Hi. I'm new here. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with what behaviors will be seen as a wife moves from Replay to Depression? My wife is in replay rn just wondering what to look for. About 2 years ago she lost about 40 lbs and was eating really well. As of this past summer she has been gaining most of that weight back and she is eating lots of junk. Is this a possible sign that Replay is winding down and Depression is begining. I know there are no set rules and everyone is on a different path. Just want to see if anyone has any real life experience with this.
Yes. I am practicing detachment. I don't speak with her unless absolutely necessary. I'm just trying to determine what's best for me and my kids. If this thing is coming to an end then I will hold on but if there's no end in sight I have to start planning for an alternate future.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Welcome to the MLC Forum! People who post on all of the forums have experienced the monsters of MLC and WAS. It's not an easy journey, but over time, things will become a bit more clearer for you. Read the homework that Cadet has provided and start visiting the other threads on the forum. You will begin to see many of the same traits in each thread. Each MLCer will experience some of the same traits of others, but because of childhood issues and personalities, each will be unique. How long does it take? It has been said 5-7 years, but it will take as long as it takes for her to work through her crisis. Some do not come out of it and they will behave as teenagers for the rest of their lives because they don't want to face their issues and accept what they could not change and grow up. Time will tell where she is.
When going through the stages of MLC, they are not moving in a linear fashion. They can bounce back and forth from anger all the way to withdrawal and back again. MLC's main ingredient is depression. MLC is all about going back the time in their childhood lives whereby they were emotionally stunted by someone.
While they are in replay, they will begin to experience the very deep, dark depression and withdrawal. Replay is where they act out as teenagers and do the things that they once did. This is the stage where they have to do the "one more time" things in life.
MLC is not a sprint, it is a marathon. It is a journey for both of you. She needs to go back and face those demons and accept that she was not at fault for whatever happened and begin to move forward and grow up, emotionally and mentally. As for your journey, it is a time to rediscover YOU! It is a time to do those things that you've not been able to do for a long time. Make a list of things that you put aside and begin to work on them. It's a time to make changes for you, if you think you need to make changes. Changes should be only for you and not to win her back.
As to whether you wait on move on, that is a decision only you can make. However because you are asking the question, I would venture to say that you aren't ready to move on. For now, continue to move forward and keep the focus on you!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Mine isn't out of replay yet (still an OW lurking) but I think he is getting near the end and has had a first awakening and is reconnecting.
I saw depression throughout. I'm seeing a return to calm now. A slowing down. More responsiveness. More ability to handle responsibility. Visible sadness. Efforts to restore relationships.
If you have any waiver about standing or moving on - Stand!
As to an eventual end to her behavour. There is no answer to timelines. I tend to believe that most people grow up and figure out their past. Whether they reach out to the LBS is a question, again not knowable. And unfortunately some people never find their way back from the darkness.
When talking about my beliefs regarding most common trends. Most LBS stop standing before the MLC runs its course. And that is perfectly alright. Standing is for you, not her.
You mentioned doing the best for you and your kids.
Originally Posted by Faith4fu
Do I continue to wait it out or do I move on?
This was not fully answered in my first line.
You do neither.
Do not move on until absolutely sure it is what your deep core beliefs tell you to do.
Do not wait. This is a long process. Waiting will make it feel even longer.
You stand and move forward. Live you life! Love your life! GAL. You work on yourself, you become the best Faith4fu you can be. You become the best Dad you can be.
Do you have any long term headings? Grand noble goals to reach, like forgiveness.
I would love to hear more of your situation. How long married? How many and how old are kids? You mentioned detachment, how is that coming along. Any feelings of indifference?
I do hope you will post, it does help one sort out their feelings and thoughts.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Some excellent advice that I received here was to make the choice each and every day on whether you are shutting the door or leaving it open.
For me - one day I was sure down to my bones that I was done waiting and I was done that day. This did follow months of soul searching though.
I don't regret my choice.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Ok. I haven't been on in a long time. Life has been busy. I am so glad this forum exists though. Hopefully I will be able to get on.
It's been almost 3 months since I started to notice changes in w. She has not been hateful towards me in almost 3 mos. She just looks depressed and "beaten".
She is still sleeping on the couch and is still participating in an online ea. That also seems to be losing steam.
Yesterday she gave me $70 to help with the bills and said she will try to do more.
She just seems like she is being nicer to me.
As for me, I am almost 90 days sober. Not drinking has helped me gain clarity.
Just trying to figure out if replay may be coming to an end.
I'm just wondering if somone can answer a question for me.
I read somewhere on one of the threads that there comes a point at which your mlc w won't leave if she hasn't yet.
Can somoeone confirm or correct that assumption?
W seems to be in the last stages of replay. She has been very calm for at least four months now. No cycling... Just calm.
She is still involved in online ea (he lives in another country). There has never been evidence of a pa. I read an article about the 2nd half of replay and how it begins the 1st awakening. I just feel like we're there.
I just want to hear other peoples thoughts.
I have been working on myself and now accept any outcome that occurs.
