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Adam,

IMO, I think your wife is with holding some of her actions. She might be ashamed or scared of the consequences, but she isn't telling you everything.

I don't know your W, but she seems to have some morality about herself, so she will not be upfront with the truth, because it's might be too embarrassing. But, IMO she would not just hide if she was just going too lunch with a guy. Believe half of what they say, don't forget.

I will give you my wife scenario.

So, I was BD at the beginning of July. My wife planned a trip to D.C at the end of July. Her sister was up there visiting friends. The OM lived up there as well. Before she left for that trip she had all the signs of being WW, I asked was she going up there to see him, she said NO. She went on the trip and came back and I asked did she see him, she told me no. She was adamant. Then in the middle of August she went on a Momcation up in Austin, it's what she called it, but it was a Meetup with the OM. The OM came down to where we lived for over a week and they met up all over the place. I didn't find out the truth until the end of August.

One night we were sitting in our bedroom together and her messenger went off, I got into her phone and there it was, all the proof and lies uncovered.

Then about 3 weeks later we were starting to kind of recon, she wanted me around, was calling me more, asking to watch movies and TV shows with me. One night we were watching a movie, and at this point she told me she was done talking to him, I got into her phone again, more lies. I had enough, it was around 3 in the morning. I woke her a$$ up, told her pack her things and get the f out. I had to find direct truth for her to be honest in both cases.

Then after we started to recon, I told her to be honest about what they did, she told me half of the things. I asked her specifics and she lied to me again. I had already had the proof. I presented it too her and I told her I'm tired of your lying, I can't take this. But the point being. Without specifics, she wasn't giving up the info.

Your W seems to be with holding info. And only you finding the proof will get that info out of her.

I will tell you, some of the things, I seen has caused a lot of issues with our recon. I flood with thoughts and I can't stand to be around her. I have walked out on her a few times because of them. I have also sat her down and we agreed if I cant get pass them, we will have to move on.

So, if you can live with the info you already have been presented, please move pass it, tell her you need complete transparency, and work on forgiveness. It has been a constant struggle for me
I wish, I didn't Snoop as hard as I did sometimes. But, life keeps moving forward.

Onward and upward.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Joejoe,

Thank you so much for sharing your story here. You nailed it with the way my wife is. She is too ashamed unless confronted with the truths. You are right she is withholding but to what degree I don’t know. We had a talk this evening about that timeframe and I told her if I Checked the phone logs against what she told me with his number what would I find and she said they had been talking shortly after like day after and a couple more times and that was it and it’s been near a year. What she told me and her mannerisms, the look, it’s a bit different from the other times when I sensed the lying. I know I can’t go on intuition alone but something in me believes what she said this time around. She said she will write the letter and make the no contact call if that’s what she needs to do. Although we won’t know where to send the letter. And it’s not a confirmed Affair. It could have been anyone or many people.

W said when I got BD, she was unhappy and looking for a way out but it wasn’t to be with a guy. She was unhappy for a while and she admitted that acceptIng a ride from a guy for lunch was sending the wrong signals. She said she is ashamed that I busted her for lying that day and it jaded what she said could have been a friendship at best but now they don’t communicate and when they did she said they left it to only business.

W told me today she was happy for me when she saw me making positive changes for myself and she liked the new me. I was a 350 pound guy who blew up in weight and I had medical problems. She admitted today that last year she spoke to her sister about her concern of losing me if I was to die. She had talked to me abandonment it my weight and asked me to get a handle because of my swollen legs and the high blood pressure and other medical issues and she said I didn’t care and I didn’t. There were some points I was unhappy and wanted to die. This Is the reality she shared with me. She said her sister told her what if I didn’t die and I had a heart stack, I could be paralyzed forever and be someone she may have to take care of and she remembers this is what also made her change her mind. She said she isn’t proud but was scared and angry that I didn’t care and she couldn’t see that life of taking care of someone who didn’t care about himself. I know it’s not an excuse.


