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DonH Offline OP
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My Previous Thread

I know it had to be close to time for a new thread - even though due to length I'm sure I'm still short of 100. Whatever, I figured I needed a new title anyhow - sort of the theme to start out with.

I in some ways hate to admit it, but I'm getting back to what I'd say was my "normal" self - or at least the self I am most happy being. I don't hate to admit that I'm getting back there - but hate a bit to admit that Wild Girl is a part of why - perhaps a big part of why. I really was and am happy by myself but I'd be lying if I didn't admit the past couple of months have been A LOT of fun! I'm feeling like I used to - much more confident, much more outgoing, just happier. It has been a needed confidence boost. Of course at this point I'm getting only the good parts of this budding R - no real downside. We all know the honeymoon phase doesn't last forever.

Not all too much to report on WG. I've not seen her since a week ago and our last phone conversation was this past Thursday night. I just got done last last night with a somewhat unprecedented seven gigs over the last five days. I'm sure I put on nearly 750 miles or at least close???, but I'm not as worn out as I thought I might be. WG's mother had a milestone birthday on Friday so I got the band to sing happy birthday to her on a short video that WG delivered at a family gathering. I think I got some major points for that! We've texted since but with me being busy that's been very light as well. I do have to say that she is perfectly great at doing her own thing. She's not said one word about the fact that I've gotten busy. She went to a friends house yesterday and out to a waterpark with female family today - just the girls.

I ran into her aunt - this is the lady I've known for 25 years - on Thursday. She said next to nothing about me seeing Wild Girl. I brought it up as WG texted just as I was speaking with her aunt. Makes me wonder, however... was she just being respectful and not prying? Why did I almost get the sense that if she didn't feel in the middle or this being family, she might try to warn me??? Is that just me? I really did get that feeling though as she is often somewhat outspoken and honest/blunt. Even when I brought up a previous event that I went to WG's house afterwards, she nearly ignored the comment. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all? Just got that feeling. Interesting.

I also can sense WG needs a bit of distance again. This is clearly a pattern every time we get a little closer, she needs to take a step back. It's getting more obvious to me. We made some plans for a month from now with her suggesting we "hang out" for three days. I've purchased the tickets, so it's set. We also talked about some other future plans. Later in Thursday's conversation she expressed how she feels lucky that she is getting to know me, I would have to imagine her parents and others at the birthday party Friday commented that this guy (me) would take the time to create and send a happy birthday video for her mom. Of course the guys in the band then started asking more about her as well - given what I asked them to do. They all think I should have asked her to go on the cruise by now - especially after seeing her picture, but it's been "only" 2 months - a little less than, actually. To me that is hardly nothing. Not sure everyone sees things the way I do.

So, we will see how this week goes. It sounds like her parents, aunt and certainly many of my friends will be at our state fair a week from today. We perform there for several days. I think Wild Girl and her daughters may come as well - though still just talking about it. I know someone will let it slip about the cruise so I may at least talk with her about it prior - just like I warned her that the band leader will likely call her my girlfriend - it's just some of the banter we do from the stage - anyone female who knows someone in the band or requests a song, etc., becomes one of our "girlfriends" - it's a little bit flirty and makes them feel important - no matter if they are 10 or 90.

Anyhow, my point is, I'm still very surprised that I may have found someone as cautious and slow moving as I am - or is it just an act on her part? May be a little bit of both? I too tend to need to take a step back or have a little space if things start getting closer quickly. In this case, she's doing it for us - which I have little doubt is keeping my interest. If she were not, what might I be saying here to everyone? Hey, I admit it - I am who I am and I move very slow and am very cautious - with EVERYTHING I DO - it's not just women, it's business, friendships, etc. Yet, I'm already more interested in WG than I ever thought I would be. I even admitted that to her. I never thought when I pursued her a couple of months ago at that event that we'd become intimate (sexually) and be communicating and getting together as much as we have. Then again, since it's been nearly 5 years... I'd say I'm past due.

