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Hello DB family. I haven't posted in a bit. I've been trying to keep up with you guys threads, but have been taking a break from my own thread. I've been kind of status quo with my situation...which actually isn't even true. Nothing different has been happening between W and I, but I do feel myself changing. As I become more detached, my desire to reconcile with W dwindles. The last couple of weeks have been a little tough on me emotionally, though, so I thought I should come back to my thread and journal a little.

I'll start my journalling with an observation I've had about myself recently. As I mentioned above, the more time I spend away from W, the more detached I feel and the less I feel like reconciling. To recap my situation, I'm 2 years from noticing her initial changes, 2 months out on 2 year anniversary of BD, and 5 months out from when she moved out. We don't really ever talk unless it is about the kids scheduling. There was a random call about 2 weeks ago where we talked for about 20 minutes on the phone because she kept the call going and seemed to want to talk, but outside of that 1 call she is mainly pretty distant. I do not initiate anything anymore. What I realized is that when I spend enough time away from her, my desire to continue standing for my marriage dwindles to almost nothing. Recently I have found that my interactions with her are not affecting much much either. Previously I would feel fine and then I would see her and it would set me back some and it would take me a day or so to right myself again. I'd be missing her and my family unit being together. I've recently discovered that when I spend time with her and her family, it still affects me. Her brothers and I have always been close and they have continued to contact me to hang out with them. I do on occasion, but I do not initiate contact with them out of respect for boundaries (not that W deserves that respect but that is the man I am), but I do reply to their initiation of contact. What I've realized is that I seem to be ok around W, and OK around her family, but hanging out with them all together affects me negatively. It feels awkward. I explain that as a little background to the decision I am trying to make for this week...but before I get to that I need to discuss my kids.

My daughter and my W have not been getting along very well. S gets frustrated by Ws behavior sometimes, but he is 15 and wrapped up in his own social circle that it doesn't affect him as much. Both kids seem to prefer to stay wit me, but D makes it obvious. In the past week she has cried twice after interactions with W. This past week was my week with the kids, but Ws mother was in town and wanted to have the kids for a day to see their grandma, which I of course allowed. Thing is, she wanted them for Halloween. S had plans with friends already which W knew and understood. D WANTED to hang out with friends, but she was waiting for friends to invite her. When I picked D up from school last Monday, she had found out during the day that her friends mom had sent an invite to W for D to go to the friends house for a party, but W had declined because she wanted D to come to her house and hang out with grandma. D already didn't want to hang out with W, and her brother got to go hang out with his friends. D cried and said that she felt like her mom had zoned out for a couple years and now all the sudden wanted to try and spend time with her again, but that she didn't even try to do things she wanted to do or to get to know her again. That she was still treating her like the little kids she was 2 years ago. I thought it was good that she was able to verbalize her feelings like that, but it broke my heart. Then on actual Halloween, I took son to his party and W picked up daughter from school. Around 8:15 D texts me and asks if I want to come pick her up. It seemed a little early so I asked if they were done and if it was OK with her mom. D said yes so I got in the car and drove over. W had her brothers, their families, her mom, her dad and his wife, and a few friends of her brothers over and their kids. My D was in her room with the door locked. So, looking around, it was everyone hanging out with their families, except W. Her son was out, H (me) not there, and daughter who was in her room with the door shut. A few of the family got up and hugged me and said they were wondering when I was coming, but I politely said that I was there to pick up D. W had offered me food which I politely declined. Then she realized I was just there to pick up D and seemed distressed. I said that I had asked D if it was ok and she said yes, and W agreed that it was fine. I think W just wanted to put on a show for her family that everything was fine (having D over, offering me food, etc), but I just don't roll like that. So, I left with D and she cried on the way home. Said everyone was awkward around her and barely even talked to her. I explained to her that I wish I could make it easier on her, but what I could do is make sure that my house was a comfortable environment for her to relax and be herself. And that she could talk to me about anything and that it was good that she was talking to me now. We then went home and had a great rest of our evening. She fell asleep next to me on the couch watching a scary show on TV.

