3 years pieced and still a work in progress!

[ovrrnbw]

This is a heartwarming thread to read, very happy to read it!

[BluWave]

Hi everyone!

I'm going to add some thoughts I have after reading some of the threads by posters that may feel stuck at times.

Don't have anything too exciting to report. Summer is moving along. My younger Ds are busy with sports and camps. My oldest D is working and coming/going as she pleases, without helping in our home. I'm having a hard time knowing how to parent a young adult (possibly bipolar) that still acts like a younger teen at home. Sigh. Probably need to join a different group for support in that area!

We have several vacays this summer so a lot to enjoy and look forward to. H and I have been doing some house projects, which feels good. I have gone back to yoga (which I did a lot during the lowest points in my sitch) and so that feels like a move towards healing for me. I'm going to train for a half marathon this fall and so I'm excited about that. Mostly I am trying to check my attitude about day to day things, as I do think we can change the outcome of life as we change our views. We all get so stuck in our thinking and it can be hard to be truly open minded. I had to get out of the crisis part of my sitch to develop this way of thinking, and I believe I am on my way.

I was hesitant to return to yoga in the last couple years because I was worried it would be a trigger and bring up old feelings. I chose to change my perspective and it worked. I am seeing it for all of the postive that it provided and so far it feels great. I realize I have a choice in how I "feel" about things, which is influenced by the part I focus on, the words I use to describe it and letting go of fears. I feel like all of the posters here could benefit from getting this power back. I certainly think my sitch would have been less painful if I was more open minded whike I experienced it. I let my fear get in the way every time.


So I wanted to share a couple things that might have helped me feel less stuck. These are just a couple and I will add to it as I think of them.

1. The words we use to describe our sitch molds the way we think and thus feel about it. I think its important to select words that reflect an attitude of strength and growth. Words like "never" and "always" keep us stuck in absolute thinking and don't create space for improvement. Think about your word choices and frame them in a way that allows for change. Some posters write in a way that is convincing or persuasive and I would challenge you to stop doing that because you are closing yourself off to support and advice that could help you.

2. Trust the advice here and from the people that care about you. It may not feel intuitive, but when you are hurting and scared, you are acting based on emotions and that rarely goes well. Try and separate how you feel from what you do. It's okay to feel hurt, angry and desperate, but not act in a way that reflects that. It has taken me a long time but I try and separate those things in all of my Rs. We can feel dissapointed in someone and still behave in a way that is respectful, but also not allow them to take advantage of us (being too nice or spineless). It can be a fine line to walk, however the more you make your actions based on rational logic and not emotions, chances are you will feel better about it later.

3. Do not measure success based on other people and external factors. Also, success, and whatever that may mean for you, can usually only be measured over time and not on the day to day results. Success is not getting your S back, them responding how you want them to, or moving closer towards R. I know that doesn't resonate with people, but it's the simple truth. Success is the ability to make positive changes within ourselves, detachment from those things and people that harm us, and over time creating more healthy Rs with people that deserve us. For some of us our own success might lead to R, however for most it will not.

This is okay because success is not getting a person back that doesn't value you, respect themself or want to be M to you. You don't actually want your S as they are, even if you can't detach from them! You want someone that wants you, respects you, and is willing to be accountable for their mistakes and will make positive changes. Just chew on that for a few minutes.

You have complete control over your success. Allow yourself to bring in small changes, even with the words you choose and where you put your thoughts and focus. Change the way you think, process and write here. Take the advice here and apply it. Over time, you will have success I promise!


Just my thoughts for today.
Blu

[LoneWlf]

Well said Blu!!- where can I sign up for your next posting? We all need more of this!! Thanks you!

[AnotherStander]

Great post Blu! Glad to hear things are going well!

[BluWave]

Thanks, guys. Much appreciated. I'll keep posting random nuggets as I think of them.