I think tonight I felt good like this was a step in the right direction and could be just enough for me to try and move on from. After we talked about the past i asked her now what would be different. We talked about marital boundaries and she said she knows not to accept rides from any guys and if she could help it , someone else would be with her during these lunches.

There have been some times she wanted to make sure I was in a good place like one night when a text came in late I said something I think it was that I couldn’t sleep and she half asleep made sure I was okay. She showed me the text and it was of the sister in law up with the newborn baby sending texts and Snapchats since the baby was up.

A few times going through the phone and apps I didn’t find anything suspicious.

Wife also wants me to break the lease and move in but says she understands if I still need my space to keep the apartment.

For the no contact call or letter, does it make sense to use for this guy?

Tonight with my wife trying to explain the past and her feelings to me .... My W said she felt like she hit rock bottom when she was in the house alone and she no longer had her family. She said when we were in house seperated she still felt like I was still there. It kind of shocked me when she said she felt like hitting rock bottom. This person now I talk to, she is open to listen, she is concerned about what I say, she has been willing to do what I ask. She is still scared though of what I would and could do.

I know I can move on past this. I wonder if there is more I should try to find out or more that I need to wait for, to be more patient with not breaking the apartment lease with more to see from her.

I do love her enough to let her go, and I do love her and can forgive. Where I am at in these stages up to recon that I am not sure.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Adam,

The no contact letter is up too you. If you believe what you W is telling you, then move on. You don't have to follow every step verbatim. So, IMO, I would have my W write one and have it saved as an draft in an email. But I don't think not writing one would hurt. Because there's any contact to stop from happening.

My W told me she hit rock bottom, as well. That she was at the lowest she ever felt in her life. That, it wasn't about the OM, it could of been anybody, but he was familiar, and made her have feelings again. I lost alot of weight as well, but you got me beat homey. Great job on getting your health in order.

I started to let my W go before, I found this forum, well, I told her those words, after finding this forum, and listening to the advice on here, my W started to take notice. She told me she was getting jealous. She even told me the OM was getting upset with her because she kept talking about me. Funny how that works. After recon, I have seen my W break down in a uncontrollable panic attack, because of her choices and decisions. You'll process has just started. It will be some great days and some not so great days stay patient. Don't rush, the process. If you are not ready to break the lease, then don't, but don't use having the apartment as a threat or scared tactic. The moment you truly decide to forgive her, then the past belongs in the past.

I read a quote one day, that helped me process in my sitch, it goes, "forgiveness is the process of giving up the ability the change the past". We can't go back, and do anything different so dwelling and living in there only slows things down and hurt the healing process.

Onward and upward


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Adam, I think your reaction to her disclosure of the lie was appropriate. And I think you are right to be cautious, because like Joe pointed out usually when a WAS gets caught in a lie they will tell half-truths to "make peace" while keeping even more lies deeply buried. Your number 1 problem is going to be learning to trust her again, and she has to EARN that trust from you, not just expect it to happen. I think we talked about Retrouvaille before, I can't remember if you said you were considering it or not but it gives you some really great communication skills. It will help both of you to open up in ways you never thought possible, it could be just what you both need.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Great work Adam. Truly.

Take it from someone on the other side of things, where it's disintegrating into fragments due to W's decisions.

I see courage in and take comfort from your posts, you really are an inspiration for those of us doing the hard work to change.

Strength to you...! smile

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Joejoe, my wife had looked at info on writing the no contact letter yesterday. The reasons why, the purpose, the details. This wasn’t in front of me but it was up on her phone and search bar.

AS, yes retrouvaille is something wife has agreed to. She had agreed to,but I think this weekend and yesterday, last night was very damaging to the progress. I will try to explain.

