do. So, there's not much you can do about it.

Having said that, people can surprise you in ways and I don't ever discount that, but I wasn't willing to wait around for a miracle to happen.


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Truthfully you could DB like a JEDI master and it wouldn't matter.

IMO it has more to do with the spouse that is wanting out vs anything that the LBS does.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Thanks for weighing in guys. I think the concept of "paving the way home" changes due to the dynamic between the couple. I was quite emotional and angry and spent a bit of time lashing out at H when he ran off with OW. So in my sitch, I had to knock that off. I had to put on my poker face and show him indifference so that he felt safe to approach me at all. In the mean time I got better at GAL and detachment. So he saw my naturally moving on and planning my life without him (and I was). I started to remove myself as plan B and he naturally became more curious about what I was doing. He also became afraid that I would move on and not reconsider him, which is why he did a fast turn around. At the same time he was realizing more and more that OW was a big mistake. She wanted a more than he ever did and she had become his only ally so he had felt more stuck and she was less desirable to him.

The mistake I read here a lot is that people think that "paving the way home" means that they can work on the R while their S is gone. It doesn't work that way and it actually makes you a doormat. They might seem as if they are working on the R, but in reality they are just securing you as the back up plan in case they made a mistake. Sadly, what the LBS doesn't realize is that if you allow them to work on the R after they have just left you (and or are having an A) they are simultaneously losing respect for you. They will not want to come back, even if they are sending mixed messages that they might. Think about it from this angle: if your H or W leaves the M, and you are saying "I still love you. I am still here. Pick me," that actually makes you look weak and desperate. A strong and confident person would protect their hurt feelings and say "I am too good for this. I deserve better. I am taking care of me now." Because your S coming to you and saying they are unhappy is one thing, but when they pick up and leave or have an A, that is quite another! Why would you want someone that can treat you that way?

That is why I believe in the DB program here and Sandis rules. It is the only natural response. When someone leaves you, let them go. Focus on yourself and your kids. Become the best version of yourself. Don't try and work on the R, nice them back, or show them your changes. It won't work. You can only control one person and that is yourself. .... I read so many posters here making excuses for why their sitch is different, how the rules don't apply to them, why their S isn't having an A, and on and on. Nope. That is not how it works. Those of us that have been reading here for so many years, see the same patterns again and again.

Maika, is right as well. Even if you do follow the rules and even if you do everything perfect, many will still not come back. And for those that do, they must have changed first. It takes two strong people that are willing to look inside and change. That is asking a lot! They must also be remorseful, honest, and transparent, for piecing to work. Then and even then, like in my case, you can be 4 years down the road and still question it. It is so, so hard. .... So take care of yourself people, because you will always have yourself no matter what happens.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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J - you just summed it up in one sentence that I was trying to say. Couldn't have it written more perfectly.

Blu - yes, if there is an A, attempts at 'paving the home' will come across as weak and the other person is losing even more respect for you. That's why you have to just walk away at that point and get your strength and dignity back so that you are never viewed as Plan B.

There is only so much the LBS can do and that's why the advice to become the best version of yourself for yourself is golden. If the other person wants to recon, then they must have done the work and made changes, not to mention true remorse, transparency, honesty, and some level of emotional fitness. For me I would always look for the person taking ownership and accountability of what they did - not just BD, but how they contributed to the deterioration of the M. Without that, there is nothing for me to work with. I wouldn't entertain a recon attempt without all of that.

And even if that happens, as you have so eloquently and painstakingly recorded here, the piecing journey is difficult and strewn with mines. So, it's a lot to take.

Ultimately, it's you with yourself for sure. Take care of that relationship first and you'll do more than fine.


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I'm glad you updated your thread. As time goes on, we LBS's hopefully start to open our eyes and let go of our fear of "losing" our cheating spouses. As you said earlier, they were already gone. The downside to that is there are some posters here who decide they're done. I don't blame them either.

The "paving the way home" thing has really changed a lot for me. My view initially was to be the happy puppy dog who'd do anything when given some attention, but as time passes and as we work on detachment and getting through our emotions we can grow stronger and eventually act stronger. It's so tough reading the same stories over and over. It's even tougher to go re-read your own story and cringe at yourself. I haven't done that yet (b/c I'm fearful). True "paving the way home" is really letting go, not fighting, not getting mad or sad or annoyed at the things your WAS does.