So I was hanging out with my BFF yesterday, just chatting by the pool for hours. She has been uncoupling from her long term partner for the last two years and he still can't accept it. She mostly called it off two years ago when her son moved out, and so she sold her house and then moved into a very small cottage for one. He has continued to pursue her for the last two years. She doesn't invest in their R or initiate contact ever, however she is friendly and reciprocates friendship when he calls or (rarely) visits. He doesn't get it and still lives in denial. It's very sad.

One of the things she said to me is that "he doesn't actually want me, or really love me, he's just attached to the idea of me." You see, she is right. He remains attached to her even though she invests nothing or gives little in return. This makes him, and any friendship, less desirable for her. He is not able to move on with his life and create new Rs, friendships and hobbies. Even when they have hung out, he doesn't bring much to the conversation. She doesn't share much of herself or what she is up to with him either.

So why does he remain so attached to her? .... can any of you that have been at this for awhile think about this question? If someone is pulling away or breaking it off, and you remain attached, then that person naturally will lose respect for you. It demonstrates a low self worth to want someone that doesn't want you. People with high self esteem know their worth and only what to be with someone that also desires them. He is becoming pathetic in her eyes and she is losing the ability to even maintain a friendship, however she also feels sorry for him.

After BD, our self esteem is thrown in the gutter. I want you guys to realize that your strong attachment for your partner (who is actively rejecting you) is not rational. It's based on fear of the unknown and you are seeking self worth, not love. Even though their actions might have caused this damage, only you can repair it! Getting them back will not. Following Sandi's rules, doing the 180s and GAL like crazy, is the way towards that. Hold your head up high around your S and take your power back.

I have known my BFF since childhood and her EX since she met him 18 years ago. There are several things about him and their R that didn't work for her. I do still think if he were able to do the things here and follow the advice here, she would give him another chance. She cares about him and they have so much shared history. But he is unable, or unwilling, to detach from her and really make positive changes in his life. He can't get on his own two feet and create a better life for himself. He is waiting for her and even though he pretends he is moving on, it's so obvious he's not.

Blu

[Maika]

I 100% agree with what you said Blu. I just heard a podcast with this researcher called Guy Winch as a guest on it. He explained that research has shown that what the LBS is feeling after BD is akin to withdrawal from drugs in the brain. Same chemicals are activated. But, pursuing is like taking that hit again to feel better, but it doesn't work. The LBS has to move forward and stop pursuing, and putting their life back together as a full person.

I posted this on Orange's thread, but I'll do it here as well as you brought up self-esteem. I have been struggling with this for a while and my negative self-perceptions are rooted in more traumatic experiences, and not just BD. A lot of the self-esteem stuff talks about engaging in action and having grit and 'just doing it' and pushing through the pain etc. I don't disagree with that advice, but I think that only works if a person has some healthy accurate perceptions about themselves. For me, positive affirmations and all of that didn't work. And I realized that for me to put stuff into 'action' to improve my self-esteem, I needed to first root out the causes of my negative self-perceptions and truly understand my strengths and starting to trust them.

I am in the process of doing that, and I have the help of a great IC as well. What I found is that before you can take action towards improving your self-esteem, you really need to understand what's important to you and why. I found that action for the sake of action wasn't getting me there. Making huge plans wasn't getting me there. I wasn't following through on them as I wanted to. And when that happens, it's easy to spiral into blaming yourself and having negative self-talk. And I didn't understand why I was failing even though I had great plans and processes set out. It wasn't a lack of motivation, but a lack of clarity on the 'why'.

The other main thing I found for myself is how I understood my goals. What I realized is that I was subconsciously framing my goals like this - If I achieve (X), then I will be happy. To give a concrete example - If I lose weight and get my muscle definition back, then I will be happy about how I look and will feel comfortable going out in the dating world. What I realized was that I was deferring my happiness and self-worth on something in the future. And that the only purpose for my working out was so that I could swoon some ladies with my good muscular looks (i know it takes more than that). So when I realized that I was deferring my happiness on a variable like that, I changed up. Instead, I started telling myself that my goal is to workout because I enjoy being physically active and want to be a healthy person. With the way I had my goal set up, I was also activating a part of myself that is afraid of success. I have always been comfortable living in the 'failure' zone so I could victimize myself and come up with a hundred excuses why things are the way they are.