My wife has said she was willing to take this lie detector test to put the cheating to rest but I said no a couple of times. I think we can rebuild trust without it. This would also pose a problem because I told her I thought D was off the table and we were all in to making this work. I asked her what if she did pass but more importantly what would happen if she didn’t. It would be a very awkward position because what would be the consequence for her lying or failing. And speaking of awkward , it has gotten there quickly.

Sunday night we were in a good spot. She said she was angry at me for bringing the boys into it. I validated and said I could see why she could be angry. I thought my older son deserved to know. I asked him if he needed to know and between him and me he said yes. Then when W and I was discussing it she said he told her he didn’t need to know so she thought it was me using him. I told her it wasn’t but I don’t think she believes me.

Right after she told me about what happened with this guy I had to take my boys to the barbers so they heard some of our discussion , which I tried to address with them. Because she wasn’t in the car I think she feels I was trying to put the blame on her and make her the villain in front of the boys when that’s not what I was doing. This was early Saturday. I did say that what happened was between mommy and daddy and we had an issue with not telling the truths so I took this as an opportunity to stress the importance of not lying.

So Monday morning she leaves to work, kisses me bye, and tells me she loves me as usual. I didn’t have a good sleep because of the freshness of finding out about this guy. She texts me in the morning while I’m at work and asks if I got any sleep and how my day was. This is where I thought I was going to be honest and tell her not so great and I was still dealing with what she told me. She said she was sorry. I dragged this convo on all day just talking about everything via text to us, the kids, recapping how she lied but swore she was with a larger group and her female friend before so what I thought was working to lean in trying to poke holes thru her story to see if she would come clean, it just made her how she is right now, hurt and angry.

W bday is today and in the texts she was adamant nothing happened emotionally or physically with this guy and she lied because I had already been accusing her of cheating and when she went out to lunch and I asked about her it was out of the blue and she thought I would accuse of her being with this guy. Like I was finding someone to blame for our problems and she didn’t know what I would do like go berserk and bring her down at work. W texted me to not do anything for her bday. No flowers nothin so I stopped that this morning. It flipped in a day. I believe I put too much pressure on her. I was talking about a transparency plan and going to retrovaille. All of which she said yes. I thought I was in control of my emotions and I was being vulnerable enough ... and no matter what we think we do right , it doesn’t always line up with their perceptions or beliefs.

Earlier during the weekend I had a huge dinner party for W birthday and it was a surprise. W enjoyed it. This was Friday. Saturday was when I got the “true story” that instead of her having lunch with her girlfriend and group it was two male clients. That’s when I had her tell my son, I left for the day and I came back that night. Went to church and tried to make amends Sunday and it just went right back into crazy mode via texts on Monday. She said this was draining and that she loves me and is trying but damn is it making her think she wants to from this. I told her several times before that if we come together and work on it, we would need to discuss finances again and this was serious because I am gambling living a very fragile lifestyle with the Boys in the apartment to splurging more because of the combined income. Well before I left to go back to the apartment I threw this in her face. I said I gave you so many outs to come clean about that day and you chose to keep it a secret. I told her about spending the money on the bday dinner and how extravagant it was. I sincerely regret that. I thought I was being practical but it sunk in later that this was for her so she took it more personally than me just saying this is extra I was spending and not so much this is extra I a, spending on -you- instead of saving for my kids. I felt like [censored] and I saw she did too.

Last night she asked me to leave the bed because she needed space. I told her I wasn’t leaving and I tried to talk to her and letting her know this was going to be hard and I wanted to listen to her to understand her side of it. She was tired and said she felt drained and defeated. She was still also bitter about the boys. She said she was upset when the little one told her Saturday night that daddy would still be here if you did not lie. I don’t know what more I could have done to shield them, teach them, and just keep them away from this. I believe she feels the same way also but we are on opposite ends and she is taking the blame for it and feels like crap.

