Dating before D, centralized discussion

[SteveLW]

Did glad to see you healthy and happy and moving forward. I still think you should have waited until after D to start dating, but I realize that I am old-fashioned and modern society doesn't see it that way. But otherwise, very happy for you.

I still think you should have waited until after D to start dating, but I realize that I am old-fashioned and modern society doesn't see it that way.

That sadly may be true. However, the modern professional community of counsellors and therapists thankfully still do. I'm always very surprised to see the number of people who bounce so quickly to a new R - often with the first or second person they date. hopefully it works out.

I appreciate the respectful tone of your messages. However, ultimately I think the decision to date or not to date while separated is a personal one. Especially in the case of a LBS, the MR is generally over and done with even if the paperwork hasn't been (or can't be completed.) I don't see the benefit in passing judgement on people who are doing the best they can to move on with their lives.

Did, congrats on getting to such a good place. It's been a quite ride following your sitch, and I'm happy to see you end up where you are!

I appreciate the respectful tone of your messages. However, ultimately I think the decision to date or not to date while separated is a personal one. Especially in the case of a LBS, the MR is generally over and done with even if the paperwork hasn't been (or can't be completed.) I don't see the benefit in passing judgement on people who are doing the best they can to move on with their lives.

Did, congrats on getting to such a good place. It's been a quite ride following your sitch, and I'm happy to see you end up where you are!

Davide, while I agree with you and do not believe this should be mandated to the individual in any way, I have been around for nearly 50 years now and can tell you that the wrong decision can backfire. When Did's D4 is 18, and his W tells her "your dad and step-mom were together before we were divorced" he won't be able to refute that. I've seen it happen.

I did not date until my D was final and I can look both of my daughters in the eye and tell them that I never cheated on their mom and I honored my vows until the end. On a personal level I healed on my own and did not seek out another person to help get me through it with validation.

To each their own however for me it goes against my core values.

This is going to fall on deaf ears but I’ll give it a shot.

Your timeline indicates you began dating this woman early February, entered a “committed relationship” mid feb, and before you even leave feb she is involved in your 4 year olds daughter’s life and you are introducing her to your current wife?

You don’t see a problem with this?

Date all you want before technical divorce. For your own personal growth a committed relationship after a few dates isn’t healthy but it is what it is.

But I encourage you to think twice about the involvent of your four year old daughter with another woman you’ve known for a month while going through a divorce . I urge you.

In 11 years I’ve inteoduced d my daughter to 3 guys. All years after divorce. One I regret. I did it soon only because she knew him already. But I shouldn’t have had us spend so much together. Because it ended in 3 months. There one day, gone tomorrow.

I’ve been dating my boyfriend for 6 months and when we really got to know each other and saw a future, we then autiously decided to introduce our kids 2 weeks ago.


You have he added transition of actively going through a divorce.

It should be one step at a time for you, but if not that, at least for her

[SteveLW]

Thought I would pull this out of Did's thread. It is a common question. It is a very personal decision but LBSs should consider it carefully with both eyes open.

As the vets here say, DO NOT DATE AS A WAY TO HEAL FROM YOUR BROKEN MARRIAGE. This just continues your codependent cycle. Get happy alone first, then go out and date. Preferably after D.

For those with kids, are are some sobering statistics:

Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological parents, according to a study of Missouri data published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.
Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.
Girls whose parents divorce face significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University.

If you are a parent LBS, something to consider.

[SteveLW]

I knew I would stir up a hornet's nest with my comment. (Sorry for the hijack Did)

There is a certain holier-than-thou tinge to stating that everyone is free to do what they want even though it goes against your core values. You don't need to sit in judgement of others' actions in order to feel righteous in your own.

I agree that a LBS needs to heal on their own, and it is not healthy to use another person to do that. That's not a moral judgement, but rather a practical one. It's also irrelevant to the question of dating while separated.

