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Persistent Endurance #2841771
03/14/19 05:36 PM
03/14/19 05:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
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curtis7 Offline OP
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curtis7  Offline OP
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Posts: 271
Hey everyone,

I've read several of the agonizing stories and many that have given me hope over the past few months. I feel it's the right time for me to join this community, share my story, and obtain support from the amazing group of people here. I'll break the background up into monthly increments as there is quite a bit to digest. Just to preface, I am doing what I can to change myself, avoid divorce, and start a new marriage with my W.

My life with my W seemed to be going along fine. We met in college, had been married for 14 years and known each other 18 years. We were in a state of relationship comfort and mostly focusing on our two kids S/8 and D/4. There were not many arguments, certainly nothing that seemed out of the ordinary or severe. However, we weren't doing much as a couple since the kids dominated our time. Although we traveled regularly prior to becoming parents, we were generally homebodies that didn't go out often on dates. That seemed to be fine for both of us as we enjoyed each other's company when we were together, were intimate regularly, and we had built a great life.

In late October 2018, my W told me she was unhappy with our sex life and reluctantly told me how she wish it could be different similar to some romance novel fantasies she had become fond of. The next week, we took a week long family cruise with our kids and she was cold and distant for much of it. We were intimate once during the cruise and it didn't seem to be good for either of us. This was the last time she really showed any physical affection towards me up until this post. Upon leaving the ship and driving home, my W was texting the entire 2 hour drive. I later found out she was texting her new best friend that was going through a divorce and a therapist that she had been seeing for several months. Two days later on the evening of 11/6/2018, my wife brought me a glass of wine and then hit me with, at the time, the biggest shock of my life, BOMB DROP!!! She gave me a letter that expressed her unhappiness with me, identified many of my shortcomings in our relationship, and alluded that she didn't know if we could go back to a starting place. Although, it didn't state that she wanted the Big D. I remained calm and after a few minutes and reading the letter again, it hit me. It was like an epiphany where I finally saw it, understood how she was driven away, and acknowledged everything. At that moment I committed to changing myself forever, for her, for my family, for those close to me, and most importantly, for myself.

We talked for a few hours and she said that over the past 4 months she had stepped back to observe us and everything started to crystallize to her. She felt that she could have a chance of finding happiness and being her own person if I was out of her life. She told me she had been seeing an IC that told her I was overly controlling. I now understand why she felt this way after spending the past few months learning more about controlling behavior. I later learned that a co-worker had started communicating with her regularly over the course of the year and things started to heat up in August when he asked her out. This was an EA in which he complimented her intellect, beauty, and sense of humor. All of which she possesses and to a high degree. My W is highly attractive and I can certainly understand why others would want to pursue her.

Over the next few days after BD, I sent her text messages trying to show her how much she meant to me and how great our life can be together going forward. She was cordial in her responses and said this whole situation makes me sad. I had previous plans to go out of town with friends for the weekend and it was utter misery. During that time, I wrote my own letter that acknowledged how I had failed her in our marriage, apologized for everything, and laid out how I planned for things to be different. She read it when I got home but did not seem overly taken by the content. She said several things in the letter were good for me, but too late for her and don't change her feelings or decisions. I asked if she had made a decision and she said yes, she wanted to end our marriage and be independent. She said she had no feelings left for me and feels indifferent. She said her lack of anger is a sign that she doesn't care anymore.

She asked that I stay in the guest bedroom. I had a very hard time with this and asked her if I could sleep in our bed as my heart was racing and she calms me, which she did. Over the next several days I continued to text her appreciation, gratitude, and expressions of my love. We talked about our relationship a few more times and I think she had fully expected me to react negative to the BD and become upset and combative. However, my reaction was the opposite and my commitment to change put her in a state of disbelief and I don't think she knew what to do. Her walls were already up and she said I was only making changes out of fear of losing the marriage and how others may think of that.