One of the convo pieces with lunch with this guy was when I faced timed her that day, she went to the restroom and I asked her where her female friend was and she couldn’t get her. She went back to lunch for a few more hours and then came home. So in my texts to her Monday I said this was very Strange and didn’t add up and I wanted to know if there was more to this. So last night she said she could contact the guy and ask for a copy of the company expense report of his company has that for that day. She said her company has her scan in the actual receipts which usually has the date and time on it and this is what she could do. I said if you are going to contact him, you will need to do it in front of me. This got her nervous saying her work integrity would be on the line and anything related to work she is petrified could get her fired. Her work is everything and she is scared of anything wrong going on to lose her job. I offered a compromise to email him but to blind cc me But maybe I could have had her email from the laptop if she had it at home. Sometimes it’s at work.

Last night ended with her sleeping with the boys and it felt like it was going back to how it was with the in house separation. She said goodnight and that as transparency she said she was leavingher phone and watch in the room.

After she fell asleep upstairs I checked the phone and I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary except she saved a copy of a text I sent her on Saturday telling her she should tell our son what happened. In one of her family group texts all of Saturday texts were deleted but Sunday they picked up talking about what I had said and how it was wrong to bring the kids in and if she told me the truth and she feels so bad and I keep doggin her and can’t forgive her, then she can’t go on living like that.

She responded to them tha this is killing her because she doesn’t want to drag the kids thru this and she wishes I would understand and that this was too much for her. W has several family group texts at the top with her siblings joking and talking with the brothers. The text I read was only with the sisters and below all her work texts. I am not sure if she purposefully wanted me to read that but I am glad I did.

Oh and about the tracker find me app. I asked her to install that a while back and I asked her over the weekend if she had and she said she changed somethign and couldn’t get it to work. I thought she was kidding me, but I realized looking at her phone she changed her login to another email. This would seem strange at first but she did this because our 2 boys are on their iPads at home every day and their iPads halve her old email for FaceTime. So if I or Anyone FaceTime the boys she would get it on her phone too.

When she got up for work this morning I told her happy birthday and didn’t say much else. I also called the florist who was the call above her on the phone and I accidentally clicked her name fat fingered it and then I ended call immediately. Called the florist right after to cancel the delivery. She calls back and asks if I called. I decided to let her know I cancelled the flowers. That was something her sister in law shared with her when I asked for her company address. They were trying to see if I wanted to address since I am off today to go to her boss to talk about that day or to send flowers. Either way it was cringe worthy and I couldn’t believe how they saw me. I even told her and swore I wouldn’t sabotage her work and I was trying to save the marriage, I thought we both were.

I am pulling back. It seems like too much too fast. I couldn’t sleep last night. I think about her,this guy, it could be anyone and she even said that last night. She was because of the lie but that person could have been anyone and it would be the same, nothing happened. She said she knew I would have a problem and was looking to blame her so she lied and she regrets it. And the sad truth is that I was looking to place blame so this is hard for me.

I am pulling back and I will temporarily not mention anything about the guy, the R, recon, the letter. I am giving her a break. I looked at myself trying to see me thru her eyes and it’s so different. If what she says is true, her concern and love for the boys, to protect them from the harm I could cause, to protect herself from the harm I could cause at her work, and that she has been truthful to me she didn’t cheat but she did lie, and that it makes her feel defeated like I am still throwing it in her face, I feel she will walk out. Not only that... I feel there is pain , her pain. So I feel ashamed and apologetic but at the same time I need to stand tall and no be too emotional. I have been trying to go by what I think is the right thing to do to make this work, not in a selfish I want her/I need her , controlling, way. This last few days opening up about my emotions and showing her my doubts I think has scared her or made her really good at a front but I don’t think it is a front. I feel like I may need to tread lightly for a while. I told her I do believe I could trust her but it was a process. I can tell you she gets very emotional and fast and needs time to cool down to sort her feelings.

I have more time today to go into more detail I think of what transpired so apologies if a lot of this is overlapping.