I'll close with this, it's amazing how Wild Girl's actions are keeping me engaged and building my interest. If she were getting clingy or weird by now, if she were all "You have to work, I really want to see you, I really miss you." at least at this point I'd be cautious. Instead, she just goes about her life. If I text, she responds pretty quickly or calls or whatever but she just lives her life and acts like she is very confident with or without me. It's a very attractive quality and is keeping my interest. I'm trying not to worry about the red flags, the age, or anything else and just going with it as I'm clearly enjoying it. And that's something that sort of hit me a week or two back... I think a lot of this comes down to how Wild Girl makes me feel. She's just a lot of fun, I'm super comfortable and totally myself with her, but she makes me feel good... makes me feel like my old self. That's something that many of the others did not do. Yeah, she's still outside of my typical box and there are some potential downsides, but it's still a nice feeling. Hopefully it stays that way - for both of us.


DonH
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Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
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If she were getting clingy or weird by now, if she were all "You have to work, I really want to see you, I really miss you." at least at this point I'd be cautious. Instead, she just goes about her life. If I text, she responds pretty quickly or calls or whatever but she just lives her life and acts like she is very confident with or without me. It's a very attractive quality and is keeping my interest.


Good advice for all of us dating!

CMM is totally besotted with me and it's a fine line. I'm enjoying the relationship and getting to know him - but feel like he's run on ahead a few blocks. I do understand that it's largely because we just started at different places: he was more than ready to get into a monogamous relationship and find his "last love", I was a little bit traumatized and just dipping my toe back into the dating pool when we met. Also, he's an extrovert who would love to spend tons of time with me while my introvert self needs some space. The good thing though is he's very receptive to talking about it and willing to give me space when I ask for it. And to be fair, he is very good company and he speaks my love languages.

It's just that, as someone who myself is often the pursuer, it's interesting to be on this end of things and see how too much enthusiasm too soon could easily put off someone who otherwise would be interested. (Not that CMM is putting me off, but if I were more of an Avoidant type it would definitely be a problem.)

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I don't typically come here just to "journal" but if I did, this might be under the title of "journaling" from me. LOL. As I am starting off the third month getting to know Wild Girl, it's again interesting how things develop and you get to know someone. I had my original presumptions about her and some have proved to be correct while others I was wrong about. It's now been about 10 or 11 days since I've last seen her. I was very busy this past weekend plus a few days prior and she had other things to do as well. Now so far this week we've talked on the phone at least an hour each night. She's continuing her keeping her distance thing, or perhaps it's more a keeping her walls up thing, yet most of the time she is the one reaching out to me - which I'm fine with. It is interesting, however, how she almost wants to not see me for a couple of weeks yet wants daily contact and enjoys talking for hours with me.

We have several day plans in a few weeks after she gets back from a family vacation and I get back from a very fun festival road trip. I'm sure they will happen. Her parents, aunt and others will all be coming to see the band I'm with this coming Monday at our state fair. Will she? Hard to say and I'm just leaving it at that with her. She may be trying to surprise me - not sure. I off handily invited her to come along on this weekend's overnight trip to a casino but she said she had to work on Sunday. True statement but it's a two hour thing that I know she could get out of if she wanted to. She is clearly struggling with something. I thought it was the age difference, and might be. I also thought it was that she's not had a healthy R with a "boyfriend" type person in a long time. She even says she's very independent and clearly is. She's obviously still interested - but clearly cautious of anything getting even remotely serious. All of these things are again totally fine with me - if not what I'm looking for.

What really caught me, however, is a conversation she relayed a few days ago about her D15. This D is more reserved, not nearly as outgoing as D17 who is much like her mom. However, D15 told Wild Girl she is worried about her. Wait for this... she thinks her mom (Wild Girl) is drinking too much! I just listened and validated. However, wow, interesting observation from her D15. She's most worried, she said, because she's already lost her dad to alcoholism and other bad traits and she doesn't want to lose her mom either. However, it was the rest of the conversation that really caught me. WG has said before how she struggles with anxiety. It effects her sleep and I'm really wondering now if that's not also effecting her behavior as well. I've seen this pattern of wanting to see me but then is not sure. Is that the anxiety? More over, is she self medicating this with alcohol? I really wonder. I brought up the suggestion of ever considering medication - not additive types like Xanax or something but there are others out there, Zoloft for example, that can actually work well.