As long as there is an affair, she is still in replay, PERIOD. Anything can send her right back to early replay (or other phases). I am not an expert but I would assume your only bet on a chance of her staying is after acceptance, AND you have both decided to dedicate everything to saving the M. Early reconciliation will lead only to disaster.
From personal experience, do not try and guess which stage they are in. It will only hurt you. For me, I thought for certain my W was headed out of replay. Her EA had been continuing (in secrecy) despite our reconciliation. I had been convinced she was in the clear and of sound mind. When I found out I asked her about it and it threw her right back into the tunnel at full force. Separation soon followed. EA turned PA and we are divorced 6 months later. She has lost her close family, the respect of friends/community, her home, her loving husband and continues to be with OM.
Start GAL and planning a new and wonderful future for you and the kids. Regardless of what occurs, you will be mentally prepared for the outcome. MLC folks have untapped stamina and will wear you down for a very long time. As seen in many instances here, they will stop at nothing. They will destroy anything and everything while on their journey. Protect yourself and the kids emotionally.
Hamburg is absolutely correct...if she is still having an affair, be it physical or emotional, she is in replay. Emotional affairs are very difficult to break and it will take some time for that to wind down because it is more on the emotional/mental side of things and not just a purely physical one.
She may opt to remain in the home because it is more beneficial to her because of finances or it could be that you aren't putting undue pressure on her or her affair partner is not ready to move forward and have her move in w/him. Whatever the reason, you will need to let her be and keep the focus on you.
Time will tell just where she's at, but she is still in replay and it appears that the deep, dark depression and withdrawal have not begun.
Keep the focus on you and allow her to continue to work on herself...be sure to what your finances closely.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
age-37-45 seems younger for woman like 37-40 40- 45 men
loosing weight wearing new style (younger) clothes a new car , motorcycle working out hair color change tattoos new sometimes younger friends or different type of friends sometimes choosing friends who party or reconecting with high school friends acting differently less responsible with the kids or animals going out a lot drinking, using substances gambling any new expensive items spending money more
you may see other signs but these seem to be a common thread among MLCers
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
That was very helpful and I definately appreciate your responses to my questions. I'm pretty sure it is mlc. I am working on myself and staying detached. I only speak to w when absolutely necassary.
I am seeing forward progress in her mlc though.
Here is why. First, there has been no angry spewing in months. She seems calm.
I see her reconnecting with the kids. In fact as I look at her relationship, I'm not sure she ever completely disconected from them. She acted very irrersponsibly but never completely turned her back on them.
I see her also talking to her pre mlc friends more. She has begun using a social media account that she stopped using when she entered replay. This is an acct that has her married last name (mine). My therapist says that's big.
Her online ea seems to be falling apart... At least publicly.
She has regained the weight she lost at the begining of replay and has stopped working out obsessively.
When she does go places with the kids she sends them back in to say goodbye to me if they haven't.
I know that the road ahead is still long and bumpy. I understand that and I respect your opinion. I'm just seeing these things happening consistently and I'm somewhat confused when everyone says she's still in replay.
Until the affair is completely over and she's actually working on herself, I would consider her to be in the last stages of replay. They go through a period of losing weight and acting out and then they begin to settle down a bit and start gaining the weight back.
I would continue as you have been and observe from afar. No pressure! Allow her to come to you and listen, be patient and listen some more.
You have to remember...we can only go by what you post, i.e., mentioning that the affair is still going on even though it appears to you to be falling apart.
Have you read the reconnection thread? If not, you may need to think about doing so. It will help you better understand what reconnection looks like. Here's the link:
Last edited by job; 07/01/1907:59 PM. Reason: added a link to another thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Faith, Keep us posted on what is happening. It is really tempting to look at the small details, but the best thing you can do is keep doing for yourself. As someone who has recently been through a similar scenario, watching the minutia will only come back and haunt you. If you end up back together these details may hurt you emotionally, especially if they are discussed. If you do not end up together you will hold more resentment and feel you got your hopes up and wasted your time. Keep the focus on you and the kids.
Lastly, CONGRATS on 90 days sober. That is no easy task. The health benefits will pay dividends in the future! If nothing else, that is a huge silver lining behind all of this.
I am proud of your sobriety. I am going through a similar time with my MCL wife who I believe is in the final stages of a 2 year + Replay. Stay your course.
Thanks everyone for your replies. They are very helpful. I wish I could post more but I am working 2 jobs and have very little time for anything but work and sleep. I am starting a new job next week that will hopefully allow me to leave my second job.
So it seems that wife's ea is not dying like I thought it was. It seems stronger than ever. They write poems to each other and I can judge by their responses to each other on how strong it is. Maybe what I saw a few weeks ago was the begining of the end. Who knows.
Wife seems to be cycling into anger again where just my presence makes her angry. I came home early yesterday to get some rest before going to job 2. She didn't like that so she called me a bunch of names and then left. I thought we were through this.
I have been doing dishes and she has been doing laundry. She hasn't done the laundry in a while though. It needs to get done. Should I just do everyone except her clothes or should I do hers too?