I want to have another discussion with my wife to let her know I see it thru her eyes and i will work on the forgiveness and I also think I should just show her by not bringing it up for a while and letting her know I am not playing the blame game. I feel so bad because it seems that way. I don’t like this part of opening up and sharing because that focus does shift to me and sometimes it can sound a lot like me,me,me everything me. I also feel like I need to be careful not to pacify my W. She made a cokpmment like that, like she doesn’t want me to pacify her as we both are entitled to the way we feel and she understands my grieving process but at the same time I need to try and understand her side.

Going to end it here. There was a lot more I was feeling and some sort of doubt with W but nothing that comes to mind because my heart wants to believe her and forgive but my mind is slowly catching up, waiting for signs.

Oh this isn’t major but when it’s me and her, my W has said she doesn’t tell our business to her family like none of it through the months, but I know to believe nothing she says. So it looks like she came clean or they knew about this other guy and let us work it out. I don’t feel hurt by it because I know family rely on each other. It’s just that she feels like she has to lie to me for not getting their input because I tell her I am not speaking to people because of that very reason. And her siblings are here now so I will go out there and put on my best smile and GAL with my youngest boy who is awake. I asked if he wants to get mom a bday card and he said yes so that and Chuck E. Cheese here we come.

There are no guarantees. It’s hard work. I’ve told myself I am the one who okayed this shift from physical separation to starting recon and I am going to be patient and forgiving to both of us. Goodness did I make a lot of mistakes but that’s something I’m dealing with now.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Adam04 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by IronWill
Great work Adam. Truly.

Take it from someone on the other side of things, where it's disintegrating into fragments due to W's decisions.

I see courage in and take comfort from your posts, you really are an inspiration for those of us doing the hard work to change.

Strength to you...! smile



Thank you IW but as you can see, we falter. I am human and so is she. I had started with this mentality of wanting both sides to understand each other and right now I will shift that focus off of me and onto her.

I will say her boss is still in so much pain and I misspoke once when I tried to explain the boss’s cheating husband and his role as the walk away to her when it came to the no contact letter. It’s like trying to find when and where it’s appropriate to help support them in getting the info to better understand this so we can have some tools to use if not a better understanding.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Originally Posted by Adam04



Thank you IW but as you can see, we falter. I am human and so is she. I had started with this mentality of wanting both sides to understand each other and right now I will shift that focus off of me and onto her.


That's ok. I do too, and you are absolutely right, we are human. I can see now how far apart W and I are now and R seems like rainbows and unicorns at the moment for me/us.

Take a step back and breathe. Recon seems like it would be incredibly difficult - mostly because you both want it to work, and want the familiarity of what once was, but I would think so much has transpired in between that time that you have to take the small steps and inch forward one day at a time.

Quote

I will say her boss is still in so much pain and I misspoke once when I tried to explain the boss’s cheating husband and his role as the walk away to her when it came to the no contact letter. It’s like trying to find when and where it’s appropriate to help support them in getting the info to better understand this so we can have some tools to use if not a better understanding.


I haven't been up on the recent parts of your sit - mine has been falling apart quicker lately - but I see that you are committed to trying to work it out.

Keep strong, man - and take it one day at a time smile

Last edited by IronWill; 07/16/19 08:35 PM.
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Update.

W has come back to bed. We apologized and talked and she is now doing a 180. Last couple of days no ILY, only hugs in morning. We still text and have semi R talks. These talks are a bit painful but also a bit more honest I think. W said she just wants to work on her and doesn’t know where her head is. The other day she said she was going to seek professional help and tonight after she said she felt pressure from me she divulged she is seeing a counselor next week but didn’t want to tell me. She is saying she can’t make any promises about our future but knows she needs to work on herself first. She now is saying I am pressuring her, she feels like I am trying to control what she needs to do like when I made suggestions about steps to take for recon. She said she resents the transparency and thought it only meant looking through her phone if she was there too. So she has flipped hard. She is trying to figure out if she is doing this for the boys or us. I told her I will be patient and understanding and thanked her for being able to tell me her feelings. I asked why the change and she’s not sure. She said since she was living a lie she felt like she had to listen to the stuff I was saying because it was some type of punishment. She felt like I was lecturing her because I was already down this path to figuring it out and she didn’t need my help or suggestions.