So that was last week. This coming week my Ws brothers have invited me on a boys camping trip. It will be her 2 brothers and a couple of close friends. I did take the time off of work and planned on going. I really love her brothers and they have been my brothers for the past 20 years. I am feeling conflicted now. To start, this is Ws week with the kids, but come Friday it will be my week again. If I go, it will put the kids with their mom for a week and a half and cut in to my time. With the way that W and D have been getting along, I am worried about doing that. Then, turns out S has a major VB tournament this weekend. He just got moved to varsity and he is a freshman. They are in first place in the standings right now so they have a good shot at winning the tournament. It would be kind of like winning a state championship. He is VERY excited about it. If I go camping, I will miss that. In addition, I have been starting to wonder about my relationship with the brothers. I am not so sure if a big bonding trip with them is within my best interest right now. If W and I do not reconcile, then most likely my relationship with them will have to diminish. I mean if W starts seeing someone serious enough to bring around the family then I can't still be around for that. Not that she is seeing someone now, but we don't seem to be going anywhere with our relationship so that is a real possibility. But...her brothers love me and really want me to go, so I feel pretty conflicted about it.

Whew...sorry to have written so much, but I needed to type all that out. I love my family and never wanted things to be like this.


Me: 43 yrs
W: 40 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 18 yrs
Daughter: 16 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Hello sjohns6

I am glad to hear from you and read your update.

From what you wrote it sounds more like indifference is starting to take hold, than more detachment. To me you sound well detached from W and her behaviour. Your post seems like an accurate retelling of events, with no emotional pains - detached.

Indifference is a strange place. Your feelings for W will lessen greatly, and your thoughts will follow suit. Just like when you were full of passion and frustration after BD. Your thoughts will follow your feelings. Only then it caused pain, now it will cause nothingness.

Tap into your beliefs.

The sweet welcomed relief of indifference does hit a bump as you adjust to this new emotional state. In short since your feeling towards W have lessened, other ones will seem much larger than they really are. Stay the course, things will settle.

Tap into your beliefs. It is here that you will find what you are seeking. The answers and reasons you are searching for.

I understand when you say the less you feel towards W, the less you feel like reconciling. You need to find the other reasons, the ones not based on just feelings, the ones from your core. Be patient and do not do anything drastic. This takes time and will be well worth it.

- - - -

Your upcoming conflict. Kids vs BILs.

I like the way you stated it, you feel pretty conflicted about it. Very accurate sjohns, well done. You are not weighting the pro and cons of going or not, you are conflicted, struggling with what you want against what you should. More or less.

At any rate, to me it looks like your scales have already started to lean one way. I could be way off base here, but it looks like you are wanting a nudge. Pick your kids.

I hope your son has a great time at his VB tournament. It would be really nice to get a first place finish.

I am sorry if I overstepped. I have faced some conflicts about family (kids) vs friends, or fun, or even extended family. I chose family every time, and have never regretted it.

Take care

DnJ


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

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sjohn, I have wondered where you were! I was happy to see you post and to see you stop by my thread, thank you!

I just wanted to say --

CHOOSE YOUR KIDS! And tell them you are choosing them! Tell them you had this plan but you realized that you really missed them and didn't want to lose even a half day of the time you get to see them, and that even being in the house when they are upstairs watching TV is way more important to you than a camping trip with anyone anytime. They will love it! As a woman who has spent her life since being a teen working with teens, I assure you -- from what I read here, your daughter is clearly really struggling, and the thought of her locked in her room kills me, and I don't even know her beyond a few lines I have read in your posts. She is hurting.

I have made the decision to give up so much of my life just to be available for my son any time he wants or needs me, just for these couple of years when he wants that. Think of how fast the baby years went by, and all the times that you wished you had taken even more joy of that time. The teen years are the same, but in addition, her emotional needs as a teen girl with a crazy mom are beyond what you can imagine. I was that girl though maybe my mom was more crazy than your W. My dad was not an MLCer but he was pretty difficult and did many hurtful things. If I had had a dad like you, things would have been very different. Maybe I wouldn't even have ended up with a future crazy husband if I hadn't been so screwed up in the parent-attachment department.