So it seems that wife's ea is not dying like I thought it was. It seems stronger than ever. They write poems to each other and I can judge by their responses to each other on how strong it is. Maybe what I saw a few weeks ago was the begining of the end. Who knows.
How do you know this? Are you reading her IMs/email etc? Snooping? Take is from me, this will lead to frustration and anxiety. I couldn't stop myself for the longest time. I still fall off the snooping wagon at regular intervals. This is when I feel the worst. I'm digging deep to break this cycle once and for all.
I hope that when you get your new job, you will be able to put more focus on YOU and your GAL activities. This will set you up to be a better partner if you R, or set you up to be in a really good place if you don't.
Sorry to hear all this. Whatever means you're using to discover the EA, please stop. It will only hurt you. The less you know the better. Cycling is "normal" for whatever normalcy this process has. The only advice here is to expect the unexpected. People will do things Hollywood writers could never imagine.
As far as chores go, read sandi's threads. There is excellent advice there. Personally, I became a servant to my wife, working 100 hours a week and doing everything possible around the house. She did not work outside the home and used the spare time to fire up the EA that eventually turned PA. Your W is out for herself only, so the acts of kindness you're doing will serve in her interests only. If it were me, I would do things for you and the kids and as little as possible for her. Make her work for the things she desires. She will likely try and make you feel guilty about it but you're hopefully tone deaf to the insults by now.
Please take care of yourself while working so much. There is adrenaline pumping now, but after a time it will run out and you will end up exhausted.
Thanks for helping me through this. I hope to be able to give back one day.
I just realized that I have never shared a complete timeline of events. Here goes. Probably going to miss a lot of details. I am soooo tired. I start my new ft job Monday. I'm hoping that I will be able to leave pt job very soon.
As I look back it is easy to see what was happening. In 2016 there started to be a lot of friction/tension between us. We had never really fought much before. I would say the sky was blue. She would say it was red. Around this time she also started to say things like she didn't want to be known just as our kid's mom. I didn't think anything of it. This is also the year we moved into our new house.
On New Year's day of 2017 we got together to set our goals like we usually do. She wouldn't tell me what her personal goals were for the year. That kind of bothered me. With the next several months she began to lose a lot of weight. She started buying new clothes. It was during this time that she also started spending hours in the bathroom. She was falling asleep.when we tried to spend family time with the kids. Her sex drive was really high so I wasn't complaining. In March of that year I did accidentally come across a fake social media account. I questioned her about it and she ran into the bathroom to delete it. I told her that since I didn't see the content, I needed to assume the worse. I forgave her. Also in this year she created a pen name and began to write. She said the pen name was because she wanted to be anonymous. She self published 3 poetry books this year. She kept telling me all of the lived themed ones were about me.
In the begining of 2018 she was spending a lot of time talking to some guy from another country in private chats. I know this because I was spying on her. We shared all of our user names and passwords. I did abuse that privalage. When I confronted her she blocked that user from her account. In March she began doing collaboration poems with a different guy. This is the guy who she is currently having an EA with. By March she told me she couldn't have sex with me. She told me she feels I took advantage of her. I persistently asked her for sex for several months. In July she said yes. She claims that I raped her. She was sexually abused as an 11 yo. Also, in July she went to visit her mom and step father (who is terminal). I brought her to the airport. She gave me a kiss before she left. That was the last time she ever kissed me. She came back from her mom's determined to get divorced. She was expecting me to just allow her to move to her mom's with the kids 3 weeks later. She continued to hug me for a while but eventually stopped when she began sleeping on the couch. Around September she began gaining her weight back.
Since then she has slowly eliminated me from every area of her life. She got a job working overnight in a bakery because I said that she wasn't doing anything to help the family financially. Around March of this year she started acting much calmer and even seeming remorseful at times. The last couple of weeks the anger at me has returned. The ea is ongoing. I created a fake acct to spy on her but I am not doing that anymore. Right now she spends most of her time sleeping, eating, watching TV or being on her phone.
I hope this information helps to clarify my story a little. Whatever insight can be offered is greatly appreciated.
You have pieced together a time frame and it is worthy for putting it all together but please don't use it to try and figure out her MLC stage. It will destroy your morale. Much of it sounds so familiar--distance, sleeping on the couch, etc... it is easy to see in hindsight but difficult to make sense of while it's happening.
Sexual abuse as a child plus seeing her step dad sick may have been the nidus for her MLC to soar. Has she been through counseling for that?
IMO, the best thing you can do is detach and show her a life without you.
I have snooped in the past as well. It is difficult to stop but you must stop completely if you haven't already. It will ruin you emotionally and some forms are illegal.
Given the information above, I would also suggest getting tested for STDs.
Congrats on your new job! You're making strides. Keep up the good work.
I am so sorry that you were hit right between the eyes yesterday. A lot of the MLCers do this surprise attack because they do not want to see us or hear what we have to say.
