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#2802986 07/22/18 11:35 PM
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New thread time. Here's the last one:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2782254#Post2782254

DNJ, thank you for that. It gave me a bit to think about. I think you're right...I could shift my thoughts a little and be done with her, but I'm kidding myself if I think that would stick. I'm still back and forth and I know I will be for a little while. I'm getting better, but its a slow process. I am going to work on moving forward while standing still. Its so refreshing to chat with you guys who understand what this is like. I have family and friends that support me, but they don't really understand so there's only so much I can open up to them. Sometimes I read responses and my heart just melts and it feels like a weight is lifted as the realization hits that SOMEONE understands and has been there. Thats how I'm feeling today. Here's why...

W and I agreed to swap the kids week on week off. She moved in to a rent house about a month ago, but most of that time they have been with me. Since her moving out, my head has cleared a little and I've been able to detach a little. I didn't realize how negatively living with her in this condition was affecting me. I'm a bit of a homebody. I enjoy going out and doing stuff and having a good time, but I MOSTLY enjoy being with my family and enjoying the comfortable home that we work hard for and share. Lately, I hadn't felt comfortable coming home and didn't know what to do with myself once there. Since her moving out, I've been looking forward to coming home again. I mean I don't like the family/marital situation, but at least I can feel comfortable at home again and start to heal a little so I can start moving forward. I thought I was already, but I keep hitting points where I realize that I wasn't but maybe am now. That's happened several time, actually. That, and mostly the kids have been with me which I really enjoy. We recently started swapping them, and its been hard for me being without them. We've grown really close recently. We already were, but we've become even closer. The house is so quiet when they aren't here...

So, this weekend started with the kids leaving for her house. That and the expectation that she has a family reunion next weekend in which she will be taking them...which is a double blow for me. This will be the first family reunion that I will not be going to, and I'm pretty close with her family. That AND that means that I'll actualy be without the kids for a week and a half instead of just a week. So, again, the weekend started with W coming to pick them up. The pickup itself went ok, other than it tearing me up inside watching her drive away with them. I then went to meet her brother (we are still close...I mean I've known them all for 20 years) to go watch a band play. That was fun and helped a lot.

Today I planned on going to one of my friends bday party for his 1 year old. I have known this friend for about 18 years, so him and his wife are close family friends. We don't see them often, but we consider them close friends. So just going to this party by myself without my family was a little sad, but I decided to go anyway and try not to let being solo bug me. When I was getting ready, S called me and said he was going to play volleyball but had left his shoes at my house. He wanted to know if I'd be getting out at all and if maybe I'd meet him so he could get his shoes. Now, before I go on I should say that I have not seen Ws new place. I know the address, but I have not been there. She has not invited me and I really kind of don't want to see it. I just think not having to think about her place and having a visual of it to think about is probably for the best...one less thing to have to get over. Having said that, her place is about 2 blocks away from the bday party I'm about to go to so I offer to just deliver the shoes to her house.

I get there and decide to go ahead and go to the door. As I approach the door I realize that I am about to knock on the door to a house that my family lives in. It feels surreal. I instantly think of how W just comes in when she comes over. I have never thought anything about it as that is how it has always been...her knocking at the door would be weird. But, here I am about to knock on the door. My son answers the door and I step inside. I look around and it feels weird to see some of my furniture/decorations mixed with stuff I haven't seen in a house I've never been to...and a place where at the moment, the rest of my family is living. My son shows me his room. I look around and see all his old stuff, a few new things, and the computer I just built for him. This is MY sons room in this strange house. Then my daughter shows me hers. The feeling is the same. Apparently W is in the shower. I tell the kids I love them and will see them soon and go ahead and leave before W is out of the shower. Then on to the birthday party where I get to explain a couple of times why W and kids aren't with me to a few different people at the party who i haven't seen in a while. I don't give a lot of details other than W has moved out and the kids are with her this weekend. When they ask what happened all I can say is, not sure...she wasn't happy and said she needed to go find herself.