I may be as wrong about this as I was about a few other things. However, like with two weeks ago and her "still debating" if she wanted to come out to see me, then after she did, having a really great time and being by her own admission very relaxed with me the following day, You all may recall that on that day she didn't drink at all - even though I did a little. Hmmmmmm, felt really calm and doesn't drink. When anxiety kicks in, or can't sleep, self medicate? I'm not her psychiatrist and don't want to be. I'm just continuing to watch all of this.

The rest is still fine with me. It's nice to have someone who asks about my day, just wants to chat, tells me what she is up to. Some of the little things continue to hit me as well, for example, a few days ago she kept texting that her volleyball team "one the first game" I figured it was just a typo until she let me know they "one the second game" as well. Yeah, I know, let it go Don, but I do notice things like this - whether I should or not! I did not, however, say a word about it - I just let it go. LOL.

I'll continue to update or "journal" here as whatever this is continues to unfold. It's looking more and more like the cruise discussion will happen in a few weeks during our three day "hang out." LOL - she still doesn't want to call it a "date." Whatever is going on or whatever she is doing, she's clearly still keeping my attention. I would have thought for sure by now I'd start to feel pressured or pushed for more, and if anything I'm interesting in more than she is - at least with in person contact. She's clearly not looking for other guys, however. At least I really get that feeling. She even goes out of her way to let me know that.

I'll have more as it happens or early next week.


DonH
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Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
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However, D15 told Wild Girl she is worried about her. Wait for this... she thinks her mom (Wild Girl) is drinking too much!


Ok - I stand by my initial assessment! Even her daughter thinks she drinks too much. What was Wild Girl's response to this?

As to the business of one versus won: it is always possible that she was dictating the text. Isn't it? Bad grammar and spelling really bother me but I've loosened up a bit in this age of autocorrect.

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For what it's worth, it seems like your both enjoying it for what it is, keep it going and enjoy each other as long as it lasts (not implying it's time limited)... Enjoy your cruise


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Originally Posted by kml
Even her daughter thinks she drinks too much. What was Wild Girl's response to this?.


I could tell she took it seriously but then also tried to explain it away - including her being a 15 yr/o and also stating that her 17 yr/o isn't worried at all. I also find it interesting how she is critical of people who drink too much. She talks about her exH as a total falling down drunk and says nearly the same about one of her brothers. She claims she "knows when to stop" which is I guess true as her behavior is not adversely effected other than the last time with the shots in the bar where she readily admitted she had too much to drink.

I see this very thing with a keyboard player I do a lot of gigs with. He has huge family history with his father but he too looks at how his father was clearly an alcoholic - would miss work, be held up in his house for days drinking, etc. Because he doesn't do any of those things he doesn't consider himself an alcoholic. However, some others do and he meets at least some of the criteria. I know someone else that can drink like Wild Girl does but I'd not consider her an alcoholic either as it does not effect her life negatively - which is often one of the criteria. It's the same with Wild Girl. I've never seen it effect her in like missing work, no DUIs in fact she is very, very cautious about drinking and driving. Some people get really mean, angry, have outbursts, their behavior and personality completely changes. That's not WG - she's the same when she wakes up in the morning as she is after a bunch of beers. She meets all of her obligations with the kids, etc. So her behavior is not negatively effected by her drinking - still she is high enough on the suspicion index - at least for me - to be cognoscente of it. If nothing else, I think she's unaware that she might be farther up the scale than she thinks she is. That's the case with many with addiction - admitting it is often the hardest part. I'm just saying, it's NOT at all a clear cut case. In fact, other than I am able to count - if I didn't count or know the consumption amount, I'd not even consider it. The other indicators are not there - it's just amount and perhaps frequency.