I don't mean to be dramatic, but I am not going to be kindly polite about it like my boards-best-friend DnJ. I'm gonna be vehement and bossy. I don't think you should worry about your future relationship with your brothers-in-law on any level; I think you should keep enjoying their company when they initiate it. But I think you should invite them to be with you and your kids more often than being with them alone as "bros." Either way,I would drop anything and everything any time your kids not only need you, which might be obvious, but just when they kinda want you. So many times I have sensed that my son wanted me to be near, even when he was being a royal pain in my rear and was just playing video games and occasionally barking out orders for food. And every single time, after being terrible to me, by the time I went to sleep, he was pouring out his heart to me, holding my hand to fall asleep, asking me for a hot water bottle (he carries stress in his belly) and just leaning with all his soul into me. (Something I can only bear up under by leaning with all my soul into God!)

I am so happy you can be there for your S and D. You are a wonderful dad. So happy I know so many wonderful dads here.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Good Morning sjohns6

I know Gerda, well sort of, for a while now. If she is this fired up and passionate, Iíd listen, she has a good head on her shoulders and a good heart. I also agree with her, in a little too kindly polite way. smile


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
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Man, I just love you guys. I really need to post more often. The support I get from you is priceless and I cherish it.

DnJ, thank you for the push. No, you definitely did not overstep. I wanted your opinion. I didn't realize that in my recounting of events that I had stacked the cards one way, but in re-reading my post, I certainly did. I guess it is probably clear what I really wanted, which was to be with my kids. You hit on a few points that gave me pause and I feel like you may have been responding to something that I didn't say but have been thinking...and thank you for that. You mentioned being patient and to not do anything drastic in this new found indifference. I am not sure if you were speaking out of your own feelings you had during this stage or picking up on what I wasn't saying, but I have been considering filing for D. I'm not really sure why. I am not in a rush for anything, and I am not trying to start dating. I think its just that as I see myself not really interested in being with the woman W has turned in to, and I don't see any signs of W getting better, and the fact that I can't really even feel the love that I used to feel for W anymore (which I find a little sad...but it is what it is), that I find myself wondering why not go ahead and call it. Wouldn't that be the logical step in moving on? I am having a hard time envisioning the path that would lead us to reconciliation...not sure W is capable of what it would take and she certainly isn't showing any signs of that ever happening. If its not going to happen, then why not move forward? These are just my thoughts, haven't acted on anything. I know that I am going through phases myself and that a decision like that is something that I'd need to be sure of...but I can't help but recognize that that is where my head is at recently.

You also mentioned I sound more indifferent than detached...although also detached. To be honest, I'm not sure of the difference. I mean, to me, the word indifference seems to describe how I feel more than detached does, but I don't really understand the difference. I really want to, though. Can you expand on that for me? I really appreciate it. I also get what you mean about in this new stage as my feeling dwindle for W that my other feelings may seem larger than they are and that makes a lot of sense. I hadn't considered that but I see the truth in it.

I am really going to work on finding the other reasons to stand that are at my core. It breaks my heart to lose the feeling for my W, but at the same time I just can't go back to how I felt before. It is too gut wrenching and I need a little peace. I hate that it looks like the way to get past this in my heart and mind is to let go of the feelings I had for W. I cherished those feelings, but they are not serving me now. I want to want to stand for my marriage, but this indifferent stage I have fought hard to get to and so far has been my only way up the ladder. I don't want my feelings for W to be the price I pay to get there, but for now it is what it is. Her lack of love and respect for me at this point aren't helping me...so I have to help me and this has been the only way so far. Like I said, I'm going to dig a little deeper to understand myself and what I want. I'll get there...