So, now that you've been served the papers, it's time to get all of your ducks in a row, even though this is not what you wanted. I would find a good lawyer and see what he/she has to say and go from there. Do not attempt to discuss the papers w/her at this time...allow your lawyer to handle the dirty work. If she attempts to discuss things w/you, do not make any promises of what you will or will not do...this is now a business deal that has gone completely south. You will need to put your business hat on and look at this as a business deal and leave your heart at the door when discussing the splitting of financial assets, etc.
Again, I am sorry, but not at all surprised at how she's handled the situation. We have seen quite a few of this surprise attacks over the years.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
As job said, this has now become a business deal. It is hard to grasp but you will now be under the microscope and must do everything to protect yourself emotionally and financially. Grab any documentation you have (loans, cars, house, birth certificates, banking, etc). Do not speak to her about anything regarding legal proceedings. She will try and sucker you in with tears and try to hook you emotionally. Stick to speaking in terms of visitation only, and do it via text or email.
It [censored], it will be draining and exhaust you. You must stay strong and please find an outlet so you do not start drinking again. kicking that habit took a lot of willpower and courage.
You will be OK. Life will go on and you will come out a stronger person. It will take time though.
Faith - , So sorry you were served in such a callous manner. That, to be truthful, is a nightmare of mine. I'm sure you are in shock. You have a period of time before you have to respond. I agree that it's time to get down to business and start outlining all your finances, get copies of any important documents, and meet with an attorney ASAP. You might want to pic 2 for this week and see which one you like best.
As hard as it is, don't snoop. It will only cloud your judgement for making well-thought-out decisions.
Keep taking care of yourself, Faith. That will help you get through.
Thank you to all who responded to my last post. I have had a very busy week. I started a new ft job while still working my PT job. I really like the new job and can't wait until health benefits start so I can leave the pt job.
I haven't seen anyone in my family all week. I have promised my kids that I will be home every night by the time they go back to school.
I will start calling attorney's starting Monday. I have been asking friends for referrals. I have a cousin who is an attorney. She would probably represent me for little to no cost. I'm just not sure if I want to involve her. I just don't want my relatives hating w if we reconcile. As of now no one knows about what is going on.
Lastly, w's step dad died 2 days ago. We had been sick for about 2 years. My w first started showing signs of replay about that time. When she first told me he died she began making plans to go for the funeral and to spend time with her mom. She made sure that I was available for the kids. I told her I would make myself available. I also told her I was available for her too. I told her that if she needed anything I would do it. She said thank you.
When I saw w today she told me that she decided not to go out to see her mom. She said that she didn't want to spend the money. Money is tight... It shouldn't be but it is. I didn't give her any advice. I just listened. I think she should go to see her mom. I will be quiet on that.
I am concerned though. I am feeling that if she doesn't go she is going to have another unresolved childhood issue. She has always had an issue when it came to dealing with death.
I also read somewhere that something like a death of a loved on can help to bring them back to reality and help push them through the tunnel.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. I am very thankful for everyone who is helping me!
Faith - a couple thoughts though forgive me for not knowing your full sitch. This is based only on your most recent post.
1) On W during this difficult time: I think it was good of you to validate and listen to her feelings during this incredibly difficult time. You're right to acknowledge how much this is affecting her. However, I'd be wary of trying to puzzle piece this tragedy into her own crisis or depression. Her step father's death may very well do NOTHING to "bring her back", and you should not set yourself up for disappointment by thinking that might happen. These things aren't so linear. A tragedy may have affected someone else's spouse on this board, but that in no way means it has anything to do with your own sitch. Just be careful with this thinking.
Regarding the funds, you know her sitch better than I. Is there any reasonable way for her to "make it work" financially? If you don't think it will harm her long term I don't think a GENTLE nudge or encouragement to tend to her mom is a bad thing. More like a suggestion, or just offering again to help out with the kids in any way that alleviates her stress. You are right that you can't make her attend. But in this situation an offer is appropriate IMO.
2) Regarding a family member being an attorney: If it's not too much of a strain for you financially I agree that a non-family member assisting you may be best long-term. Maybe not financially, but you're right that involving family can get messy in ways we don't anticipate. Maybe your new job offers an Employee Assistance Program through the benefits? Some of these offer free initial consults, which is a great way to start off working with an attorney and save a bit of money.
That certainly stings. But again, nothing surprising from a person in MLC. Landmark dates, holidays, etc... have absolutely no meaning to them during this time. She is in a teenage mindset and it may just be a way of acting out to get back at you. Remember, in her mind you caused all of this because she has suppressed her inner demons and projected them onto you. In reality you didn't cause any of it. Remember that throughout this process, because you are nowhere close to the end. These scars will eventually help you to become a much stronger person. Stay strong and keep doing as you are doing.
That certainly stings. But again, nothing surprising from a person in MLC. Landmark dates, holidays, etc... have absolutely no meaning to them during this time. She is in a teenage mindset and it may just be a way of acting out to get back at you. Remember, in her mind you caused all of this because she has suppressed her inner demons and projected them onto you. In reality you didn't cause any of it. Remember that throughout this process, because you are nowhere close to the end. These scars will eventually help you to become a much stronger person. Stay strong and keep doing as you are doing.