So the visit itself was non eventful, but now I am left with the image of my family living in a cute little house over by the local college. I swear...I'll have some days that I almost feel normal again and can't imagine wanting to go back to her. Then I have other days like today that I just want to crawl in bed and cry like a baby. I don't, but that's what I want to do. I'll be ok...think I just needed to vent a little.

Last edited by sjohns6; 07/22/18 11:41 PM.

Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
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I completely understand your heart melting and a weight being lifted. Having someone understand what you are going through, someone believe what you are going through, is so helpful. There are lots of us here, and we get it.

I am glad my words were received well. It is good that you can see your own back and forth feelings towards W. They will come in waves, lessening in frequency and amplitude as time goes on.

Boy, I could have wrote the same thing about home and family life. I am a bit of a homebody too.

My kids do not go over to OM’s house and I have full custody. So I have never experienced the swapping of kids or seeing thier second home. The way you illustrated it, so surreal. That is a lot to accept and get used to. However, think about what it meant to your son and daughter to be able to show their Dad their rooms. I am sure they were happy to share that part of their life with you.

You might even feel a bit better knowing what their rooms look like. Furnished well, toys, computer, and some familiar idems for them.

Good on you going to the Bday party. Those questions about your situation, yes I got those too. As if this can be summed up and explained in a couple of easy sentences. What you replied was fine. People, who have not experienced this, cannot and will not understand.

Hang in there sjohns6. This is a good place to vent.



I have a question.

Originally Posted by sjohns6
So, this weekend started with the kids leaving for her house. That and the expectation that she has a family reunion next weekend in which she will be taking them...which is a double blow for me. This will be the first family reunion that I will not be going to, and I'm pretty close with her family. That AND that means that I'll actualy be without the kids for a week and a half instead of just a week.


The family reunion next weekend is happening - so the expectation is that she will be going and taking them? Is that all planned out or are you thinking that is what is going to happen?


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Sjohn6

Congrats on getting a good custody arrangement

Sorry about the visit

I can only imagine how surreal that would be

And how it hurt

But like what DNJ said about how it seemed important to the kids

It may be their way of saying

Hey dad everything will be okay

We can all fake it until we make it

And yes do not allow variances to custody unless explicitly agreed upon

Great if you guys can be flexible

But that has to go both ways

And never assume


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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DnJ,

That’s probably a good way for me to look at the kids situation...happy that they are happy even when they are there. I am struggling with that. I know its right and I am trying to ACT that way. The selfish part of me would prefer that it not be good so that they want to come home and not like it there. I love my children and I know they need their mother so I am trying not to be that way. Well, I guess I mean not THINK/FEEL that way. I don’t act that way outwardly.

And to your question, the family reunion is happening. The 3 of them fly out Friday morning and don’t return until Tuesday mid day. I did not add that they will be coming home Wednesday night (of this week) to stay with me to break up the week a little. I hate having to do this with them. I mean W leaves and now I have a place I live and she has a place she lives...but the kids have to learn to live in 2 places. I hate hearing people talk about what schedule is good for the kids. None of it is good for the kids...it’s what’s better for the parents cause they miss their time with the kids and neither wants to give them up. Sometimes it seems to me that the kids are more mature than the adults.

Gordie,

I don’t actually have a custody agreement. We aren’t officially anything other than married. W moved out and we split our finances, but that’s about it. No talk of official separation or divorce. She just needed to go find herself. I have no idea what she sees as her future...if she even thinks about that. The agreement we worked out for the kids was just a verbal one...and so far they have been with me most of the time. I recognize that this leaves me vulnerable, but right now I don’t want to push for anything else. I think if I have to start setting boundaries because she is taking advantage I make look in to something more official, but so far she has been pretty fair. I am allowing the extra visitation for the family reunion thing because so far she has not seen them that much over the last month...and she agreed to let them stay on Wednesday so as not to be a week and a half straight. I feel like that is both of being flexible. I of course don’t like it, but think its fair (as fair can be in this situation anyways).