Anyways, you know it [censored] that your friend told her friend all this info. I guess you have to qualify things even as adults. My stupid in laws lied to my face, telling me they wouldn't tell my W things I told them. Well, that was just another lesson learned, another strawberry on my knee from when I fell down. So anyways, hope all is as well as it can be!


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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BluWave- Thank you for sharing your story and imparting so much advice and wisdom here. I appreciate it enormously.

I wonder if you would be willing to talk about how the separation affected your children? What were their struggles? What helped at the time?

There seems to be a lot of information here about how LBS spouses deal with everything but so little information about how the kids deal. I know that I will get through this but the effects on my children of my husband breaking up our family cause me the most stress of all. My kids are young, 7 and 9, and their father is like their personal superhero. I know that everyone says that the kids get through it if you are strong but I am looking for a bit more of the nitty gritty than that. If you are willing to share, of course.

Thank you.

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Hey Kate - while Blu gets back to you, let me share my experience with this and how it affected my kids.

I have two kids, 7 & 9 - same ages as yours. The separation period was hard in the beginning for them. My oldest especially was terrified that I wasn't coming back every time he would leave me to go with his mom. Obviously they didn't understand what was going on and we sat them down and gave them age appropriate info. I asked my exW to lead the convo as I wasn't breaking this to the kids.

Since then, over the past year, kids have reminisced about the family home and living a life together. My youngest is also very attached to me - I have a very strong bond with both my kids as I did take time away from my jobs to care for them when they were young. My youngest would also have many episodes where she wouldn't want me to leave. They have generally asked a few times about why the separation and why they are living in two places. Both of them have shown great frustration at living in two places over the year. My oldest had an emotional breakdown over a year ago when my exW said something really stupid to him - she should've framed it in a different way. But I got a call from the school that my oldest was just sad and crying and the Principal told me that he lashed out in class and when they talked to him, he said that his family was breaking apart. Man, my heart went out to him so badly. He said that that was what his mom had told him. What a dumb way to explain it to a kid. I went to school and got him and just gave him love. No talking no explanations, just love, hugs, and kisses.

For me, I knew that my journey towards self reclamation after BD included improving my relationship with the kids. Two books have been instrumental and totally transformative for me becoming a better parent and a better person in general: books by Dr. Shefali Tsabary and Robert W. Greene. Look them up.

In terms of the nitty gritty, the following things have worked really well for me and the kids:

1. Developing consistency in schedule and the kids knowing what their day and each week looks like - they both know the calendar and when they are with me and when they are with their mom.

2. Involving them in making 'family' decisions to give them a sense of control and belonging - we make weekly menus together; we plan activities together; etc. any decision that may affect them and it's reasonable to get them involved, I do it. They are learning how to cook with me now, which is fun

3. I started 'family' meetings. I realized that trying to talk to them about what they were feeling or school or whatever was getting difficult. So, 'family' meetings was a good way to create a fake structure to talk about stuff. Both kids take turns being the 'Chair' and we do once a week meetings. We co-create the agenda. I take this as an opportunity to share with them what's going on in my life and work and so there is a give and take about us sharing, and it's not just me asking them about their life. We do a Q&A session at the end when they get to ask any questions, which is always fun.

4. I highly prioritize their emotional health vs anything else in life or at school. I have been working with them to create self-awareness around emotions and even just naming them when they feel them and us discussing it later.

5. And love, kisses, hugs, storytime, games etc always always always

There is also another framework that I personally developed over a year ago. I call it the 'Law of Needs'. It goes like this. I recognized that I always minimized my needs in life and marriage and that was a huge detriment to my well being. Led to depression etc.

So, I vowed that I would not minimize my needs. However, with kids, I needed to figure out how I would balance that. Hence the 'Law of Needs'.

My needs and the kids needs (not our 'wants') are on the same level playing field, same dimension. They operate in parallel. However, there are shared needs and they overlap - it creates great opportunities to spend more quality time with the kids and do stuff together. But, there are also times when our needs clash. Whenever that happens, the kids needs always trump mine.

For example, I am tired and I need to lie down on the couch and rest, but the kids want to play a game or go for a walk or to the playground, I get my butt up from the couch and do what they want. Yes, I need to rest, but I can do that later too.

Having this framework has allowed me to make sure that everybody's needs are met and there is problem solving approach when I may have to defer my needs.