So I went to the court house Friday to get some information on what I need to do. The court clerk told me that the case was never filed with them. It doesn't exist. Not sure what that means except maybe she is having second thoughts.
The case not being filed could mean one of three things: either the lawyer hasn't had the time to file or he/she is out of town and will file when they get paid or have the time to file; and/ or your wife has requested that it be held in the lawyer's office until further notice. Whatever the reason, continue moving forward.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I agree with job. Most of us have been in your shoes. I went through this thing recently and did an early reconciliation. It was catastrophic. The children and I relived the horror of breakup twice. Everyone wants their situation to be different; I did too. Truth is, until you see months-years of consistent behaviors and clarity, this is nowhere close to an end. You may see brief moments of niceness and clarity, but they are only self-serving for her. My W did something similar to yours--pausing during any legal proceeding. A few weeks later I was in court because her attorney hadn't been paid and I was sued for her Atty fees. You must stop letting your mind wander and head your own direction--without her. Its hard to hear, but you will keep hurting yourself if you don't.
Hi everyone. It's been a while since I've been on the thread. I have been living life... Working 2 jobs, trying to spend time with my kids, etc. The jobs are really taking up most of my time. I'm hoping to leave the PT job soon. I am also coming up on 7 months of sobriety. I hope to be able to spend more time on the forums soon.
Anyways, today I'm looking for some advice, insight, etc.
Just to give a quick recap, my wife has been in replay for over 2 years. She stopped being mean and nasty to me about 8 months ago. She seems much more settled over the last few months. She even seems calm. It is also very obvious that she is dealing with bouts of deep depression. She did file for divorce in July. I almost get the feeling that she is reconsidering that. I find that she is glancing at me when I don't think she is looking. She is also helping more with the household chores. Last Friday we talked. It was the first meaningful conversation that we've had in over a year. We didn't accomplish much but it was nice to talk. She told me of all of my past mistakes and I just let her talk. It almost seemed like she was opening up the door to reconciliation.
I want to believe that she is starting to consider reconnection. The only problem is that her online ea partner is still in the picture do I know it can't be reconnection. The ea doesn't seem as if it is as active as it once was. They are not making as many public comments to each other as they used too. At this point I still know the ea to be online only because he lives in another country. There is still no evidence of a pa.
My questions are: is it possible for her to be coming out of replay, even when the ea is still going on?
Could she be trying to reconnect?
Does anyone have experience with online ea? How long do they last? Do they end quickly or slowly?
Any other insight, as always, is greatly appreciated.
As long as the EA is still in the picture, I would consider her still in replay. EA's are more difficult to break because they invest more of their emotional energy outside their marriage but also receive emotional support and companionship from the new relationship. The affair can last 6 months, two years or longer, but it depends on the dynamics of the parties involved. I am going to suggest that you may want to do some research on the net and look up emotional affairs to get a better understanding of why they are called "affairs of the heart". The affair, whether it is physical or emotional, has to die a death on its own and usually it is a slow one.
Her behavior sounds like she's settling down quite a bit and considers you a "safe" place to land, i.e., friend. You will see that many of the MLCers will settle down once the anger is gone and just as long as you don't rock the boat or put pressure on her, she will remain friendly and have many moments of clarity along the way. In fact, they can become very friendly and people tend to jump to the conclusion that they are actually doing the major reconnecting. Unfortunately, that is not the case in many instances. Until the affair partner is gone, true reconnection will not take place.
I did notice that she's still pointing the finger at you for all of your past mistakes. This is still her way of justifying why she's doing or has done what she did. I'm glad you listened and are keeping the door ajar for her.
One last thing, true reconnection will work in reverse of how she entered the crisis. You will be the last person that she actually reconnects with. She will reconnect with family, friends, co-workers and begin to slowly reconnect with you.
I would suggest that you continue as you have been and show her that you are the prize. Show her that you and your home are safe places to land.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
There were a few other things I forgot to mention.
The first thing is that my doctor put me on 2 medications before I stopped drinking. One for high blood pressure and one for high blood sugar. I don't need the meds anymore since I stopped drinking. She told me she found the meds and looked up what they were for. She said she was concerned about my health because she wants the kids to have a father. Unfortunately she also found Viagra that I have been experimenting with for Ed. I haven't been with anyone. I am just trying to find the right med so one day if my marriage is restored... Well I think you get the idea. She made a comment about finding that. I told her why it was there. I'm not sure if she believed me.
Also about 2 weeks ago she told me that she found the interior light of my car on so she shut it off. She said she didn't want the battery to die.
Congrats on kicking the drinking habit. That's a feat in itself. Make sure to take those meds if you still need them. Both hypertension and diabetes can take a toll on your body.
Regarding her: she will have moments of clarity, especially if the drama between you two is at a standstill. You are her plan B, and she will reach out to keep you hooked. As for the car: best case--she is genuinely concerned. Worst case--she was snooping through it and had a ready-made excuse in case you found out. Keep your guard up and do not trust much of what she says.