Over the next few weeks, I made all of the classic mistakes. I kept pursuing and trying to convince her. I reached out to her sister for help and her new BFF that was close to finalizing her divorce. Neither of them offered assistance and said that my wife needed to work through this on her own. I continued telling my wife how things are going to be better and she will have more time to do the things she enjoyed. I was killing myself taking on all of the household chores and going out of my way to do special things for her each day. I was struggling to sleep at night and depression was setting in.

I started monitoring her phone records and text logs to try to find answers or pinpoint where or how this all started. I had never once looked at any of this in all our time together prior to the BD. I did notice a trend that communication with her new best friend that was going a divorce had ramped up significantly. In early the first half of 2018, they averaged about 50 text messages per month. However, in June 2018 when her friend and now ex husband made a decision to dissolve their marriage, texts between the two of them increased to 100 that month, then 300 in July, then 750 in August, 1100 in November, and 2100 in December!! I could only imagine the bashing of husbands and plotting that was going on in these exchanges. We had known the couple that was divorcing as long as my wife and I have been together. I think my wife really bonded with the woman as her mother had passed away within the past year and my wife's mother had past away when she was a freshman in college.

Also, on the phone records was a new number after a night out with her almost divorced friend. I looked up the number and found it was a pickup artist in training that was only 25 years old, my wife was 37 at the time. From now on, he will be referred to as the OM. I confronted her about the number and shared with my W what I had learned about him and she said it was all for fun, he was funny, and that there was nothing to worry about. I kept pressuring her, was clingy and needy. Then, the day after Thanksgiving I saw an email confirmation of a credit card charge for a hotel when my W was going out with her almost divorced friend again. She sent me a text saying "gonna stay here tonight." A few weeks later I discovered this night was a realization of one of my greatest fears in life where my W had a PA with the OM.

I believe her lack of happiness and fulfillment in achieving goals in her life, the EA with her co-worker, comments from her therapist on our relationship, and H bashing with her almost divorced friend were the perfect storm for the BD and catalyst to become a WW.

At this time, I was just starting to learn about MLC and had not connected the dots yet. That about sums up November 2018. On to next post...


Me: 40 W: 38, S: 8 D: 5
T: 19 M: 15, BD: 11/6/2018
PA confirmed & IHS: 12/3/2018
W moves out: 4/2/2019
Retrouvaille: 9/27-9/29/2019
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841773
03/14/19 05:39 PM
03/14/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,024
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Cadet Offline

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Cadet  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,024
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-65, D33,S32
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841774
03/14/19 05:40 PM
03/14/19 05:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
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curtis7 Offline OP
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curtis7  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
On to December 2018...

I started spending time at the local library reading self-help books on relationships and marriage. I read "The Happy Couple" by Barton Goldsmith, "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman, "DR" by Michelle, "DB" by Michelle, "Ten Lessons to Transform Your Marriage" by John Gottman, "Marriage Rescue" by Gary Direnefeld, and "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil. I also spent a considerable amount of time online reading articles and forums on what could be going on with my W and our relationship and ways to reconcile and reconnect. I offered some of these resources to her and she skimmed a few, but said I was just finding things that support my point of view.

I started the practice of Letting Her Go and GAL by going out and staying away from the house. This was hard for me as I really didn't want to leave my kids. They are my world especially since the BD. I was trying not to spy or snoop on her but she was constantly glued to her phone. I had the underlying suspicion that something wasn't right. She had recently changed her password by I saw the pattern at dinner one night in early December. When she went outside for a while I unlocked the phone and discovered the EA with the OM that consisted of sexting and pictures along with confirmation of the PA the day after Thanksgiving. This was the most pain I had ever felt in my life. I confronted her on it and she denied everything until I told her I saw what was on her phone. She had plans to meet the OM again the next day but told me she planned to cancel because she couldn't do that type of thing again without an emotional connection. We have not slept in the same bed since this blowup and argument.