Early on, right after BD, W was still pretty nice to me and it seemed that I could tell she still loved me but was just confused. Even a year ago she was talking about maybe going to an IC and maybe getting on some AD to help with her ups and downs. That never happened but she was thinking about it which suggested she knew she had a problem. Then several months back she even initiated a R talk where she said she recognized that she had been looking at things wrong and was treating me bad and wanted to work on things. Now, only a few months later, she has moved out and barely speaks to me. She might text or call to discuss swapping the kids, but that’s it. I know it hasn’t been that long since she moved out, but she doesn’t initiate any conversations with me at all. Even if she did decide that our relationship had run its course, how could she not want to talk to me at all. I mean I don’t get the impression she is mad at me and avoiding me, it just seems like contacting me isn’t something that interests her at all. Of course that shouldn’t be surprising given that this is MLC, but it is an ongoing effort to wrap your head around this stuff. She has never even blamed me for anything. People say to listen to what they complain about and fix the things that need fixing and be the best version of yourself. Well what if they didn’t even complain about you? I didn’t give her any reason to leave. In her mind we must just not be right for each other any more and got together too young because she can’t figure out a way to be in love with me anymore. It’s madness. I still work on me for me (since I was given nothing else), but it makes it all the harder because there is absolutely no closure.

Onward and upward I guess. I think I’ll make a gumbo tonight...


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
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Love gumbo

You must be awesome if she never complains about you

Seriously I think it is safe to say

She is only thinking of one person right now and that is she

What you are thinking or feeling mean nothing to her right now

And when you think she is doing something or not doing something because of something you did

Take a deep breath and remember that it probably has nothing to do with you at all


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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I know what you mean about wanting the kids to not like it with W so they will want to spend more time with you.

I felt that too after BD when my W wanted to see her kids at OM’s house. Outwardly I acted, but inside I hurt and wanted the kids too hate it there. Well her visits didn’t last very long, and I watch the hurt in my children’s eyes as their mother didn’t want them anymore.

I got it. I found grace and forgiveness. Imagine how messed up you need to be to throw away your own children. What else can I do, but forgive. She doesn’t know it and she probably doesn’t deserve it. It doesn’t matter, forgiveness is for me. I love her enough to forgive and let her go. And hope she reaches out to her children.

Children have two parents, they love each one, and they do not want to choose. They get half of themselves from each, they know this. They do not want to dislike “half” of themselves.

You are on the right path. I see the passion when you talk about “what schedule is good for the kids”. Damn straight, none of this is good for the kids!

So you make it the best you can. You can see clearly sjohns6. Your kids are counting on you.

Keep walking the path.


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This kind of pendulum swinging is a hallmark of MLC. I remember as my H was entering the tunnel, he would still hug me sometimes or be like the old H for a few minutes. As they go deeper into the cave, they stop doing that. But now, five years in, he starts being more like H for a few minutes once in a while. It's like the same thing on the way in and on the way out of the tunnel.

That is pretty bold of me to say "on the way out" for my sitch, but hope springs eternal!

The point is that everything you are seeing sounds TOTALLY normal and by MLC standards, you just started. She has to go all the way down to the bottom of the tunnel before she turns back so you don't have to worry about how it makes no sense. It doesn't! Heartsblessing has a good article on the "first awakening," and you are not near that yet but I feel like it might help you to read it just to understand that part of things.

Also I totally agree with DnJ (as usual) about wanting my kids to not enjoy being with H. I am always longing for him to take an interest in their lives, but then when he does do something with one of them (usually D9), my kids get mean (or meaner) towards me and I turn into a jealous child.

So what I do with that is -- I forgive myself and I go to my church (when it's empty) and cry for a while and explain all of it to God and then I sit there until he gives me peace about it, and I return with the understanding that that's part of the cross I have to bear to keep standing. The kids will know the truth about both of you in the end.

Last edited by Gerda; 07/24/18 02:08 PM.

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Thank you guys for the support. Its funny that I almost have to write my situation out before I can view it from a MLC perspective. Until then its just my life, but once written down I can re-read it and am able to see all the MLC stuff glaring out at me.