Originally Posted by Coconut
For what it's worth, it seems like your both enjoying it for what it is, keep it going and enjoy each other as long as it lasts (not implying it's time limited)... Enjoy your cruise


I'm going on the cruise either way. We'll see if WG wants to as well. It is interesting how people's behaviors change. Earlier on she was telling me how she was excited to get together, etc. but was still cautious of not being too excited. Lately, she's been more as if trying to tell me she won't see me for awhile - as if to prove something - like she can go multiple weeks without seeing me - even though we are still talking everyday. She's still not committed to this coming Monday and I'm not bringing it up again. Honestly i'll be disappointed if her parents, her aunt, some of her friends show up and she does not. Sensing her need for space, I've completely not contacted her much if at all this week - but I'll always respond. So what happens, I don't reach out and of course she does. Last night it was getting late and my phone rings. Again, for someone trying to play it cool and not be all that interested, she's certainly doing a lot of thinking about me, talking with friends and co-workers - one of which invited WG and I to do something this Saturday (I'm busy) and then calling last night and admitting she missed me. So far she's initiated contact Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

It's again all fine with me. I continue to wonder if I'd be shutting down if she were constantly saying "I can't wait to see you this (fill in the blank)" or "I miss you so much", etc. Her words sort of say one thing while her actions say another. Who is really not that interested but then calling and texting several times a day? The two don't add up. Either way, I'm enjoying it because it really all is very casual in nature. The more it goes the more my initial thought that this is just a fun fling is reinforced. But beyond a few red flags (like the drinking) on balance there really is not a lot of concern and she always treats me well - as I do her. In fact, we've not really had an argument of any sort and that's not from lack of discussing lots of subjects and being together I'd say about 100 hours now. That says something as well I guess. So we'll see what happens this weekend as I'll be parking 10 minutes from Wild Girl's house to meet up with another band member and his wife this weekend. I'm guessing she wants to try to surprise me on Monday - perhaps the "surprise" will be she does something else? Then she leaves for her vacation a week from tomorrow and I leave for a really fun festival in Michigan a few days later. We both return the following Sunday and will be together until Tuesday night.

I do have to say, I like this way better than trying to find new women to date, going out once or twice and starting the process all over again. I will admit, I've missed this (whatever "this" is) more than I knew.


DonH
Midwest
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WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
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Don, it's really interesting reading your thread.

I have to admit though, I find it hard to read about the drinking part without my own experience of having been close to a heavy drinker/alcoholic.

A couple of things stood out to me from what you said here:

'That's the case with many with addiction - admitting it is often the hardest part. I'm just saying, it's NOT at all a clear cut case. In fact, other than I am able to count - if I didn't count or know the consumption amount, I'd not even consider it. The other indicators are not there - it's just amount and perhaps frequency.'

I think before even admitting it as an issue, comes the possibility of even just seeing it as an issue. My XH never even saw that his drinking was a potential issue. He just saw it as totally normal. And he refused to budge from that viewpoint.

Speaking from my experience, I learnt that it's never really a clear cut case. And that was as much to do with my own ideas and perceptions (and prejudices) of what an 'alcoholic' was/is as much as anything else.

One of the turning points in finding a different perspective was hearing one of his work colleagues say to me 'I mean, we all know how much he drinks'. I had noticed it, pointed out to him that it was an issue for me for years, in the way it was impacting our R and in the future would impact on his health. But he had always brushed it off/ignored me/carried on as previously.

Now, I'll say straight away, that from my perspective, at the time, the amount he drank and frequency of it didn't seem to impact on his work whatsoever. He was extremely, extremely good at what he did and incredibly successful at his job and very well known too on a national (and even international) l level. I was lucky to ride on the coat tails of that success, personally, financially, and possibly professionally as well.

Everyone knew who he was and what he'd done. You could go out and have the most amazing evening...he was the life and soul of any place whenever we went out (and that was a lot). Even places where when he walked in, he didn't know anyone. By the end of the evening, he would have chatted to everyone there and befriended everyone as well.