I hope this all makes sense. One of the best articles I've read about this that cuts through the conventional nonsense is by Kris Gage called 'how to build your self-esteem'. Just search for it and you will find it. I mean not just you, but people who are reading here. I have some minor disagreements with it, but I think overall it's a great blueprint to start working on your self-esteem and self-worth.

[NicoleR]

Interesting conversation here. I do wonder if there's anyone who has been able to instantly detach and perfectly follow all of the DB rules? It seems to be a process and during that time then sure, the one who walks away will lose respect for their left behind spouse because they no longer want to be bothered, but the one who is left behind is struggling to make sense of it all. DB does provide a good clear roadmap towards becoming a person that could re-attract the one who walks away, but just like everything it takes time and practice.

My self-esteem is also lower now than it used to be. I feel confident about who I am as a person, about my skills, about being a parent, and about my career but now suddenly I turned 40, I have a young child, and I haven't even remotely tried socializing with single men in over a decade (and never dated back in my teens or 20's). I have a lot more physical flaws now than before I met my husband. I'm under-weight, have lines around my eyes, imperfection on my nose, dry skin, mild eczema etc... I live in an area where most people are wealthy, successful, and attractive so all around are people who are physically perfect looking. It's hard to believe that someone who I believe is attractive (and my husband is really attractive) will be attracted to me now. I do feel sad about that. I dress conservatively and don't exactly advertise myself in a way that would gauge men's interest especially given my daughter is usually the first person anyone will notice. I don't really know what the solution is. I wish maybe one day down-the-road I'd be surprise just meet someone out-of-the-blue where there'd be mutual chemistry. Otherwise I try to remember that someday, when I die, few will judge me based on makeup or plastic surgery or skimpy clothing but rather by who I was as a person and what I contributed to others' lives. I try to remember that I want to be a good role model for my daughter and be respectful to myself and I probably have no choice but to accept my physical flaws unless I want to do a lot of plastic surgery and cosmetic procedures. It is hard though when I see pictures of the women my husband has dated during the times we've been separated which were all too easy to find. He goes for the perfect model porn-star type and I'm just not that.

[joejoe1]

Nicole,

The way you think of yourself is they way the world sees you. If you think you are not attractive why would your husband or anyone else think you are attractive.

Carry yourself with confidence. Your husband was attracted to you for a reason. If he's chasing beauty he will soon be bored, because beauty becomes boring real quick.

How about you start getting dressed up. I have seen and worked with a lot of respectable women, that gets dressed nice , smell good and carry themselves with confident and they were all shape and sizes. And had very attractive personalities. They just make you want to be around them.

I'm here to scream out loud that confidence is super attractive. Being around a women thats is attractive physically but has low self esteem is a huge turn off.

Nicole, become attractive, in confidence and your physical looks will follow.

[arsh18]

Thanks Blu! This is extremely helpful as you are speaking from the other end of the tunnel where we all want to me. As I have mentioned before, the board is full of WWs and WAWs but fewer WAHs. So as a LBwife it is sometimes hard to come by advice that could transcend gender. I hope at some point you get to read my sitch and guide me. I dont remember if you were actually D or just S before R, but I had a few questions
- Other than missing the family and having the guilt about children, what brought him back?
- What did he miss in you as a spouse/as a partner that gave him second thoughts?
- I know you really need to drop the rope and move on, but what actually made him feel that you had moved on? No contact, LRT?
- Did you have any family together time with children and H at all while separated or did you do your own things with the kids?
- The biggest thing for the WAS to come back some day would be the guilt and fear of rejection by LBS, what do you think helped in your sitch? How was your behavior towards him that gave him the courage to even consider letting you know he wants to try R?
Thank you for taking the time to guide us all who are still burning in these fires.

[BluWave]

Thank you for weighing in, everyone!