Lastly, the phrase "I don't know if she believed me" should be erased from your vocabulary. Let her mind wander and always say less than necessary.
Continue as you have been. There is no rhyme or reason to their behavior. Sometimes they will do a good deed and that is when you need to recognize that deed and thank them. Other times, well...they can be 2 year olds having tantrums.
Try not to over analyze her every word or action. It will drive you nuts if you do this.
Dig deeper for patience and keep the focus on you and your family.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Congratulations on the reduction of needed medication. It’s nice when we see our healthy choices paying off.
Your wife is in crisis, confused and depressed.
You’re not sure she believes you - don’t sweat it. She’s not even sure she believes herself. Back and forth she’ll wavier and ping pong about. One moment she cares about your health, the next she won’t. She’ll worry the car battery will die, help with housework, then go back into the tunnel and be seemly uncaring again.
Keep doing your own thing. She needs space and time. She is trying to figure her stuff out. Remember this is about her, not you.
When she does something nice like telling you about the interior light she shut off - thank her and agree that she saved the battery from going dead.
When she doesn’t believe why you have Viagra - “I’m sorry you feel that way, but I’m telling you the truth”. Validate her concern, and you can mention that you are telling her the truth. She may listen, she may not; either way you need not explain nor defend too often. That just leads to arguing, and you cannot change her mind, only she can.
You are doing well.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ and all who have posted recently, I have sent a notification to Virginia that there appears to be an issue with postings showing up on certain threads. One of those threads is this one. Hopefully, the problem will be corrected soon.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
FYI job if I click on "all" in the list of posts instead of on the name of the thread or a page number the posts show up.
Reply: You should not have to click on "all" in order to have all of the posts show up. You should be able to click on a page number and see the postings on that particular page, i.e., generally the very last page where the new responses are. Virginia will have this looked into, but it is the weekend and the administrators may be off and will look at my email in the morning.
Last edited by job; 11/04/1912:04 AM. Reason: job added a response.
So today is the first court date in our divorce case. She did not agree to the parenting plan my attorney proposed. We were suggesting that we keep everything as is for now. Both living in marital home with kids. Apparently she has had an apartment since July. That explains where the mortgage money has been going.
She wants to move there with the kids. This brings up a lot of confusion for me. If she is in mlc why does she want the kids around? Is she reconnecting with them?
She has been so calm recently I thought that she was not going to pursue D.
I do see signs of her trying to reconnect. I spoke to my attorney about this and he said that we can stretch out D for up to a year in hopes that she will be towards end of mlc.
I really do think she is at the end of replay though. She is so calm and has been for months. She texted me the other day to see if I could pick up stuff from the store for her. The online ea is still around so I know she is still in replay.
I know every mlc is different but I'm hoping she moves beyond replay before D is final. If anyone has had a similar experience please share.
When you have a moment, please try clicking on one of your pages so that we know whether or not your thread is okay.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I had a good day in court yesterday. Wife wanted to move out with kids. Kids stay in marital home until further notice.
Wife must give up apartment and use that money to contribute to family finances.
Her finances are going to be audited. Any money she may have stashed for her exit plan must be brought back to use on family expenses.
When I finally got home last night from my part time job wife spewed a little about how I make too much noise when she was sleeping. I told her that I didn't know it bothered her. I said I would do a better job.
Hopefully yesterday was a wake-up call. She's not going to be able to have her way.
WOW. Wherever you live is nothing like where I live. All anyone cares about here is protecting the man's right to his asset. At least my judge and many of the judges here. Some of the judges here do care about the kids and status quo for them but my judge doesn't care about the kids at all and has never listened to a thing about them. My H has not had to give me a penny or contribute in any way; I have had to pay him every month to keep him out of the house and continue to pay all carrying costs of our debt and mortgage (via rentals and my own wages) and it didn't even all count toward the future settlement. I am a cancer survivor with six jobs and my H works only 6 hours a week for YEARS, has an OW this whole time who is now leaving her H but my judge did not care about the story unless we went to trial. I remember on the first conference, I was pro se, and I said I didn't believe in divorce but either way wanted to first discuss the children and she screamed at me to grow up and sell my house and stop talking about the children unless I had the money to pay for an attorney for them. I am so jealous of you for the judge you have!!!!! You are very lucky.
Just be careful about thinking that anything you do can change this. I see that you are often trying to calculate the effect of your actions. That will never work. You are doing a great job being kind to her and living life but you are still inside the mirrored box I was in for many years, where you secretly think that unlike all the stories you read here, you can figure out which of your actions will result in which of her actions. That is never going to be a consistent thing and will drive you insane. Believe me. Or skim through my threads from my early days! I do not regret anything I did, or most of it, because I am still trying to become who God wants me to be, and that doesn't always align perfectly with DB. But I do wish I had been able to let go of him more fully; I ended up waiting many years trying to be a good wife, until he became so evil that there was no way to hold on to him anymore. It is so clear to me now that all that I read here is right, that you have to let them go completely, and know that even a D does not mean the end forever, it's just the business side.