Thanks Gerda, I think I've read just about all the Hearts Blessing stuff. Lots of good stuff. I think I need to re-read some of it. Its crazy how many times I might read those kinds of articles and get something new out of it each time. I am able to relate to different aspects as time goes by and my situation changes. I do realize that I must still be closer to the beginning of this, but I'm nearing the 2 year mark and that realization is such a hard one to come to. I know you are past the 5 years mark so I almost feel bad complaining about 2 years.

I believe the kids already know the important truths. They love their mother and want her to be part of their life and don't complain much, but I can tell that they view me as the stable parent. I pay attention, W does not. I actively engage, W fakes it as more of a responsibility rather than an active give and take relationship. She used to be a lot better at it of course.

Skipped making gumbo last night but got everything ready for tonight.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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W texted me yesterday telling me that both of the kids wanted to come over and stay the night. They were supposed to come over tonight to break up the Ws week and a half with them, so this would be 2 days instead. I of course said that was fine. As you can guess, I was very happy to have them come over a night early. They came home and we watched shows and laughed together. Got a pizza and just chilled out together. Both were excited that I had cleaned their rooms while they were gone. And now we have tonight too.

I can't help think about the fact that although I've had them most of the time the last 6 weeks, they have never asked to go to Ws house. Not once. They seem fine being there as in they have most of the comforts there that they have at my house (home), but they have never ASKED to go there. I also wonder about W. I of course can not mind read (nor do I want to see whats really going on up there), but she did not seem bothered at all about them wanting to come home a day early. I keep thinking that although she is a little laxed in her responsibilities as a mom, that she is still more or less keeping up mostly. Not super mom like she was, but still a good mom. The fact that the kids ask to come home and she seems fine with it seems to illustrate otherwise to me...even if at surface it all looks kind of normal. Well, as normal as you can get in this kind of situation anyways.

W looked tired when she came over. So, advice time if you don't mind. I do not initiate communication with her. Do not pursue at all. I have not initiated any R talks in months. I do, however, act nice when I see her. When she was over dropping off the kids I asked her if she wanted any pizza or a drink and was upbeat. Not overly, just in a normal way. She of course declined saying she wanted to get back and rest, but should I be doing that? I feel like I am making an offer that I would to anyone, but I would hate to think that my offer for a drink or pizza might be considered as pursuing. I am not sure it matters as I think I just want to be myself as that is what I feel comfortable with, but I also realize that I am still healing and I don't want to inadvertently get caught up in pursuit mode without realizing that's what I'm doing. Even though it is hard for me to imagine a path to reconciliation, I'd be lying to myself if I said that somewhere within me I didn't still want that. It seems like a deeply buried desire, but I know its in there. I also know I can't do anything to make it go faster, but I want to make sure I'm not prolonging it either. Mostly I am doing fine, but I still try to make sure that I handle my interactions with her the best way possible. I realize that being around her is a trigger for me so I do analyze my behavior around her.

Thank you for any thoughts you might have. I realize this is probably trivial, but still something I'm thinking about.

Last edited by sjohns6; 07/25/18 04:19 PM.

Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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sjohns6 - if you are thinking about something, it is not trivial – it is important.

You are correct that pursuing behavior and pressure can have the unwanted effect of pushing her away. Pretty cool that you are considering that you may be caught up in pursuit without realizing it.

You offered pizza as you would to anyone. No real problem there for rational people.

You stated - She of course declined. Why “of course”? Did you expect her to decline? How about “She of course accepted”. Is that not a possibility in your mind?

Expectations.

She is irrational, so it will be very hard to get a read on if she would or would not want to do something.

I think you would like to offer - being nice to her. Try to do it the least pursuing manner, letting her think it is her idea kind of a way.

Maybe something leading like:

- There is lots of pizza.

- Have you eaten yet?

It is not an actual invitation and if she wants she can ask or offer to join the family. This also gives you an out if her response is argumentative or such.

This might help with letting go of expectations. You hope she wants to join you and kids. You are just asking if she is hungry and seeing where it goes from there.

Nice to see you got two nights with yiur kids instead of one. Don’t think you expected that.


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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