It wasn't until after everything fell apart that a couple of older people in the industry told me briefly about how his drinking affected his working life. And it really shocked me.

So, you'd think that spouse of 15 years would know pretty much everything there was to know about their partner. But some of the things I learnt about his behaviour around and as a result of alcohol afterwards really shocked me. And it tied in with the gut feeling that I'd had, and which I'd brushed off for so many years (for various reasons: cultural, over sensitivity on my part, personality differences, a live and let live attitude on my part...whatever the reason).

The thing I've taken away from it all though, was that I was always second place to alcohol in our R. That came first and was the thing that marked the boundaries of our R. Not in any obvious way, but in a very, very slowly, undermining, self esteem eroding process that took years and years. We were in a R for 18 years and M for 15.

Sorry if my really is a bit on the short and curt side, I'm just about to get up for work but wanted to write something anyway. And please do feel free to ignore some/most of what I say. I'm obviously hyper sensitive to issues around alcohol.


Me: 48, XH: 42
T: 18 years, M: 15 years

EA/PA 1: 6/2012
EA/PA 2: from autumn 2012-present

BD: 5/2013
ILYBNILWY BD & left: 10/2015

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Born: 4/2017

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PS, happy to chat more about it, if you're interested.


Me: 48, XH: 42
T: 18 years, M: 15 years

EA/PA 1: 6/2012
EA/PA 2: from autumn 2012-present

BD: 5/2013
ILYBNILWY BD & left: 10/2015

OW conceived: 8/2016
Born: 4/2017

H filed: 7/2017
D final: 28/12/2017
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I am going to chime in. My ex did not fit in with the classic portrayal of an addict or drug abuser. He was/is high functioning. He is great at his job. Highly educated. Very smart. His friends are all law enforcement!
Yet he was drinking in secret. I know this only from 5 years of credit card statements. I suspect drugs because of weird habits i never noticed till i learned the signs (constantly purchasing immodium, always running errands that made no sense) and saw the cash withdrawals from bad neighborhoods.


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I appreciate your story Focuss - I'm just not sure how it relates to me?????? I know that anyone who has had to go through living with an addict is scared by and from it. However, I don't think I'm even close to that here - other than my own personal history with opioid addiction - now in remission for coming up on 9 years.

Anyhow, I wanted to get another update for those who have been enjoying following along. I've got a busy month going here and it's amazing how hard it is to get back into the swing of things after being "lazy" for many months LOL. Anyhow, I had a great time on my weekend trip. Texted a bit with Wild Girl on the way up there (5 hour drive) which was nice as it made it go faster. I was the 7th wheel with three couples. I did wish WG would have went along but I'm so used to being without a "date" on these things that it's more comfortable being the 3rd or 5th or 7th wheel than had she come with me. Didn't talk much on Sunday and then gave her a quick call late Sunday night as I was in my last hour of my drive home. She was not in a talkative mood and just told me so - which I just said okay, we'll talk later have a nice night. It didn't bother me and I appreciated the honesty.

Of course then first thing Monday morning I get a wake up text - knew I would LOL. At this point she's still trying to play it that she's not coming with her family to the state fair. I was pretty sure, she just wanted to surprise me but I also admit (to you guys) I'd have been disappointed if she didn't and would wonder why. Well, she actually beat me there so that was a surprise as I walked in for sound check a full hour prior to our first set and she was there with her parents. So it was a nice sorta "surprise," and I thanked her for coming. After our performance WG and I went off to explore the fair while her parents went off someplace else. We met up with other friends of hers - who all seemed to know of me. Hmmmmm interesting. Her parents are in their early 70s and still in very good shape - both look much younger - but by about 6 PM they were looking to go so I told her I'm happy to take her home. Remember she lives a little over an hour from me. She really didn't want me to have to do that but I certainly didn't mind so that's what we made plans for. We were both so glad that we did as we had a really great time doing all sorts of things. The group of her friends had to go to the grandstand show so for the last 4 hours it was just her and I. We finally left by about 11 PM, getting back to her house by a little after midnight. She offered to sleep on the couch and have me take her bed as her girls were home - even though both were asleep on different floors of the house. Still I just elected to go back home. I didn't want to put her out, she had work early Tuesday anyhow and I didn't want the girls to feel awkward with me being there so that's what we did and it was an easy decision on my part.