Gerda, I just love you! Thank you for that 2x4. You hit me on the head with the the truth I was already holding. I DO know what you mean about how fast they grow and how I don't want to miss any of it. I think my mind was made up already but I was just having a hard time seeing the choice I had made. I remember right before W moved out I was contemplating losing the kids for half the time right at a point where in a few years they would be moving out. I sat down and did the math and came up with about how many days I had left with them. It was difficult seeing the math worked out like that...when you put a number on it, it seems so much more personal. So, I think about the time I have left with them all the time and make every effort to cherish it. It makes me sad to think about W and what she is losing. The time she is losing with them now she can never get back. If her and I ever reconcile, she won't have lost much with me that can't be regained with a little work. She can never get these years of the kids lives back...and that is sad to me knowing that at some point she will have to deal with the knowledge of that. I will not have that to deal with and I know I won't have any regrets coming out of this, regardless of how it plays out.

I can't express how much I appreciate the support from you guys. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!


Me: 43 yrs
W: 40 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 18 yrs
Daughter: 16 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Hello sjohns6

Originally Posted by sjohns6
...I have been considering filing for D. I'm not really sure why.

This is part of that donít do anything drastic advice. Until you are sure - donít do anything. Answers will come, honest.

I want to speak to the ďnot sure why, but am consider filing for DĒ. There are a coupe of things.

First, as indifference takes hold your feelings for W will be quashed, suppressed - and nature abhors a vacuum. As I said other feelings will fill that void and seem much larger than they really are. Some pretty common advice I have given is do not make decisions based on feelings. Feeling are fleeting. Well, do not make decisions based on lack of feeling either.

Both of those are in play with this.

1) You lack feelings for W, ergo you concluded we are done - get D.

2) You have new and large feelings for nice, new, could be special, person (even if you havenít met them yet). You conclude - this is great, might as well get D and get started on better life. Those exaggerated feelings, feel real, they are real, they just arenít as big as you feel they are. Remember they are fleeting, let them settle.

Second, indifference and the nothingness it brings. You have been through a pretty dramatic time in the last while, you are used to having some drama in your life, in a way you are addicted to drama. The nothing, the limbo, your mind will work against it, will look for some form of drama or excitement.

These two forces work on you, ideas start to form, reasons are created, logical thoughts to rationalize are formulated, all in an attempt to convince yourself to do something dramatic and exciting.

You stated quite a few of them. Not interested in being with the women W has turned in to. I canít feel the love I used to feel. I should just go ahead a call it. That would be the logical step. Canít see reconciliation. W probably canít do what is required. If this wonít happen, I should just move forward. And so on.

Yep my thought and feelings, exactly. Realise what is happening to you.

Now is when you need to go beyond and find your core, your beliefs, your convictions. You will discover your reasons and beliefs that are not based on your love or feelings towards W. These will be based on you - who you are.

Do you believe in MLC? Do you believe in marriage? Do you believe in W? Do you believe she is worth this effort?

Just some ideas to get you started. Notice - do you believe she is worth it, not - do you feel she is worth it. A big difference there.

When you have indifference and are healed enough to be able to walk away, that is when you truly start to stand. That is the real start of the test. Dig deep, find your convictions, learn your beliefs.

- - - -

Detachment vs indifference.

This is for the viewpoint towards our spouse, it is what we most struggle with. However one can be attached, detached, indifferent to any person, place, or thing.

Detachment is when your emotional state is not directly affected by your spouseís emotional state, behaviours, or actions.

It is the opposite of attachment, where your emotions change depending on your spouseís emotions, behaviour, or actions. Your emotional response is based on an irrational coupling to your spouse. This emotional response is uncontrolled and unavoidable.

We all remember being attached. When your spouse treated you badly, you felt bad or sad. When they behaved nicely towards you, you felt so much better. Then they left with OP kissing on the way out the door and you crash into depression and fear. You could not control your emotions, they changed based on your spouse.

As more rational ideas and thoughts gain foothold, more control over your responses is attained. When you are detached it is not, that you donít feel anything, you can still get upset, sad, whatever - you can just rationally see the reason and you are in control. You are not riding that emotional rollercoaster. A step towards indifference.


Indifference is the absence of feelings, or very little feelings, for your spouse. Where in detachment you could be still very much in love, just not irrationally dragged along - in indifference you do not have those passionate feelings.