Over the next week I continued to pressure and try to convince. In response, she grew more distant. I started waking up several times during the night in cold sweats and was losing weight daily. I was already down 15 pounds since the BD (and I only started at 170 lbs). She was starting to rewrite history and say that she thought about saying no when I asked her to marry me and questioned if she ever loved me. She said it was time for her to be selfish regardless of what it does to others. She said she wants true separation and freedom to date other men. I woke her up one night and asked all the questions I thought I needed to get closure on the PA, which she answered. That night, I told her I'm sleeping in the MBR from now and said she can come back whenever she feels she's ready. I asked her to read the first chapter of DR where it discusses biased shoulders (namely her now divorced best friend and possibly her sister), she made it half way through before becoming too tired and wanting to sleep. She never read it again. She started sleeping in the guest bedroom.

She kept wanting to go out with friends, she was still meeting up with the co-worker and continuing that EA. I asked her to text me her whereabouts which she agreed. We engaged in more relationship talk and she said she felt trapped and that I was backing her into a corner that keeps getting smaller and smaller. She threatened to file if I kept that up. My W discussed separation with her sister and they agreed that it was a good idea since it worked for 3 of her sisters co-workers that all returned to their marriages. I tried to share the statistics that ~75% of separations end in divorce and the research study that indicated that 80% of unhappy marriages are happy 5 years later. She discounted those and thought she could be in the minority for both of those. My W went to a therapy session and the IC supported separation as well, but thought it was a good thing that I was trying to change.

I continued to pressure her during mid-December and asked her to read books and articles for different perspectives. She said I was trying to change her mind and she refused. She said it was another form of control and that I should stop being noble by holding on. During this time, I was trying to limit contact, go dark occasionally, and was successful for a few days, then I fell right back into the trap. One step forward, and two steps back. I made several more discoveries during this time frame with love notes for the co-worker and OM, sex toy gifts from the divorced woman, and new text message records from the OM. Each of these had a devastating impact on me that caused me to question her. Of course, these attempts were met with strong resistance and she pulled away each time. She said my snooping was why she wanted to separate. I wanted to start practicing DB'n, but the fear of the OM relationship was consuming me and this lasted through the holidays into the New Year.

By mid-December the lies were starting to mount. I realized that I couldn't believe anything that she said to me and only 50% of what she did. She was covering up phone activity and spending almost all of her waking hours outside of work staring and pecking away at her phone. Often neglecting our children. Her behavior was becoming more destructive, going out drinking, staying up late, and trying to recapture her youth. Her vanity was being prioritized as she started going for manicures, pedicures, waxings, buying skin anti-aging creams and pills, and other health and beauty items she never had before.

By late-December her new personality was almost unrecognizable to me. I was still committed to staying strong no matter how far she strays into the fog. She seemed so lost and I kept hoping and praying that she realizes all the good we can share before it's too late and our bond is broken. I was checking text records again and saw that she was back in contact with the OM. When I questioned her, she said she had no regret and didn't care if I healed. She said there is no attraction for me, she feels repulsed when I touch her, and doesn't want to come home after work.

My W was planning to go on a girls trip to an all-inclusive resort in Cancun for the divorced woman's 40th birthday in mid-January. She said she plans to move out after she gets back. So, my W started looking for apartments and rental homes after Xmas. I continued a few days of distancing, then a slip up every 3 days back to relationship talk. She took our kids to the divorced woman's apartment on New Year's Eve, leaving me home alone. Fortunately, I went to a co-worker's party and tried to be social. A not so wonderful end to 2018 and praying that 2019 is the year we can rekindle the spark...


Me: 40 W: 38, S: 8 D: 5
T: 19 M: 15, BD: 11/6/2018
PA confirmed & IHS: 12/3/2018
W moves out: 4/2/2019
Retrouvaille: 9/27-9/29/2019
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841777
03/14/19 06:10 PM
03/14/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,157
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LH19 Online
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Man that was painful to read I am so sorry for you man.

I think you need to start off with the realization that pursuit and relationship talks don't work and make matters worse.

I also want you to know that this is going to take a really long time to completely play out (months most likely years) and you are not looking to rekindle a spark right now. You are in damage control right now. When I say that I mean that you can't make matters better right now but you can certainly make them worse.