I would say that ultimately give your kids consistency, a sense of control and ownership over their lives, don't bad mouth the other parent and don't divulge anything to them that is not age appropriate. And super duper amounts of love, affection, hugs, and kisses.

Ultimately, as I improved myself and went through personal growth, my parenting improved tremendously. My relationship with my kids improved a thousand fold. What I have with them right now is just incredible. But I read, did experiments with different strategies, and fine tuned some stuff. Get yourself emotionally healthy and the rest will follow. My strategies might not work exactly for you, but you will figure out what works for you and your children.

More than happy to answer in more specificity and approaches I took. I have tons of examples to illustrate what I am talking about - let me know.


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Maika- Thank you so much for your highly detailed response! It is very helpful to hear what other people have done to try and help their kids through this process. I will certainly look up the books you suggested. You have given me much to think about. Thank you again.

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Kate - Just showing your H respect, not bad mouthing him in front of your kids, and making them choose sides will do wonders for how they make it through the situation. My XW and I still sit by each other at all of our kids activities and even though she has been dating her BF for over a year now I will not change how I currently operate just because he shows up.

In order to do this though I had to take the high road on many occasions but it was worth it for my girls.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Ovr, buddy, I think you are ready to face the challenge. I think you should go back and read your threads from day one. If anything, it will remind you how far you've come in this process.

kate, I saw your post yesterday and have been thinking about how to reply. I like what Maika wrote a lot. He is a DB champ and also a loyal dad. And I agree with TBSaka -- we should never bad mouth the other parent. Our kids have a right to love their other parent and develop their own relationships with them, no matter how many mistakes they may have made. Kids want to love and identify with both parents. They don't want to ever have to take sides and they shouldn't have to.

This topic is hard for me and one I have not addressed much on this site. I don't even know how to sum it up in one post, or even one thread. I have 3 Ds and they are my everything. That was a very hard time. I feel as if I could have done a better job protecting them during my separation. I also don't have too many regrets because instead of trying to shield my kids from adversity, I would rather give them tools to work through things. In several ways I did do that. They knew they could talk to me about anything and cry or even be angry. I give my kids that freedom.

My kids did had several struggles at that time, some were related to our sitch and some not. My oldest D was in HS and we had to send her to wilderness and then a therapeutic boarding school. It was devastating. However, she is now a young adult and doing quite well. We were just talking about this today and I am continually impressed by her strength and resilience. She was old enough to know what was going on at the time and I wasn't about to lie to her. I did have to remind her that none of it was her fault and that he still loved her and would be there for her. This was hard for her because her own bio dad had already abandoned her years before.

My middle girl, who is now in HS, seemed to handle things okay. She is also a quiet easy going kid, and doesn't make waves. It was hard to tell how she was processing it all. I do believe that what happened has caused her additional anxiety and depression in general, as did losing her big sister at that time. She had lost her grandpa (who had died months before BD), her stable family unit, and then her big sister was sent away. It was really rough on her.

The little D doesn't have a lot of memories of that time. She is also a very happy and adaptable kid in general. She just turned 9 last week. When we argue now and she hears anything, she gets upset, cries and then asks if we are getting divorced. That hurts a lot. My kids all want our family together. They seem more stable and secure when we are.

Some say that "you can't stay together just for the kids," while others say, "there is no better reason to stay together than for the kids." I actually agree with the latter. I made a commitment to my kids to have a family. I also see how much better off they are with our family intact, even if our M is not great. My H is a good guy and has done the work, so I feel like I owe it to my kids to make this work.

You asked what helped at the time. I think the best thing I did was protecting them emotionally. We didn't talk about heavy things around them and we remained civil, and even cordial, in front of them. We created a consistent schedule that we stuck to, so we both saw them every day or every other day. We told them how much we loved them and that our separation had nothing to do with them. We kept them in the family home and I would leave several evenings a week so he could be with them here. He only took them with him every other weekend. I made a strong point to be more present and engaging with them when I was with them. I also was honest with them and didn't lie: if they saw me cry and asked why I would tell them the truth. I would tell them that I was very sad and that I missed our family being together. I told them it was okay for them to cry and feel sad too. I think as hard as it was, they knew that we both would love them and support them, even if we were not together. I honestly think that while getting D is not ideal for kids, them knowing that is absolutely enough.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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