Some say hate is the opposite of love. Not true. Both are born in the crucible of passion and are but a razor edge apart. We have all experienced those times where the person we love (our spouse) does something so stupid, or wrong, or hurtful - we suddenly hate them. Of course we get over it and love returns. We are deeply passionate towards our spouse and love and hate are passionate emotions.

Indifference is nothing, neutral, bland, the opposite of passion. It is like the feelings one has for a stranger, maybe even less. Indifference for your spouse does seem more than indifference for others. Their actions and our own defence mechanisms put more protection, more walls, more indifference between us and our spouse than between us and some man off the street. It does make sense, our spouses hurt us greatly, and our healing would cause a greater disconnect in response to the greater hurt.

Indifference can, and sometimes does, get to the point of just not caring about them anymore. Our spouses have this mastered. Some of you have experienced this from your spouse and know just how great indifference can become.

However, for most LBS, we still care. Our feelings of love for our spouse is lessened. However our love still exists in our thoughts and core beliefs. It is here that something amazing takes place, deep within who you are, and defined by your beliefs.

That love that you know you have, you believe in, will grow. It will transcend, freed from the boundaries of passion, it becomes more - you love unconditionally.

Without the love/hate passion, you love based on reason, faith, who they were, who you are, your long lives together, a belief that they are still inside trapped somewhere - you will love based on whatever your core values are. You will love with out the constraints of passion. You will love them, who there are, and it will have no detraction due to feelings of dislike or hatred. This is how it becomes unconditional - love based on beliefs instead of feelings.

A love like that leads to forgiveness.

A love like that brings peace.

DnJ


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

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Wow, DnJ...thank you for that. I had to read that several times and it meant a lot to me. I appreciate you taking the time to help me work through all that.

Your explanation of indifference vs detachment makes sense. You have given me a lot to think on and I doubt I'll be able to soak it all in all at once.

As far as filing for D, I think you listed out my thinking perfectly. I actually had started looking at what it takes to file in my state (in all this time since BD I have never done that) and it scared me off a bit. It was like D seemed like the rational way to go, but once looking at all it entailed it brought the whole thing in to focus, back to reality...and I realized that regardless of my indifference that I am not ready for that. Or rather I am not ready to be the initiator of that. I do not want to act out of emotions, or what feels like a lack there of. I think I'll take your advice and just let things be for now, I still have a lot of work to do on my self so that doesn't really need to be a focus for me for now.

One thing I am wondering about is when you mention "Now is when you need to go beyond and find your core, your beliefs, your convictions. You will discover your reasons and beliefs that are not based on your love or feelings towards W. These will be based on you - who you are." To me this sounds like a moral conviction kind of thing. Like, standing for your marriage based on the vows I took that go above the feelings I have for W. Is that what you meant? I think you are hinting at something profound here, but I may need it in 2x4 form. Is that a possibility? Sorry, you have gone out of your way so much in the messages you are giving me and here I am asking for more. Thank you for all.

You ask a few other questions that I want to answer even though I think they are rhetorical.

-Do I believe in MLC? - Yes I do. Sometimes I wonder about it being a blanket excuse for selfish behavior, but in the end I do believe in it due to all I have read AND witnessed with my own eyes. For 19 years W and I had a beautiful and loving relationship. She did not just fall out of love and lose her moral character in 2 months because thats a normal thing that happens.

-Do I believe in marriage? - Yes. I do. But I also believe that it takes 2 people to want to be in a marriage and to stay true to the commitment they made to each other. My feelings and convictions can't cover that for the both of us us.

-Do I believe W is worth this effort? - This one is harder to answer. The W I used to know and the relationship we used to have, yes. The W she could be again and the relationship we could develop in the future, yes (or probably, assuming she is some form of the wonderful person she used to be). Now? well, if she stays the way she is and nothing progresses between us...then no. The person she is now is not worth the effort. That is a hard thing to say, and maybe even a little selfish. The idea that I only put in effort to see some kind of return on investment. But...isn't that what a relationship is? Not the putting in effort to see a return, but a give and take between two people who want to share their lives together. If she never returns to wanting a relationship, then I would say that the effort would have been wasted. If there is a better way to view that then I am all open. Generally I am an optimist but I may be a bit jaded right now. I'm working on that...