Last edited by Gerda; 11/06/1902:25 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
I live in CT. Luckily the needs of the kids are a big concern in most d's.
Also, a relative is my attorney. She is making sure my kids are protected.
Rn I feel I have completely let go of W. I continue to hold out hope that she will come around before D is finalized which will be at some point in August of 2020.
I know that she is still in replay but her reaction to having her plans basically crushed yesterday was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I am seeing signs of the first awakening. Ea is still in picture so I know she's not there yet.
One of the things I'm learning as I work the 12 steps of recovery is that I can only live one day at a time. I try to do that. Also, God has already proven that the more I trust and depend on Him the better my life becomes.
I feel I have completely let go of W. I continue to hold out hope that she will come around before D is finalized which will be at some point in August of 2020.
This is good.
Continue to let go.
It is good to have hope. Please be careful with expectations - hope with a time frame or deadline. Have hope that she will come around. That’s it. Her hopeful awakening needs to not be tied to August 2020. Keep expectations at zero.
If you are hoping for something to happen by August 2020. As you get closer and closer; and if you haven’t seen the progress you expected, resentment will start to build more and more. That will snuff out your hope and have a detrimental affect on any positive that may have been happening unnoticed.
You have the gift of time, use it wisely. Leave the unknown future to be revealed as it happens. August is a ways off, and lots is possible between now and then. I wouldn’t expect a D either. Be prepared for sure, just remember lots could happen; and there are plenty of stories of the MLCer dropping the divorce.
Originally Posted by Faith4fu
One of the things I'm learning as I work the 12 steps of recovery is that I can only live one day at a time. I try to do that. Also, God has already proven that the more I trust and depend on Him the better my life becomes.
Nice to read.
Have faith and stay strong. You got this.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Your explanation of hope vs expectations makes sense. I will try to stick with hope.
She didn't go to work last night so she was at the house in the morning. We were both doing stuff in the kitchen at the same time. We didn't say anything to each other but we stayed out of each other's way.
I continue to try and do nice things for her without over doing it. My aa sponser tells me to be careful with the kind gestures. They may be taken as me trying to rub her face in what happened at court on Tues.
Also, I am still wearing my ring. Should I continue too?
I’m glad the hope/expectations idea resonates with you. I wrote a bigger post somewhere in my past thread, this just the surface. I could probably find a link if you liked; there is a lot to sort through.
As for wedding ring. It’s a personal decision with no clear and best way.
Wearing it could show you’re ok with being plan B. It could also indicate that you are ok with her behaviour. Removing ring lets her taste some feelings of you letting go.
Point is those are attempting to influence her thoughts and feelings. She is irrational and you cannot predict her response, and her response will change anyhow - sometimes hour to hour or quicker.
Decide on the ring based on your feelings and wants.
I know you are looking for advice, I’ve been there. Know that whatever you do won’t have much affect on her.
I would, and did, remove the ring. Pushing back denial and letting go are big steps along the LBS path, this can help.
You can still stand, care, and be kind and compassionate without wearing a ring. And if decide to continue to wear your ring (or put it back on) that is totally fine too.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I just wanted to share some updates from the past week. I got a new job. It's still b2b sales but my territory is much closer to home. I will be able to spend more time with the kids. Also, I am talking to supervisor at PT job about cutting back hours I January and still being able to get health ins. Things seem to have taken a positive turn financially.
I'm still very confused about w's calmness. Her plans for the immediate future were crushed this past week. I thought this was going to lead to unending angry spewing. It's actually weird.
I'm still confused about why she wanted custody of the kids unless she has started reconnecting with them. Ea is still in picture... Can she be trying to reconnect with them?
She made her homemade Mac and cheese... She knows that is my favorite food.
I'm still debating whether to take my ring off.
Thank you all for your support. I hope to be able to give back one day.
Nice to hear about your new job, and being closer to home.
It is strange when the MLCer becomes calm. W could be silently stewing about something, could be actually processing some thoughts, could be regrouping after a crushing defeat, or any other of many theories. Do what you’ve been doing and let her be and keep moving forward. Behave like a nice roommate and keep keeping things civil.
I also discovered this past weekend that w is listening to sermons from a church she used to attend before we met. The sermons are a step in the right direction I think. Just a year to 6 months ago she was cursing God for all the bad things He had done to her.
I know that I have to GAL and stop paying attention to all of these little signs. I have been living my own life I'm just wondering what reconnection is going to look like. I don't want to be so busy doing my own thing that I completely miss attempts at reconnection.
It is not surprising she hasn’t got her required paperwork together. MLCer have minds like Swiss cheese, full of holes. They start and stop things, remember then forget, and seem to live in their past; stuck and hopefully working through whatever they need too.
And yes, money is an issue. They usually are terrible at managing money. Imagine a 15 year old trying to run the life of an adult - bills, mortgage, car loan, insurance, electricity, phone, TV, heat, etc... Then add on employment, and the desire to not work because life is passing them by and they want to have fun not be stuck 9-5.