She’s showing signs of flipping back to having one foot out the door but this person is willing to speak to a counselor for help and is still agreeing to visibility and looking thru her phone, going thru the call log from the past convo we had to see if this guy’s phone number would come up more than when she said it did. She even admitted she didn’t change her username for the boys to use her old email address for face time. She said she change it back when we were going thru the separation and doesn’t know how to change things back and still said it’s okay for me to help reset it so the find me app can work. She also said she looked into one of those other family sharing apps to track.


I told my W while I get she needs to do this on her own and I commended her for wanting to do the work, I also will not back down on what I needed in the marriage. I said I will be patient but I will not be in a sex starved marriage or another in house separation and I will stilll need her To be transparent. Surprisingly she said those things aren’t a problem, she has nothing to hide but she can not make a promise to me about the marriage until she works and focuses on her first. She said she needs pressure from me to stop. So here we are trying to communicate our needs. I told her I was trying to follow a process I thought she was on board with.

I told her I am not going to tolerate disrespect , the rebellion, and I understand she’s got a lot of resentment she has to deal with but that’s got to get worked on. She isn’t aligning her doing this for the marriage but she has commented that once she goes and if it helps maybe she can figure out why she felt like she had to lie to me all this time.

Although it sounds a bit dire and there is a high chance this doesn’t work out, I expressed



W said that d wasn’t even on the table when I made a comment about it. She just needs time to sort her mess out so maybe we can get back to being in a good place. I told her this is going to be tricky because with all the lies in the past I will be seeing if there is traction because I can’t have ‘no dialogue’ with her on what’s going on, I told her I don’t sent her to try to pull the wool over my eyes saying she is working on it and 6 months pass and there is no forward process. She said that would be a long time and hopes it won’t be that long but at least let her go to the first one and see how it is.

This week I had been giving us some space. One of the days I went out to have dinner by myself and read. I told her I was out havin dinner by myself when she asked and I told her it was to give space and she said I didn’t need to. She went out with her sisters today and got home. We had a semi heavy convo of how she is feeling right now.

I am not taking it to heart thankfully because of this forum to believe nothing they say. I do feel it’s important to heed the signs.

I have heard It said here that the WAS rejects what we share with them so I was aware ahead of time this could and would happen. I have been hesitant to say we are reconning. I think we are steering in that direction but it’s a long way off and I am not out of the woods yet. I feel like I have to be confident in where we are, don’t let it get me emotional in front of her. I still need to stand my ground and not be afraid. That’s one thing I haven’t been is afraid to lose her.

Last week she said when she thought about divorce back almost a year ago she lost attraction for me but now she has it. She said she didn’t know what it was but she liked this new me with the changes. Tonight she said she feels like she needs to grow and make some changes and she can’t have me guiding or pushing her or she will resent me for trying to control her.

I don’t know , it’s going to be confusing and this looks like accepting them back too soon. I don’t want to be punitive and hard reset with taking the boys to the apartment. I already claimed that this is my house too but I still have the apartment on the side so I am not sure what that says. I hate to overthink anything too.

What do I need to consider or do at this stage?
This a false start or not necessarily?

I don’t know if she is saying I am smothering her with things to do so that she doesn’t have to do them. Maybe I just need to really be patient and allow her time to figure it out and then see what I feel by that time. I need to reread Sandis notes on having a good plan.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 750
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Hey Adam -

I don't know if this will help, but a lot of the resources here from Hearts Blessings have helped me to understand the different "stages" of MLC (if you believe in that).

It has given me more clarity on what the spouse in MLC shows when they are starting to exit the MLC tunnel as it's called and this sounds a little like what is going on in your sit.

Hope that helps a bit - stay strong, man smile

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