Again...thank you so much for all of the thought and time you have put in to replying to me.


Me: 43 yrs
W: 40 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 18 yrs
Daughter: 16 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Sjohnson6,

DnJ always have some great advice. Most of us do for others
Sometimes I have to take my own advice.

I remember one time my d10 was breaking everything,
I was downstairs unpacking, all I hear is things being thrown
D10 kept saying I hate her that's when I knew my kids
Needed therapy they been going for over 8 months and one
Thing we all where taught to not do rational things when angry

I took that advice because I know I would be in jail now.
Now I myself calm down and wait next day before I do anything
I can regret.

It's hard. We are so angry at MLC. It's hard not to react.

Now that's a interesting question DnJ ask about believing in MlC
My belief are kike you, it's a selfish thing to do or poor excuse.

But unfortunately it's being written more and study's are now
Actually saying childhood trauma can cause lots of Damage
as an adult.

My belief is some of US are mentally stronger we can overcome
Anything. Unfortunately I thought W being an ex Marine and the
way W spoke I thought W is mentally strong. I fooled myself
And have also surprised myself because I would have thought I would
have by now been lock up or been mental hospital for a mental breakdown
But I am stronger then ever emotionally.

Is interesting that's one thing I would say.

I have gotten more knowledge now than ever in childhood trauma how
It good simply hurt us as adults now I am here trying to protect 3 kids
From having a f up life when they become mens or women.

You sound like a strong guy I know you will over this. Remember

One day at a time


At BD
Lesbian marriage
Me39,W36
S9,D9,S8 adopted all three
Together almost 10yrs
Bomb Drop - April 2017
W movedout - May,2017
OW June,2017
Currently 2018
Me40, W38
S10,D10,S9
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Hello SJ

Very good answers to the questions (rhetorical or not).

We have a similar view of things and life.

As to my hinting to something profound. The part - go beyond and find your core, your beliefs, your convictions. That was right above those questions, that you answered so well.

The questions asked - What do you believe.

Not - what is happening, what do others think about this, how do your feel towards <whatever>, what do you think about <whatever>, logically what probability do you give blah blah.

Again, those questions are just a starting point for you.

Did you really answer - What you believe.

When you get to indifference, you are well on your way to healing, you have been involved in self reflection and examination. Those are the acts that push indifference forward.

So, with out all the noise from emotions, and already in the mind set of self reflection, you can delved deep inside yourself and find what you really believe in, what is non-negotiable, what you are willing to die for (figuratively), what you are willing to compromise on, what you are willing to forgive or not forgive. And many many other characteristics about yourself, all with out those fleeting feelings getting in the way and skewing your results.

You will truly understand that man in the mirror. That is profound! To understand oneís self. We all think we do. But, do you really know yourself?

Yes there are moral convictions you will discover. Yourís. No one elseís. Not your parentsí, not Wís, not your friends, not even DnJís - Yourís based on who you are.

So, back to those questions - based on your beliefs.

Do you believe in MLC? There are people who do and those that donít. Who is right? Is there actually a right answer? A true answer? Can both by right? Can both be true? Why? Why not? That is the digging I am talking about, the going beyond.

What about marriage? How far are you willing to go? What about vows? What about standing? Where does marriage end?

Is W worth the effort? Are you worth the effort?


Did you notice that all that up there, all those questions, all the answers you will be seeking, it is all about and based on you, nothing to do with your spouse. Do you see why indifference is necessary? It is all you. Who you are and will be.

I hope that filled in a few more of the blanks.

By the way - Your title - making it about me...

Kind of profound, I think.

DnJ


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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SJ6

I love the advice from DNJ

He is right

Feelings change quickly

Too quickly to drive actions

I would add

Beliefs can change too

But those changes are decisions

And you control your decisions


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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