Where is she at with getting her own apartment?

Last edited by LH19; 03/14/19 06:13 PM.

M:50 W:45
T:22 M:16
S:14 D:10

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841797
03/14/19 07:34 PM
03/14/19 07:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,765
Colorado
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Ready2Change Online
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Ready2Change  Online
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,765
Colorado

Hi Curtis,


You are ahead of most newbies. Good job reading. Keep it up. Counter-intuitive is the key right now. No pressure. No pursuit.


You have been given a gift even if you can't see that now. Focus on your personal growth.

Read all my quote threads. All kinds of wisdom in here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2831362#Post2831362



I am versed in the pick-up artist stuff. Study this. Read between the lines and up your game. OM using this with married women shows his poor character.

Look this post over for counter-intuitive ways to attract:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094


R2C

Last edited by Ready2Change; 03/14/19 07:35 PM.

"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: LH19] #2841801
03/14/19 07:42 PM
03/14/19 07:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
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curtis7 Offline OP
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curtis7  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
LH19, even though I kept reading it everywhere, it did take me over 3 months to realize pursuit and relationship talks were horrible choices. The jealousy and insecurity with the other men were just too much of a temptation for me. Iím dealing with that better over the past few weeks.

Stay tuned for the apartment/separation update. More details coming in February and March summaries.


Me: 40 W: 38, S: 8 D: 5
T: 19 M: 15, BD: 11/6/2018
PA confirmed & IHS: 12/3/2018
W moves out: 4/2/2019
Retrouvaille: 9/27-9/29/2019
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: Ready2Change] #2841805
03/14/19 07:52 PM
03/14/19 07:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
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curtis7 Offline OP
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curtis7  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
R2C, thanks for the links to the resources. Iíve been in a highly motivated state to learn as much as I can since this all started. My W and my family are that important to me. I focus on my kids to give me the strength to keep fighting on the really tough days. She is a good person that has gotten into a bad way right now. I know she can come out of this someday.

She finds the pick-up artist stuff so fresh, exciting, and fills her with lust that satisfies her fantasies and desires. These men that try to move in on married women with young children are the scum of the earth IMO. Half the worldís population is single, but they feel the need to exert their power and control on vulnerable wives and mothers.


Me: 40 W: 38, S: 8 D: 5
T: 19 M: 15, BD: 11/6/2018
PA confirmed & IHS: 12/3/2018
W moves out: 4/2/2019
Retrouvaille: 9/27-9/29/2019
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841808
03/14/19 07:54 PM
03/14/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
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curtis7 Offline OP
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curtis7  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 271
On to January 2019...

Continued keeping up with domestic responsibilities and projects around the house. Although I was already in good shape physically, I started exercising at the gym even more. I often go with a friend that is a positive influence and gives me support on what I am willing to disclose. I try to keep the extremely personal details private because I truly believe I will reconcile with my W someday and I donít want people to know many things.

I have taken notice that friends and family are quick to offer their advice in these types of situations. Much of the recommendations are for me to move on and often contradict my ultimate goal of making our marriage stronger than ever. I view these as quick fixes for happiness that are not in the long-term best interest of my family. Marriage is work and is the most fulfilling, separation and divorce is the easy way out.

My W started taken more selfies and I knew she was sending them to the OM. She engaged in episodes where she attacked me if she didnít like the way I was taking care of the kids. I was going about a week with giving her space with the IHS and we worked on a house project together. She posted it on FB and thanked me for helping. However, I later learned that night she went to see the OM for their second encounterwhen she told me she was going shopping.

She was ramping up her rental and house search with a realtor and was leaning towards buying a small place. The kids were starting to take notice and ask questions why we werenít sleeping in the same room. This was very painful to hear from our kids. I just said we were working on some things.