My XW quit two permanent jobs at the hospital, jobs with benefits, pension, security, and so on - things that aren’t important when one is a teenager and going to live forever. She actually used the reason for quitting because she wanted to be able to come and go as she pleased, do other things when she felt like it, so she took up mowing grass, just like a teenager. Even applied at the student job bank and took over most of the town contracts. Hardly anything left for real teens looking for a few bucks.
I wouldn’t get to worried about missing her possible attempts at reconciliation. Like everything else it has starts and stops, touch and go encounters. True reconciliation, the time she is really ready, you won’t miss.
Walk your path, leave her to her’s. Be kind and keep the lines of communication open. She will have a safe place to land and, if it is to be, she will reach back to you.
Did you compliment her on dinner? Pretty sure you would. Being kind and giving small bits of sincere acknowledgement of her actions is a good thing. No pressure, not attempting to change her, just praise for a good thing. And of course don’t over do it.
You are doing well.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
In the next 24-36 hours we are expecting up to a foot of snow and a quarter inch of frozen rain. No problem. I live in New England.
Here is my confilict. I am in AA and I'm also a LBS.
W goes into work for 11 PM and works overnight.
Before mlc I would either plull W's car into garage and/ or make sure it was clean of snow and ice and make sure it was warmed up for her before she left.
Several months ago she told me that she doesn't want my help in any possible way. She said she can do all of her own stuff.
As an active member of AA I need to keep my side of the street clean and do good things for other people without worrying about myself.
My AA sponsor is a great guy but does not understand AA. His suggestion is to either do what I have always done and take care of her car or ask her if she wants me too. That is great advice if there was no mlc.
So should I take car of the car or let her get a glimpse of life without me. I'm pretty sure she won't realize how long it takes to chip ice off of a car windshield.
I think I’d ask her if she’d like you to do it. I know she said she didn’t want your help months ago, but that wasn’t in the midst of a storm, was it? By asking, she has a chance to say no if she’s still adamant (in which case you just say a cheery “ok” and go back to whatever you were doing) or she’ll say yes and you’ll have a chance to remind her how thoughtful you can be.
I wouldn’t do it without asking though. She might interpret that as you not taking her seriously.
Ask her to see what she would like. You can’t read minds and she might have changed her’s since a month ago. Of course she might not have either.
“Wow, there is a lot of ice out there. I’m cleaning off my car. Would you like me to clean your’s as well.”
This allows her to have her say. And you follow it. If she says yes - don’t expect a thank you.
If she says no, that’s fine. Happily go about your day.
You have given her the choice. I’ve watched my four stubborn teenagers all grow through things like this. They need to struggle and rebel, and part of that is turning down an offer and finding out how much work is involved. It is also realizing that they can do it, and that struggling and stubbornness does achieve results. It’s a step towards independence. It’s growth.
It will be interesting to see where she is and what she will do with you offer.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So interesting about your AA mentor. It reminds me of the conflict I always feel between following Christ and following the advice I get here. So I guess it all goes back to why you are or aren't doing anything -- e.g., to please God (and/or follow the AA Way) or to change W. The latter is impossible, and the former is the most important thing. But sometimes I realize now, the most loving thing we can do for our spouse is stop doing for them.
In my case as I stopped doing things, I don't know if it affected H or just increased his vehement assertion that I never knew how to be a wife. I always loved doing his laundry and I did it off and on even after he filed because it was the only nice thing I could ever do for him. I didn't do it to change him. I did it to try to practice humility and God's love. But sometimes I couldn't bear to do it and I didn't. And I never expected any response from him about it. Sometimes he even would criticize the way I washed or folded or say I shrank something! What a jerk! But that's his journey and his relationship with God, I have my own.
I don't know if that helps. But I would say in your effort to figure this out, you shouldn't leave the car outside and then have MORE work than usual chipping at the ice you could have avoided by moving it inside as you usually do! So I would offer to move the car inside before the storm, and if she says no, she can chip all that ice herself. Maybe she can even chip away at the ice in her heart? : ) This might help you envision it, it's where my screen name comes from -- Final chapter of "The Snow Queen."
Last edited by job; 12/01/1907:46 PM. Reason: Removed link to another site not related to DB
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Since your wife has stated that she wants to do things for herself, I would ask her if she would like for you to take care of her car for her since it is snowing. This gives her the option to say yes or no. If she says no, let it go because it will be on her to take care of the cleaning, etc.
I'm sure if you had a friend in a similar situation that you would ask them before taking care of the car. Just because she's acting out, doesn't mean that you don't care about her. It's her behavior that you don't like. Be a friend if you can and just ask her. Keep those expectations at zero!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Wow Gerda. That was amazing. Thanks. So, I asked her and she said she would take care of her car herself. Problem solved. I will still get out there to shovel before she leaves. I like to shovel before snow get driven over. I didn't go to gym in anticipation of shoveling.
On a different note we got our Christmas tree yesterday. While talking to w about car I asked if she wanted to help decorate. After some back and forth she said she wanted to help. Sensed a lot of self pity though.