That said, I would agree that I would proceed with caution before introducing D4 to another woman. One month is not enough time to know where a relationship is going. I am dating a woman with a three year old. We have been seeing each other for a month and there has been no talk about me spending time with the child yet (there is no father in the picture it was IVF.) She doesn't want to introduce someone who might not be there long term into his life. And that is without the complication of an ex or a divorce.

Davide, I cannot help if expressing my core values makes another feel judged. I am sure there things I do that would be against your core values. Again, I am not trying to force my core values on anyone. However, when you have children one day THEIR core values my judge you. And I believe they have that right.

[Davide]

As the vets here say, DO NOT DATE AS A WAY TO HEAL FROM YOUR BROKEN MARRIAGE. This just continues your codependent cycle. Get happy alone first, then go out and date. Preferably after D.

This 100% It has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with learning to love yourself and live independently. Using a new R to fill your holes or fix yourself simply does not work.

For those with kids, are are some sobering statistics:

Quote
Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological parents, according to a study of Missouri data published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.
Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.
Girls whose parents divorce face significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University.


If you are a parent LBS, something to consider.

Steve, I fail to see how this addresses the dating question. If the MR is dead and buried, as it is in the majority of the cases here, then the LBS is left only with the two options in bold - forming a new "stepfamily" or living as a "single parent." Obviously, most of us are here to try to save the MR, and that is an admirable goal. However, most of us learn sooner or later that we have to save ourselves, and have to let go of the MR.

[SteveLW]

Davide, agreed. I was just sharing the statistics based on studies related to broken homes and children. I hope that thinking about this will make LBSs take pause about jumping too quickly to a new person when the MR dissolves or begins to dissolve. Too quickly being the operative phrase.

And this goes back to what DonH said. I think this is why the professional community advocates waiting until D. One person giving up their vows puts the MR in jeopardy. The LBS giving up their vows pretty much cements it. As long as one person is trying there is always hope, no matter how slim it may appear.

[SoTorn]

I posted in the other thread.

This is my personal opinion. I have also discussed this in depth with my mom who is very religious.

When your spouse cheats, they are tossing their values, morals and marriage vows in the trash. That being said, the Bible states that if your spouse cheats you are under no obligation to uphold the vows and can divorce. If you are in a state that doesn't have laws against it, there is nothing morally, religiously or legally wrong with dating someone when you are separated. A marriage doesn't work with just one spouse upholding the vows. Why would you uphold your vows for someone who doesn't care?

I can agree that finding someone just to use them for intimacy and as a "revenge cheat" is absolutely horrible and shouldn't be done. But if you are absolutely done with your marriage and want no part of R with your WS, then you should be free to do what you want when you want with whom you want. I think that people need to apply what they learn with DB to everything else in their life. You don't control other people and if what another person does doesn't affect you, then why do you care what they do? Who are you to judge what another person does or how they react when their spouse cheats on them? If someone wants to wait years and years and uphold their vows in a marriage that has already failed, just hoping that one day their spouse will stop cheating on them and come back, more power to them. Everyone's personal decision is their own decision to deal with.

That being said, I have met a wonderful younger woman who, although I wasn't planning on it, I have taken a real liking to. Of course I am approaching the new relationship very slowly and have set some major boundaries for myself. One thing that meeting this woman has helped me with is the understanding that there are millions of other people that are in this world that are more than happy to treat you like you are appreciated, understand your value and will never take you for granted.

In my experience meeting this woman has shown me that the way I was treated for years and years was absolutely horrible. I am thoroughly enjoying my limited time that I get to spend with this new, wonderful person. I am done with my WW. Cheating is a 100% deal breaker for me. There is no way that I could ever feel the same way about my WW much less love a person that thinks its OK to put me through the level of hurt that she did. So I moved on and I am VERY happy that I have done so.

Of course my situation is different. I had already recognized a lot of stuff that I needed to change several years ago and I made a significant effort to do that. I addressed all of my demons and even though I did that and completely changed my behavior and tried to show my WW that I valued and appreciated her, she had turned her eyes the other way and found someone else. She can have OM, because she no longer has me, my love, my support or my convenience. I don't care what she does with her life because it will no longer involve me.