Maika, you bring up some excellent points. It has been said here before that we may need to "fake it until we make it." I know for me, this did not work out so well, and I blew it often and would slip back into pursuing or lashing out behaviors. Then even when I tried to follow the rules, I would end up ignoring/stone-walling him and then bounce right back over to a more emotional reaction. I struggled a lot with detachment and the "friendly neighbor" approach! So I think you are correct that only following rules/180s/GAL is not enough in itself. I think that for any of us that are experiencing trauma or pain, we need to address that too. I think some type of counseling or therapy is a must. I went to IC, read here, did yoga, spent a lot of quality time with friends/family, GAL, and it still didn't feel like enough. My anxiety and depression was crippling at times. I will say tho, that the times I allowed myself to make more rational choices and respond from that place, and really tried to separate out my emotions/feelings, the better I felt about those interactions and decisions afterwards. The more I was able to do that, the more self confidence I gained. Slowly over time, I began to feel that I was getting better at DBing and was consequently feeling better about myself too.

I want to read what you suggested. ... My position on goals is similar to my views on success. They have to be something that is under your control and something that is measurable. We cannot base goals and success on external factors or on the actions of other people. We have no control over that. This just further diminishes our power. I have some goals for myself that involve exercise and the way I communicate. Those are things that I can control and I feel good about both when I meet these goals. They have health benefits and social/emotional benefits.

Nicole, I am glad you weighed in here. You are actually one of the posters that I follow and one of the reasons that I posted the other day. Maybe I should respond to you further about that in your thread? You are in a hard spot and I feel for you. You also read like a very intelligent and caring person. One thing that I often notice about your posts is that you word things in a way that might keep you stuck and is also closed off to changing your perspective. For example, you will write out "my husband" over and over again. He may be your husband on paper, but he has been a selfish and negligent partner and father for many years. I think it's time to call him WAH or STBXH, or anything that better defines the reality. I have also noticed that you focus in on things that keep you stuck; ie, that there are no other single parents or only happy families where you live. I don't buy into that for a minute! I feel strongly that you are keeping yourself stuck. Perhaps that is the fear talking? And yes, it takes time, but we all have to start somewhere. Can you make small changes in the words you choose?

I agree with joejoe all the way! Nicole, carry yourself with confidence, even when you may not feel up to it! Use words that allow you to start accepting that your M is over AND also words that demonstrate that you deserve better! You do! You are codependent with a man that is toxic for you. Perhaps it is hard for you to see because you are in it? There are so many single parents out there that have overcome hardships, that have some financial struggles, and that fear they will not find someone that will love them and their child again or as much as the Ex did (at some point in the past). It is simply not true! We keep ourself stuck when we think/talk/write in a way that exudes hopelessness. Then we become shut off to support, help and change.

I just want to share something about myself too. I was a single mom at 21, left a bad R with a HS BF, had no money, and found a tiny apartment I couldn't afford. My Ex-BF was mentally ill, and so he not only didn't help us out, but he made my life harder and also stalked me. I was determined to finish college and create a better life for me and my daughter. I took out as much fin aid and loans as possible, found subsidized daycare for her, took as many classes as I could to move it along, and I gathered any and all support and resources that I could. Life was so, so HARD. It was my mindset and determination that got me through. Now, I did gain some PTSD that I think made my more recent BD harder to cope with, but I was still able to fight my way through it. Now looking back, I can see how terribly unhealthy my R was with this Ex, even though I was afraid and things felt hopeless at times. Step #1: let go of holding on to toxic people.

Now I am 40 and hopefully wiser. Yes, my H did pull his head out of his arse and we did R. We prolly even look like one of those happy families; nice house, 3 kids, blah, blah, etc. But I will tell you what! I am stronger now and it is not because of him and him being here. If he leaves tomorrow, or if I leave today, I know I will be juat fine. The tools are in us all, we just have to find them and use them!


Ok, this is getting off topic and long winded. I gotta run, but I will post more later! Arsh, I will get back to you, I promise!

Blu