I bought Manly Marriage Revival and started trying to follow the guidance offered. I distanced myself from her and letting her go to get her back for the week leading up to her trip to Cancun. I have her a hug when she left for the airport that she didnít really reciprocate. The resort was for singles,† it sure what she may have engaged in and donít want to know. She callled nightly to video chat with just the kids. She looked tired and run down on the calls from drinking and staying up late each night. When she got back from the trip, I gave her a hug and told her how happy we all were which was met with a cold response.

I surprised her with a house project while she was in Cancun. We spent the next couple nights finishing it up with painting. She called me honey on a couple of occasions. That felt nice to hear for the first time in months.

After almost 3 weeks of not talking about our relationship, I gave her a hug one night after work and told how great of a mother she was, but she tried to push away. I asked her if her needs were being met and she said she felt like she was in a holding pattern. She said she wasnít getting any younger and feels like she was missing out on life, possibly personally and in a relationship. She compares herself to her mother who died at 51 and she doesnít know how much time she has left. She said she is broken and wants to separate but she said that doesnít necessarily mean the end for us. She said she feels even more pressure after coming back from Cancun. She said she is sick of hearing there is no pressure from me, her career, others. She said she took care of the the situation with her co-worker, one man down, OM to go.

I asked her to agree that if at any point her feelings started to change that she would put the pause on separation and work on us, she said I would be the first to know. She said she has been treating me nice as a friend but that I shouldnít get the wrong idea. That is why she refuses to touch me or sleep in the same bed with me, she doesnít want me to get the wrong idea. She said her views on life have changed over time when she looks at others and wonders what if they had chosen a different path. She just doesnít feel it right now and thinks she is wasting her time because she is convinced those feelings wonít return. She said she waited until after Cancun just as I asked, but her feelings havenít changed, I said that could take a long time. She again said itís her and that she manipulates people. I told her she doesnít and I accept everything about her and will be there for her when she is ready.

Near the end of January, she went with me to a doctorís appointment and later told me she felt like her skin was crawling on the car ride. My W continued texting the OM and lied to me about who it was, but I knew. I asked her about the OM. She said he got a new phone and he was funny. I asked if she would show me the texts and she refused. She said she was not sexting him but there were innuendos that are inappropriate. I told her that if she is giving emotions to others, then that undermines our relationship and makes it significantly more difficult to work on us. She promised she wasnít going to see him, but still wonít agree to break off all contact. That night, a third encounter with the OM took place when she told me she was going out with her divorced BFF.

The next morning our daughter approached my W and asked why she makes me sad. My W stormed into the MBR criticized me, but I remained calm. She said we could go to a counselor so a third party could tell me what sheís been trying to tell me because Iím not listening. She again said she wants a divorce.

One of the most challenging things for me in all of this are the other men. I believe I could give her a lot of space and time if I knew there was no one else in her life, but she refuses to give those assurances. That about sums up January, returned to distancing...


Me: 40 W: 38, S: 8 D: 5
T: 19 M: 15, BD: 11/6/2018
PA confirmed & IHS: 12/3/2018
W moves out: 4/2/2019
Retrouvaille: 9/27-9/29/2019
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841810
03/14/19 08:06 PM
03/14/19 08:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,765
Colorado
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Ready2Change Online
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,765
Colorado


So I would play this game with my kids when they were little. They would come to me and I would softly push them away and say NOPE. Guess what they did? Yup, they would try harded to get close to me. The more I pushed them away. The more they wanted to be with me. And of course, other times, I would flip it. "I am going to hug you" and chase them. Of course they ran away giggling. The more I chased, the more they ran away.

Works with women too.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: Persistent Endurance [Re: curtis7] #2841812
03/14/19 08:08 PM
03/14/19 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,765
Colorado
R
Ready2Change Online
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Ready2Change  Online
Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,765
Colorado
Originally Posted by curtis7
One of the most challenging things for me in all of this are the other men. I believe I could give her a lot of space and time if I knew there was no one else in her life, but she refuses to give those assurances. That about sums up January, returned to distancing...
Set her free. Do not try to control her.

My montra:
"I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me."


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
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