[AnotherStander]

Well I don't pass judgment on anyone here for dating before D, but I will just say that my personal experience was that I thought I was ready to date long before I actually was. I started dating maybe a year after BD thinking I had gotten over my ex and was healed and ready for a new R. But many things about our situations do not truly become clear to us until much later. With the benefit of hindsight I can see now I wasn't ready and it slowed down my healing and progression.

If I could go back and do it again I would have waited another year, so 2 years after BD. That may seem like a long time but I was with my ex for nearly 25 years- most of my adult life. And going back to dating from there is very tricky business. Your mind is hardwired to this person, when you date it just feels wrong at first. Like you are the one having an affair. Maybe people who have been married for 5 years or less can adapt quicker, but if you're coming out of a long-term marriage it is a very difficult, emotional transition. It is not something to be rushed or taken lightly.

DB'ing is all about patience. When in doubt, do nothing. That applies to dating too, if you are 90% sure you are ready to date then you aren't. If you are 100% sure then you probably still aren't ready. Be patient and give YOURSELF the gift of time just as you give it to your spouse.

[SoTorn]

I can see how everyone feels differently. I was with my WW for 21 years. Her cheating on me dininished all of the love I had for her. I thought deeply before I accepted the invitation from this woman. Also, its a long distance relationship so I honestly dont spend a ton of time with her.

That helps me with my boundaries. I find it very nice to have support from someone while getting through D. I didn't plan this. I was just friends with this woman. But we get along very well and have a ton of like interests. I would have still moved for D regardless. My WW is never going to change. She cant even recognize that what she did and keeps doing is wrong. So she can live her life without me. Thats better for both of us.

[bubbs16]

Well I don't pass judgment on anyone here for dating before D, but I will just say that my personal experience was that I thought I was ready to date long before I actually was. I started dating maybe a year after BD thinking I had gotten over my ex and was healed and ready for a new R. But many things about our situations do not truly become clear to us until much later. With the benefit of hindsight I can see now I wasn't ready and it slowed down my healing and progression.

If I could go back and do it again I would have waited another year, so 2 years after BD. That may seem like a long time but I was with my ex for nearly 25 years- most of my adult life. And going back to dating from there is very tricky business. Your mind is hardwired to this person, when you date it just feels wrong at first. Like you are the one having an affair. Maybe people who have been married for 5 years or less can adapt quicker, but if you're coming out of a long-term marriage it is a very difficult, emotional transition. It is not something to be rushed or taken lightly.

DB'ing is all about patience. When in doubt, do nothing. That applies to dating too, if you are 90% sure you are ready to date then you aren't. If you are 100% sure then you probably still aren't ready. Be patient and give YOURSELF the gift of time just as you give it to your spouse.

that seems more logical time but also scares me deeply. I am only a few months post BD almost 3 now. But i know im at 0% right now . It hurts to know that it will probably be a year + easy before id ever feel comfortable dating again. It really does suck to go through, but we are all going through it or went through it already . I dont have 25 years but 17 under my belt so its going to take awhile.

[Ready2Change]

I tell my children (16/16/18/19) to date lots of people. They all want the "boyfriend" or "Girlfriend". One boy, one date, and now they are boyfriend/girlfriend. I just don't get it.


As for the married people here, I recommend getting happy "alone" first. Go do things and enjoy other people in group settings. Interact with everyone and maintain your personal boundaries. There is a lot of temptation out their.
You will meet people that want to hook-up. There is plenty of time to date after the D is finalized. When you are comfortable and content being alone, you have healed and will attract much healthier people into your life. Date when you are ready. Date a lot of people. Be open to new things. Date 3 different people during the same week.


The real question is how do you seduce your spouse back (if that is your goal) without practicing new skills and crossing boundaries? It is very complicated.