So she met some of my friends while many others saw us together. She also posted a bunch of photos on social media. I made the comment that I guess she is now on the radar. Oddly, it's still not bothering me. Everything was very natural and fun - and no, she didn't drink all that much - at least for 12 hours at a state fair.

But now for some insight. I really have not been "over-thinking" this at all - in fact, not even thinking much about it. All of my actions have been natural or even like as if guided on auto-pilot. I'm just going with it. So Saturday night I had a discussion with the keyboard player about a bunch of things as he and I were at the bar having a few drinks while others were out gambling at the casino we were staying and performing at. I've known him since I was 15 and he was 17 (we are now 55 and 57) We talked about Wild Girl - including the cruise date thing. He was giving me crap about how Relationship avoidant I am. I told him that she's just as much or more that way than I am. "I think she's just saying that for your benefit so you don't doing running for the hills" was his response. Hmmmmm, is he correct? For someone trying to be so casual and saying we are doing nothing more than "hanging out", her friends and family all know of me, we talk everyday, she acted like a girlfriend at the fair, met my friends, posted pictures of us. OMG, is he right? So as WG and I were talking on Tuesday night, which included how much fun she had, I brought this comment up - and she didn't have any defense for it nor try to deny it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Am I being played like an instrument here? I don't mean that in a bad way but as I get to know her more... For example, I made the criticism of how her education is below that of others I've dated. However, her street smarts and people sense is beyond mine - and I'm a great judge of people. Of those she met, her initial impression of them was dead on as she would say "She seems like, blah, blah, blah" and dang if she is not 100% correct. She is so outgoing, warm and friendly that she made a great first impression on my friends. So my thought is, has she picked up on me and she really is just telling me what I want to hear? I think it's a good chance she has - but I still don't feel the need to distance or run. Perhaps that's because we are still only seeing each other every couple of weeks. It's also because I'm not feeling any anxiety or "bad" feelings inside. It's not like I've set out with others to distance, it just sort of happens when I feel pressured or cornered. I wonder if this relates back to me ExW???

So I've decided I will have the cruise discussion the following weekend after we both return from our trips. I'll see one of the main promoters right before so the timing is right. I again feel it as if I'm guided on auto-pilot. Until now I thought it was too soon but I know enough about her to know she will not embarrass me. She will get along great with my friends, she is very understanding and easy going about the fact that I'm working. In fact, even as we start to get to 3 months, we've still not had a disagreement or gotten into an argument with her. She's extremely honest about everything and I know that I get more upset when I'm lied to than about whatever the truth is. That might be part of why. There have been times I was turned off or put off by her but we've not like argued and certainly not had a "fight" about anything. She totally does not sweat the small stuff and has talked often about how upsetting she finds it when her friends btch and complain about their spouse or BF. She's very independent and will not take disrespect but is as sarcastic as I am and really doesn't let the small stuff get to her.

I thought for sure by now I'd be getting sick of her yet I find myself looking forward to the next time I'll see her. She even said something similar the other night - something like, "I'll bet you didn't think you'd still be hanging out with me this long." This time I could not disagree. I'm most fascinated by how all of this just came about. I didn't try to do this or that and certainly did not over-think it - at least I don't think I did. I just lived. I was just me and as I've said, acted as if almost on auto-pilot. Of course, since my last R was over 5 years ago... I guess it could be said that it's about time I date someone more than 5 times. LOL

Two in town gigs this weekend then I leave for Michigan next week Wednesday. If anything noteworthy happens I'll let you all know. Otherwise I'm just trying to keep my story going along here. Huh, I can say without any doubt that telling this story is much, much more fun than the story I was telling about 13 years ago after the bomb had been dropped on me! LOL


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
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